You aren't using the notch ... we're talking about using notches.
I really dont understand what you're trying to bring to the discussion with this.
I was just pointing out that I wasn't proving his point. Obviously if I'm talking about notches not being necessary in all situations, I AM talking about not using notches in that moment.
To summarize my points regarding hybrid gate (attack them at will):
The dead zone is part of the game, just like L-cancelling. There are good points to say things would be better if it was removed, but it's there. Holding the stick against a very specific point on the flat side of the gate (and especially finding this specific spot accurately and quickly when you're pushing your limits of reaction and speed) is considerably more difficult than holding the stick against a notch. This is because the notch funnels the stick in to a specific spot, and keeps it there (eliminating worries of shakey hands) with significantly less required accuracy. When accuracy is almost guaranteed, you can move the stick faster, as you know you if your accuracy is off some, the notch will make up for it. Knowledge of the perfect wavedash angle is no longer necessary with a notch, as you have, at a minimum, a physical entity providing tactile feedback which tells you exactly where this useful angle is, making it much easier to find. It reduces the focus necessary to find it, so more focus can be redirected elsewhere, which is important in melee as your abilities of extreme mental multitasking are constantly being tested. If the notch is deeper, it augments the aid you receive in achieving this angle. Instead of tactile feedback, you achieve the desired angle by applying pressure in a significantly wider span of angles, whereas if there was no notch, you would have to apply pressure to the stick in a very specific direction to achieve the angle, as there is little friction between the shaft of the control stick and the flat edge of the octagon gate. This makes a noticeable, noteable difference when you are pushing the absolute limits of your reaction time and speed constantly during a 3-6 minute match.
Techniques aided by hybrid gate:
Max distance wavedashing. Importance = High (character dependent)
Max distance ASDI grabbing/evading. Importance = Medium (character and matchup dependent)
Recovery angles for fox, falco, sheik, pikachu, zelda, mewtwo, pichu. Importance = Low/Medium (character dependent)
Angled fsmash/ftilts. Importance = Low (character dependent)
Optimal Survival and Combo DI angles. Importance = Low/Medium (situationally dependent)
Melee is like the Butterfly Effect. Getting that one extra grab, evading that one hit, getting that one recovery correct, etc. can change the outcome of games and sets. But we're not talking about achieving one desired input or maneuver, we're talking about receiving constant aid throughout every match, during stressful and mentally taxing situations. With something aiding your accuracy, you can be faster (normally there is a limit to one's speed without sacrificing accuracy, but if accuracy is less of an issue, your speed limit increases). You can also focus more on other aspects of the game (with a notch), since achieving very specific useful angles requires less focus.
The octagon-shaped gate was the standard for competition for 14 years. People were aware of the dead zone, and developed special skills to get around it through practice. Having to L-cancel seems like a nuisance to some, but we had to practice quite a bit so there was no unnecessary lag after our aerials. With a notch, sure, you still have to practice, but not nearly as much. The deeper the notch, the less practice is required (up until a point). So, players having notches nowadays can achieve more with less practice, utilizing outside aid in executing specific important technical maneuvers, due to the lack of a clear and concise rule backing the seemingly obvious standard. The fairness of this comes into question, and is debatable, as is the significance of the aid a player receives, which will vary with the depth of the notch, the character they play, the matchup they encounter, and their natural strengths and weaknesses as a player. I just don't feel that "innovation" is the correct word to describe this phenomenon, nor do I feel that writing off the effects of which as negligible is anywhere near correct.
Regarding legality, I think we can all agree that it would be impossible to allow one particular type or size of notch while banning another, despite the fact that deeper notches provide more aid in achieving highly specific important angles. We must recall that during the first few years of melee, no one had the foresight to see someone modifying one's controller to make max length wavedashing easier. And it begs the question: "Had they known, would they have created a rule against this?" (Side note: remember how great you felt back in the day when you finally mastered wavedashing; it wasn't nearly as common as it is today). One can only speculate. With the semi-recent surge in the popularity of shield dropping, the issue of controller inequality has surfaced to the mainstream. As innovators such as Kadano studied this issue and found ways to make controllers work the way in which they were intended (regarding shield dropping and also backdashing), at what point did we decide that any and all modifications to the standard octagon gate were acceptable? Was it simply because there was no clear cut rule against it? The intent behind shield drop notches is sensible. With other notches, I can't say that I agree. Every controller is capable of achieving the perfect wavedash angle (as well as other angles), whereas not every controller can shield drop well, as they were intended to do. I see a clear difference in the two. The intent is to make important angles much easier to achieve (I don't think people realized the other ways in which notches help at the time regarding aid in stressful and mentally taxing situations and increasing ones speed to accuracy focus ratio). If this wasn't the intent, why would the notches not be in specific locations corresponding with specific desired inputs used constantly throughout the game? If it wasn't so important, why would the desire to have one of these controllers be so high? I feel that the help received is significant, underestimated, and undervalued. I base my opinion off 12 years of playing this game, being PR'd in NC with Ganon and never drowning in pools at a national or regional. My skill level is irrelevant, just saying, I'm not just a smashboards junkie.
Edit: another issue regarding legality: if a notch is so small it can't be seen (and virtually impossible to enforce), how much is it helping?
Double Edit: Kadano admitted if any of his mods should be banned, it would be hybrid gate, and Blur stated on the Genesis 3 stream that most major TO's he spoke to agreed it should be banned.
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