Multiple characters per third-party *franchise* is now a thing!

[Ghirahilda]

Since I want Tails badly, my answer for this is a big

YES​

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I say the only acception Is tails and knuckles from sonic.

 

[Quillion]

I say the only acception Is tails and knuckles from sonic.

Again, what makes Sonic special in regards to getting more than one character?

 

[kool2419]

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Smash is a game celebrating Nintendo`s history, I don`t want the roster to be swamped with 3rd parties.

 

[LunchmanJ]

I think Sonic is associated with Nintendo so much that he deserves both Tails and Knuckles. He feels so much like a Nintendo character that I feel the devs should design around that and break even more rules and expectations (useless things anyway).I am adding Tails and Knuckles to my roster.

 

[Quillion]

I think Sonic is associated with Nintendo so much that he deserves both Tails and Knuckles. He feels so much like a Nintendo character that I feel the devs should design around that and break even more rules and expectations (useless things anyway).I am adding Tails and Knuckles to my roster.

You know that Mega Man is even more associated with Nintendo, right?

 

[LunchmanJ]

You know that Mega Man is even more associated with Nintendo, right?

Lol true. Who from Mega Man should be added? I don't have a second Mega Man rep because I haven''t played his games, and as a Melee/Project M player, I don't play Smash 4.

EDIT: Wait, what? You could be nicer. If you think I am a nihilist because of "they should break even more rules and expectations (useless things anyway)", then you would not be right. I wrote that fast to best express the idea that rules MIGHT not matter. Plus, my roster is as normie as they come, and I am proud of that.

 

[Sage of Ice]

Ehh. I'm not opposed to third-party stuff altogether, but adding new guests and doubling up on the ones we have already could get out of hand.

Besides, who are we gonna add from pac man? Blinky?

 

[YoshiandToad]

I'm not against it, but nearly entirely only because I like the idea of Tails being in Smash. I don't know much about Megaman so it's hard for me to comment on that. Zero is popular I guess?

Chun Li is the female face of fighting games and as well known as Ryu really so I definitely don't have an issue with her getting in.

Pac-Man and Bayonetta are probably fine as they are; Pac-Man doesn't have anyone other than Ms. Pac-Man and the ghosts of note, the former being alt worthy at best and the latter retaining their assist trophy status and inclusion in Pac-Man's arsenal. Bayonetta meanwhile has characters like Rodin and Jeanne, but I'm not really sure if they'd be recognisable inclusions in comparison to Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, Zero, Roll, Bass, Chun Li, Ken, M. Bison, etc.

 

[~Krystal~]

I wouldn't mind it, but only if they pick their spots and don't go hog wild overloading the roster with third parties. An Eggman here and an X or a Zero there is okay. Just not multiple characters for every franchise we already have, as cool as that sounds on paper.

 

[Quillion]

I wouldn't mind it, but only if they pick their spots and don't go hog wild overloading the roster with third parties. An Eggman here and an X or a Zero there is okay. Just not multiple characters for every franchise we already have, as cool as that sounds on paper.

Like I said earlier; perhaps just two per third-party franchise would be the best for everyone.

 

[Idon]

Absolutely not. I'd rather have a separate character from that company's franchise than a side character of a franchise I might not even care about.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I think it's very likely we'll see secondary third party characters. Dr. Eggman is my main pick for a second Sonic rep.

 

[ryuu seika]

Of all the characters that I've seen here, Bass, Zero and Tails are the ones I most like and would enjoy playing but I don't think that they should be in Smash. They're not icons. They're popular side characters to icons.

Chun Li and Black Mage, however, while not even remotely characters I care for, have standalone appeal that transcends their franchises.

Chun Li is considered an icon of strong female representation in gaming, having earnt herself the title "First Lady of Fighting", while Black Mage represents an entire archetype and, despite being a near mook so far as I can tell, has more sway with fans than any non-Cloud protagonist. Either of them could stand alone to rep their series in Smash and that, IMO, is what makes a worthy second rep.

 

[Quillion]

Of all the characters that I've seen here, Bass, Zero and Tails are the ones I most like and would enjoy playing but I don't think that they should be in Smash. They're not icons. They're popular side characters to icons.

Chun Li and Black Mage, however, while not even remotely characters I care for, have standalone appeal that transcends their franchises.

Chun Li is considered an icon of strong female representation in gaming, having earnt herself the title "First Lady of Fighting", while Black Mage represents an entire archetype and, despite being a near mook so far as I can tell, has more sway with fans than any non-Cloud protagonist. Either of them could stand alone to rep their series in Smash and that, IMO, is what makes a worthy second rep.

I mostly agree, but I'd say Zero is definitely an icon. As far as laser blade-toting badasses go, Zero is one of the most well-known ones.

I still want someone to explain why Sonic deserves to be the only franchise to get multiple characters in Smash, though.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I still want someone to explain why Sonic deserves to be the only franchise to get multiple characters in Smash, though.

For me: preference, mainly. But a lot of it stems from the fact that Sonic is legitimately one of the most well known icons of gaming - see the mentions of him on his Wikipedia page.

Sonic's been the main rival of Mario all through the 90s. Yes, Megaman's been associated with Famicom/NES/etc, but he was just another character for the whole time. Sega was Sonic and Nintendo was Mario through the 90s. That rivalry - which eventually led to Sega letting Sonic appear in Brawl and the Olympics games, all the while playing on that 90s rivalry unique to Sonic vs Mario. Sonic's one of the few characters that most peoples' parents know of, showing his incredible importance in the game industry. Megaman simply doesn't have that legacy and connection with Mario, at least not to such an incredible extent.

To me, Sonic is as deserving as any of Nintendo's IPs (more in some cases, since some of those are incredibly obscure) to get more than one rep. He's also one of the few I'd be happiest with someone more cloney - Tails in Sonic 2 (I think this was my first video game) could do basically the same things, so he'd be great as a semi-clone of Sonic in the way that Luigi started as a Mario clone. Now the other Sonic characters are much more obscure, with the possible exception of Knuckles, as they came along later.

 

[ryuu seika]

Other Sonic characters may be more recent than Tails but Shadow is the one who has most had a pop culture impact. Assuming that characters are picked because they're iconic, he'd be the best option.

Quillion Is beam swordsman really an archetype distinct from swordsman? And, if so, isn't the first character you think of someone like Darth Vader, not an old guy that I rarely hear about outside of Megaman circles?
I don't see Zero having much appeal beyond the crowd that Megaman already caters to.

Plus, from a gameplay standpoint, Shulk reps the beam sword increadibly well.

 

[Quillion]

For me: preference, mainly. But a lot of it stems from the fact that Sonic is legitimately one of the most well known icons of gaming - see the mentions of him on his Wikipedia page.

Sonic's been the main rival of Mario all through the 90s. Yes, Megaman's been associated with Famicom/NES/etc, but he was just another character for the whole time. Sega was Sonic and Nintendo was Mario through the 90s. That rivalry - which eventually led to Sega letting Sonic appear in Brawl and the Olympics games, all the while playing on that 90s rivalry unique to Sonic vs Mario. Sonic's one of the few characters that most peoples' parents know of, showing his incredible importance in the game industry. Megaman simply doesn't have that legacy and connection with Mario, at least not to such an incredible extent.

To me, Sonic is as deserving as any of Nintendo's IPs (more in some cases, since some of those are incredibly obscure) to get more than one rep. He's also one of the few I'd be happiest with someone more cloney - Tails in Sonic 2 (I think this was my first video game) could do basically the same things, so he'd be great as a semi-clone of Sonic in the way that Luigi started as a Mario clone. Now the other Sonic characters are much more obscure, with the possible exception of Knuckles, as they came along later.

Okay, this somewhat convinces me. Though I now think that different third-party franchises can have more than one character for different reasons:

• Mega Man: Has been associated with Nintendo from its inception to now.
• Sonic: Had a fierce rivalry with Mario; one of the biggest gaming icons.
• Street Fighter: Rich, diverse cast; SNES SF2 was Capcom's best-selling game for a long time.
• Final Fantasy: Also rich cast; 1-6 are associated with Nintendo.

 

[Quillion]

I know this is a double post, but I feel that we need a little (slightly late) update after the E3 presentation.

Sakurai has come up with an official name for true clones: Echo Fighters.

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING.

Considering that Sakurai has always insisted that true clones take little development time and the most they need to do is modeling (which itself gets cut down if an outside studio provides a model), Echo Fighters are most likely to be the key to third party franchises getting more than one character, at least for now. The Smash team doesn't seem to want to break the "one per third party franchise rule" as of yet, but maybe if they want to take their first steps beyond that line, Echoes are probably the best option for that.

It certainly helps that some of the most popular characters in each existing third-party franchise play similarly to the hero in their respective canon. Thinking of potential Echoes practically writes itself:

• Sonic: Shadow or Metal Sonic (Tails and Knux would be iffy since they have a long history of NOT playing like Sonic)
• Metal Gear: Big Boss/Naked Snake, pre-Ninja Raiden, Venom Snake.
• Mega Man: Proto Man, Bass, or X (assuming they'll be taken out of Rock's Final Smash in an update or a future game)
• Street Fighter: Ken or Akuma; Evil Ryu if they're feeling really lazy.
• Bayonetta: Jeanne.

Of course, this all runs the risk of creating another "Ganondorf's moveset" situation. Given that quite a bit of fans are still seething and Sakurai still refuses to completely detach Ganondorf from his Falcon-clone roots, unless we get a director who is completely willing to treat clone movesets purely as a stopgap, the same could happen to the new potential third-party Echoes.

 

[Quillion]

I know a triple post is starting to get ridiculous, but Source Gaming put out a short video:

 

[smashingDoug]

If they have enough history, are well known and liked, or can be a clone for an easy character then send in the third party’s

Or can make a big wtf moment

I’m thinking smash might switch from an just a Nintendo all star, to a Nintendo all star with gaming icons sometime

 

[Gallowglass]

Usually I'm against the inclusion of 3rd parties with very rare exceptions (i.e. Chrono). But my question is how does the money play out with the inclusion of these characters? I mean usually the game developers (i.e. Smash Bros) makes the requests for the character like Sonic. Then the owner of that character is then granted royalties for being in the game. The strange thing is that since Smash is such a huge game we seem to have the opposite going on. We companies like Konami and Sega trying to get their characters in the game. Does this effect the royalties? How does this all work? And where can I find solid evidence on how this is done?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Usually I'm against the inclusion of 3rd parties with very rare exceptions (i.e. Chrono). But my question is how does the money play out with the inclusion of these characters? I mean usually the game developers (i.e. Smash Bros) makes the requests for the character like Sonic. Then the owner of that character is then granted royalties for being in the game. The strange thing is that since Smash is such a huge game we seem to have the opposite going on. We companies like Konami and Sega trying to get their characters in the game. Does this effect the royalties? How does this all work? And where can I find solid evidence on how this is done?

I’ve always wondered this myself. True, Nintendo should have to pay royalties, but Smash is such a big series that this amounts to an incredible advertising campaign.

I’ve wondered if a lot of this works like Spider-Man in the MCU. Sure Sony owns the film rights, but they’ve had loads of false starts while Marvel Studios can’t do wrong. There was no money exchange there - Sony got one of their most profitable characters started well and in a moneymaker, and Marvel got one of its most popular properties to use.

I wonder if it’d be the same here. Of course lawyerd for both companies would want to see money transfer (to themselves, obviously), but being in Smash is much more mutually beneficial than just renting rights.

I know this is a double post, but I feel that we need a little (slightly late) update after the E3 presentation.

Sakurai has come up with an official name for true clones: Echo Fighters.

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING.

Considering that Sakurai has always insisted that true clones take little development time and the most they need to do is modeling (which itself gets cut down if an outside studio provides a model), Echo Fighters are most likely to be the key to third party franchises getting more than one character, at least for now. The Smash team doesn't seem to want to break the "one per third party franchise rule" as of yet, but maybe if they want to take their first steps beyond that line, Echoes are probably the best option for that.

It certainly helps that some of the most popular characters in each existing third-party franchise play similarly to the hero in their respective canon. Thinking of potential Echoes practically writes itself:

• Sonic: Shadow or Metal Sonic (Tails and Knux would be iffy since they have a long history of NOT playing like Sonic)
• Metal Gear: Big Boss/Naked Snake, pre-Ninja Raiden, Venom Snake.
• Mega Man: Proto Man, Bass, or X (assuming they'll be taken out of Rock's Final Smash in an update or a future game)
• Street Fighter: Ken or Akuma; Evil Ryu if they're feeling really lazy.
• Bayonetta: Jeanne.

Of course, this all runs the risk of creating another "Ganondorf's moveset" situation. Given that quite a bit of fans are still seething and Sakurai still refuses to completely detach Ganondorf from his Falcon-clone roots, unless we get a director who is completely willing to treat clone movesets purely as a stopgap, the same could happen to the new potential third-party Echoes.

My feelings about not saturating the roster with echoes just because they look similar also holds here. I don’t think that we need echoes for the third parties unless the echo character has sufficient pull to get in on their own merits. Then it can be decided if they truly deserve the dev time to make them unique or if they could reasonably borrow from a parent.

And like with all echoes, I’m biased. The only time a clone works in my eyes is when I like the clone character as much as or more than the parent, I don’t hate the moveset, and it’s not too out of character for the clone to act as such. Right now, the only one I’d be in favoe of would be Tails (Sonic), since I know him most from Sonic 2 where he did mostly the same as Sonic. It’d be a shame not to use his tails to float, but he conceivably act the same.

I know you have some hang-ups about how Ganondorf was handled, but to me he felt much better in Brawl than Melee. His worst part was Sm4sh changig his animations to be a derpy old man rather than an evil powerhouse. True, I’d have liked a projectile added to his neutral, but I didn’t want huge overhauls. Gotta say, he does look loads of fun now. Still, if I had a choice between Falcondorf and no Dorf, I want him on and I had loads of fun with it. I can see all of the ways Peach would be different from Daisy, but I like Peach’s kit so I’m very excited to see Daisy (and her animations seem to be in character as well). So as much as I know Tails ‘wouldn’t work’ as a clone, I wouldn’t care.

 

[Artix]

I'd say either only two characters per company or just only one. I wouldn't mind if Square Enix were to have a second rep, as well as Konami and Namco.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I'd say yes, but it's dependant on the franchise.

For example I love Bayonetta, but beyond a Jeanne echo, it's definitely not a necessity. On the other hand, Final Fantasy have a lot of popular, unique and important characters.

Personally, I see mostly Sonic, Megaman and Street Fighter being contenders for a second rep (Final Fantasy too, but considering how getting Cloud was seemingly complicated...).

 

[DarthEnderX]

It definitely depends on how big and important that franchise is.

That said, even though franchises like Metal Gear, Mega Man, Street Fighter and Final Fantasy are big enough to warrant additional characters, I'd much rather see another Konami, Capcom or SquareEnix franchise get it's first rep before those other franchises get a 2nd.

Like, as much as, say, Raiden, Zero, Chun Li and Black Mage might deserve slots, I'd personally rather see, like, Simon Belmont, Bill Rizer, Arthur(GnG) or Erdrick(DQ) get slots instead.

Unless we're just talking about Echoes. If they're Echoes, then they're not taking up resources that could be spent on another character. So feel free to throw Big Boss, Shadow, Bass, Ken, Zach, Jeanne in there all you want. It doesn't matter.

 

[Skyblade12]

No.

Sorry, but to me, it would no longer be Smash.

Once you open the door like that, there's no coming back. What the hell would Pit or Captain Falcon be doing on a roster that is purely a gaming crossover, and no longer a Nintendo crossover? It will fundamentally change the way the series feels, to me.

It might still be a great game. But it would no longer be Smash.

 

[Turtlar]

I'm all for more third party characters, but no.
Companies like Capcom, Konami, and Square have a plethora of great IPs to choose from, and I would much rather see characters from Castlevania, Dragon Quest, and Ghosts & Goblins added before I see Mega Man, Final Fantasy, or Metal Gear get a second or third character.

 

[Quillion]

My feelings about not saturating the roster with echoes just because they look similar also holds here. I don’t think that we need echoes for the third parties unless the echo character has sufficient pull to get in on their own merits. Then it can be decided if they truly deserve the dev time to make them unique or if they could reasonably borrow from a parent.

And like with all echoes, I’m biased. The only time a clone works in my eyes is when I like the clone character as much as or more than the parent, I don’t hate the moveset, and it’s not too out of character for the clone to act as such. Right now, the only one I’d be in favoe of would be Tails (Sonic), since I know him most from Sonic 2 where he did mostly the same as Sonic. It’d be a shame not to use his tails to float, but he conceivably act the same.

Agreed. I'm not saying they should fill the roster with Echoes just for the hell of it; I'm just saying that some of the best-loved characters whose series are already represented in Smash could fill in the Echo spot since they already play similarly.

They do have to choose the right Echoes as much as anything else, but I think with their short dev time, they'll be a great first step towards multiple characters per third party franchise.

 

[Gamer-YTP]

I think they should stay at adding characters from the same company for now. That has already opened up enough possibilities that I think they should wait until they legitimately run out of ideas for third-party characters before they start adding in people like Tails or Ken.

Also here's a fun thought: Could they potentially treat Mega Man X as a separate series from Mega Man like they do Yoshi and Wario?

 

[GoodGrief741]

I think they should stay at adding characters from the same company for now. That has already opened up enough possibilities that I think they should wait until they legitimately run out of ideas for third-party characters before they start adding in people like Tails or Ken.

Also here's a fun thought: Could they potentially treat Mega Man X as a separate series from Mega Man like they do Yoshi and Wario?

I don’t think so, Mega Man X still has Mega Man in the title, so do Battle Network, Star Force, Legends, et cetera. It’s more likely they’re considered spin-off series, with the exception of X, which might be considered a Gaiden series. With Yoshi and Wario, while they started out as Mario World 2 and Mario Land 3, they stopped using the Mario name. Even then, Yoshi is still sometimes considered a Mario spin-off due to featuring Mario characters.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Sorry, but to me, it would no longer be Smash.

Once you open the door like that, there's no coming back.

Odd position.

The door is already open. The fact there are 3P characters in the game is the open door. Adding multiple characters from the same 3P franchise is not opening a door, it's pushing the already open door slightly further open...

The game should have been no longer Smash to you back in Brawl. You drawing an additional arbitrary line here is just you trying to make the distinction sound more dire than it actually is.

 

[Impa4Smash]

I’d say no unless it was an easy echo/alt skin.

There are still lots of Nintendo characters that could/should join Smash, and Smash is a Nintendo crossover game first and foremost.

And besides that, there’s still a ton of 3rd Party franchises that could get a rep. So why put time and effort into a side character from a 3rd Party series?

 

[Captain Shades]

I believe this is a situational topic, many franchises deserve two, but honestly, I can only see Sonic and maybe PAC-Man having two reps. (The only other is Bayonetta, but due to Nintendo backing her games, I don’t feel she qualifies as Nintendo gains from her success and she has become Nintendo’s M-Rated exclusive. Because of Nintendo using her, I don’t believe she needs to be restricted.)

I will always say this, but Sega is deserving of more than one character even if it is just another Sonic character. Sega has had the most history with Nintendo as Sonic was Mario’s rival throughout the 90s. Then when Sega had to go Third Party, who did they go to, well who else but Nintendo housed the hedgehog exclusively for a few years. Going even more into the future with the Wii, Sonic had 2 exclusive titles with his story series, then of course the praised entry Colors came in as well. Then take in the Mario and Sonic series, it was clear that Sega was the most reliable third party Nintendo had. Sega also made exclusive games for Wii U, now while the quality can be judged, there was an effort by Sega to provide for the console in their contract with Nintendo. Even today, Sonic is on Nintendo platforms and in a way that doesn’t screw Nintendo fans, like some other companies support. So I feel Sega is very justified in having two Sonic reps, Sonic was a rival, turned greatest ally. Also, Sonic has been in every Smash since the introduction of 3rd party reps, to help his case in being the best for two reps.

Namco Bandai is the other strange company, as really, other then Sega they are Nintendo’s best bet for 3rd party support that has had reps in Smash. (Ubisoft is a company that I would consider better, but Rayman ain’t in yet) Namco is overall a great company that has worked with Nintendo for years now. Miyamoto is also a big fan of PAC, raising his second rep chances. Namco is really just a very friendly company for Nintendo, and since they have developed 2 Smash games now, I say they deserve some more love.

As for the other companies, no.

Square is fine with just Cloud, they are more on Nintendo’s side now, but there was a huge absence of Square on Nintendo platforms outside of a few titles and having hand held games on the DS and 3DS. I’d say give it time, Cloud is a good way of supporting them already.

Capcom is probably the single biggest @$$hole out of the bunch. Really screwing over Switch owners with their lacking of physical copies and requiring downloads for even simple games like the Mega Man Collections. They also refuse to put titles on Switch, like MVCI, even though fans were begging for Switch ports. Capcom wasn’t even going to support the Switch, saying they’ll only do it if you buy a remake of Street Fighter 2. I honestly don’t think Capcom really deserves more reps, as they seem more likely to backstab the big N then support them. They were there for mainly 3 console generations being NES, SNES, and GameCube, but afterwards their support varied, making it hard to justify a second rep for them.

And Konami, is Konami. Not really bad, but after GC their support dwindled. Not to mention the internal issues in the company, and the firing and blatant disrespect of Sakurai’s friend Kojima. Konami is bettering themselves and helping the Switch with their Bomberman title getting tons of free updates. IDK. Konami is important having the first 3rd party rep, but some of their issues make it hard for me to support them over SEGA or Namco.

I guess my criteria is one based on the companies. If they have a long history with Nintendo and support them now, then I think they deserve another character, but if they are newer to the Nintendo support circle or are actively hating on the company now, then I think they should be held back.

 

[Quillion]

Odd position.

The door is already open. The fact there are 3P characters in the game is the open door. Adding multiple characters from the same 3P franchise is not opening a door, it's pushing the already open door slightly further open...

The game should have been no longer Smash to you back in Brawl. You drawing an additional arbitrary line here is just you trying to make the distinction sound more dire than it actually is.

That being said, a hard limit for characters per company wouldn't hurt. Two per franchise would actually be a good limit as well.

 

[Skyblade12]

Odd position.

The door is already open. The fact there are 3P characters in the game is the open door. Adding multiple characters from the same 3P franchise is not opening a door, it's pushing the already open door slightly further open...

The game should have been no longer Smash to you back in Brawl. You drawing an additional arbitrary line here is just you trying to make the distinction sound more dire than it actually is.

Right now, they feel like guests. Hugely iconic characters representing series that have had a significant impact on gaming. Once you can get in multiples, you’ll be letting in lesser characters, and ones that don’t mean as much, and diluting the roster a lot.

 

[Xebenkeck]

My personal view on third party characters is they are fine so long as they had a game on a Nintendo console. Im fine with a suggestion like banjo because anyone who had a N64 probably played a Banjo game.

As for multiple characters I would say if the tie to Nintendo is strong then sure. Its a celebration of Nintendo and there is no denying that some third party characters are just as much a part of their success/history as some Nintendo exclusive characters.

At the same token this is why I hate Clouds inclusion because FF7 was never on Nintendo consoles. A final fantasy character like black mage or white mage would be infinately better because i had FF1 for the NES and fondly remember playing as them on a Nintendo console.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Right now, they feel like guests.

I don't see how they can still feel like guests at this point. When some of them have been in the series for 3 games now. And Mega Man is just hanging out with the other Nintendo characters in the CGI trailer for a new Nintendo character.

At the very least, Nintendo doesn't TREAT them like guests.

 

[Quillion]

Right now, they feel like guests. Hugely iconic characters representing series that have had a significant impact on gaming. Once you can get in multiples, you’ll be letting in lesser characters, and ones that don’t mean as much, and diluting the roster a lot.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

A per-company or per-franchise limit wouldn't hurt, but don't pretend that we'll suddenly get SpongeBob or Goku in Smash just because they're allowing multiple characters per franchise.

 

[Captain Shades]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

A per-company or per-franchise limit wouldn't hurt, but don't pretend that we'll suddenly get SpongeBob or Goku in Smash just because they're allowing multiple characters per franchise.

Are you saying Spongebob and Goku aren’t huge influences on gaming? I’ll have you know, Spongebob Battle for Bikini Bottom was an excellent 3D platformer and Dragon Ball Xenoverse is even beating Marvel vs. Capcom in popularity. Heck, even my boi (who will definitely get in) Shrek has the very influential game that is Shrek’s Super Slam. A game that may easily over take Smash as it’s better.

JK

No, I agree, having limits seems reasonable. I think 1-2 per 3rd party franchise would be a good limit. Especially if the 2nd rep is an echo like Shadow will most likely be. Maybe the limit for 3rd party franchises represented by characters should be 3, as I know Capcom has more reps that the Smash community probably wants, like Phoenix Wright. Namco also has a huge selection of franchises to take characters from. I may not like all companies or see them as deserving of more reps right now, but I can’t deny that some companies have the possibility for 3.

My personal view on third party characters is they are fine so long as they had a game on a Nintendo console. Im fine with a suggestion like banjo because anyone who had a N64 probably played a Banjo game.

As for multiple characters I would say if the tie to Nintendo is strong then sure. Its a celebration of Nintendo and there is no denying that some third party characters are just as much a part of their success/history as some Nintendo exclusive characters.

At the same token this is why I hate Clouds inclusion because FF7 was never on Nintendo consoles. A final fantasy character like black mage or white mage would be infinately better because i had FF1 for the NES and fondly remember playing as them on a Nintendo console.

I disagree. Final Fantasy is an important gaming franchise, and Cloud is the most recognizable. Honestly Cloud deserved his spot as FF’s rep due to his legacy in the series, and FF deserved a character thanks to its influence and impact on gaming as a whole.

If anyone was to get in though, I believe the clear pick is Rayman. He has history with Nintendo, is from a company that has heavily supported Nintendo systems since the Wii, had randomly sent 3D models in Smash 4, and is heavily requested.