Murder Slam?

[SuperPookum]

This may have been a bit of a fluke, but I might as well leave that to the speculation and expirimentation of fellow brawlers.

In a Marth vs. Ganondorf (who was played by me) with a friend of mine, I used the hop into Murder Choke while he was positioned near the edge of Final Destination. Upon doing this, Ganon slammed Marth down into oblivion, while still being positioned on the stage.

We tried to recreate this powerful (and pretty **** cool) trick again, and though there were much more failed attempts then successful, we still couldn't get it down.

Several things were discovered.

First off, Ganondorf can get a considerable amount of foward distance right after the grab. This allowed for less precision on where to be positioned.

Secondly, this move presents the chance for an easy (and quite embarressing) SD. This was remedied with the influence of some DI, but its still easy to SD if you don't allow yourself enough distance between yourself and the edge of the stage.

Lastly, while most of the attempts in recreating (only two successes) didn't work, the vast majority of the unsuccesful attempts resulted in the opposing character hanging from the ledge. Against certain characters, could this maybe lead into a chance for an easy dair or fair?

As Sliq has titled many of GDorf's moveset "Murder ____", I think perhaps this deserves the title of Murder Slam if it proves useful in the metagame.

 

[CluelessBTD]

Are you sure you didn't actually jump in the air first?
I insist on using technical terms...no Murder prefixes for me :D. Did you make a new account just to post this? WHY?!

 

[Magus-Cie]

Sorry Clueless, but murder sounds better than the real names. I mean come on...nothing beats the "Crazy *** Flying Murder Choke"

 

[SuperPookum]

Are you sure you didn't actually jump in the air first?
I insist on using technical terms...no Murder prefixes for me :D. Did you make a new account just to post this? WHY?!

I did a hop into side b, meaning yes, I pressed Y then >b.

 

[SuperPookum]

Sorry Clueless, but murder sounds better than the real names. I mean come on...nothing beats the "Crazy *** Flying Murder Choke"

Is that the already existing name for it or just the side b in general.

ANd while you are correct, nothing beats the word "Fudruckers". No other word so readily comes to mind that is as deliciously naughty sounding as "Fudruckers".

 

[HeoandReo]

I've done something more than once at the ledge where Ganon's Flame Choke animation continues for the same amount of time when unsweetspotted on the edge, leading to a Ganoncide when an opponent came near. I've also successfully pulled off a Ganoncide when the opponent was very slightly away from the edge, so I think that Ganon can also move himself backwards a fair amount with an aerial Flame Choke.

Not sure if this type of thing is what you're talking about, but Ganoncides are Ganoncides, after all.

 

[SuperPookum]

I've done something more than once at the ledge where Ganon's Flame Choke animation continues for the same amount of time when unsweetspotted on the edge, leading to a Ganoncide when an opponent came near. I've also successfully pulled off a Ganoncide when the opponent was very slightly away from the edge, so I think that Ganon can also move himself backwards a fair amount with an aerial Flame Choke.

Not sure if this type of thing is what you're talking about, but Ganoncides are Ganoncides, after all.

This wasn't done when recovering, this was done while both characters were initially on the stage.

 

[CluelessBTD]

This wasn't done when recovering, this was done while both characters were initially on the stage.

Technically, if you hopped then Ganon wasn't on the stage. He was aerial. The sideB is a spike when done in the air, and if you do it right on the edge in the perfect position, the opponent will continue to be spiked while Ganon stays on the edge of the stage. Pure awesome.

By the way, it is called the Flame Choke originally. Not saying that you can't call it the murder choke if you want, but I will continue to call it the flame choke.

 

[Shamoo]

It's too risky.

 

[:034:]

Sorry Clueless, but murder sounds better than the real names. I mean come on...nothing beats the "Crazy *** Flying Murder Choke"

Spoiler

10murderprefixes

 

[WastingPenguins]

Technically, if you hopped then Ganon wasn't on the stage. He was aerial. The sideB is a spike when done in the air, and if you do it right on the edge in the perfect position, the opponent will continue to be spiked while Ganon stays on the edge of the stage. Pure awesome.

I'm 99.999% sure that your opponent will just auto-grab the edge, actually. Which would explain why the OP couldn't recreate it and most of the time his opponent just grabbed the edge.

Anyway here what's happened: your friend was holding down on the control stick, causing him to pass by the edge without grabbing it. Simple.

 

[QKiwi]

I'm fairly lurky so my post count is awesome xP Anywho, I just figured it may or may not be useful to know I managed to do this once yesterday twice, both times it was my friends second ice climber while they were trying to recover, jumped and flame choked her out of the sky before landing safely on the ledge. Maybe it's easier to pull of if they're areal too?

 

[SuperPookum]

I'm 99.999% sure that your opponent will just auto-grab the edge, actually. Which would explain why the OP couldn't recreate it and most of the time his opponent just grabbed the edge.

Anyway here what's happened: your friend was holding down on the control stick, causing him to pass by the edge without grabbing it. Simple.

Ok, that sounds like the most probable case; but even then, do you think itd be possible to force someone onto the ledge and then transition into a short hopped dair? I didn't try this, so this is why I'm asking.

 

[PukeTShirt]

i would assume the lag after the murder slam would be too great to follow up with a dair. The opponent will also have invincibility frames right after grabbing the edge. Not too likely i would say, but man, that would be sweet if its possible to do. IM "working" right now, so i cant test it

 

[SuperPookum]

what about a followup with a down tilt to kick them off the ledge, followed by a dair? His down tilt can kick them off the ledge right?

 

[Koskinator]

Down tilt has more vertical knockback

 

[SuperPookum]

What I'm getting at is: Can this trick be incorporated into his metagame or is it just a neat trick that serves no real benefit in tournament play? Can a combo be made after slamming them down causing them to hang on the ledge?

 

[Blad01]

Hum not really. It just put you in a (difficlut) edguard position. But they have thier invicibility frames when they hang the ledge.

 

[acdizzy]

Not sure if this is what you're talking about and I really apologize if it isn't but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tSKoLf8XH8

Ganon's 2nd and 3rd Stock (Both resulted in SD's) ended up with Marth & Ganon going through the stage and falling to their death.

Once again, I'm sorry if this is completly wrong but I figured I'd try ^^.

 

[theEffinBear]

acdizzy, I think those are just regular Murdercides. This "murder slam" sounds to me like something more along the lines of this (from the OP of The Greatest Thing I've Ever Done):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_iEqG0WK4Y

Losers bracket finals, start around 1:09 and watch for 15 seconds

LeeHarris's version of this happened when setting up a Murdercide but the Support Ghost happened to save him, so there was no ledge for the Snake to grab. As yours started onstage, I'm inclined to agree with WastingPenguins, that your opponent happened to be holding the stick down while passing the ledge.

I've also tried this on a created stage to test it: set up a large pass-through (and so ledge-less) platform way up high, do the Choke such that your target falls past the edge of the platform, and then see how far they fall before they can jump. I found the answer was "almost no distance" -- though that may have been at 0% (but if LeeHarris's video is any judge, higher percentage probably doesn't change anything).

/RtEB

 

[Sliq]

This trick will be very useful on stages that don't have edges, but other than that, they will grab the ledge.

 

[Big Red]

Maybe yell "I'm gonna thunderstomp you!!!" When you are about to murder choke them so that they DI down.