Legality Modified Controllers?

[Fortress | Sveet]

What macros does smashbox have?

 

[Synnett]

What macros does smashbox have?

It has macro for tilts. I mean, it's needed but causes an issue.

 

[tauKhan]

The c-stick is a macro, but it's standard, or tradition, as you call it.

I don't see how this is relevant for the convo, but c-stick isn't a macro in melee, not at least in terms of how I understand macro. With c-stick you can perform some actions that could be done by other means, but c-stick input doesn't translate to control stick input + direction (I believe it does in Brawl though). z on the other hand is very close to macro for light trigger input + a. For example, holding a will make z not attack, and vice versa. However, it doesn't behave completely same way as triggers for lightshield, as with triggers the strongest shield input is used to determine analog effect for shield with triggers, but z analog effect prioritizes over trigger even when the trigger effect is stronger.

 

[-ACE-]

I don't see how this is relevant for the convo, but c-stick isn't a macro in melee, not at least in terms of how I understand macro. With c-stick you can perform some actions that could be done by other means, but c-stick input doesn't translate to control stick input + direction (I believe it does in Brawl though). z on the other hand is very close to macro for light trigger input + a. For example, holding a will make z not attack, and vice versa. However, it doesn't behave completely same way as triggers for lightshield, as with triggers the strongest shield input is used to determine analog effect for shield with triggers, but z analog effect prioritizes over trigger even when the trigger effect is stronger.

I was under the impression that a macro consisted of one input being programmed to perform more than one input.

 

[tauKhan]

I was under the impression that a macro consisted of one input being programmed to perform more than one input.

Yeah, that's what I'm going by too; C-stick input is just c-stick input in melee, and doesn't equate to sequence of more than one inputs. There are cases where you're even required to use c-stick, like ASDI + TDI in different directions simultaneously, which highlights that. Pressing z on the other hand is very close to equating lightpressing R + a simultaneously.

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah, that's what I'm going by too; C-stick input is just c-stick input in melee, and doesn't equate to sequence of more than one inputs. There are cases where you're even required to use c-stick, like ASDI + TDI in different directions simultaneously, which highlights that. Pressing z on the other hand is very close to equating lightpressing R + a simultaneously.

How is the c-stick not inputing the A button and a direction simultaneously?

 

[tauKhan]

How is the c-stick not inputing the A button and a direction simultaneously?

C-stick isn't inputting A button because:

• If you're already holding A, pressing A would do nothing. This is the case if you hold Z and press A, or if you hold A and press Z, Z won't make you grab or attack. Conversely, C-stick works normally while you're holding A or Z
• You can't use C-stick to perform A button functions when smash attacks aren't available, for example jab2 from jab1.

C-stick isn't inputting control stick direction because:

• C-stick doesn't have most of the functions control stick has, especially when smash attacks aren't available. These include but aren't limited to: TDI, SDI, aerial drift, jump analog effect, fast fall, turn, crouch etc.
• C-stick input has independent effect (ASDI) from control stick input on the launch frame, i.e. you can ASDI to different value you TDI to.

 

[-ACE-]

C-stick isn't inputting A button because:

• If you're already holding A, pressing A would do nothing. This is the case if you hold Z and press A, or if you hold A and press Z, Z won't make you grab or attack. Conversely, C-stick works normally while you're holding A or Z
• You can't use C-stick to perform A button functions when smash attacks aren't available, for example jab2 from jab1.

C-stick isn't inputting control stick direction because:

• C-stick doesn't have most of the functions control stick has, especially when smash attacks aren't available. These include but aren't limited to: TDI, SDI, aerial drift, jump analog effect, fast fall, turn, crouch etc.
• C-stick input has independent effect (ASDI) from control stick input on the launch frame, i.e. you can ASDI to different value you TDI to.

I understand there are technical differences. But the fact remains, the c-stick's main purpose (smash attacks and aerials other than nair) consists of 2 separate inputs applied at once.

 

[Zigludo]

I actually use the cstick mostly for an input in which it is distinctly not identical to control stick + A - buffering movement OoS.

If you hold down the control stick, you can't buffer roll or spotdodge from shield. With cstick you can, because it's a distinct input that follows its own set of rules.

 

[tauKhan]

I understand there are technical differences. But the fact remains, the c-stick's main purpose (smash attacks and aerials other than nair) consists of 2 separate inputs applied at once.

Right. I just view it like smash attacks and aerials simply have alternative input requirements, like many other actions do too. For me a macro input gets converted directly into other inputs, like c-stick inputs do in Brawl.

 

[-ACE-]

I understand it's not a perfect example. So far, that is the only point of my post people have chosen to criticize. Sveet basically asserted that I was wrong without addressing any of my points, and said he still beats his friends that use notched controllers lol. I was hoping for a better response. I'll agree that the c-stick is only a macro in most situations.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

It has macro for tilts. I mean, it's needed but causes an issue.

Is that a macro? You have to do 3 inputs where on a gamecube controller it would be only 2. It is a difference, but I don't think "macro" is the category of this mod.

 

[tauKhan]

I agree with sveet, I don't think the smashbox analog input modifying buttons are macros. Whether or not they should be acceptable is a different question though.