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Moar Random Crap: Airwalk, SCAC, and ALFC Discussion and Research

Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
7,190
What is an Airwalk?
Airwalk [Certain Characters] - Certain characters have traits or moves that allow them to briefly go offstage, then drift back. The most common traits that allow this are floatiness and aerial mobility. When performed through a move, the move is usually cancelled when the character crosses the ledge. Not to be confused with Lucario's Altered Momentum DownAir, whose popular name is also "the Airwalk".
What is neccessary for a move to be able to airwalk?
Specifications for an airwalk:
Put simply, a move cannot compromise your momentum to a single direction THE WHOLE DURATION OF THE MOVE. This is why Wings of Icarus can airwalk. If it does, as in Ike's Quickdraw, then it must have startup lag that can conserve momentum, and enough of it. This is why Yoshi's Eggroll cannot airwalk. Although you can control your aerial direction a bit, it isn't enough, and apart from that, even though it has startup lag, it does not conserve momentum, it cancels it. It also explains why sometimes I would impact the lip of Battlefield when trying to airwalk with Eggroll.
--
Key-
[R]: Reversed; reverse momentum special
[AC]: Aftercanceled; indicates that a move is canceled either because of landing back onstage, and putting you in your landing lag animation, or in the case of Shiek's needle charge, you cancel it as soon as you airwalk back by pressing your shield button
[CASAD]: Canceled as soon as drift; the special is completelly canceled, i.e. puts you in your idle falling animation, and enables you to drift back onstage
[D]: Drift; in the case of moves, drift means when you go offstage facing one direction, then direct your way back to the stage while in the move in a way that you are left facing the same direction; in the case of Wario, indicates that you can simply tap off the ldge then drift back simply with aerial mobility
[DD]: Dash Dance; only applies to the Ice Climbers; means that because of dashdancing near the edge, the secondary Climber falls off but airwalks back to rejoin the primary Climber
[collapse=list of compatible characters/moves]Mario: [R]Fireball, [AC]Cape
Luigi: [R]Fireball, [R]Tornado
Donkey Kong: [R]Headbutt, [D]Kong Spin
Yoshi: [R]Egg Lay, [R]Egg Throw
R.O.B.: [R]Laser, [R]Robocopter, [R]Gyro Charge/Shot, [D]DownAir
Snake: [R]Grenade, [R]Nikita, [R]C4, [AC]C4
Captain Falcon: n/a*(1)
Kirby: [D]/[AC]Hammer
Lucas: [R]PK Freeze, [AC]PK Fire *(2)
Ness: [R]PK Flash, [CASAD]PK Fire, [AC]PK Fire *(2)
Mr. Game and Watch: [R]Chef, [R]Judge
Wario: [D]Aerial Mobility, [D]/[AC]ForwardAir, [D]/[AC]BackwardAir, [D]/[AC]UpAir
Pit: [D]Wings of Icarus, *(3)[R]Angel Ring, [R]Arrow, [R]Shield
Ice Climbers: [DD]Secondary Climber, [R]Squall Hammer, [R]Blizzard, [CASAD]Ice Block
Pikachu: [R]Thunder
King DDD: [R]Minion Throw
Samus: [CASAD]Missile, [R]Bomb *(4)
Jigglypuff: [R]Pound
Link: [R]Arrow, [R]Gale Boomerang, [CASAD]Spin Attack Charge
Toon Link: [R]Arrow, [R]Boomerang, [CASAD]Spin Attack Charge
Lucario: [R] Force Palm, [R]Aura Sphere Charge, [R]Aura Sphere Shot
Wolf: [R]Laser
Zelda: [R]Nayru's Love, [R]Din's Fire
Shiek: [R]Needle Charge, [AC]Needle Charge, [R]Needle Shot
Marth: [R]Shield Breaker
Ivysaur: [R]Razor Leaf
Ike: [R]Quickdraw
Zero Suit Samus: [R]Stunner, [R]Vertical Whip*(5)
Olimar: [R]Pikmin Toss *(6), [R]Whistle
[/collapse]
Characters not listed have no airwalks
Notes:
*(1)- I'm thinking that Captain Falcon has the capacity to airwalk, albeit under more specific conditions. On Yoshi's Island: Brawl, you can grounded Falcon Kick while in the center of the "trapezoid" to the left/right of the center dent, so that as the move ends, it is botched in a way by the outer downward incline so that you are left falling close to the ledge. Try it out for yourself to get a better idea of what it looks like. I'm confident that this opens up a way for Captain Falcon to airwalk.
*(2)- Things that I didn't know about the PK Kids' PK Fires and second jumps, and found out while testing(READ: NOT NECCESSARILY NEW): Both kids have three sparkles in their jumps. For Ness, if PK Fire is input before the first sparkle, his second jump's height is reduced. If input during the first sparkle to during the second sparkle, his second jump's momentum is canceled. If input after the second sparkle, he retains whatever momentum is left over. For Lucas, if PK Fire is input simultaneously with his second jump, a Zap Jump occurs. If input before the first to before the second sparkle, his second jump's height is reduced. If input during the second sparkle, his second jump's momentum is cancelled. If input after the second sparkle, he retains whatever momentum was left over. However, and this applies for both kids, if you buffer a double jump during landing lag a la ISJR, then input a PK Fire shortly thereafter, it will completelly cancel the jump, resulting in the kid entering another landing lag animation as soon as the first one is finished, without leaving the ground.
*(3)- A weird gimmick happened when I was testing with Wings of Icarus. It can be canceled when you slide off the edge with it before you begin ascending. So when I tried it with B-Sticking, Pit automatically uses his second jump after the cancel. When I did this and drifted to the left, towards the right platform(Battlefield), Pit sort of tripped, but in a wierd way, and pratfell. It was really unusual, and it hasn't happened again yet.
*(4)- Samus can do a "roll stop" with her bombs on the lege. Basically you dash, bomb lay as you go off, but slam the analog stick backwards and down. What should happen is that Samus does her morph ball roll in place. Not sure if this is some kind of airwalk, because before the roll in place, Samus twitches a bit in the direction offstage.
*(5)- When reversing ZSSamus's vertical whip to airwalk, I found out that it has three sound effects, arranged in a priority list. They are "silent", i.e., no sound when the move is performed, "whip whoosh", and "whip whistle", in that order. That is, you can perform a silent whip airwalk, a whip whoosh airwalk, and a full sound effect airwalk.
*(6)- New to me: If you pluck as you go off the edge, you can pluck almost animationless. This looks cool when you have no Pikmin then "Quick Pluck" off a platform to an instant Pikmin throw.
--
How to Perform:
-Wario: Flick the control stick to go offstage, then drift back onstage.
-Through a move: Run, then in the move's specific window, input the move so that you conserve momentum and slide off the ledge, then either drift back, or reverse your momentum to get back.
Examples-[collapse=~Missile Ledge Cancel(?) (Samus)]- Used in reference to dashing with Samus, then, at a certain point in the dash, inputting a missile so that you slide off the stage and the missile is cancelled. Samus is then left hanging in the air right next to ledge in which there is a window large enough to airwalk. Also useful for edgeguarding, as it puts Samus right in front of the ledge.[/collapse]
[collapse=~C4 Aiwalk(?) (Snake)]- Used in reference to dashing, then as you go offstage, pressing DownB to begin planting a C4, then hitting the analog stick back. There are two variations of this. One is where when you get back onstage, Snake still plants his C4. The other is where you perform the reverse late enough so that the animation is canceled when you drift back.[/collapse]
~~~~
What is a SCAC?
SCAC (Special Charge Airdodge Cancel) [Certain Characters] - Certain characters have windows in their aerial specials in which they can be cancelled by inputting an airdodge. Depending on the timing, the special will either be cancelled into a normal fall or into an actual airdodge.
--
Key-
[AD]: Airdodge; when canceled, puts you into an airdodge
[IF]: Idle Fall; puts you into an idle fall
[AE]: Animation End; only applies to Snake
(A): Always; always puts you in the following action
(TD): Timing Dependent; followed by timings
[collapse=list of compatible characters/moves]Donkey Kong: Giant Punch(TD);[AD]input airdodge during charging sparkle [IF]input airdodge between sparkles
Diddy Kong: Peanut Popgun(A)[AD]
R.O.B.: Gyro(TD); [IF]input airdodge during opening frames [AD]input airdodge after opening frames
Shiek: Needles(A)[IF]
Mario: FLUDD(A)[AD]
Lucario: Aura Sphere(A)[AD]
Squirtle: Water Gun(A)[AD]
Snake: Nikita(A)[AE][/collapse]
How to Perform: Input a cancellable special while in the air, then input an airdodge in the desired effect's window.
Examples-[collapse=~Gyro Cancelling (R.O.B.)] - The popular name used when refering to cancelling R.O.B.'s aerial Gyro Charge. Usually refers to the more optimal cancel which leads to a normal fall.[/collapse]
[collapse=~Giant Punch Cancel (Donkey Kong)] - The popular name used to refer to cancelling Donkey Kong's aerial Giant Punch charge. When an airdodge is input during a sparkle effect, an airdodge occurs. When an airdodge is input between sparkle effects, a normal fall is induced.[/collapse]
~~~~
What is an ALFC?
ALFC (Attack Land Fall Cancel) [Certain Characters] - Certain characters have attacks that, when spaced correctly, will automatically cancel into a fall upon reaching the edge. Some will sweetspot the ledge, while others will give you enough time to pull out a quick aerial similar to CASAed specials.
What is neccessary for a move to be able to be ALFCed?
Specifications for an ALFC:
So far, all that seems neccessary for a move to be ALFCed compatible is that it does compromise your momentum and direction to the x-axis, to some degree, and that it lift the character's frame off the ground.
--
Key-
[F]: Fall; puts your character into a normal fall. When fall is possible, ledgesnap is always implied as well
[SF]: Special Fall; puts your character into helpless
[LS]: Ledgesnap; auto ledgesnaps the ledge
[DF]: Delayed Fall; puts your character into fall, but does not allow extra inputs instantly. When delayed fall is possible, ledgesnap is implied as well, unless it is a DFNS
[DFNS]: Delayed Fall No Snap; puts your character into delayed fall, but too far away to make a ledgesnap possible
[DE]: Desynch; only applies to the Ice Climbers on slanted edges. Desynchs them
[SFS]: Special Fall Snap; only applies to the Ice Climbers on flat edges. Puts them into a special fall but then autosnaps the ledge.
[OS]: Onstage; makes your character fall onstage. Never allows an extra input to be completed.
[collapse=Flat Edge ALFCancels]Captain Falcon: Falcon Kick[F]
Ganondorf: Wizard's Foot[F]
Metaknight: Drill Rush[F]
Pikachu: Skull Bash[LS]
Ice Climbers: Squall Hammer[SFS]
Luigi: Green Missile[DF]
Bowser: Flying Fortress[SF]
Donkey Kong: Kong Spin[SF]
Squirtle: Rapid Spin[F]*(1)
Peach: Peach Bomber[DFNS]
Shiek: Vanish[SF]/[LS]*(2)
Zelda: Farore's Wind[F][/collapse]
[collapse=Slanted Edge ALFCancels]Pikachu: Quick Attack[F(OS)]*(3), Skull Bash[DFNS]
Ice Climbers: Squall Hammer[SF]/[DE]*(3)
Ganondorf: Wizard's Foot[F]
Captain Falcon: Falcon Kick[F]
Squirtle: Rapid Spin[F]
Metaknight: Drill Rush[F]
Luigi: Green Missile[DF]
Donkey Kong: Kong Spin[SF]
Bowser: Flying Fortress[SF]
Fox: Fire Fox[OS]
Falco: Fire Falcon[OS]
Wolf: Flying Wolf[OS]
Diddy Kong: Monkey Flip[F]
Zelda: Farore's wind[F]
Shiek: Vanish[SF]/[LS][/collapse]
Notes:
*(1)- A certain spacing of this will cause Squirtle to be boosted up a considerable amount before ending the move offstage.
*(2)- It seems that if you input a Forward Aerial at the time when you would ledgesnap with Shiek, you instead ignore the ledge and go into Special Fall.
*(3)- Depending on your spacing, you will either fall onstage with Skullbash/Desynch with Squall Hammer, or go into delayed/special fall. Also, Desynch is in fact the effect of Squall Hammer causing an onstage landing.
--

Tags are sexy.
 
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Random Mechanics: Public Release Version

Random Move Mechanics

What is an Airwalk?

Airwalk [Certain Characters] - Certain characters have traits or moves that allow them to briefly go offstage, then drift back. The most common traits that allow this are floatiness and aerial mobility. When performed through a move, the move is usually cancelled when the character crosses the ledge. Not to be confused with Lucario's Altered Momentum DownAir, whose popular name is also "the Airwalk".

What is neccessary for a move to be able to airwalk?

Specifications for an airwalk:
Put simply, a move cannot compromise your momentum to a single direction THE WHOLE DURATION OF THE MOVE. This is why Wings of Icarus can airwalk. If it does, as in Ike's Quickdraw, then it must have startup lag that can conserve momentum, and enough of it. This is why Yoshi's Eggroll cannot airwalk. Although you can control your aerial direction a bit, it isn't enough, and apart from that, even though it has startup lag, it does not conserve momentum, it cancels it. It also explains why one will occasionally impact the lip of Battlefield when trying to airwalk with Eggroll.


Key-

[R]: Reversed; reverse momentum special
[AC]: Aftercanceled; indicates that a move is canceled either because of landing back onstage, and putting you in your landing lag animation, or in the case of Shiek's needle charge, you cancel it as soon as you airwalk back by pressing your shield button
[CASAD]: Canceled as soon as drift; the special is completelly canceled, i.e. puts you in your idle falling animation, and enables you to drift back onstage
[D]: Drift; in the case of moves, drift means when one goes offstage facing one direction, then directs their way back to the stage while in the move in a way that they are left facing the same direction; in the case of Wario, it indicates that one can simply tap off the ldge then drift back with aerial mobility
[DD]: Dash Dance; only applies to the Ice Climbers; this means that because of dashdancing near the edge, the secondary Climber falls off but airwalks back to rejoin the primary Climber

[collapse=list of compatible characters/moves]Mario: [R]Fireball, [AC]Cape
Luigi: [R]Fireball, [R]Tornado
Donkey Kong: [R]Headbutt, [D]Kong Spin
Yoshi: [R]Egg Lay, [R]Egg Throw
R.O.B.: [R]Laser, [R]Robocopter, [R]Gyro Charge/Shot, [D]DownAir
Snake: [R]Grenade, [R]Nikita, [R]C4, [AC]C4
Kirby: [D]/[AC]Hammer
Lucas: [R]PK Freeze, [AC]PK Fire
Ness: [R]PK Flash, [CASAD]PK Fire, [AC]PK Fire
Mr. Game and Watch: [R]Chef, [R]Judge
Wario: [D]Aerial Mobility, [D]/[AC]ForwardAir, [D]/[AC]BackwardAir, [D]/[AC]UpAir
Pit: [D]Wings of Icarus, [R]Angel Ring, [R]Arrow, [R]Shield
Ice Climbers: [DD]Secondary Climber, [R]Squall Hammer, [R]Blizzard, [CASAD]Ice Block
Pikachu: [R]Thunder
King DDD: [R]Minion Throw
Samus: [CASAD]Missile
Jigglypuff: [R]Pound
Link: [R]Arrow, [R]Gale Boomerang, [CASAD]Spin Attack Charge
Toon Link: [R]Arrow, [R]Boomerang, [CASAD]Spin Attack Charge
Lucario: [R] Force Palm, [R]Aura Sphere Charge, [R]Aura Sphere Shot
Wolf: [R]Laser
Zelda: [R]Nayru's Love, [R]Din's Fire
Shiek: [R]Needle Charge, [AC]Needle Charge, [R]Needle Shot
Marth: [R]Shield Breaker
Ivysaur: [R]Razor Leaf
Ike: [R]Quickdraw
Zero Suit Samus: [R]Stunner, [R]Vertical Whip
Olimar: [R]Pikmin Toss, [R]Whistle
[/collapse]
Characters not listed have no airwalks

How to Perform:
-Wario: Flick the control stick to go offstage, then drift back onstage.
-Through a move: Run, then in the move's specific window, input the move so that you conserve momentum and slide off the ledge, then either drift back, or reverse your momentum to get back.
Examples-
[collapse=~Missile Ledge Cancel(?) (Samus)]- Used in reference to dashing with Samus, then, at a certain point in the dash, inputting a missile so that you slide off the stage and the missile is cancelled. Samus is then left hanging in the air right next to ledge in which there is a window large enough to airwalk. Also useful for edgeguarding, as it puts Samus right in front of the ledge.[/collapse]
[collapse=Samus after a Missile Ledge Cancel]
[/collapse]
[collapse=~C4 Aiwalk(?) (Snake)]- Used in reference to dashing, then as you go offstage, pressing DownB to begin planting a C4, then hitting the analog stick back. There are two variations of this. One is where when you get back onstage, Snake still plants his C4. The other is where you perform the reverse late enough so that the animation is canceled when you drift back.[/collapse]


What is a SCAC?
SCAC (Special Charge Airdodge Cancel) [Certain Characters] - Certain characters have windows in their aerial specials in which they can be cancelled by inputting an airdodge. Depending on the timing, the special will either be cancelled into a normal fall or into an actual airdodge.

Key-

[AD]: Airdodge; when canceled, puts you into an airdodge
[IF]: Idle Fall; puts you into an idle fall
(A): Always; always puts you in the following action
(TD): Timing Dependent; followed by timings

[collapse=list of compatible characters/moves]Donkey Kong: Giant Punch(TD);[AD]input airdodge during charging sparkle [IF]input airdodge between sparkles
Diddy Kong: Peanut Popgun(TD); [IF]hold special and hold shield during frame 14 [AD] input shield frome frame 14 / after frame 13
R.O.B.: Gyro(TD); [IF]input airdodge during opening frames [AD]input airdodge after opening frames
Shiek: Needles(A)[IF]
Mario: FLUDD(A)[AD]
Lucario: Aura Sphere(A)[AD]
Squirtle: Water Gun(A)[AD][/collapse]
[collapse=DK Punch Analysis by Yikarur]
Info about the giant punch:
First: Dks spins his arm at least one time, from that time, you can input Shield and DK will interupt the next spin always on the same spot, also: he finishes the spin he is doing.
Example:

DK Spins his arms 10 times
DK Punch Charge Time in Air: 127
Start-up: 1-8
Spin 1: 9-20
Spin 2: 21-32
Spin 3: 33-44
Spin 4: 45-56
Spin 5: 57-68
Spin 6: 69-80
Spin 7: 81-92
Spin 8: 93-104
Spin 9: 105-116
Spin 10: 117-127 (you are in idle fall in frame 128)

Spin Cancel Ending lag: 7
Example: if you cancel the first spin you're in idle fall in frame 28.

so know you're asking "when are you cancel the spin into an airdodge?"
the answer: you aren't. DK Punch always cancels into idle fall.
The Reasons you're airdodging is Brawls Buffering System.
Spin Cancel has 7 frames ending lag and Brawl has a 10 frame buffering window.
If you press "shield" to cancel the first spin in frame 18-20 you can move in frame 28 and buffer an airdodge because you inputted "shield" in frame 18 and the action ends 10 frames later, in frame 28.



[/collapse]
Characters not listed have no SCACable specials

How to Perform: Input a cancellable special while in the air, then input an airdodge in the desired effect's window.
Examples-
[collapse=~Gyro Cancelling (R.O.B.)] - The popular name used when refering to cancelling R.O.B.'s aerial Gyro Charge. Usually refers to the more optimal cancel which leads to a normal fall.[/collapse]
[collapse=~Giant Punch Cancel (Donkey Kong)] - The popular name used to refer to cancelling Donkey Kong's aerial Giant Punch charge. When an airdodge is input during a sparkle effect, an airdodge occurs. When an airdodge is input between sparkle effects, a normal fall is induced. (this is not because the move actually goes into airdodge, but because of buffering.)[/collapse]


What is an ALFC?

ALFC (Attack Land Fall Cancel) [Certain Characters] - Certain characters have attacks that, when spaced correctly, will automatically cancel into a fall upon reaching the edge. Some will sweetspot the ledge, while others will give you enough time to pull out a quick aerial similar to CASAed specials.

What is neccessary for a move to be able to be ALFCed?

Specifications for an ALFC:
All that is neccessary for a move to be ALFC compatible is that it does compromise your momentum and direction to the x-axis, to some degree, and that it lift the character's frame off the ground.


Key-

[F]: Fall; puts your character into a normal fall. When fall is possible, ledgesnap is always implied as well
[SF]: Special Fall; puts your character into helpless
[LS]: Ledgesnap; auto ledgesnaps the ledge
[DF]: Delayed Fall; puts your character into fall, but does not allow extra inputs instantly. When delayed fall is possible, ledgesnap is implied as well, unless it is a DFNS
[DFNS]: Delayed Fall No Snap; puts your character into delayed fall, but too far away to make a ledgesnap possible
[DE]: Desynch; only applies to the Ice Climbers on slanted edges. Desynchs them
[SFS]: Special Fall Snap; only applies to the Ice Climbers on flat edges. Puts them into a special fall but then autosnaps the ledge.
[OS]: Onstage; makes your character fall onstage. Never allows an extra input to be completed.

[collapse=Flat Edge ALFCancels]Captain Falcon: Falcon Kick[F]
Ganondorf: Wizard's Foot[F]
Metaknight: Drill Rush[F]
Pikachu: Skull Bash[LS]
Ice Climbers: Squall Hammer[SFS]
Luigi: Green Missile[DF]
Bowser: Flying Fortress[SF]
Donkey Kong: Kong Spin[SF]
Squirtle: Rapid Spin[F]*(1)
Peach: Peach Bomber[DFNS]
Shiek: Vanish[SF]/[LS]*(2)
Zelda: Farore's Wind[F][/collapse]
[collapse=Slanted Edge ALFCancels]Pikachu: Quick Attack[F(OS)]*(3), Skull Bash[DFNS]
Ice Climbers: Squall Hammer[SF]/[DE]*(3)
Ganondorf: Wizard's Foot[F]
Captain Falcon: Falcon Kick[F]
Squirtle: Rapid Spin[F]
Metaknight: Drill Rush[F]
Luigi: Green Missile[DF]
Donkey Kong: Kong Spin[SF]
Bowser: Flying Fortress[SF]
Fox: Fire Fox[OS]
Falco: Fire Falcon[OS]
Wolf: Flying Wolf[OS]
Diddy Kong: Monkey Flip[F]
Zelda: Farore's wind[F]
Shiek: Vanish[SF]/[LS][/collapse]
Characters not listed have no ALFCable moves


Article written by: Indigo Jeans
 

Luxor

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Oh, that's cool.

Serously, I think Falcon's airwalk in note (1) is a ledge-cancelled Falcon Kick, but on most stages he just can't drift back onstage quick enough, which the weird YI:B ledges let him do. I bet you could get similar results ledge cancelling Ganon's Wizard Kick or MK's Drill Rush, on Yoshi's if nowhere else.
 
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Lux: Why yes sir, you are correct. It is indeed a LCFK, as per vernacular term creation. Though I just think it could somehow allow an airwalk, not saying it is an airwalk itself. LCFK to insta-knee is ****.

rPSI: Nope, that's the complete list. :C I seriously thought there'd be more, but once you think about it... nah.
 

Remzi

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Just found out Marth can airwalk with a b-reversal shield breaker. Pretty cool :)
 
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Now that I'm thinking about it, would a BDJCF be a good way to get rid of RCO lag? You can buffer DJ out of lots of things, for instance ledge getup.
 

Veril

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<3

Indigo Jeans with the lists!

It might be worth noting that aerials which lift a characters hurtbox are most likely to allow for airwalking and platform EAC pseudo wavelanding.
 

phi1ny3

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Oh yeah, Lucario's downB can airwalk albeit under more specific conditions. I did a Reverse DT once in friendlies on YI, and it started from onstage and made a huuuuuuge slide off the edge and continued (I would say it might've even extended it, but I don't know for sure about that since DT has different speeds in moving in the air and ground) when normally it would've stopped on a normal stage edge, iirc.

I'll look into this a little more.
 
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Sorry Lux. BDJCF stands for Buffered Double Jump Cancelling Fire. As said in note 2, the PK Kids can cancel their buffered DJs with PK Fire. Meaning, for example, that if you ledge getup, you can buffer a jump during getup to perform a DJ, but before the action is executed, input a PK Fire to cancel it, putting you into a landing lag animation. I think that this could be used to get rid of RCO lag. BDJCF, I'm assuming, works on the same mechanics as Yoshi's Draconic Reverse, seeing as you can BDJ with Yoshi then cancel it with an aerial a la BDJCF. The cool thing is that you can BDJ during the landing lag of PK fire to do a string of continuous BDJCFs. Looks flashy.

Veril: I actually tried that with Fox's Fair. You'll see that using Fair at the peak of your jump will give you temporarily increased aerial mobility and floatiness. I'm still toying around with it. I'm also interested in Snake's platform fall-through cancelling Bair. You tap down to fall through, but input a Bair at the same time. It screws over Snake's frame so much that you end up doing a grounded Bair. Pretty neat imo.

Wait, so you did a reverse DT, but the momentum carried over onto the ground?
Edit: Was it anything like this by chance?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHqsET-rxQE
I'm having a little bit of trouble visualizing what you said.
 

Luxor

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Interesting. Does this mean the "Ledge-Cancelled Falcon Kick" and all the rest don't really need a ledge after all? Falcon Kicking into knee is sweet off the ledge, like you said, but imagine doing it onstage. New Falcon CP? Anyway, cool.
 

Veril

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Indigo there are a ton of platform fall through cancels: MK's dair, Marth dair, Lucas dair, Snake bair, Ness dair, possibly ZSS f/bair, pretty much most dair's...

EAC pseudo wavelanding is using an aerial that compresses or moves the model upwards very slightly, notably with the platform on smashville, and landing it during the early autocancel frames. Lucas can do it with his upair, Marth can do it with fair, etc.

I've been looking into all sorts of movement AT's for a long long time so we should talk.

Ledge-canceled Falcon Kick requires a ledge, same with Ganon's wizkick cancel, Zelda's up-b ledge cancel, Pikachu's QA ledge cancel, MK's side-b cancel. They don't require a grabbable ledge, but they need an edge cause the way they work is a character enters a grounded ending animation WHERE THEY ARE STILL NOT ACTUALLY GROUNDED. This has a frame window (11 frames iirc for MK's sideb cancel where if you are in the right position it'll work) that allows the momentum of the move to carry the opponent off during this period of time, so instead of having the rest of that lag its canceled because the character isn't in contact with the ground... afaik that's how it works. Don't know about the code-aspect of it but I've tested this quite a bit.

With MK's side-b grounded ending, it looks like he does a little flip, which lifts him off the ground very slightly. If you move offstage when he's in that state it cancels
 

phi1ny3

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Sorry Lux. BDJCF stands for Buffered Double Jump Cancelling Fire. As said in note 2, the PK Kids can cancel their buffered DJs with PK Fire. Meaning, for example, that if you ledge getup, you can buffer a jump during getup to perform a DJ, but before the action is executed, input a PK Fire to cancel it, putting you into a landing lag animation. I think that this could be used to get rid of RCO lag. BDJCF, I'm assuming, works on the same mechanics as Yoshi's Draconic Reverse, seeing as you can BDJ with Yoshi then cancel it with an aerial a la BDJCF. The cool thing is that you can BDJ during the landing lag of PK fire to do a string of continuous BDJCFs. Looks flashy.

Veril: I actually tried that with Fox's Fair. You'll see that using Fair at the peak of your jump will give you temporarily increased aerial mobility and floatiness. I'm still toying around with it. I'm also interested in Snake's platform fall-through cancelling Bair. You tap down to fall through, but input a Bair at the same time. It screws over Snake's frame so much that you end up doing a grounded Bair. Pretty neat imo.

Wait, so you did a reverse DT, but the momentum carried over onto the ground?
Edit: Was it anything like this by chance?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHqsET-rxQE
I'm having a little bit of trouble visualizing what you said.
Not quite. Let's see if I can make a visual:
.. = normal ledge
%-- = YI ledge
$ = Lucario
_ = stage
\
__
/ = offstage area
ex. FD:
starting position:
\
___
.._$_____
\
__
/
after performing DT towards edge:
\
___
.$._____
\
__
/
as you can see, in a normal scenario, he doesn't fall of the ledge, he does what moves like egg roll/aether do.

however, I made it happen so that when you're on YI (this is a grounded DT, btw) and you move:
before
\
___
%-$-_____
\
__
/

notice that he's within the tapered slope boundary, now when he performs DT:
\
___
%--_____
\$
__
/

He makes a tremendous slide off the stage, I think it's because of the angling it becomes an aerial DT. Now that I think about it, it's probably a different mechanic, probably related to what causes this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZH8V3wxFkc

should've probably used brawlbox to illustrate, but this might be enough.
 
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Lux, sorry for the confusion. On YI, because of the dent, when certain characters do an ACAF, it is because the games registers them as "airborne" from the slant. However, we know that this isn't the case, and they land onstage, close to the ledge. However, as Veril beat me to itstated, moves like Falcon Kick and Wizard's Foot need a large enough fall off to be cancelled into aerials, etc. I'm nearly done compiling my two lists, so bear with me.

Veril; Great great, this means you and I are on the same age about why these "ledge cancels" happen. Though from what I've seen with Falcon Kick cancel, it is the result of the onstage end animation going off the edge. This is what causes the cancel.

Ah, I gotcha Phil. I see what you mean.

Also, posting to confirm that BDJFC works on the same mechanics as Draconic Reverse. I've already gotten down Continuous Cancel Strings out of ledge getup, doublejump land, jump1 land, PK Fire landing lag, and Dair landing lag. I've also gotten down Cancel Dashing, dashing and then doing a sliding BDJFC and Reverse Cancel Dashing. Looks really nifty.

Finally, putting in a request to work with Veril to put together an EAC pseudowaveland list. :p
 
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Alright, I said I would update this shortly after that last post, and I failed to deliver. I'm sorry. I was booted off the computer. As such, this was written in unorganized fragments. Please, ask for clarification or the such if any is needed.
 

Yikarur

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I can't imagine what this "ALFC" is supposed to be, maybe I just don't get the explanation..

and you should write "input shield" instead of "input airdodge" in the SCAC, well that's just my opinion but you technically don't input "airdodge" but you're inputting "shield" in air and you don't cancel a lot of things you presented into an airdodge, that's why I find the title misleading "Special Charge AIRDODGE cancel"

and I correct and add a bit. Everything bolded is rewritten by me.

Key-
[AD]: Airdodge; when canceled, puts you into an airdodge
[IF]: Idle Fall; puts you into an idle fall
[AE]: Animation End; only applies to Snake -> I wanted to say that you should remove Snake of this list because he acts differently, this is not true, after I finished my DK Punch Research I had to admin that [AE] fits DK as well in a strange manner. Read further for infos
(A): Always; always puts you in the following action
(TD): Timing Dependent; followed by timings
------
Donkey Kong: Giant Punch(TD);[AD]input airdodge during charging sparkle [IF]input airdodge between sparkles you can completly rewrite this one, I found out how this works, see far below for information

Diddy Kong: Peanut Popgun [IF]hold special and hold shield during frame 14[AD] input shield frome frame 14 / after frame 13
R.O.B.: Gyro(TD); [IF]hold airdodge in frame 16 [AD]input shield from frame 16 / after frame 15

tbd: we have to choose "from frame X" or "after frame X" which wording fits/sounds better

Shiek: Needles(A)[IF]
Mario: FLUDD(A)[AD]
Lucario: Aura Sphere(A)[AD]
Squirtle: Water Gun(A)[AD]
Snake: Nikita(A)[AE]



[collapse=DK Punch Analysis]
Info about the giant punch:
First: Dks spins his arm at least one time, from that time, you can input Shield and DK will interupt the next spin always on the same spot, also: he finishes the spin he is doing.
Example:

DK Spins his arms 10 times
DK Punch Charge Time in Air: 127
Start-up: 1-8
Spin 1: 9-20
Spin 2: 21-32
Spin 3: 33-44
Spin 4: 45-56
Spin 5: 57-68
Spin 6: 69-80
Spin 7: 81-92
Spin 8: 93-104
Spin 9: 105-116
Spin 10: 117-127 (you are in idle fall in frame 128)

Spin Cancel Ending lag: 7
Example: if you cancel the first spin you're in idle fall in frame 28.

so know you're asking "when are you cancel the spin into an airdodge?"
the answer: you aren't. DK Punch always cancels into idle fall.
The Reasons you're airdodging is Brawls Buffering System.
Spin Cancel has 7 frames ending lag and Brawl has a 10 frame buffering window.
If you press "shield" to cancel the first spin in frame 18-20 you can move in frame 28 and buffer an airdodge because you inputted "shield" in frame 18 and the action ends 10 frames later, in frame 28.



[/collapse]

long post is finished :D xD
 
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Sure thing. I'll get right on it.

Yika, that frame data for DK punch is nice and all, but... I think mebbe you should post that somewhere in the DK boards. I tried to make this as visual as possible, because that's what's most useful overall to people. Anyone can visualize animation, but not everyone can visualize animation per frame. However, I hadn't though about the airdodge happening because of buffering- that's sure is handy to know. I thought it was just a programmed attribute of the move.

Edit: Done with the public release version.
 

KayLo!

Smarter than your average wabbit.
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Ancient bump, but someone from the Zelda boards brought to my attention that ledgewarping (ledge canceled Farore's Wind) works for Zelda. I dunno if it fits your definition anywhere, but if she comes out of a ledgewarp, she can drift offstage, then drift back on, which she can't do out of a normal run.
 
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