Moveset Speculation and Discussion Thread

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Stall-then-falls are only ever (extremely) situational unless your name is Sonic after a Spring jump.

I don't see why we're so preoccupied with Kamui's Dair.

Because disjointed dair = Great landing tool. It has multihit and a groud hitbox so yeah could even be safe on shield... we shall see.

 

[Deleted member]

Because disjointed dair = Great landing tool. It has multihit and a groud hitbox so yeah could even be safe on shield... we shall see.

Link has a very disjointed Dair, but I don't land with it ever because it has a ton of landing lag.

A Disjointed Dair doesn't automatically equal a good landing tool.

And in most cases even moves with landing hitboxes can be easily punished if the player is just patient enough to wait out the last hit.

I still assert that it will be rather situational, why risk running the Dair into shield when you can just jump away and escape or jump and space a safer aerial on shield?

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Link has a very disjointed Dair, but I don't land with it ever because it has a ton of landing lag.

A Disjointed Dair doesn't automatically equal a good landing tool.

And in most cases even moves with landing hitboxes can be easily punished if the player is just patient enough to wait out the last hit.

I still assert that it will be rather situational, why risk running the Dair into shield when you can just jump away and escape or jump and space a safer aerial on shield?

Link's dair is 3x slower than Corrin's. Toon link is a better example to compare because they are some what same speed(We don't have frame data yet). On whiff Link's Dair is bad, but on shield or hit it's actually really good. Disjointed Dairs can counter juggling up airs and that's what makes them good options. Like i said Corrin's is also a multi-hit... which i believe is the only multi hit stall and fall in the game or maybe Bowser's does too? (Correct me if i'm wrong)?

So we don't know if the multi-hit is an animation in its self which only occurs at the start of the Dair or if its all the way through. It's a very interesting move because it adds a new dynamic to stall and falls. As i said earlier "Well if Corrin's Dair is disjointed and auto cancels"... if it doesn't auto cancel it's not worth. So it could potentially be a Sonic Auto cancel Dair with multihit and disjoint. Which would be an insane aerial.

Edit: Also checked dairs and Corrin's is the only multi-hit... If you watch gif or trailer frame by frame you can see Corrin hit the smash ball 5 times 1 being the landing hit. The landing hit looks the same as Toon Link's hard land with the green and yellow sparks. Toon Link's dair on shield pushes you away from the landing hit. Corrin's will potentially lock you into to shield for 4-5 hits before the hard landing hit which if like TL's will do 4-5 damage.

Tl:dr New type of stall and fall technically. Move shows great potential until we fully understand how it functions.

 

[ARGHETH]

Edit: Also checked dairs and Corrin's is the only multi-hit... If you watch gif or trailer frame by frame you can see Corrin hit the smash ball 5 times 1 being the landing hit. The landing hit looks the same as Toon Link's hard land with the green and yellow sparks. Toon Link's dair on shield pushes you away from the landing hit. Corrin's will potentially lock you into to shield for 4-5 hits before the hard landing hit which if like TL's will do 4-5 damage.

TL's Dair is bad, though. TL needs like a year to pull his sword out. He doesn't really use it unless FG or trying to spike someone on the ledge

Link's dair is 3x slower than Corrin's. Toon link is a better example to compare because they are some what same speed(We don't have frame data yet). On whiff Link's Dair is bad, but on shield or hit it's actually really good. Disjointed Dairs can counter juggling up airs and that's what makes them good options. Like i said Corrin's is also a multi-hit... which i believe is the only multi hit stall and fall in the game or maybe Bowser's does too? (Correct me if i'm wrong)?

Multi-hit is great...but it's still a TL-ish Dair, so if it's like his (but + multihit), it probably won't be very good.
Dairs in general in this game are bad.

 

[LancerStaff]

I think the hitbox ends just a tiny bit behind his head since that's about where the swords blur ends and the rest is endlag.

You can't trust hitbox trails in Smash 4. Pit for example, (You play the character right?) his Ftilt is literally a ball of janky hitboxes. Yaknow, the scissors motion. Top sword literally doesn't have a hitbox, trails look like it start on f6 but only comes out on f10, and for some reason is a gigantic rectangle covering the entire swing of the bottom blade for 3 or 4 frames. (Pit's good so you never hear about his hitbox issues lmao.)

For a more recent example, Cloud. Nair's tip doesn't exist, Fair has a giant deadzone on top and looks like it comes out two frames earlier, and Bair's just weird in general. (There's probably a lot more, but again, Cloud's good so nobody notices.

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Okay Corrin's dair is basically Bowser Jr's multi-hit with TL's hard landing hit box. Probably the 3rd time I've said this if this move auto cancels then it's godlike if not then it's subpar. But this move should not be brushed aside. A lot Zss and sheik players use their dairs actually. And a disjointed dair can challenge up smashes. Yes TL dair is awful... was only comparing fall speed and ground hitbox. Corrin's looks faster on start and possibly less lag since no sword stuck animation since Corrin's uses their legs. Last a lot people drop shield way to early on multi-hits or forget ground hit boxes nobody is perfect.

 

[Gemzelda_ss]

Okay Corrin's dair is basically Bowser Jr's multi-hit with TL's hard landing hit box. Probably the 3rd time I've said this if this move auto cancels then it's godlike if not then it's subpar. But this move should not be brushed aside. A lot Zss and sheik players use their dairs actually. And a disjointed dair can challenge up smashes. Yes TL dair is awful... was only comparing fall speed and ground hitbox. Corrin's looks faster on start and possibly less lag since no sword stuck animation since Corrin's uses their legs. Last a lot people drop shield way to early on multi-hits or forget ground hit boxes nobody is perfect.

I've always asked myself since he can act out of it really fast if its a combo starter, which would be extremely cool since im thinking no other air is a combo starter (except mario and peach i guess)

 

[ARGHETH]

A lot Zss and sheik players use their dairs actually.

A lot of ZSS and Sheik players do, yes. But how often do, say, Nairo and ZeRo (or Nick Riddle, or Vinnie, etc) use it?

im thinking no other air is a combo starter (except mario and peach i guess)

But plenty of other aerials are combo starters...

I'm guessing it's going to be a meh move. Looks decent enough for its type, but I don't see it being very good.

 

[OceloT42]

Because disjointed dair = Great landing tool. It has multihit and a groud hitbox so yeah could even be safe on shield... we shall see.

I might be wrong but it looks to me as if he finishes the move just before he strikes the ground.
He hits the smashball 3 times
HALF LIFE 3 CONFIRMED

 

[False Sense]

I might be wrong but it looks to me as if he finishes the move just before he strikes the ground.

It's extremely difficult to accurately judge due to the flash of the Smash Ball. But more importantly, he clearly is still suffering from landing lag.

Also...

He hits the smashball 3 times
HALF LIFE 3 CONFIRMED

This sort of thing isn't appropriate here.

 

[OceloT42]

It's extremely difficult to accurately judge due to the flash of the Smash Ball. But more importantly, he clearly is still suffering from landing lag.

Also...



This sort of thing isn't appropriate here.

but y ;_;

 

[OceloT42]

I have a gut feeling Corrin's dair is just toon link 2.0

 

[Zult]

His dair looks pretty fast for a stall and fall. But yeah, I would not just totally ignore his dair. Just because you're not usually it as much as sheik's fair doesn't mean it's worthless. If anyone is planning to be a good Corrin, they better start learning how to implement everything and not just "omg side b pins ppl, picking him up for sure". The frame data looks good for a stall and fall so we shall see.

Anyways I have been having random thoughts about Corrin again. If someone misses a tech, you could charge a fsmash to cover the roll in with the hitbox you get in the front for charging a fsmash. Stand up, roll away, and get up attack can be punished by just timing and releasing the fsmash. Also charging a dragon fang shot might cover some options too. If they roll away they get stunned, if they roll in and dodge the shot they get hit with the bite. Missing a tech against Corrin will be painful.

Falling up airs as combo starters. Given how similar uair looks compared to Lucina's and Marth's, I've been playing around with Marth and Lucina a bit. Fast fall uairs are great for starting things. I can imagine falling uair > utilt at low percents and possibly more if utilt has follow ups.

If his bair is like Rob's, then it's gonna greatly help his mobility.

Oh, and also guys, please stop judging moves based off for glory players.

I feel like this character is going to be great at covering options when played correctly.

 

[OceloT42]

That back air is majestic af.I believe in its power.

 

[LancerStaff]

Not really seeing how his Dair is fast in startup or endlag... That, and I don't think they're going to make a noob killer even better. Sonic's is the only safe one, and besides that Bowser's Dspecial is the only other good one because it kills shields. This doesn't appear to have either.

 

[OceloT42]

Not really seeing how his Dair is fast in startup or endlag... That, and I don't think they're going to make a noob killer even better. Sonic's is the only safe one, and besides that Bowser's Dspecial is the only other good one because it kills shields. This doesn't appear to have either.

What do you think about Batman's....I mean Corrin's bair?

 

[free33]

What if dragon lunge spikes in the air diagonally like ryu's dair? There could be some awesome setups like stun to side b or just use its angel to spike people trying to grab the ledge. Whatever it is, I'm hype for it

 

[LancerStaff]

What do you think about Batman's....I mean Corrin's bair?

If it's powerful it's going to be laggy as heck, like ROB's. If it's safe on shield, there's going to be some serious startup. (Like f12 or something...) If it's got low startup and is safe on shield it's probably only going to be safe up close either by making the edge just a windbox or by it being stronger at the base.

Honestly, I'm more inclined to think it's going to go down the powerful but slow route and end up being useless in neutral, probably by having a fastish FAF but a late autocancel. Basically it means you could spam it in the air but if you tried to SH it you'll be hit with lag no matter what. Even if you tried to get a pre-hitbox autocancel with a different aerial the game mechanics will just "nope" you and you'll be hit with lag anyway like with Roy and his Fair.

 

[Deleted member]

It looks like Corrin's dair ends a couple less frame before Toon Link's dair.

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

A lot of ZSS and Sheik players do, yes. But how often do, say, Nairo and ZeRo (or Nick Riddle, or Vinnie, etc) use it?

Most of them use it quite often. Some even short hop Dair'd into shield to try and hit people with the landing hitbox. Even Nairo Dairs after he down-Bs sometimes to catch his opponents off guard. Pretty sure if Zss ans shiek's Dairs were disjointed they would see more use, but they are not disjointed so trading with a up air or up smash is not ideal. G&W's dair usage could be a better comparison.

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

It looks like Corrin's dair ends a couple less frame before Toon Link's dair.

Hey can you replicate Bowser jr hitting a Smash ball with dair on battlefield... I failed miserably.

 

[OceloT42]

It looks like Corrin's dair ends a couple less frame before Toon Link's dair.

this better be the dair of legends

 

[False Sense]

this better be the dair of legends

Cloud already claimed that title.

Corrin's D-Air doesn't appear to be anything spectacular. Looks to be a punishable move with limited utility.

 

[LordShade67]

It's probably a good move by divekick(Forgive me. I dislike the term Stall-Then-Fall) standards. But best DAir?Heck no. That's Cloud's thing.

 

[Gemzelda_ss]

ok but did anyone notice how in FD corrin vs WFT corrin does a roll from the ledge to a perfectly spaced angled down side smash..... now im thinking that this can be used because this would mean corrins roll = perfectly spaced side smash and could really be useful info when wanting to punish someone trying to grab the ledge twice?

 

[meleebrawler]

It looks like Corrin's dair ends a couple less frame before Toon Link's dair.

Man, the shockwave covers up the feet shifting back. It's hard to tell if he actually stabs the ground.

 

[Pedker]

So I was brainstorming, and I came up with a pretty interesting idea.

Since Corrin has the first counter that launches vertically, would this give Corrin an advantage over Sheik? Think about it: when Sheik tries her D-throw to U-air at high percents as a kill mixup, Corrin might be able to completely replace the option of airdodging with his counter. If he predicts right, not only does he survive, like airdodging would do, but he also might kill Sheik at the same time. If he gets predicted, he gets the same outcome as if Sheik read an airdodge, and he'd simply die. This might add another layer to the rock-paper-scissors mechanic of Sheik's kill setup, in Corrin's favor. Best case scenario, Sheik players might stop attempting this at all versus Corrins in fear of dying off the top.

Does this sound plausible? Thoughts?

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Man, the shockwave covers up the feet shifting back. It's hard to tell if he actually stabs the ground.

It starts at 31:36 in final presentation trailer. If you watch in slow mo or can watch frame by frame... as soon as Corrin hits the ground his/her legs go back to normal.

 

[OceloT42]

So I was brainstorming, and I came up with a pretty interesting idea.

Since Corrin has the first counter that launches vertically, would this give Corrin an advantage over Sheik? Think about it: when Sheik tries her D-throw to U-air at high percents as a kill mixup, Corrin might be able to completely replace the option of airdodging with his counter. If he predicts right, not only does he survive, like airdodging would do, but he also might kill Sheik at the same time. If he gets predicted, he gets the same outcome as if Sheik read an airdodge, and he'd simply die. This might add another layer to the rock-paper-scissors mechanic of Sheik's kill setup, in Corrin's favor. Best case scenario, Sheik players might stop attempting this at all versus Corrins in fear of dying off the top.

Does this sound plausible? Thoughts?

I think someone mentioned chasing them up high and baiting an air attack, countering then will send them up into the air for a KO.
I'm a bit concerned about its multiplier.I hope it's at least as powerful as Marth's.

 

[LancerStaff]

It looks like Corrin's dair ends a couple less frame before Toon Link's dair.

Is that from the same trailer? If it's not then you'd have to make sure both videos were recorded at the same FPS...

Although I guess it's not very unreasonable for it to be that fast.

So I was brainstorming, and I came up with a pretty interesting idea.

Since Corrin has the first counter that launches vertically, would this give Corrin an advantage over Sheik? Think about it: when Sheik tries her D-throw to U-air at high percents as a kill mixup, Corrin might be able to completely replace the option of airdodging with his counter. If he predicts right, not only does he survive, like airdodging would do, but he also might kill Sheik at the same time. If he gets predicted, he gets the same outcome as if Sheik read an airdodge, and he'd simply die. This might add another layer to the rock-paper-scissors mechanic of Sheik's kill setup, in Corrin's favor. Best case scenario, Sheik players might stop attempting this at all versus Corrins in fear of dying off the top.

Does this sound plausible? Thoughts?

You'd have to counter the very final hit to get any significant knockback. Anything else and you'll deal like 5% and barely launch her.

Well actually, I was wondering if it was just going to deal knockback and damage like a normal attack would instead of a multiplier. If it's a multiplier then it's another thing that he'll have to rely on in FFAs judging from the size of the attack...

 

[G-Guy]

hey guys, can I mention something I recently noticed about Neutral B?

By the looks of it, it seems to airstall Corrin, givin' him more mix-up options in his recovery. For further proof, check out the short scene at 6:48 in the final smash presentation

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1JERhUoQoU

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Why does this look like an amazing approach option. Sounds so bad to use a grouded side B, but idk.

 

[Deleted member]

Is that from the same trailer? If it's not then you'd have to make sure both videos were recorded at the same FPS...

Trailer is 30fps. Replays are 30fps. I wouldn't make a comparison and post it here if the framerates were not the same.

 

[OceloT42]

Why does this look like an amazing approach option. Sounds so bad to use a grouded side B, but idk.

It's because you can pretty much go anywhere from there, at high speed.
Pinned your opponent? Kick them in the face! Didn't pin your rival? Retreat! Grounded and some is approaching you? Jump the hell away! Hanging around for the kicks(pun intended)? Cancel!

 

[meowmere]

Just as a quick reminder, February arrives in less than two weeks! Crazy how fast time goes by.
So far, Corrin seems like a cool character to me. But you know what would be even more amazing? If you could do some strong kill set-ups with his up-b. Like down throw into up-b. This will most likely not happen, though, as your opponent will probably be knocked away to the side, and not upwards. Another reason killing with this move will surely not be a good option is its startup, which is huge. A few pages earlier, someone posted a gif of Corrin's up-b on the Umbra Clock Tower stage, if you want to see this move in action (we also found out that it clips to the ledge, which is a big plus).

 

[Zult]

Just as a quick reminder, February arrives in less than two weeks! Crazy how fast time goes by.
So far, Corrin seems like a cool character to me. But you know what would be even more amazing? If you could do some strong kill set-ups with his up-b. Like down throw into up-b. This will most likely not happen, though, as your opponent will probably be knocked away to the side, and not upwards. Another reason killing with this move will surely not be a good option is its startup, which is huge. A few pages earlier, someone posted a gif of Corrin's up-b on the Umbra Clock Tower stage, if you want to see this move in action (we also found out that it clips to the ledge, which is a big plus).

http://smashboards.com/threads/moveset-speculation-and-discussion-thread.426055/page-7#post-20676863

The gfycat http://gfycat.com/HonorableGratefulFlatcoatretriever

 

[Zult]

Earlier in this thread, people were talking about Nintendo editing out that smoke rage effect you get when you're over 100%. Well, not true because here is an example https://youtu.be/j1JERhUoQoU?t=1423

This leads me to believe that back air killing below 100 at the edge and the bite from the dragon fang shot killing at the edge below 100 is entirely possible.

 

[alguidrag]

Thanks bayoneta, now we have more chances of have 2 good kill moves
(Hey only i think that bayoneta was more complete than Kamui in the trailer? Like they show everything about her)

 

[Gemzelda_ss]

Ofc they would show more bayo, its bayo!
anyway since corrins side smash has a hitbox active while charging and if an opponent gets caught in it you get a guaranteed side smash (no tipper) i think that this would probably mean that getting a non tippered side smash with corrin won't really do anything in terms of damage and knockback... still tho like the concept of having a hitbox while charging.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't mean to be rude but, the amount of double posting I've seen from some people in this thread is more than ridiculous.

You know who you are, and I hope you also know that you can just use the edit button to add stuff to your post, hell I know some of you are aware of the edit button because I've seen you edit your posts and yet you still double post at times anyways.

It really isn't that hard to just not do it, considering it's one of the basic things prohibited under the "No Spam" category in the Global Rules.

I mean obviously it sometimes happens by accident, I've even done it a few times in the past when I wasn't paying attention, but I think it goes without saying that it's easy to avoid doing it as long as you're not being, well, completely ignorant.

You do all realize that Double Posting is an infractable action, I hope? Yeah a lot of the time if you do it once by accident you'll just get off with a warning and a mod post edit/consolidation, but there are some repeat offenses that have happened in this thread alone at such a frequency that personally I think they would be worth an infraction or two, and once again you know who you are.

Of course I'm not a mod so it's not my place to make the final call, but at the very least as a courtesy to other users can the chronic double posters in here just STOP double posting? It's not difficult.

Just because there haven't been posts within the last 10 minutes doesn't mean you can double post, just use the edit button.

There's been some cringeworthy off-topic spam that's happened in here too, and that's even worse than the double posting, I don't know why some of you think it's acceptable to do that, because it isn't.

Feel free to get upset about this (tbh I won't care), but I feel this sort of "call-out" (for lack of a better term, albeit technically digressing from the subject of this thread) was justified considering some of the bad, and frankly inexcusable posting habits which have been plaguing this thread as of late.

Obligatory Smashboards Global Rules plug because it's relevant.