I'm sorry, but I've got to disagree. Ness's aerials are superior in terms of duration and recovery. Lucas's forward aerial may have a disjointed hitbox, but it's not nearly pronounced enough to match Ness's. His back aerial is good, but difficut to hit with, as is his up aerial. Bottom line, when I rely heavily on Lucas's aerials, I get hit, whereas when I rely on Ness's, they get hit. To me, that pretty much proves the point. I'll try to use Lucas's air combat more and give you the benefit of the doubt, but I haven't exactly been underusing them now. His neutral aerial is fantastic for comboing--but for comboing near the ground, which is where I think Lucas is more comfortable. You've also give Ness's forward aerial credit for its ability to combo easily into things like grabs, yoyos or an up tilt. Lucas's aerials combo well into ground-based attacks, whereas Ness's aerials chain repeatedly into each other. I don't see how I could be overemphasizing Ness's aerial superiority when it's simply what the character does the best, and I don't see Lucas even coming close.
Funny. I hadn't read this, and so it's saying exactly what I said above. In my general descriptions I may be overemphasizing his keep away game as you say. However in the character strategy section I cover several combos. Most of these ultimately get the opponent away from him, but I'm not trying to say he can't combo. Comparing Lucas's nair to Ness's aerials seems kind of an odd comparison, however. It combos well into ground attacks, yes. But virtually every aerial of Ness's is a combo move into another.
Personally, I find Ness's headbutt and spike VERY easy to kill with, although is back air is the best. The neutral air doesn't have great killing power; they've reduced this from melee. Still, if you compare Ness's options to Lucas's, I still believe that he has a wider array of reliable killing moves. Lucas's spikes are much more difficult to land, and the Ness's ability to KO reliably from three angles in the air beats out Lucas's ability to kill dubiously from two, in my opinion.
Lucas's forward smash is fantastic. Can't disagree with you there. However, I see it as the exception the rule. Most of Lucas's killers are difficult to hit with, and even his bat has short range. As for throws ... I see Ness's back throw killing much sooner than Lucas's throws. I kill with Lucas's back throw at about 130%, but that's only when my opponent DI's that way. Here's my basis for comparison: Ness's killing moves are his back throw, his bat, his back aerial, his headbutt, his down aerial, his forward throw (very situational). Most of these are quite simple to hit with; you grab someone when they're above 120% or so, and you know they're done for. You tap someone with that quick back kick in the same range, and you know they're a goner. Lucas's are his up smash, down smash, forward smash, his back aerial down aerial and up aerial, and his back throw. His up and down smash are difficult to place and require predicting the enemy. His forward smash is his most reliable killer, but still has quite short range. His back and down aerial require very, very careful placement which is easily influenced by the opponent's evasion (much more so than say, Ness's down air), and his back throw only seems to kill when opponents allow it to. At very high percentages, his forward tilt and forward aerial can kill, but again, I don't consider those very reliable since you have to get their damage so high. Looking over, it may be innacurate to say Ness has more killing moves, but I still say he has more reliable killing moves, and I find it much easier to KO with him than Lucas.
I'm referring mostly to Ness's aerial priority. My reasoning is simple--I get swatted away in the air with Lucas, but with Ness I do the swatting. Perhaps "priority" isn't the full story, but I could even argue Ness is better at countering opponents' attacks on the ground, due to the speed and range on his Yoyos, which properly time stop enemies in their tracks. I can use my up smash with Ness to stop all manner of nasty things, such as most of Ganondorf's high power, high priority attacks including his wizard's foot and massive punch attack. Lucas's tilts are great, but still relatively short ranged.
I feel like if you were fighting the ROB I'm fighting, you wouldn't disagree so strongly. As for Lucas's range, let me explain. Lucas has good range on his B moves. PK Fire is an obvious example. Thing is, ROB's lazer pretty much negates PK Fire use. You're thinking of the "fizzle" effect when ROB uses it twice in a row. Thing is, it only stays "fizzled" for about a second, then it's at "normal power" for about twenty seconds before reaching full power. Although it won't be in the "super" state, He can use his lazer every few seconds. No amount of PK Fire spamming will get through that. So, when I PK Fire, I get lazered. When I PK Thunder, I get lazered. When I PK Freeze, guess what. I get lasered. In the unlikely event he doesn't have a laser ready, I get gyroed. This guy is ridiculously good with ROB. However, ROB is big and easily jugglable with Ness in ways I don't see Lucas matching. I fight this guy constantly, and if there were a reliable way of beating him with Lucas, I would have found it. Reflecting Gyro's is cool, and I need to do it more. But as for absorbing lasers, this is VERY hard due to that thing's speed. If you wait until you see him firing it, it's too late almost regardless of distance. You have to KNOW when he's going to use it and activate before hand, in which case I think Lucas's slight additional speed on PSI Magnet doesn't count for that much.
This seems obvious to me, I'm afraid. Neither can rely heavily on projectiles, but Ness usually doesn't do that anyway. Lucas does, meaning a big part of his abilities are disabled. Lucas has good tilts, but they're generally short ranged. His forward tilt is the big exception, but Ness will surely approach from the air, probably with his forward aerial. I know you think Lucas's tilts have better range than I give them credit for, but I still don't see anything in his ground combat (save for his exposing up smashes) that will compete with Ness's forward aerial in priority. In the air, too, Lucas's forward aerial and even his neutral aerial should lose to Ness's. Placed carefully, Ness's dash attack, another main approach, will outrange Lucas's forward tilt. I'm not saying Ness is better than Lucas, but in this particular match up I think he has more going for him.
I mention Lucas's better recovery earlier in the guide, and I think it goes without saying. As for the PK Thunder trick ... It's a very situational thing, but I hardly consider it "********." It would have to be a mind game kind of thing, but I can see it being useful. If he's using PSI Magnet, steer away. Easily done, and you should be expecting it. He'll still sink a little bit from PSI Magnet, which could end up harming his recovery.
*sigh* Your arguments depend on me agreeing with you in your initial statements, and frankly I don't. It's tiring to repeatedly tell you how much I disagree with your assessments of range and priority. As far as grabs, I believe what Ness lacks in range he gains in recovery speed. I feel much safer using Ness's grabs, and I'm still convinced his throws are superior to Lucas's. I STRONGLY disagree that Lucas's down throw combos better than Ness's. Ness's down throw is the main throw I use, and was in Melee as well, specifically because it comos easily. Granted, if someone DI's sharply away it's somewhat tricky to get at them, but I can still almost always get at them with a forward aerial.
I think that's incorrect. To be honest, every time I've heard people claim this, I've wondered where the reasoning comes from. I play Lucas more than Ness, but generally feel much more powerful when playing Ness. With Lucas, I seem to come up against more "brick wall" types of opponents who are next to impossible to approach. The opponents I face punish me constantly for missing any smash attacks, which I'm very careful not to overuse. They hit me before I get close enough with my aerials. They hit me out of PK Fire and other projectiles. I refuse to believe my Ness is simply better than my Lucas--all my opponents seem to be claiming the opposite. But I see a great amount of strengths in Ness, which at least compete with Lucas's advantages. I still say Ness's aerial combat is far superior, and I still say Lucas's short-ranged combat is quick but limited. I'm afraid you haven't convinced me much at all. Of course, my way of playing is certainly not the only way, but against my opponents much of what you're describing simply doesn't work. And I'm afraid my personal experience in battle is more trustworthy to me than your assertions. I'm sure you feel the same.
