Most nerfed character?

[Kikkipoptart12]

I say Meta knight and oilmar, I not going to say Marth because he got more buffs than nerfs in this game so he is still good, Meta Knight is ok not a op like he was in brawl. Is it just me of Oilmar have less KO power in this game and I think the lack of Pikmin really hurt him in this game.

 

[BlackCephie]

Im pretty salty about Samus losing missile cancel. Im aware that Sakurai removed B-auto cancels, basically nerfing projectiles across the board, but I think she of all characters should have been able to b cancel. It was her bread an butter through two generations of smash and fit perfectly with her character and philosophy. It was a technique that provided relentless ranged pressure, but wasn't completely OP or insurmountable. What annoys me the most about this change is that she was given buffs to some of her normals, but then Sakurai turned around and added nerfs to these same exact moves. Fair, bair, dair and even zair all got ridiculous amounts of recovery time added to them on landing. fsmash is easily punished, dsmash is gimped, usmash is virtually useless and the missiles themselves also have what i consider to be an unecessary amount of recovery lag on them, especially since she is a ranged, defensive character. So basically he took away her greatest asset, but didn't actually give her the tools to efficiently compete against the top tier characters. Of course, she CAN win and imho isnt a bad character in 4, but from a design standpoint it was a pretty drastic nerf to her considering what he gave her in return, or DIDNT give her I should say. She has a bad jab BY DESIGN for goodness sake.

Samus. I'm so salty she lost missile cancel. Im moving to Salt Lake city.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Samus was so bad in Brawl though lol

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

Literally speaking, probably got nerfed the most, but because he was so good before, he's still not that bad. He's not much worse so much as he is a lot less good. While several characters got nerfed, the only ones who I think took enough of a hit to become substantially worse-off are .

Honorable mentions are . Most of these characters got some significant nerfs, but weren't hit as hard as the above and/or were granted some useful new tools in exchange. Zelda seems nerfed in some ways and improved in others, but regardless of whether she received a net gain or a net loss, she was so unimpressive in Brawl that she can't claim to have been nerfed all that much in total. (Note: I'm very unfamiliar with Smash 4 Zelda, so correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

[Kenith]

My vote goes to , since I don't know Olimar enough to know.
It saddens me too, the whole reason I was hyped for was because she played like my best character in Melee and Brawl, but now they both are just sort of...mediocre.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Literally speaking, probably got nerfed the most, but because he was so good before, he's still not that bad. He's not much worse so much as he is a lot less good. While several characters got nerfed, the only ones who I think took enough of a hit to become substantially worse-off are .

Honorable mentions are . Most of these characters got some significant nerfs, but weren't hit as hard as the above and/or were granted some useful new tools in exchange. Zelda seems nerfed in some ways and improved in others, but regardless of whether she received a net gain or a net loss, she was so unimpressive in Brawl that she can't claim to have been nerfed all that much in total. (Note: I'm very unfamiliar with Smash 4 Zelda, so correct me if I'm wrong.)

Could you explain Ike? I feel like he's better overall in Smash 4. He might be a bit weaker in terms of kill power, but he still hits very hard and is much faster and less exploitable in general. At least in 1.0.4 he feels buffed from Brawl, as Fair is much faster and is a great spacing tool, while Dtilt has also been sped up and made useful.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

Could you explain Ike? I feel like he's better overall in Smash 4. He might be a bit weaker in terms of kill power, but he still hits very hard and is much faster and less exploitable in general. At least in 1.0.4 he feels buffed from Brawl, as Fair is much faster and is a great spacing tool, while Dtilt has also been sped up and made useful.

Ike feels...more punishable to me. Aerials seem to come out and end a bit slower. Ftilt also feels a lot slower to me. The lowered kill power makes playing him an uphill battle in my hands, since he didn't get any speedier and he's still pretty easy to camp. I'm not an Ike expert, though, so maybe I'm wrong (I'd hope so, since he wasn't exactly top tier in Brawl), and Project M may be tainting my memory of "Brawl" Ike a tad.

I don't think Smash 4 Ike is bad, though (I think Falco and Olimar may be worse; not sure about Doc yet). The game is actually pretty balanced as far as we can tell, and even the consensus "low tier" characters can hold their own pretty well at the moment. Ryuga's Ike has been shown to be no slouch.

Edit: You know, considering Ike wasn't too powerful in Brawl anyway, I'd probably more accurately group him with the second category of characters. Any changes he got are probably more alike those that DK got.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Thinking a bit more I think I agree with all the people mentioning Falco. I mean he, like Meta Knight, isn't terrible, but literally everything good he had was stripped away in some form.

 

[PEPESPAIN]

he sucks now.

 

[LordCQ]

Ike... seriously.

 

[ChopperDave]

Mega Man's Metal Blade got nerfed pretty bad from MM2 to Smash 4.

I get that it was OP how it used to be able to OHKO pretty much everything, but now it only does 3-5% damage per hit! WTF, Sakurai.

 

[HylianDuelist]

Ice Climbers weren't nerfed nearly as bad as Snake. At least they got a trophy

That may be bad, but look at Mewtwo. He got so Nerfed, they have to make a patch to fix him

 

[Woowoowhistle]

now weighs as much as he looks.

A piece of paper.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Olimar or Meta Knight for sure

 

[Aguki90]

Even Olimar and Meta knight were over nerfed.

Sometime both are very cheap. Like really cheap. Meta Knight Up air in Can do very cheap kills in high percentage and Olimar Front smash with a red pikmin is ridiculous.(Dont get me started with purple.)

But Falco and Marth got the biggest nerfed in my opinion. Falco hits harder but is very slow like dan slow and Marth was less ranged. Now both are better in this patch.

I can say nothing about Ike because to me, still the same Ike of slow and strong. And now with this patch... Is Faster!!!

But overnerfed don't means is bad. I main Olimar and still the best character I can use and the best one to beat my own Amiibos very easily. Like nothing.

 

[Lag Chan]

I gave him some extra time, and I can say Game and Watch is beyond terrible, I'll even say he could be even worse than he was in Melee. At least there he had strong KO power, in Smash 4 he's got nothing. All his moves have been significantly weakened and he's so easy to KO then before I might as well be playing Jigglypuff. Outside of having good mobility, he's useless.

 

[Ze Diglett]

I gave him some extra time, and I can say Game and Watch is beyond terrible, I'll even say he could be even worse than he was in Melee. At least there he had strong KO power, in Smash 4 he's got nothing. All his moves have been significantly weakened and he's so easy to KO then before I might as well be playing Jigglypuff. Outside of having good mobility, he's useless.

As a wise man once said, "G&W in Melee is a glass cannon, in Brawl he's just a cannon. In SSB4, he's just glass."

 

[Xuan Wu]

Ike's status in SSB4 is questionable before the 1.0.4 update. Even before the update, he was shown to be a force to be reckoned with when pitted against the perceived top tiers, most notably by Ryuga at Youmacon 2014. Reputable SSBB Ike player San believed the character pre-1.0.4 was overall buffed.

The only two nerfs that hit Ike hard, in my opinion, are:

- Standard attack reduced from 16% to 11%, along with the loss of Jab Cancelling.
- Reverse Aether no longer snaps ledges.

Honestly, the first nerf was justifiable as its damage output is ridiculous for a non-rapid fire Jab. Heck, it hit harder than even Bowser's. I doubt the second aforementioned nerf will ever be acknowledged but, in the end, it would not have mattered much. Ike, in his current state, is now considerably buffed from SSBB.

Anyway, to respond to the OP, Meta Knight. The 1.0.4 update may have addressed some things, but he remains inferior to his SSBB counterpart in almost every possible way.

^-^

 

[Dragonhunter970]

Olimar.
He was really good, now he is useless, at least Meta Knight is still decent.

Marth and G&W are pretty bad now too, compared to their Brawl counterparts.

I still main marth.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Mega Man's Metal Blade got nerfed pretty bad from MM2 to Smash 4.

I get that it was OP how it used to be able to OHKO pretty much everything, but now it only does 3-5% damage per hit! WTF, Sakurai.

At least you can pick them up and throw them for 5% per hit. Look at Mario's Fireballs, they one-shotted everything but Bowser in SMB. Why Sakurai?

 

[3DSplayer]

I'd say Falco and Olimar are the most nerfed.
I was playing Brawl about two hours ago, and totally forgot what terror Olimar can unleash with all those pikmin.

 

[iVoltage]

First two are now unuseable, and meta knight needed nerfs not guttings. His range literally makes me throw up.

 

[New_Dumal]

Falco and Olimar. MK is not useless, could be a high tier with one or two buffs.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Falco is hilariously bad now compared to his Melee and Brawl counterparts. He lost virtually everything good about him aside from his jab. Chain grab, gone, cancelled lazers and lazer locks, virtually gone, one of the best spikes in the game, gone. Given how Olimar took years to develop into the force that he was in Brawl, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being .

 

[Arcadenik]

At least you can pick them up and throw them for 5% per hit. Look at Mario's Fireballs, they one-shotted everything but Bowser in SMB. Why Sakurai?

Duck Hunt got the worst nerfs of all.

You know how the ducks lived whenever the hunter missed... and how the ducks died immediately if the hunter didn't miss, right? Also, if a wild gunman shot you, you died right away. Why Sakurai?

 

[Ze Diglett]

Duck Hunt got the worst nerfs of all.

You know how the ducks lived whenever the hunter missed... and how the ducks died immediately if the hunter didn't miss, right? Also, if a wild gunman shot you, you died right away. Why Sakurai?

Well, R.O.B. got buffed a lot in terms of speed since the NES days. It's probably those rocket boosters...

 

[Rajikaru]

Honorable mentions are

No?

If anything Dedede was buffed. The only actually "good" thing he lost was his infinite grab, and that thing was just stupid anyways.

Obvious answer is Meta Knight, then I'd probably say Falco. He's kind of floating in the limbo between being his own unique character and just being a worse version of Fox now. His blaster is absolute garbage, his moves are all weird now and he doesn't really have the punch that keeps Fox from not being garbage.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I don't get why people are saying Dedede got hardcore nerfed. Aside from the loss of the chaingrab and his bair, I'd say Dedede was simply rearranged. The gordo toss is awesome and a much better stage control option than the waddle dee toss ever was, dthrow still has good options, his recovery and rocket hammer now have super armor, dtilt is one of the better punishing moves in the game, his jab combo can now reasonably kill, etc.

 

[Yong Dekonk]

The Gordon toss is pretty useless in 1v1 as a good player can read and deflect even when the gordo is directed in various ways. Waddle dee toss was great for spamming whereas the more you use gordo the more your opponent learns to read and deflect. Rocket hammer has super armor but is still one of the easiest to read moves in the game. His aerials are very hard to land and his up tilt knock back got nerfed. Also forward tilt range got nerfed.

 

[OnettGirl]

Umm...how is Ike bad? Sure he was questionable before 1.0.4 but after the patch he's better than he's ever been. I think some people underestimate him as a threat.

Gotta give my shoutouts to . I mean...he's not bad...but he's really fallen from glory. He just doesn't have the reach anymore. I tried making him a secondary but half the time when I feel like I should be tipping i'm whiffing. Maybe it's just something I have to adjust but it feels...very different from Brawl. And not in a good way.
I'll also give a nod to poor space burd .

 

[TheMiSP]

Still waiting for the day where G&W's old strength comes back, along with less lag.

 

[Born in 1839...]

Still waiting for the day where G&W's old strength comes back, along with less lag.

Still waiting for this, also.

 

[Xzsmmc]

Still waiting for the day where G&W's old strength comes back, along with less lag.

Still waiting for this, also.

Since more balance patches seem to be out of the question, you (and I) will have a long wait.

Goddammit, why did they neuter him so badly?

 

[Torturephile]

Disagree:
-Mr. Game and Watch: I don't think he's as horrible as some say, but I guess I just adjusted to him. Yes, I think he's weaker, but not enough to the point of uselessness.
-Martha: again, he's not that horrible. He's weaker, but his nerf wasn't as impacting as Mr. Game and Watch's, who is still tolerable. He's pretty high in EventHubs' constantly changing tier list. Lucina, on the other hand, ranks quite lower currently for some reason.

Agree:
-Olimar: I do feel he's worse now. I never learned how to play as him correctly in Brawl, but I remember he was effective.
-King Dedede: I don't recall him being so bad in Brawl, and given that Bowser is better now, I question why would anyone use the former instead of the latter. I miss his silly final smash dance, same for Luigi's.
-Falco: I guess as an attempt to de-clone him further, he's quite worse than Fox now. Same question from above applied here.
-Meta Knight: well, not a surprise as some say.

As for Zelda, yeah, she lost her best move, her down special in Brawl. Neither agree nor disagree with the nerfs, I never got to play well as her in either game.

 

[Minuy600]

I disagree with most of you about Mr Game and Watch. While he is weaker, he has sweet mobility and some great combo's! Wario is way better than in Brawl, and he was pretty good in that game.

 

[Omegascizor456]

metaknight was definetely VERY

Metaknight was VERY substantially nerfed in more ways than one...

 

[The5ilverback]

I would have to say that and are the two characters I feel have been nerfed the most and I disagree with as I used him alot in brawl and think that he is better overall in SSB4 and like his new recovery move.

 

[TheMiSP]

I don't understand. If G&W is supposed to be weaker, to fit his, say, flatness, then why does he have all of this stupid landing endlag on nearly all of his aerials (dair)? Because of this, he can't hit more/combo like he's supposed to. Not to mention all of that horrible lag on oil panic. Shoutouts to bair losing strength as well.

Regarding him killing. Yes, that usmash armor is handy. But really, nobody would be above me. He has problems with just dang landing a kill. Fsmash to me seems like crap. That sourspot (torch handle) is just too big. None of his smashes really KO as early as Brawl. Yes, he probably got toned down to balance with rage, but really? He'd almost never survive that long considering that he's lightweight.

So yes, he does need a buff. It'd be nice if we got Brawl strength and less lag, but really one or the other is just fine. Either more slippery or more glass cannon-like.

 

[Octagon]

Pikachu OMG!!!!

 

[PsiArbyOmega]

The most nerfed character is DEFINITELY Olimar!
He has less Pikmin, meaning he has to pluck more every so often if they die. Also, his recovery is a f***ing bad nerf. Sure, he can get back on the stage more easily but tether recoveries were buffed due to the removal of edge hogging. In addition, once you get back to the stage, you will have no Pikmin because you need to throw them away while recovering! You will have to pluck, so then your opponent could easily start a crazy combo and follow up with a bunch of other moves and get you killed. His Down-B was also nerfed. It has less super armor frames, so if you're in a bad spot, and you're about to get hit by something like a KO Uppercut or a Falcon Punch, and you use Olimar's Down-B, you're practically dead. Olimar has less follow-ups, less combos, weaker attacks, worse recovery, and he is definitely the worst char in the game. He really fell from the glory of being 3rd on the tier list in Brawl.