MU Chart v3

[Red Arremer]

Hey everyone, I’m Red Arremer and will be leading Samus' panel for the BBR Match-Up Chart v3 again. The thread detailing panel leaders, as well as other various information about the project, can be found here.

The current panelists for this panel are:
Red Arremer (Panel Leader)
Xyro
DtJ Composer

We are limited to five panelists for this project, and are looking for active and knowledgeable members of the character community to help fill our remaining openings. If you would like to join the panel for this character, please make a post demonstrating your interest in this thread, along with what would make you a desirable panelist. Keep in mind that debating skills are important for all panel members, and those with poor behavior will be ejected from the project if complaints arise.

Personally, I think that if No-idea confirms, the panel size is sufficient (us 3 were the only active panelists last time around anyway), but I'll definitely look at your applications.

If you have any questions or concerns regarding this panel or its activities, feel free to post them in this thread. You may also PM me or Ish if you would rather speak to one of us privately. Panelist selections will be finalized in a week or two, at which point we will begin discussing which match-ups to change in the panelist subforum.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm interested in this, but my Samus doesn't exist on Youtube at all.

Obviously Noid is a better choice than me, just expressing interest. Might get some **** recorded at the tourney next weekend and you guys can decide whether I'm worthy.

My debating skills shouldn't be in question for anyone who has seen me posting in the Competitive Brawl Discussion section; nor should my willingness to contribute a lot of my time and effort to vidya gamez theory.

 

[DtJ Composer]

Honestly video proof of wether or not your samus is good isn't as important as having actually match-up knowledge/the ability to theorycraft and not be bias here.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Regardless, I like to have video evidence to link to when I theorycraft

 

[Red Arremer]

Necessary or not, it at least is entertaining to watch Samus action. ^^

 

[DtJ Composer]

Fair enough!

I wouldn't mind working on this, especially if Xyro is already on board as an anchor to my opinions on stuff haha.
I guess I agree with the sentiment that No-ID should be on if he wants to, but I dunno how active he is anymore/whether or not he still plays Samus.

For what it's worth (it really isn't) I was on the Top 5 Samus list!

 

[Xyro77]

The only issue i have is this "theory crafting" you guys are already bringing up. DO NOT theory craft under any circumstance. If you honestly don't know something, admit it, dont bull **** it. If its looking like Samus might be having even worse MUs this time than on the last MU chart then so be it. Don't lie or fight something just so she has better MUs. ACCURACY is the most important thing here, not placement.

 

[DtJ Composer]

Don't lie or fight something just so she has better MUs. ACCURACY is the most important thing here, not placement.

Well yeah.

I don't think there's anything wrong with minor theory crafting. Naturally if Player X has way more experience in a match-up than I do I'm going to shy away from the conversation in lieu of letting Player X talk/share direct knowledge (which is ultimately what matters), but I don't think there's a problem with casually springboarding concepts/ideas about the MU just for the sake of more options/more thoughts.




Having said that; no matter who is on the panel, if Olimar/Samus is any better than -8 in Olimar's favor then the list should be scrapped.

 

[Xyro77]

Well yeah.

I don't think there's anything wrong with minor theory crafting. Naturally if Player X has way more experience in a match-up than I do I'm going to shy away from the conversation in lieu of letting Player X talk/share direct knowledge (which is ultimately what matters), but I don't think there's a problem with casually springboarding concepts/ideas about the MU just for the sake of more options/more thoughts.




Having said that; no matter who is on the panel, if Olimar/Samus is any better than -8 in Olimar's favor then the list should be scrapped.

any level of theory crafting is just stupid imo.

i can literally say "power shield everything and buffer everything" and boom samus has a 65-35 MU vs every character in the game. but realistically that is not possible. Hell, its not possible for any player or any character. yet **** like that is argued on a daily basis.

there is a difference in sitting back and not saying anything vs blab blab blab about stuff you have never experienced or just arguing because u wanna find holes in the foes argument.

i know this is probably coming off as mean but i really hope we all seriously keep the theory craft bull **** to a absolute low.

 

[DtJ Composer]

I think we're on the same page here, we're just arguing semantics.

I'm not willing to jump to the extreme of theorycrafting (where I am willing to argue something that is unproven and that I can't back up with experience for the sake of padding the numbers). It's more along the lines that if we're discussing an MU that I'm not familiar with and I have an idea/question about whether X or Y would help/hurt a match-up, I will bring it up for discussion. I'm not necessarily willing to fight for/against it changing the ratio (and it's mostly the reason that I would only be willing to help with this if you were a part of it--if I ask/suggest something and I'm wrong/it doesn't work, you'll tell me straight up), it would be for curiosity's sake.

For the sake of knowledge, not for the sake of the ratio.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

any level of theory crafting is just stupid imo.

i can literally say "power shield everything and buffer everything" and boom samus has a 65-35 MU vs every character in the game. but realistically that is not possible. Hell, its not possible for any player or any character. yet **** like that is argued on a daily basis.

there is a difference in sitting back and not saying anything vs blab blab blab about stuff you have never experienced or just arguing because u wanna find holes in the foes argument.

i know this is probably coming off as mean but i really hope we all seriously keep the theory craft bull **** to a absolute low.

You can't say that because the absolute extreme of theorycrafting is stupid, theorycrafting at any level is dumb.

It is not reasonable to assume that a player can power shield and buffer everything, so obviously that's bad theory-crafting.

But if we understand the physics of the game enough to say "Well, in this situation, Yoshi likes to approach like this, which Samus can cover with a zair" without having in-depth experience in such an obscure MU, that can only be beneficial imo.

Theory-crafting shouldn't be an argument, but we should definitely let it fill the gaps between arguments imo.

 

[Xyro77]

You can't say that because the absolute extreme of theorycrafting is stupid, theorycrafting at any level is dumb.

It is not reasonable to assume that a player can power shield and buffer everything, so obviously that's bad theory-crafting.

But if we understand the physics of the game enough to say "Well, in this situation, Yoshi likes to approach like this, which Samus can cover with a zair" without having in-depth experience in such an obscure MU, that can only be beneficial imo.

Theory-crafting shouldn't be an argument, but we should definitely let it fill the gaps between arguments imo.

if this were melee id agree with you 100%.

but this is brawl. it is NEVER what it seems.

 

[Red Arremer]

Alright, Noid sadly never came back to me regarding his invitation, so the panel will be finalized with Xyro, Composer and me.

 

[DtJ Composer]

I'll be sure to make you proud dad!

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

i don't care for this theory stuff, but I want to make you Samus vs. Snake even at least only a small disadvantage for Samus.
on Apex I will show you why

ah and Xyro i accept your MM