Moveset Discussion: Ftilt

[DanGR]

This will be a move discussion. I won't update this OP or anything. It's just a place to talk about Olimar's attacks. I'm just hoping that you guys might learn a thing or two. Not anything game breaking. I'll change the move when I think we're done discussing it or it gets too boring or something. idk.

Move: ftilt

Past discussion:
Fsmash- pg 1-1
Dsmash- pg 1-2
Dtilt- pg 2-4
Uptilt- pg4-6
Ftilt- pg 6+

 

[BlackWaltzX]

It has two parts of attack. Weak and strong.
First, weak. It has technically more range as it's the part furthest away (while they fall down). This part of the attack does less damage, but it has secondary uses. One of them is it can hit people holding onto the ledge (Shiek is a good example). Next, it has the ability to TRIP opponents. This is obviously the part you want to hit on if you need the kill.
Now for the strong hit. It's simplistic. It hits the enemy, does damage and pushes them away. The only thing to add is that it hits slightly behind you in a cone.


-Important- While you charge your smashes, they act as shields.

 

[Excellence]

Fsmash is VERY good when someone is within grab range. It can be chained together for three quick hits when you start the chain with a Yellow Pikmin. Forward Smash -> Forward Smash (opponent usually trips/kneels) -> Forward Smash then Spam them to come forward again and it's usually via air this time. That's when you start teching Uairs and pivot grabbing.

 

[asob4]

the weak hit is perfect for comboing! :D
dthrow > fair > weak fsmash > dthrow > fair :D
or the ever so popular
dthrow > fsmash > dthrow > fsmash

great for spacing
retreating fair > fsmash spaces so well and stuns for a grab or to pluck

 

[Barge]

It usually Kos around 90-120% excluding whites, and around 80 with purples I believe

 

[asob4]

mine is always decayed to all hell so i don't even try to kill with it :/

 

[Olimarman]

mine is always decayed to all hell so i don't even try to kill with it :/

Usually the same for me. Oli's fsmash has too many uses than to save it for koing, especially because he has plenty of other koing options. Occasionly though I do get a kill with a red or a blue if I let their damage get a little high.

 

[Rocann]

fair to fsmash over and over and over again is fun times

I don't really use it that much

 

[DanGR]

I like Olimar's dsmash for its speed on the hitbox on his backside. Ganon would kill for something that awesome. Also, sweetspotted double purple dsmashes do like 25+%

 

[Barge]

I found it to be good as a spacer, and Sometimes they hit both pikmin :D doing double damage.

 

[asob4]

horizontal knockback = too good :D

 

[BlackWaltzX]

Usually they don't DI up, this will make them feel the hurt if they are at 70% or more.
Especially for people who fast fall.

This works greath with nair -> downsmash
OR
Dthrow, fair, dtilt charged downsmash (The charge is because most people dodge after the downthrow)

 

[Snail]

I use Dsmash a lot after rolls or when I'm simply not aware of whatever my opponent is doing. Works fantastic for getting opponents off your face, it can KO, deal a lot of damage and the hit on both sides is a life saver. I love the move :D

 

[TheWii]

I love dsmash, I mostly use it when my opponent is close or behind me.

 

[Graz69]

the dsmash is really good right after a sidestep bc its quick

but for koing i like to use his up smash

 

[SuSa]

If you only have 1 pikmin, the dmsash will send the pikmin towards the direction you are facing. (meaning facing left shoots that pikmin left) <:

I try to NEVER decay this move, as this and fsmash are my only "trustworthy" killers because I decay my usmash like hell to juggle and combo.

I need to get my 40-50 matches as Duomin up :\ stupid fail internet...

 

[Barge]

A dsmash has small lag, and comes out quick, but isnt as powerful as fsmash and usmash

 

[Excellence]

DSmash is quite powerful and my KO move of choice. The raw damage it can rack up when hitting with two Pikmin silmultaneously is too good to pass up. Not to mention, when ledgeguarding people will roll it's a given. It's also a given that you'll Dsmash and kill them or send them flying toward the other ledge and offstage. Seldom do I KO with UpSmash.

 

[DanGR]

I need to get my 40-50 matches as Duomin up :\ stupid fail internet...

I'm lookin forward to it.

A dsmash has small lag, and comes out quick, but isnt as powerful as fsmash and usmash

I thought dsmash was stronger. :O Maybe it's because I use fsmash for spacing too often, so it's diminished down to nothin. It helps with stringing together dthrows though.

My usually kills are with throws, purple upsmashes, or edgeguarding in that order. Against my friend's characters that I play often, he's much less susceptible to the upsmash kills than most people I play in tourney. I wonder why.

 

[OlimarFan]

Against my friend's characters that I play often, he's much less susceptible to the upsmash kills than most people I play in tourney. I wonder why.

Because he's played against you very often, so he's more wary of U-Smashes?

 

[Kyas]

Purples can be particularly vicious with dsmash, since they have significantly greater knockback while still moving as fast and far as any other pikmin.

And I don't think that fsmash is more powerful...
anyone have data proving this?

 

[Snail]

I think Dsmash is stronger... But even if it isn't, the angle is really nasty so it's better at KOing than Fsmash in my opinion :D

 

[Barge]

Well maybe its just me, But I often use usmash and fsmash to kill, dsmash just doesnt seem to have as much kb to me.

 

[Puddin]

As useful as a Dsmash that goes to both sides instantly is, it's priority isn't that great but it's speed slightly makes up for that. Not my favorite of Olimars moves. (my favorite being Utilt because noobs get trapped by it)

 

[CALOZ]

IMO its stronger when two pikmins hit him. But i say the upsmash is the KO for me

 

[DanGR]

Because he's played against you very often, so he's more wary of U-Smashes?

maybe. yeah, I guess grabs are just easier to land in general anyways.

IMO its stronger when two pikmins hit him. But i say the upsmash is the KO for me

Yeah, I'm very sure a sweetspotted dsmash is stronger than any fsmash.

edit:
Anyways, I absolutely love the combo potential of dtilt. Sometimes it can be used during your dthrow racking game to sort of "pop" them up into the air for further pownage. It doesn't work v Luigi like, at all. His nair is just too good. >_< Also, I found that it clanks with MK's dash attack. sometimes it'll catch them offguard and you'll be able to upsmash or dsmash after the clank. I can't stress enough how great a move it is.

 

[asob4]

you can ctach people on the ledge with it and then dair/fair after said dtilt
plus the zori combo :D

 

[OlimarFan]

Well maybe its just me, But I often use usmash and fsmash to kill, dsmash just doesnt seem to have as much kb to me.

It's true that U-Smash and F-Smash have more Knockback than D-Smash, but D-Smash is still a great killer.

I typically use D-Smash after a dodge.
Dodge-D-Smash

 

[Barge]

I dont use dtilt much, but It does do good KB, I should incoorperate dtilt into my brawling more often. Anyways, its teh w0rm. And its one of Olimars best ranged attacks (Without pikmin)

 

[Puddin]

It's true that U-Smash and F-Smash have more Knockback than D-Smash, but D-Smash is still a great killer.

I typically use D-Smash after a dodge.
Dodge-D-Smash

Who doesn't spot dodge to Dsmash? All my friends do it every five seconds of a match because one of my friends started doing it with Metaknight so now it's all they know how to do.

 

[RichBrown]

you can ctach people on the ledge with it and then dair/fair after said dtilt
plus the zori combo :D

the zori combo is actually when zori wins. you are thinking about the worm combo. :D

Dtilt is one of 2 moves I really wish I knew how to use effectively, i hardly use it. It's good in the middle of a Dthrow combo starting at 0%, dthrow->Fair->Dtilt->dthrow->etc. Other than that, I haven't found much use for it, although I'm sure it can be effective.

 

[OlimarFan]

Purples can be particularly vicious with dsmash, since they have significantly greater knockback while still moving as fast and far as any other pikmin.

And I don't think that fsmash is more powerful...
anyone have data proving this?

Yep, have a look at NC-Echo's table

 

[asob4]

dtilt should replace the grab and it should be f/dair after it then a grab

 

[Zori]

Dtilt nair
Dtilt Dtilt jab
Dtilt Dtilt Uptilt
Dtilt Dtilt Any smash attack
dthrow forward smash Dtilt Dtilt up smash


Downtilt can spike on the ledge.
Downtilt can trap fastfallers like fox falco and wolf longer then normal characters.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmUZML7tHjI speed up to about 50 seconds.

 

[Dotcom]

Zori when you Dtilt on the fastfallers like Wolf do you have to space it abit to keep theDtilt connecting or is it just worming.

 

[Zori]

good point, there is a different spacing for them but im not sure what it is :/.

 

[RichBrown]

holy cow, i had no idea it spiked on the ledge haha. leave it to zori to know everything about the worm ^_^

ian: so ur saying dthrow-fair-dtilt-dtilt-fair/dair-grab? never tried it, definitely gonna give it a whirl later.

 

[DanGR]

Everytime I've attack people on the ledge with dtilt, it just flips them up. :O

^It doesn't work on characters with fast aerial attacks other than the spacies. It works on most of the heavies and the spacies for just a couple dtilts, but nothing more.

 

[RichBrown]

good to know, thnx dan. It's decent to use Dtilt if you keep doing the Dthrow-Fair combo. itll get your opponent to start air dodging, and if they don't DI away you can probably catch them in a Dtilt. although then again in that situation I'd probably pivot grab. blah I'll have to play with it.

why must I not have a Wii -_-

 

[Zori]

ZOMG breaking news Dtilt > jigs roll out at full power!!!!!!!!!!!!

that is all.