Moveset Speculation and Discussion Thread

[meowmere]

Earlier in this thread, people were talking about Nintendo editing out that smoke rage effect you get when you're over 100%. Well, not true because here is an example https://youtu.be/j1JERhUoQoU?t=1423

This leads me to believe that back air killing below 100 at the edge and the bite from the dragon fang shot killing at the edge below 100 is entirely possible.

It's important to differentiate between a trailer and normal gameplay. Maybe it was edited out in the trailer to make it look more appealing, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's edited out in the demonstration of the characters' movesets.

 

[OceloT42]

I think

Just as a quick reminder, February arrives in less than two weeks! Crazy how fast time goes by.
So far, Corrin seems like a cool character to me. But you know what would be even more amazing? If you could do some strong kill set-ups with his up-b. Like down throw into up-b. This will most likely not happen, though, as your opponent will probably be knocked away to the side, and not upwards. Another reason killing with this move will surely not be a good option is its startup, which is huge. A few pages earlier, someone posted a gif of Corrin's up-b on the Umbra Clock Tower stage, if you want to see this move in action (we also found out that it clips to the ledge, which is a big plus).

I think up b looks incredibly weak by gameplay looks. Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[meowmere]

I think
I think up b looks incredibly weak by gameplay looks. Correct me if I'm wrong

Well, one cannot be corrected on what they think.

 

[OceloT42]

Well, one cannot be corrected on what they think.

Don't take it the wrong way,I would love for Corrin's up b to have more knockback than it looks like, but it seems to have incredibly weak base knockback, don't you think?
Hardly useful for KOing.
If you can prove otherwise,I'd really love it.

 

[Zult]

Meh, the up b reminds of Charizard's. I don't know if you can use Charizard's out of shield. Also doubt it will have any killing power.

 

[Patriot Duck]

Don't take it the wrong way,I would love for Corrin's up b to have more knockback than it looks like, but it seems to have incredibly weak base knockback, don't you think?
Hardly useful for KOing.
If you can prove otherwise,I'd really love it.

Base Knockback has little bearing on whether or not something will KO. Look at Ness's back throw. Furthermore, we don't know the percent the other characters were at when they were hit by Dragon Ascent. They might have been at, say, 10% for all we know.

On the subject of up B, assuming the wings are disjointed, it looks like a pretty safe recovery option.

 

[LancerStaff]

Why does this look like an amazing approach option. Sounds so bad to use a grouded side B, but idk.

To me it looks like Lucas was still in PK Fire endlag, and even then I imagine a Uair would of hit Corrin. When he jumps out of it, can he airdodge right away? Most normal situations you can, but a ledge jump won't let you do anything until a certain height.

It still looks easily reactable. Heck, you can probably just jump on reaction and end up right next to Corrin and punish instead of waiting around where the move lands.

Trailer is 30fps. Replays are 30fps. I wouldn't make a comparison and post it here if the framerates were not the same.

Just making sure...

Quick note about replays though. While they do typically run at 30fps, that doesn't mean you're necessarily seeing the whole animation. Already you can end up losing a frame of startup and endlag simply from going from 60 to 30, and then the replay converter can be weird and either make more or less frames in any given situation.

While not important for this move (we all know it's bad, come on now) it's pretty big for other moves because a couple frames takes something from being reasonably reactable to being unreactable.

Meh, the up b reminds of Charizard's. I don't know if you can use Charizard's out of shield. Also doubt it will have any killing power.

Zard's can be used OoS and is a decent kill option, but it also doesn't look anything like Zard's...

Reminds me of Pit's Striking Flight custom, but I think I already made the comparisons.

 

[z00ted]

LMFAO @ THE DOUBLE POSTING POST
good post.. :'- )

btw im already best corrin.. sakurai's my uncle (literally) and gifted me the release date for my birthday + 2 week corrin demo
also he beamed my mind all frame data info and confirmed setups, mark my words ... feb 12th corrin release

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

To me it looks like Lucas was still in PK Fire endlag, and even then I imagine a Uair would of hit Corrin. When he jumps out of it, can he airdodge right away? Most normal situations you can, but a ledge jump won't let you do anything until a certain height.

It still looks easily reactable. Heck, you can probably just jump on reaction and end up right next to Corrin and punish instead of waiting around where the move lands.

Yes and I agree completely, but Side-B seems disjointed and the IASA on pin looks good (could be terrible). I was thinking more on the lines of jumping over ZSS grab or Shiek's needles with grounded side-b. Even if you only pin the ground seems like your in a more favorable position because now you have 4 options. I don't know maybe Kick if they roll, jump if they attack, or cancel if they jump.

About dair I wouldn't call it out right bad... subpar yes, but it's the multi-hit that makes it so interesting.

 

[LancerStaff]

Yes and I agree completely, but Side-B seems disjointed and the IASA on pin looks good (could be terrible). I was thinking more on the lines of jumping over ZSS grab or Shiek's needles with grounded side-b. Even if you only pin the ground seems like your in a more favorable position because now you have 4 options. I don't know maybe Kick if they roll, jump if they attack, or cancel if they jump.

About dair I wouldn't call it out right bad... subpar yes, but it's the multi-hit that makes it so interesting.

Against ZSS, if you try and bait a grab you can end up being baited for a Flip Jump yourself. Against Sheik... No, Sheik's too fast for this to be effective.

Honestly, the whole move looks easily beaten by a simple roll and then a Usmash or Uair. All the options out of it either look slow or in the case of jumping outright puts you in a bad position. Being above anybody in this game is a bad idea.

Stall then fall Dairs are pretty terrible across the board. Greninja's is rewarding because he jumps off the opponent, Sonic's is safe at the cost of further telegraphing the move, and Bowser's while not necessarily safe on shield isn't something you want to shield in the first place. Corrin's Dair doesn't appear to have any of those good attributes.

 

[OceloT42]

LMFAO @ THE DOUBLE POSTING POST
good post.. :'- )

btw im already best corrin.. sakurai's my uncle (literally) and gifted me the release date for my birthday + 2 week corrin demo
also he beamed my mind all frame data info and confirmed setups, mark my words ... feb 12th corrin release

Lol I can't even tell whether you're serious or joking

Against ZSS, if you try and bait a grab you can end up being baited for a Flip Jump yourself. Against Sheik... No, Sheik's too fast for this to be effective.

Honestly, the whole move looks easily beaten by a simple roll and then a Usmash or Uair. All the options out of it either look slow or in the case of jumping outright puts you in a bad position. Being above anybody in this game is a bad idea.

Stall then fall Dairs are pretty terrible across the board. Greninja's is rewarding because he jumps off the opponent, Sonic's is safe at the cost of further telegraphing the move, and Bowser's while not necessarily safe on shield isn't something you want to shield in the first place. Corrin's Dair doesn't appear to have any of those good attributes.

Wheat would you say are Corrin's pros then?

 

[alguidrag]

First dobble post ^^^^

Second bro if you compare character to sheik and zss OF COURSE they will look weak, you can't be "oh his side B is easy punished by Sheik's speed its a bad move" "oh his up B is open to ZSS down B its so bad" because those 2 are the top tiers, and of course Corrin will not be perfect, so TRY at least TRY to look in his positives points like"oh his side b will be good to cover rolls" "oh the bite will do a good shield damage so people will be scared to it""oh seems that his Upsmash have disjount so will be a good anti aerial" now we all need to focus in corrin STRONG points let the others find his weakness for now, because we all will know his weakness when he arrives, but his strong points is good to alredy have inmind

 

[z00ted]

BRO, OCELOT42!!! ATTENTION!! YOU ARE UNDER ARREST: WEE WOO WEE WOO WEEE WOOO!!!!

Remember that post The Soulless One made about double posting, without mentioning any names??
WELL GUESS WHAT, BUDDY?? I'M GONNA MENTION A NAME!! IT'S YOU!! CONGRATULATIONS!! YOU ARE THE **** POSTER IN THIS THREAD

I'm all for it, kinda.. cause it's entertaining and I'm only here to see what type of cryptic illuminati Corrin knowledge you people "feel" as though you've discovered (while I sit here laughing and continue to two stock everyone with my pre-demo best Corrin skills). But wanna know something else? Other people probably don't find it fun ;___; cause every time you **** post, they check their notifications... to find... next to no substantial information! Or even a discussion that's kinda relevant!

Pro tips:

1) Replying to a quote with a one sentence question is never a good idea. Try to bring up another topic or formulate ideas without just asking if something is viable or not.

2) Quality > Quantity. Can't stress this enough, especially on a character that all of you guys (not me, I have sweet sweet Corrin in my hands as we speak) don't have yet to test and play.

3) MULTI-QUOTING IS A THING!! Think something someone says is funny? Wait until you have something relevant to discuss and then multiquote their hilarious 'XD lel' content into your ONE (1) post!! You address two things at once, it's like it's simply Smashboards magic!!

To sum this all up, you cool bro. I remember my first days, wanting to rack up those posts to become a Smash Hero or Master or whatever the **** they call it these days lmao I can't even remember cause it's actually so irrelevant. But, trust me.. the post count and title that goes with it on Smashboards isn't gonna feel as good.. people aren't going to respect it as much (lol) if you don't put YO MIND and some real THOUGHT into whatchu sayin'. So keep it up, and keep on smashing. Feel me dawgy dawg, arf arf arf?????

Also, another pro tip. You could be practicing the actual game right now. Forums, frame data and speculation is always fun.. but nothing beats the time put into a character. Judging the amount of double posts you got going on here, I'd advise you pick up a controller real quick (and play with literally any character) instead of a keyboard if you want to even think about going head to head (and taking a stock) against my best Corrin skills anytime soon.

 

[exnecross]

I'm still predicting dtilt to be Corrin's best move.

Also post above mine is cancer.

 

[z00ted]

$100 money match me corrin dittos on release
greatest post you'll view in your mortal existence

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

$100 money match me corrin dittos on release
greatest post you'll view in your mortal existence

Not on wi-fi and maybe late into 2016 when Corrin's meta evolves...MAYBE.

Side note on the Up-b it seems to have terrible start-up but i wonder if it can be used as a combo breaker to escape to a top platform on BF/DL.

 

[Zult]

Quick note about replays though. While they do typically run at 30fps, that doesn't mean you're necessarily seeing the whole animation. Already you can end up losing a frame of startup and endlag simply from going from 60 to 30, and then the replay converter can be weird and either make more or less frames in any given situation.

While not important for this move (we all know it's bad, come on now) it's pretty big for other moves because a couple frames takes something from being reasonably reactable to being unreactable.

The same way you preach about moves potentially not being good is the same way you should preach about moves that look bad. I don't think you've ever seen stall and fall moves used optimally. Just because you're not using it 50times a match doesn't mean it's bad.

 

[OceloT42]

BRO, OCELOT42!!! ATTENTION!! YOU ARE UNDER ARREST: WEE WOO WEE WOO WEEE WOOO!!!!

View attachment 92686

Remember that post The Soulless One made about double posting, without mentioning any names??
WELL GUESS WHAT, BUDDY?? I'M GONNA MENTION A NAME!! IT'S YOU!! CONGRATULATIONS!! YOU ARE THE **** POSTER IN THIS THREAD

I'm all for it, kinda.. cause it's entertaining and I'm only here to see what type of cryptic illuminati Corrin knowledge you people "feel" as though you've discovered (while I sit here laughing and continue to two stock everyone with my pre-demo best Corrin skills). But wanna know something else? Other people probably don't find it fun ;___; cause every time you **** post, they check their notifications... to find... next to no substantial information! Or even a discussion that's kinda relevant!

Pro tips:

1) Replying to a quote with a one sentence question is never a good idea. Try to bring up another topic or formulate ideas without just asking if something is viable or not.

2) Quality > Quantity. Can't stress this enough, especially on a character that all of you guys (not me, I have sweet sweet Corrin in my hands as we speak) don't have yet to test and play.

3) MULTI-QUOTING IS A THING!! Think something someone says is funny? Wait until you have something relevant to discuss and then multiquote their hilarious 'XD lel' content into your ONE (1) post!! You address two things at once, it's like it's simply Smashboards magic!!

To sum this all up, you cool bro. I remember my first days, wanting to rack up those posts to become a Smash Hero or Master or whatever the **** they call it these days lmao I can't even remember cause it's actually so irrelevant. But, trust me.. the post count and title that goes with it on Smashboards isn't gonna feel as good.. people aren't going to respect it as much (lol) if you don't put YO MIND and some real THOUGHT into whatchu sayin'. So keep it up, and keep on smashing. Feel me dawgy dawg, arf arf arf?????

Also, another pro tip. You could be practicing the actual game right now. Forums, frame data and speculation is always fun.. but nothing beats the time put into a character. Judging the amount of double posts you got going on here, I'd advise you pick up a controller real quick (and play with literally any character) instead of a keyboard if you want to even think about going head to head (and taking a stock) against my best Corrin skills anytime soon.

Damn.
Well I apologise everyone,I normally view this from my phone and it's sort of wonky to edit,so I double post instead.I had no idea your rank raised by post,is that a thing?
Also, guy, if you seem to have your "best Corrin skills", how about actually helping out on this thread by clarifying some of our speculations?
Coming back to business, since every stall-then-fall is a meteor smash, would his dair be one? Since it's multi-hit, I highly doubt it.
Also which of his aerials, if any, looks like it may possess autocancel?
I'm terrible at judging it for myself, mostly because I can't really keep an eye out for details.I've watched the direct n times just because I can't wait for Feb, not to analyse him or anything.
Sorry again about the double posting people!

 

[Zult]

Damn.
Well I apologise everyone,I normally view this from my phone and it's sort of wonky to edit,so I double post instead.I had no idea your rank raised by post,is that a thing?
Also, guy, if you seem to have your "best Corrin skills", how about actually helping out on this thread by clarifying some of our speculations?
Coming back to business, since every stall-then-fall is a meteor smash, would his dair be one? Since it's multi-hit, I highly doubt it.
Also which of his aerials, if any, looks like it may possess autocancel?
I'm terrible at judging it for myself, mostly because I can't really keep an eye out for details.I've watched the direct n times just because I can't wait for Feb, not to analyse him or anything.
Sorry again about the double posting people!

I have no idea what they are talking about. I really don't care about this smash apprentice stuff or smash hero stuff. I didn't know double posting was a sin. that everyone gets butthurt over. I'm just here to discuss things about Corrin.

Also, Kirby's down air is a multi hit and spikes. So it might be able to spike too, who knows.

 

[OceloT42]

I have no idea what they are talking about. I really don't care about this smash apprentice stuff or smash hero stuff. I didn't know double posting was a sin. that everyone gets butthurt over. I'm just here to discuss things about Corrin.

Also, Kirby's down air is a multi hit and spikes. So it might be able to spike too, who knows.

Were you able to judge any autocancel aerials or any such, Zult?

 

[Planty]

Any aerial in the game can auto cancel (but some stall then falls may be exceptions). The only thing that changes is WHEN it auto cancels. Fair might auto cancel from a short hop. Nair and Bair might auto cancel from a fullhop. I don't know about Uair but it probably auto cancels from a full hop too. Dair might not auto cancel or not auto cancel from any useful height.

 

[Zult]

Were you able to judge any autocancel aerials or any such, Zult?

Nair looks like it autocancels. I see it being a combo starter for sure.

Also would like to point out that Corrin's skid looks extremely fast to act out of. Hope for good ground movement like extended dash dancing and trotting? Also notice how stupidly fast that dtilt is the other Corrin is doing.

 

[OceloT42]

Can anyone compare the Fire Emblem character's range in comparision to his sword Yato?
That thing looks as big as Ragnell.
Also dtilt looks like it has hella IASA frames,though I might be wrong.

 

[LordShade67]

Nair looks like it autocancels. I see it being a combo starter for sure.

Also would like to point out that Corrin's skid looks extremely fast to act out of. Hope for good ground movement like extended dash dancing and trotting? Also notice how stupidly fast that dtilt is the other Corrin is doing.

Actually, I'm seeing landing lag on NAir, but not much. It also doesn't look like he did it immediately after the SH, so...

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

I Apologize if this is a little off topic but if you're watching G3

Spoiler

But the incorporation of Dive kick dair used by zero/marss/nairo/void in top 8 is phenomenal and they aren't even safe on block or disjointed.

I know im still stuck on dair and it's annoying, but my mind cant grasp how it functions as a multi-hit dive kick. Lets your at the top blastzone of FD and you Dive kick and hit Sheik right under you. How many times will you hit Sheik before you both hit the ground or do you even hit the ground? And if there is a spike hitbox then how many hits before the spike hitbox.

I just feel there has to be a duration for the drill on Corrin's legs and once finished it would Autocancel. Again it could have a crazy active hitbox and slam into to the ground and be an extremly laggy worthless aerial, but I still have hope for a reason to believe it wont.(Im done taking about dair)

The other aerials don't interest me as much because Fair and Uair seem the same as Marth/Lucina/Roy. Bair is pretty cool, but it feels like metaknight should have that bair lol. If bair is disjointed and autocancels while it kinda already self spaces then prepare for Melee puff bair wall. To me Nair looks like VIllager/Diddy Kong nair on crack with swords... There has to be something wrong with it to make it balanced. Most likely lag low IASA or no Auto cancel.

Tl:dr Last thoughts about dair is it has to have a set about of hits... im done talking about dair, other aerials seem pretty basic nothing new except bair.

 

[OceloT42]

I Apologize if this is a little off topic but if you're watching G3

Spoiler

But the incorporation of Dive kick dair used by zero/marss/nairo/void in top 8 is phenomenal and they aren't even safe on block or disjointed.

I know im still stuck on dair and it's annoying, but my mind cant grasp how it functions as a multi-hit dive kick. Lets your at the top blastzone of FD and you Dive kick and hit Sheik right under you. How many times will you hit Sheik before you both hit the ground or do you even hit the ground? And if there is a spike hitbox then how many hits before the spike hitbox.

I just feel there has to be a duration for the drill on Corrin's legs and once finished it would Autocancel. Again it could have a crazy active hitbox and slam into to the ground and be an extremly laggy worthless aerial, but I still have hope for a reason to believe it wont.(Im done taking about dair)

The other aerials don't interest me as much because Fair and Uair seem the same as Marth/Lucina/Roy. Bair is pretty cool, but it feels like metaknight should have that bair lol. If bair is disjointed and autocancels while it kinda already self spaces then prepare for Melee puff bair wall. To me Nair looks like VIllager/Diddy Kong nair on crack with swords... There has to be something wrong with it to make it balanced. Most likely lag low IASA or no Auto cancel.

Tl:dr Last thoughts about dair is it has to have a set about of hits... im done talking about dair, other aerials seem pretty basic nothing new except bair.

His nair looks like Ike's/Cloud's/Shulk's

 

[Zult]

I Apologize if this is a little off topic but if you're watching G3

Spoiler

But the incorporation of Dive kick dair used by zero/marss/nairo/void in top 8 is phenomenal and they aren't even safe on block or disjointed.

I know im still stuck on dair and it's annoying, but my mind cant grasp how it functions as a multi-hit dive kick. Lets your at the top blastzone of FD and you Dive kick and hit Sheik right under you. How many times will you hit Sheik before you both hit the ground or do you even hit the ground? And if there is a spike hitbox then how many hits before the spike hitbox.

I just feel there has to be a duration for the drill on Corrin's legs and once finished it would Autocancel. Again it could have a crazy active hitbox and slam into to the ground and be an extremly laggy worthless aerial, but I still have hope for a reason to believe it wont.(Im done taking about dair)

The other aerials don't interest me as much because Fair and Uair seem the same as Marth/Lucina/Roy. Bair is pretty cool, but it feels like metaknight should have that bair lol. If bair is disjointed and autocancels while it kinda already self spaces then prepare for Melee puff bair wall. To me Nair looks like VIllager/Diddy Kong nair on crack with swords... There has to be something wrong with it to make it balanced. Most likely lag low IASA or no Auto cancel.

Tl:dr Last thoughts about dair is it has to have a set about of hits... im done talking about dair, other aerials seem pretty basic nothing new except bair.

I never thought about down air like that. You may be onto something actually. So if the hits link into each other and never stop, that would be a crazy amount of damage if you were to start it from really high above the stage. Some stall and fall moves don't actually keep going all the way down. Bowser's on Palutena's Temple stops like half way down. I wonder if it's the same distance for all stall and fall moves. This really interests me now.

As for nair, don't be surprised if it's stupidly good. Cloud and Ryu have some stupidly good things that wouldn't make sense on paper for balancing purposes. Ryu with 2-3frame kill confirms at 60 and Cloud's dair and up air being ridiculous combo set ups and kill set ups.

Here is my semi pseudo tier list for Corrin's move (SPECULATION may I remind you)

1. Down tilt. Looks good for spacing and as a combo starter
2. Dragon Fang Shot. It stuns! The set ups will be very interesting. And has a bite after it.
3. Forward air. A good neutral tool. Who doesn't want that.
4. Nair looks good. Covers a lot of area. Looks like a potential combo starter like most nairs. It doesn't look like a get-out of-jail-free-card nair, but a tool to cover options very well. Potentially auto cancels or has very very small end lag.
5. Down throw. Potential combo throw?
6. Upthrow. Potential kill throw?
7. Dragon Lunge. Seems really good as a good move to punish people you've baited since it appears to come out really fast.
8. Forward smash. Looks good at punishing from a distance. Covers options with the hitbox it has when being charged. Looking like the ultimate Luma killer too
   
9. Bair. Kill move according to the trailer. Maybe good for spacing?
10. Up air. People are sleeping on this move. Falling up airs, if anything like Marth's or Lucina's, will be amazing as combo starters.
11. Up smash looks really good. Dunno if it has a hitbox on the side though. If it does, then it's looking really good. Has tipper. Gonna be killing people at 80 with it if it's anything like Sheik's or Marth's.
12. Jabs! Corrin's jabs actually look really good if you paid attention to it in the trailer. I see Jab 1,2 into something like grab or down tilt being a thing. Multi hit jab also looking great too.
13. Dash attack. Multi hit, so can potentially catch spot dodges. May be actually really good for catching rolls too. My only worry is the lag. As a Pit main, I'm used to being able to throw out my frame 5 dash attack. That's why Marth's dash attack makes me cry. On the bright side, it looks disjointed. So we'll see.
14. Down air. Multi hit stall and fall. A first of its kind. Looking very interesting.
15. Forward tilt. Has very little knockback, but the angle it sends people at is kinda awkward. I don't see it having any guaranteed follow ups, but I do see it having set ups. Ftilt to dragon fang shot if they air dodge. If they are afraid of that option and people tend to jump then we can adapt and cover the jump option with something like dragon lunge or nair.
16. Up tilt. On big characters, it hits on both side as shown on DK in the trailer. Potential combo starter. Also has low knock back like ftilt.
17. The up b. Looks decent. At least it snaps to the ledge.
18. Down smash. A down smash. It seems pretty average in terms of down smashes. I wonder if there's a tipper on this one too.
19. Counter. A counter.
20. Foward and back throw we have no information on.
21. Pummel is the slow the slow 3% one, ew.

Other things:

• Trotting and extended dash dancing look great
• Jump height looks average
• Short hop looks good
• Air mobility I'm not sure about. Need more info

Edit:

Confirmed, down smash has a tipper behind Corrin. Notice the spark. Which is not shocking. Most down smashes, if not all, are stronger from the behind. It's also a dragon part, which makes it make even more sense.

Dash attack is disjointed for a fact.

So um, after watching this loop like 20 times I've been wondering some things. The start up looks not terrible. The end lag actually looks decent when you watch it here https://youtu.be/_qj8O07Kg_I?t=58 (1:00 and also notice the uptilt hit DK from the ground). But the thing I'm wondering the most is if it will be good for crossing up shields. He moves a good distance while the hitbox is active. This does not look prone to being shield grabbed. So that's a plus. This move might be way better than I thought.


Link to every move http://smashboards.com/threads/moveset-speculation-and-discussion-thread.426055/page-4#post-20630411

 

[OceloT42]

I never thought about down air like that. You may be onto something actually. So if the hits link into each other and never stop, that would be a crazy amount of damage if you were to start it from really high above the stage. Some stall and fall moves don't actually keep going all the way down. Bowser's on Palutena's Temple stops like half way down. I wonder if it's the same distance for all stall and fall moves. This really interests me now.

As for nair, don't be surprised if it's stupidly good. Cloud and Ryu have some stupidly good things that wouldn't make sense on paper for balancing purposes. Ryu with 2-3frame kill confirms at 60 and Cloud's dair and up air being ridiculous combo set ups and kill set ups.

Here is my semi pseudo tier list for Corrin's move (SPECULATION may I remind you)

1. Down tilt. Looks good for spacing and as a combo starter
2. Dragon Fang Shot. It stuns! The set ups will be very interesting. And has a bite after it.
3. Forward air. A good neutral tool. Who doesn't want that.
4. Nair looks good. Covers a lot of area. Looks like a potential combo starter like most nairs. It doesn't look like a get-out of-jail-free-card nair, but a tool to cover options very well.
5. Down throw. Potential Combo starter?
6. Upthrow. Potential Kill throw?
7. Dragon Lunge. Seems really good as a good move to punish people you've baited since it appears to come out really fast.
8. Forward smash. Looks good at punishing from a distance. Covers options with the hitbox it has when being charged. Looking like the ultimate Luma killer too
   
9. Bair. Kill move according to the trailer. Maybe good for spacing?
10. Up air. People are sleeping on this move. Falling up airs, if anything like Marth's or Lucina's, will be amazing as combo starters.
11. Up smash looks really good. Dunno if it has a hitbox on the side though. If it does, then it's looking really good. Has tipper. Gonna be killing people at 80 with it if it's anything like Sheik's or Marth's.
12. Jabs! Corrin's jabs actually look really good if you paid attention to it in the trailer. I see Jab 1,2 into something like grab of down tilt being a thing. Multi hit jab also looking great too.
13. Down air. Multi hit stall and fall. A first of its kind. Looking very interesting.
14. Forward tilt. Has very little knockback, but the angle it sends people at is kinda awkward. I don't see it having any guaranteed follow ups, but I do see it having set ups. Ftilt to dragon fang shot if they air dodge. If they are afraid of that option and people tend to jump then we can adapt and cover the jump option with something like dragon lunge or nair.
15. Up tilt. On big characters, it hits on both side as shown on DK in the trailer. Potential combo starter. Also has low knock back like ftilt.
16. The up b. Looks decent. At least it snaps to the ledge.
17. Down smash. A down smash. It seems pretty average in terms of down smashes. I wonder if there's a tipper on this one too.
18. Counter. A counter.
19. Foward and back throw we have no information on.

Other things:

• Trotting and extended dash dancing look great
• Jump height looks average
• Short hop looks good
• Air mobility I'm not sure about. Need more info

Edit:

Confirmed, down smash has a tipper behind Corrin. Notice the spark. Which is not shocking. Most down smashes, if not all, are stronger from the behind. It's also a dragon part, which makes it make even more sense.

You, my friend, have just summarized everything we discussed for 16 pages in one post.I'm proud of you.

 

[Gemzelda_ss]

have u talked about corrins utilt? someone posted a pic of it hitting some char and said it has disjointed hitboxes?

 

[LordShade67]

I never thought about down air like that. You may be onto something actually. So if the hits link into each other and never stop, that would be a crazy amount of damage if you were to start it from really high above the stage. Some stall and fall moves don't actually keep going all the way down. Bowser's on Palutena's Temple stops like half way down. I wonder if it's the same distance for all stall and fall moves. This really interests me now.

As for nair, don't be surprised if it's stupidly good. Cloud and Ryu have some stupidly good things that wouldn't make sense on paper for balancing purposes. Ryu with 2-3frame kill confirms at 60 and Cloud's dair and up air being ridiculous combo set ups and kill set ups.

Here is my semi pseudo tier list for Corrin's move (SPECULATION may I remind you)

1. Down tilt. Looks good for spacing and as a combo starter
2. Dragon Fang Shot. It stuns! The set ups will be very interesting. And has a bite after it.
3. Forward air. A good neutral tool. Who doesn't want that.
4. Nair looks good. Covers a lot of area. Looks like a potential combo starter like most nairs. It doesn't look like a get-out of-jail-free-card nair, but a tool to cover options very well. Potentially auto cancels or has very very small end lag.
5. Down throw. Potential combo throw?
6. Upthrow. Potential kill throw?
7. Dragon Lunge. Seems really good as a good move to punish people you've baited since it appears to come out really fast.
8. Forward smash. Looks good at punishing from a distance. Covers options with the hitbox it has when being charged. Looking like the ultimate Luma killer too
   
9. Bair. Kill move according to the trailer. Maybe good for spacing?
10. Up air. People are sleeping on this move. Falling up airs, if anything like Marth's or Lucina's, will be amazing as combo starters.
11. Up smash looks really good. Dunno if it has a hitbox on the side though. If it does, then it's looking really good. Has tipper. Gonna be killing people at 80 with it if it's anything like Sheik's or Marth's.
12. Jabs! Corrin's jabs actually look really good if you paid attention to it in the trailer. I see Jab 1,2 into something like grab of down tilt being a thing. Multi hit jab also looking great too.
13. Down air. Multi hit stall and fall. A first of its kind. Looking very interesting.
14. Forward tilt. Has very little knockback, but the angle it sends people at is kinda awkward. I don't see it having any guaranteed follow ups, but I do see it having set ups. Ftilt to dragon fang shot if they air dodge. If they are afraid of that option and people tend to jump then we can adapt and cover the jump option with something like dragon lunge or nair.
15. Up tilt. On big characters, it hits on both side as shown on DK in the trailer. Potential combo starter. Also has low knock back like ftilt.
16. The up b. Looks decent. At least it snaps to the ledge.
17. Down smash. A down smash. It seems pretty average in terms of down smashes. I wonder if there's a tipper on this one too.
18. Counter. A counter.
19. Foward and back throw we have no information on.

Other things:

• Trotting and extended dash dancing look great
• Jump height looks average
• Short hop looks good
• Air mobility I'm not sure about. Need more info

Edit:

Confirmed, down smash has a tipper behind Corrin. Notice the spark. Which is not shocking. Most down smashes, if not all, are stronger from the behind. It's also a dragon part, which makes it make even more sense.

Pretty solid. Except you forgot to add Dash Attack to the list.

 

[Zult]

You, my friend, have just summarized everything we discussed for 16 pages in one post.I'm proud of you.

Thank you, sir. Now I'm just waiting for LancerStaff to make the same list except with the negatives. Hopefully. As negative as he is, he's the yin to my yang. Curious to see how these moves can be potentially useless or not that useful.

Pretty solid. Except you forgot to add Dash Attack to the list.

You're right. I knew I was missing something.

 

[LordShade67]

Spoiler

Much better.

Oh. Right. Moveset speculation. Um......I also wouldn't be surprised if NAir ends up being good. Comes out fast, looks like it's got good hitbox coverage, but the curious thing for me is its hitstun and whether it's a single or multi-hit.

 

[Zult]

Spoiler

Much better.

Oh. Right. Moveset speculation. Um......I also wouldn't be surprised if NAir ends up being good. Comes out fast, looks like it's got good hitbox coverage, but the curious thing for me is its hitstun and whether it's a single or multi-hit.

It might work like Robin's. Usually hitting only once, but can potentially hit twice if something weird happens.

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Some things I noticed looking at Corrin for the billionth time because bored.

• Male Corrin Full Hop Nairs at 3:55 lands with some lag
• Link misses tech Male Corrin Jab 1 did not jab lock link (could be percent based) at 3:58
• Also at 3:58 Female Corrin acts out of up tilt early before going back to neutral stance?
• Link jumps out of jab 2 hit (What?)
• Female Corrin SH Bairs lands with lag 3:59
• Male Corrin SH Nairs lands with lag 4:01
• Female Corrin goes back to neutral stance before crouching after using Down tilt 4:01
• 4:02 Female Corrin Full hop Bairs lands with lag while Male Corrin Full hop Fairs and shields as soon as he lands (But looks like the IASA frames where awful)
• 4:10 Corrin bairs Shulk's Upsmash and they trade (IDK Corrin was kinda close to Shulk) no disjoint?
• He even lags after the trade
• 4:15 Female Corrin FH DFshots The charge does not stop momentum, but the shot itself does. (earlier at 3:55 can see same thing but also the dragon bite does not stop momentum and has alot of lag)

Might have missed things... Some things might have already been discovered. Also around 4:06 Corrin pins a platform then kicks and lands with no lag.

EDIT: If you cant watch frame by frame I advice you watch in slow mo .25

 

[Zult]

Some things I noticed looking at Corrin for the billionth time because bored.

• Male Corrin Full Hop Nairs at 3:55 lands with some lag
• Link misses tech Male Corrin Jab 1 did not jab lock link (could be percent based) at 3:58
• Also at 3:58 Female Corrin acts out of up tilt early before going back to neutral stance?
• Link jumps out of jab 2 hit (What?)
• Female Corrin SH Bairs lands with lag 3:59
• Male Corrin SH Nairs lands with lag 4:01
• Female Corrin goes back to neutral stance before crouching after using Down tilt 4:01
• 4:02 Female Corrin Full hop Bairs lands with lag while Male Corrin Full hop Fairs and shields as soon as he lands (But looks like the IASA frames where awful)
• 4:10 Corrin bairs Shulk's Upsmash and they trade (IDK Corrin was kinda close to Shulk) no disjoint?
• He even lags after the trade
• 4:15 Female Corrin FH DFshots The charge does not stop momentum, but the shot itself does. (earlier at 3:55 can see same thing but also the dragon bite does not stop momentum and has alot of lag)

Might have missed things... Some things might have already been discovered. Also around 4:06 Corrin pins a platform then kicks and lands with no lag.

EDIT: If you cant watch frame by frame I advice you watch in slow mo .25

Nice job. For Link jumping out of the jab combo, the Corrin delayed the third jab finisher for some reason. No way it's that slow. I noticed it yesterday when I was looking at Corrin's jabs.

 

[LancerStaff]

Wheat would you say are Corrin's pros then?

I think people are tired of me saying this but I'm not seeing much. I'm seeing a character that mostly throws out powerful, ranged, and laggy attacks that only works in FFAs like Zelda.

First dobble post ^^^^

Second bro if you compare character to sheik and zss OF COURSE they will look weak, you can't be "oh his side B is easy punished by Sheik's speed its a bad move" "oh his up B is open to ZSS down B its so bad" because those 2 are the top tiers, and of course Corrin will not be perfect, so TRY at least TRY to look in his positives points like"oh his side b will be good to cover rolls" "oh the bite will do a good shield damage so people will be scared to it""oh seems that his Upsmash have disjount so will be a good anti aerial" now we all need to focus in corrin STRONG points let the others find his weakness for now, because we all will know his weakness when he arrives, but his strong points is good to alredy have inmind

Somebody was saying that Dragon Lunge might be the anti ZSS/Sheik move... I'm fine with some optimism but you gotta admit that's a little ridiculous.

But if I'm right and reactionary roll > Usmash beats Dragon Lunge it's not going to be a very noteworthy option unless Samus gets buffed to top tier next patch... Especially if it can be shielded it wouldn't even be good against back rolls.

Can anyone compare the Fire Emblem character's range in comparision to his sword Yato?
That thing looks as big as Ragnell.
Also dtilt looks like it has hella IASA frames,though I might be wrong.

Ragnell's pretty small in this game. Pit, Marth, Ike and Cloud all have roughly the same amount of range on their attacks. Probably so none of them can outspace another.... Corrin will likely be similar or less for most normals.

The same way you preach about moves potentially not being good is the same way you should preach about moves that look bad. I don't think you've ever seen stall and fall moves used optimally. Just because you're not using it 50times a match doesn't mean it's bad.

No... Optimal use of stall then falls is to never use them. Anybody with a decently disjointed Uair (read: most characters) can beat out any stall then fall with proper spacing, and it's usually none too difficult outside of lag. Toon Link's for example (Corrin's looks similar, so it's probably beat in a similar way) is by just using a Uair off to the side. I suggest you mess around with it as Pit, considering the size and duration of his makes it easy. Even Wizard's Kick can be beat...

Thank you, sir. Now I'm just waiting for LancerStaff to make the same list except with the negatives. Hopefully. As negative as he is, he's the yin to my yang. Curious to see how these moves can be potentially useless or not that useful.

*shrugs* If you say so...

Dtilt looks good, although it kinda has to be. Dtilts are typically a character's resident safe poke, and typically a solid move anyway. Same deal with Nair, although that's usually by being a characters largest and/or fastest aerial.

Specials I think I've talked about enough. Throws and most aerials are really hard to talk about without proper frame data. Smashes are smashes.

Dash attack looks like shield fodder. Well, moreso then usual anyway. May be fast (ours is f7, jab and Dsmash were f5 BTW) but without a body hitbox I don't think it'll be safe at all. See, besides frame data a move's shield safety is determined by damage, and solely the damage of the last hit on shield. Pit's does a hearty 11% and is decently safe when properly spaced for example. Unless the first hit does like 25% or something ridiculous that's definitely not going to be safe because there's the rest of the move to sit through. Since multihits usually consist of weaker hits you're going to have to space for the back end of the move, but also not too much or you'll just be shield grabbed. (So no, you won't be able to use it like Pit's at all. Not saying it's as bad as Marth's though.) Some other quick thoughts is that it may not be anything special against spot dodges if it moves too fast, and if the individual hits are too far appart then you can get shield grabbed mid move.

Judging from Kreep3r's finds, jab doesn't look particularly reliable and the Bair trade looks like something that should be looked into... Not going to say much more about that until we get a closer look.

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

No... Optimal use of stall then falls is to never use them.

This is the only thing i don't agree with. Especially after G3 where the top players have started implementing Dive kicks (A.K.A stall then falls) in high level play. 6WX kinda started the Dive kick to read the air dodge after using spring. I think the meta is still evolving with stall then falls.

 

[Patriot Duck]

Considering Corrin's dair is a multi-hit, you may be able to drag your opponent down to the blast zone. It's nothing to write home about, but it'll certainly look funny.

 

[ARGHETH]

This is the only thing i don't agree with. Especially after G3 where the top players have started implementing Dive kicks (A.K.A stall then falls) in high level play. 6WX kinda started the Dive kick to read the air dodge after using spring. I think the meta is still evolving with stall then falls.

They're still getting used maybe once or twice per match on average; they're moves that are good in very specific situations. ZSS/Sheik's dive kicks aren't very good relative to their movesets, which is the same as a lot of other divekicks. Marss used it vs Nairo and got punished big for a lot of them.
The problem with dive kicks are that they have an incredibly predictable trajectory and often have lag after they hit the ground.

Considering Corrin's dair is a multi-hit, you may be able to drag your opponent down to the blast zone. It's nothing to write home about, but it'll certainly look funny.

Sort of like spiking with TL's Dair offstage...it's sort of a "you're coming with me!" thing.

 

[Zult]

I think people are tired of me saying this but I'm not seeing much. I'm seeing a character that mostly throws out powerful, ranged, and laggy attacks that only works in FFAs like Zelda.



Somebody was saying that Dragon Lunge might be the anti ZSS/Sheik move... I'm fine with some optimism but you gotta admit that's a little ridiculous.

But if I'm right and reactionary roll > Usmash beats Dragon Lunge it's not going to be a very noteworthy option unless Samus gets buffed to top tier next patch... Especially if it can be shielded it wouldn't even be good against back rolls.



Ragnell's pretty small in this game. Pit, Marth, Ike and Cloud all have roughly the same amount of range on their attacks. Probably so none of them can outspace another.... Corrin will likely be similar or less for most normals.



No... Optimal use of stall then falls is to never use them. Anybody with a decently disjointed Uair (read: most characters) can beat out any stall then fall with proper spacing, and it's usually none too difficult outside of lag. Toon Link's for example (Corrin's looks similar, so it's probably beat in a similar way) is by just using a Uair off to the side. I suggest you mess around with it as Pit, considering the size and duration of his makes it easy. Even Wizard's Kick can be beat...



*shrugs* If you say so...

Dtilt looks good, although it kinda has to be. Dtilts are typically a character's resident safe poke, and typically a solid move anyway. Same deal with Nair, although that's usually by being a characters largest and/or fastest aerial.

Specials I think I've talked about enough. Throws and most aerials are really hard to talk about without proper frame data. Smashes are smashes.

Dash attack looks like shield fodder. Well, moreso then usual anyway. May be fast (ours is f7, jab and Dsmash were f5 BTW) but without a body hitbox I don't think it'll be safe at all. See, besides frame data a move's shield safety is determined by damage, and solely the damage of the last hit on shield. Pit's does a hearty 11% and is decently safe when properly spaced for example. Unless the first hit does like 25% or something ridiculous that's definitely not going to be safe because there's the rest of the move to sit through. Since multihits usually consist of weaker hits you're going to have to space for the back end of the move, but also not too much or you'll just be shield grabbed. (So no, you won't be able to use it like Pit's at all. Not saying it's as bad as Marth's though.) Some other quick thoughts is that it may not be anything special against spot dodges if it moves too fast, and if the individual hits are too far appart then you can get shield grabbed mid move.

Judging from Kreep3r's finds, jab doesn't look particularly reliable and the Bair trade looks like something that should be looked into... Not going to say much more about that until we get a closer look.

About the stall and fall dair. Ofcourse it can be beat. Anything in this game can be beat when it's expected. That's like saying why throw out attacks ever if the other person can just block. The point is the use of it as a mix up and catch your opponent off guard.

Everything else I somehwat agree on.