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MultiVersus General Discussion

Opossum

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It's really apparent (and has been for quite a while now) that the public's perception of the game is like, irreparably damaged. No single addition or fix will bring in a substantial amount of new players. The team's best bet at this point would be to try everything they can to maintain the small player base they have left...which runs completely counter to their predatory monetization system and killer character grind.

Genuinely I think the last time I saw anything from this game get a positive public reaction was the season two EVO trailer that revealed Samurai Jack and Betelgeuse, which genuinely got the crowd there pretty excited. Literally everything since then has been tainted with at least some form of controversy...well, honestly it was tainted by controversy even back at the season one launch, but the EVO trailer at least made it seem like they could turn things around, as brief as that was.
 

Capybara Gaming

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It's really apparent (and has been for quite a while now) that the public's perception of the game is like, irreparably damaged. No single addition or fix will bring in a substantial amount of new players. The team's best bet at this point would be to try everything they can to maintain the small player base they have left...which runs completely counter to their predatory monetization system and killer character grind.

Genuinely I think the last time I saw anything from this game get a positive public reaction was the season two EVO trailer that revealed Samurai Jack and Betelgeuse, which genuinely got the crowd there pretty excited. Literally everything since then has been tainted with at least some form of controversy...well, honestly it was tainted by controversy even back at the season one launch, but the EVO trailer at least made it seem like they could turn things around, as brief as that was.
I mean, Raven brought in a LOT of people to play... The issue was that in order to get her you either had to cough up money now or grind like you've never grinded before to get her. I think there is one thing they could do to bring in people... But it's something they'd never do. Which is to make the full cast free to play. No early unlocks, just make them free. With all that content available, players will flock in and if they find a character they jive with they are more likely to buy skins for them. But I think that ship has long sailed.
 

ivanlerma

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Skipped to a random point and he's trying to "both sides" the 'woke debate', which seems a lot more damning than just not liking MultiVersus.
i don't get what you mean by 'he's trying to "both sides" the 'woke debate' as it's confusing me.

Plus, there are more stuff in there besides talking about the "Woke" stuff some of you seem to not wanna get into.
 

Faso115

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Event seems to be working for me now. Glad that was fixed (or maybe accidentally delayed by a day, knowing this devs that's probably what happened)
 

Capybara Gaming

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well I imagine he's saying that people who want to marginalize minorities have a point
That's not what he's saying. His argument boils down to "I'm sick of both sides throwing hissy fits at each other about everything and just want people to talk about the games on their own merit instead of using them to push their own beliefs on people because it's not the appropriate forum for many of these discussions."
 
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fogbadge

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That's not what he's saying. His argument boils down to "I'm sick of both sides throwing hissy fits at each other about everything and just want people to talk about the games on their own merit instead of using them to push their own beliefs on people because it's not the appropriate forum for many of these discussions."
sure sure. a discussion about the nuisances of representation is not a discussion that should really be had in regards to this. but representation is an important topic
 

Capybara Gaming

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sure sure. a discussion about the nuisances of representation is not a discussion that should really be had in regards to this. but representation is an important topic
Absolutely it is an important topic (one that is best not started in this particular thread), I'm just trying to explain that no, the dude isn't that kind of person. He does not believe that people who marginalize minorities have a point. I just want to dissuade that idea before it spirals into a false narrative and slander about someone because that's how hate bandwagons start - not saying that anyone here would but other people who are just reading the thread could take it incorrectly.
 
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LimeTH

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Aisul posted again

View attachment 397408

Wabbit Woods seems to be one of the stages that are going to be featured in Season 5. Daffy stonks are definitely rising
I hope that's true because then that's the fourth season in a row where one or more of the characters is on my most wanted wishlist.

If nothing else, this game is delivering on characters for me very well.
 

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Aisul posted again

View attachment 397408

Wabbit Woods seems to be one of the stages that are going to be featured in Season 5. Daffy stonks are definitely rising
Papagenos posted a picture of Yoda in response.

At first people thought it meant the Witch because Frank Oz played Yoda. However, he posted it as a hint towards another character. The context?

Weird Al made a song called Yoda, which is a parody of a song called Lola
 
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Faso115

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Papagenos posted a picture of Yoda in response.

At first people thought it meant the Witch because Frank Oz played Yoda. However, he posted it as a hint towards another character. The context?

Weird Al made a song called Yoda, which is a parody of a song called Lola
Aaaaaaaaaaaaand boom

1735949984257.png
 

LimeTH

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Aaaaaaaaaaaaand boom

Well. Damn. Can't say any of us saw that coming.

So... how's this gonna work with LeBron already being the Basketball Character? I've always said that due to the issues that could surround having a real life person in the roster, LeBron's moveset should have gone to the character actually created for the purpose of playing basketball. Is she going to be a lighter semi-clone or did they figure out a way to have two basketball themed movesets?
Unless it's Looney Tunes Show Lola or something but I kinda doubt they'd go that route for some reason.


Also drat, more time to have to wait for Daffy
 
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LimeTH

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Thinking on it, since this is going to be the first month since relaunch that we don't get a new character due to the delay, maybe Season 5 will be the one with 3 characters to make up the difference? Could we be getting Aquaman, Lola AND Daffy?

Also people on twitter thinking Lola would be a clone of Bugs are so funny. Like guys, you know these aren't video game characters right? We've been through this already with NASB.
 
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I'm still allowing for plausible deniability, but if this leak is true, it might be the first time in a while MultiVersus accurately matched a character and stage together post-launch. That surprises me, given their track record.
 

Capybara Gaming

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I'm not against Lola's inclusion in theory but I already don't like Lebron's moveset and I really don't know how you could differentiate her a huge amount from him. I'd rather her have been in rather than him in the beginning.
 

LimeTH

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Im sorry but why the negative reception? Wasn't this character super requested? I swear every wishlish i've seen had them in like the Top 10 everytime
Frankly, every character is met with such vitriolic reception that I have no idea who anybody wants anymore.
I've seen people get angry at the prospect of Daffy and he's probably the highest requested character right now.
 

MBRedboy31

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I’m just kinda confused. (But as always for every character pick, I’m interested to see what they have in mind for the moveset.)
 

CapitaineCrash

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If Season 5 is Aquaman and Lola , as much as those two make sense, I'd argue it's the weakest season so far in my opinion. Sure Nubia was the weakest pick, but at least she was paired with PPG. Those two just do nothing for me, but as always I'm curious to see the moveset because to be fair that's really the strong point of the game, the moveset rarely disappoint imo.
 

Opossum

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I've been seeing some absolutely wild takes since the Lola news dropped. Some people straight up saying that Jack, Jason, and the Powerpuff Girls have been the only good additions since relaunch and stuff like that. Like even as someone who likes Nubia as an addition, I can get why she'd be controversial, but seeing people say characters like Betelgeuse were bad additions or even clones (when literally the only thing Betelgeuse shares with another character is his running animation matching Joker's) is just...do these people even play the game they're complaining about?

Maybe it's because the game drove so many people away that only these types are left. Oof.

Regardless, I'll admit Lola is a character I'm...apprehensive about. She's far from my preferred Looney Tunes addition, but she'll be fine by me if she's based on her Looney Tunes Show self. I'm not at all a fan of the Space Jam version tbh.
 

Faso115

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Honestly my biggest gripe with this complaint is that she's a nobody. BRO i've seen her in numerous wishlish and i was under the impression she was like equal to Daffy in the most wanted from looney tunes, or at least top 3 (behind Daffy and Will e Coyote)
 

Opossum

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Frankly I’m just glad we’re getting new characters at all.

Preemptively, I better not hear a single one of you complain about “too many female characters in a row” regarding this. I expect that **** from Xitter and Reddit but you guys are better than that.
I swear people forget how male-heavy the base roster was. Five female characters on a roster of 23 during the beta btw.
 

Geoffrey Druyts

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Really wished they'd release Daffy instead of Lola. Like, Lola has always been a "whatever" Looney Tunes character for me so seeing her get in before characters like Daffy or Wile is kinda lame.
 

Kirbeh

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Also people on twitter thinking Lola would be a clone of Bugs are so funny. Like guys, you know these aren't video game characters right? We've been through this already with NASB.
I think it's silly to automatically assume characters will be clones but I don't follow the logic on the second half of this statement.

Source material doesn't preclude them from being clones either. I don't see how not originally being from a video game makes them exempt from the circumstances/design decisions that create clone characters in the first place.

While I don't think it's the case in MVS, under different circumstances, I could see Lola being a reasonable choice for a Bugs clone if they needed some roster padding.

As for Lola herself, I'm surprised but it'll be a welcome one if true. If she looks fun, I might jump back into MVS to at least try her out.

I'm most curious to see exactly how they choose to interpret her though. Classic Space Jam Lola? Looney Tunes show Lola? Something in between?
 
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LimeTH

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I think it's silly to automatically assume characters will be clones but I don't follow the logic on the second half of this statement.

Source material doesn't preclude them from being clones either. I don't see how not originally being from a video game makes them exempt from the circumstances/design decisions that create clone characters in the first place.

While I don't think it's the case in MVS, under different circumstances, I could see Lola being a reasonable choice for a Bugs clone if they needed some roster padding.
Because by nature, cartoon characters are created to be more unique and divergent from each other, while due to gameplay and genre styles, many video game characters are very similar to each other. Because of this, cartoon characters in platform fighters are built around their personalities and references to the source material, while video game characters are primarily built around capturing the feel of the source material’s gameplay.

Luigi being a clone of Mario in Smash made sense because that’s literally how he started. Pichu having the same abilities as Pikachu makes sense because Pichu is a lower tier of Pikachu. Isabelle is a semi clone of Villager because both are based around actions that can be performed In Animal Crossing. The main reason people say Shadow would hypothetically be a clone of Sonic is because historically they’ve had identical gameplay mechanics.

The problem is people try to attach this logic to an entirely different medium. In their minds, Lola would be a clone of Bugs literally only because they’re both rabbits. They’re trying to apply Mario/Luigi or Sonic/Shadow logic to characters it just does not apply to. This was always my argument with how NASB2 discussion treated the Angry Beavers. There’s two Beavers, so they’d either be identical clones or an Ice Climbers style character.

The insane thing about Lola is she is one of the very few characters that CAN be made into a moveset clone, but of LeBron James, because Lola’s whole gimmick is that she’s a basketball player. But that’s not what people are seeing. They’re seeing another rabbit equals Bugs Bunny clone despite no version of Lola ever getting into the kind of slapstick antics Bugs’ moveset is based around. It’s that video game character logic.
 

Kirbeh

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Because by nature, cartoon characters are created to be more unique and divergent from each other, while due to gameplay and genre styles, many video game characters are very similar to each other. Because of this, cartoon characters in platform fighters are built around their personalities and references to the source material, while video game characters are primarily built around capturing the feel of the source material’s gameplay.

Luigi being a clone of Mario in Smash made sense because that’s literally how he started. Pichu having the same abilities as Pikachu makes sense because Pichu is a lower tier of Pikachu. Isabelle is a semi clone of Villager because both are based around actions that can be performed In Animal Crossing. The main reason people say Shadow would hypothetically be a clone of Sonic is because historically they’ve had identical gameplay mechanics.

The problem is people try to attach this logic to an entirely different medium. In their minds, Lola would be a clone of Bugs literally only because they’re both rabbits. They’re trying to apply Mario/Luigi or Sonic/Shadow logic to characters it just does not apply to. This was always my argument with how NASB2 discussion treated the Angry Beavers. There’s two Beavers, so they’d either be identical clones or an Ice Climbers style character.

The insane thing about Lola is she is one of the very few characters that CAN be made into a moveset clone, but of LeBron James, because Lola’s whole gimmick is that she’s a basketball player. But that’s not what people are seeing. They’re seeing another rabbit equals Bugs Bunny clone despite no version of Lola ever getting into the kind of slapstick antics Bugs’ moveset is based around. It’s that video game character logic.
I understand the flaw in the logic of "bunny from Looney Tunes = must be a Bugs clone." I agree that that's silly, I said exactly that in my first reply after all.

I still don't follow the logic on the "video game characters are inherently less unique" deal though. I feel like you're being dismissive of that medium for the sake of your argument.

In addition, while again, I think it's flawed to automatically assume a character like Lola (or any character really) should be a clone, any character, regardless of medium aren't precluded from this.

Even looking at characters like Luigi and Shadow who are deliberately similar in their source material or even clones/echoes in Smash itself like Roy/Chrom, etc. you can make the same argument in either direction. From the onset, you could say Roy had no business being a Marth clone or Chrom one of Roy. You could argue that Daisy, Dark Samus, Richter, etc. could have all had completely unique move sets of their own. And they could have. After all, there are many unique traits and abilities ignored in service of making them into clones and for any gaps it's not like we don't have mostly or completely made-up kits for characters like Fox or Captain Falcon.

All that is true, but they're still clones anyway. Not because they can't be unique, but because they could reasonably be made less so. Clones exist to squeeze a little more out of the assets you've already got without spending too much more time or additional resources. When cloning enters the equation, source accuracy loses some of its priority.

Characters who you might not think of as potential clones might be seen differently in the eyes of a developer. In a scenario where they're looking to get that extra squeeze you may wind up with situations that feel off to you (Falcondorf back in Melee for example, was that for a lot of people and still is to this day). It's just a matter of if the circumstances align.

Taking a look at cartoons and comics now, you'll see plenty of examples of "derivative" or "samey" characters and ideas just as often as you would in games. And again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing either, just pointing out that this lack of "uniqueness" isn't unique to video games.

You don't need to look hard; Hawkeye and Green Arrow, Superman/Omniman/Homelander, the many Hanna-Barbera Mystery Inc. clones etc.

I'll even include Wile E. as a candidate for a Bugs clone/semi-clone here as an example. Do I think he should be? No, of course not, but under the circumstances of "we need a Bugs clone (and Lola is off the table for whatever reason,)" you can make it work. Close enough body structure. Close enough cartoon antics. He's absolutely not as suitable for this role, but with some creativity and creative liberty (and probably some necessary changes hence the semi and not full-on clone) a dev looking for an extra character to squeeze could make do with something like that.

Going back to Lola, she could absolutely be unique, but they could also take the clone route just as easily if they felt so inclined. And not just as a LeBron clone either, I think a Bugs clone would be the more obvious path of least resistance. Particularly if they go with the LTS version. Much closer body structure and a much zanier personality that would feel at right at home doing a lot of Bug's classic Looney Tunes antics.

Overall, I do agree that making that automatic assumption and holding it up as the only option is flawed, but to say that the logic can't or shouldn't be applied is also flawed. All fictional characters regardless of medium/origin are malleable and open to new interpretations when in the hands of different artists/devs. Mileage will vary depending on what/how much you change (especially with more well-established characters,) but there's always multiple routes to be taken.

That did wind up being a bit long, sorry for the text wall.
 

Swamp Sensei

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The reactions of some fans towards certain character choices is frustrating.

Maybe it's bias speaking but it feels like the Smash fanbase hasn't been quite this picky about character choices in decades.
 

Kirbeh

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The reactions of some fans towards certain character choices is frustrating.

Maybe it's bias speaking but it feels like the Smash fanbase hasn't been quite this picky about character choices in decades.
I think a large part of that is a disconnect in the audience for MVS. The sheer amount of properties under WBs belt can cast a much wider net but that also means there'll be more cases where there's little overlap in interests.

Even in this thread you have a few instances of, "I hope they stop adding CN/DC", "why aren't there more Looney Tunes characters yet", where are the film characters," "there should be more Hanna Barbera", etc.

A majority of the additions so far have been DC/CN so far to be fair but it's also not even a year old yet. Plus, those two umbrellas have some of the most popular franchises.

Over time you'd expect to see more variety and they'd eventually hit the long time requests. But I think the perception that the game is on its last legs is also making the remaining playerbase more impatient.

The way they see it, if their character doesn't get in soon, then it'll never happen because of the game's uncertain future.
 

Megadoomer

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The reactions of some fans towards certain character choices is frustrating.

Maybe it's bias speaking but it feels like the Smash fanbase hasn't been quite this picky about character choices in decades.
I guess it's a combination of a relatively smaller roster size coupled with the sheer amount of properties that WB covers. (in theory, something like Mad Max or Nightmare On Elm Street could make it in, along with various Cartoon Network properties like Johnny Bravo or Dexter's Laboratory, or pre-CN series like Captain Planet, and those are just new franchises, so not getting into additional characters from series like Looney Tunes or Game of Thrones)

The roster's bigger than I expected when I counted it out (it's currently at 33 characters), but with so many properties to draw from, I can see why people might be picky about who gets in when it might feel like Multiversus's current roster is the equivalent of Smash Bros. not having a character like Kirby, Samus, or Luigi by the time of Brawl.
 
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