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mixups, options selects, and gimmicks

Ryzol_

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
176
Location
Greenville, SC (school) Charlotte, NC(break)
This is something that isn't talked about as much as it should be, and would have helped me a lot to explicitly know the different ways CF can get in, and how to stay in once he's there. This is incomplete as I don't have the experience with CF to know his best options in a variety of situations.

Mixup - A situation that forces a guessing game between various options. Example: Sheiks dsmash and grab. Grab beats shield, dsmash beats spotdodge.
Option Select - Covering multiple guesses with one choice. Example: Using raptor boost to tech chase covers in place, missed, and one of the rolls.
GImmick - Some move that only works on confused/tired opponents, or someone who has never seen it before. Can often be countered on reaction if you know what to look for, or something that only works once a set. Example: Samus's double missile spam.

Mixups:
  • Grab vs. Aerial - Run up to someone as if you are going to grab, but knee/dair instead. Works well on people who spotdodge often. The trick is to basically be inside them when you jump.
  • Block high vs. block low - There's a way to time dair so it shield stabs the feet. They can protect their feet by angling the shield down, but then their head is vulnerable to knee. Early/rising knee will hit the head, and so will a nair.
  • Falco's Lasers - Nair goes over low ones, raptor boost/falcon kick go under high ones. Raptor boost is very unsafe. You need to be at about 1/2 of raptor boost's max range for it have a chance of hitting, and you need to predict when they will laser.
Option Selects:
  • Tech chasing: rolls vs. other - You can regrab a techroll on reaction, if you expect one.
  • Tech chasing: in place/missed vs. rolls - You can time it so that a knee/stomp will hit both a missed tech and a tech in place. You want to jump about right as they hit the ground.
  • Tech chasing: roll1/missed/in place vs. roll 2 - Raptor boost just as someone lands. If you space this right you will cover 3/4 options. You want to space it so you are basically ontop of where they hit the ground when you raptor boost.
  • Tech chasing: Cover all options by the corner - If you throw them and they land near the edge a raptor boost away from the corner covers all the options. I'm actually a little iffy on this, if they tech roll towards the edge invincibility frames on the tech roll might save them, BUT you might recover fast enough to be able to punish them on reaction.

Gimmicks:
  • Moonwalking - It looks weird and you come at them funny, but outside of edgeguarding it's only use is looking cool and confusing some people.
  • Ledgehop -> Falconkick - Can you get you back on stage once or twice a set.
  • SVA using raptor boost/fsmash - Can turn people trying to grab you into kills. Gimmicks because people don't actually need to grab falcon to win, and these moves are very unsafe on whiff. This is less gimmicky against aerials.
 

Windrose

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
1,470
Nevertheless I learned something so thank you for sharing. One of the things I am working on right now is mixing things up and being less predictable.
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
I've been thinking more and more about this aspect of gameplay lately... why? Because there's an entire part of gameplay that's just looking at how people tech and which options are viable. For example....

You: downthrow fox, stand still until they hit the ground
Fox: DI away, tech away
You: have no options

or,

You: downthrow fox, dash towards where they are DIing
Fox: DI away, tech in place/roll, or no tech
You: either regrab, techchase or stomp/knee in place

In the first example by standing still when they DI away... you're basically giving them a guaranteed option that you will NOT be able to capitalize. Stuff like that I feel I should be thinking about more often
 

Windrose

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
1,470
Shouldn't you always be following their DI ??

I know sometimes SS liked to not do anything and the opponent thinks it's safe so they just tech in place which gets kneed in the face.
 

Walt

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
894
Location
Concord, CA
Last time I played him SS would throw me then just short hop and wait, if no tech or tech in place he will in fact knee you in the face or if you roll he FFs and JC grabs you. I think this only works at 0% on Falcon because of his terrible roll speed so you can catch up to tech away, but you can do it at mid-percent on spacies and is actually a really strong technique to force a bad tech and start the knee/stomp ****.
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
Moonwalking is a terrible gimmick because Falcon can almost always get the 2nd hit no matter how stupidly far away the person seems to be flying

I've missed so many combo finishes because I'd misjudge the initial hit and start a moonwalk

The corner cases where moonwalking is actually effective are rare enough that not being tempted to moonwalk in cases where you shouldn't be is better in the long run until you've gotten it ingrained in your system to always go for that combo

Moonwalking like killed my combo game until recently when I resolved to never moonwalk after getting a hit

/random rant
 

FireFly

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 6, 2005
Messages
1,138
Location
Hawaii
Moonwalking is for fun! Watch Silent Spectre and you'll find out. And then start chain moonwalking, it's super fun!
 

ETWIST51294

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
8,694
Location
Captain Falcon
I think Jeapie is the best at implementing moonwalks into his play.
Idk why he said that anyways, SS stopped using moonwalks in like 09. I gotta relearn how to multimoonwalk. That's what I get for not playing this game for like 2 months.
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
Multiwalking is like ... even more useless
Cept I'm like pretty good at them for no real reason
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
It's not even that cool though ¬.¬
Hitting stuff and being fast is way cooler in my book
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
Falcon is too easy to edgecancel with
It's not cool unless you're doing something practical like edgecancel knee -> nipple spike
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
Falcon is too easy to edgecancel with
It's not cool unless you're doing something practical like edgecancel knee -> nipple spike
the only thing i can consistently edgecancel is waveland off the top platform of yoshis and repeatedly stomp the edges of the platform lol

that is so fun to do and it looks funny too
 

Shaka03

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
17
I've got one fun gimmick:

Up + B on shield - If I've full hopped over my enemy, and he remains in shield, fast fall and up + B before you hit the ground.

This is of course worse than just FF and grabbing their shield; however, this looks funny as hell and demoralizes your opponent.
 

Shaka03

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
17
Also, another decent Option Select vs. Fox is down smash.

If you're placed correctly (so the tip of the foot hits Fox where he lands) it covers 3/4 tech options: missed tech, tech in place, or tech-in. The second, backwards kick of the down smash syncs with fox's tech roll-in time.

Therefore, you can cover 3/4 of Fox's options with Raptor boost, with the "towards" option open, and you can cover 3/4 options with down smash, leaving the "away" option open. This lends itself towards conditioning an enemy: if you keep down smashing, then they learn to tech away. Once they believe this habit is safe, you can Raptor boost.
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
I like doing edge cancelled aerial side bs on top platform of battlefield... i actually incorporated that **** into my game today LOL
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
also... wtf i keep finding cool edgecancels the more I play, e.g. second jump from the side of the battlefield platforms into an aerial cancels off the opposite edge of the top platform... so sexy... so applicable

loool
 

Shaka03

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
17
Correction: down smash has different timings for tech in place + tech away vs. missed tech.

For the missed tech: you down smash immediately when they touch the ground, or else they can get-up attack. If you do this, you will miss the tech in place and the tech towards you. The hitboxes do not stay out long enough.

For the tech in-place and the tech towards you: you down smash just after they touch the ground, when they would stand up. (It will also hit the missed tech if they do not immediately use a get-up attack, however. Thus this CAN cover three options, but does not necessarily.)
 

NeoZ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
955
Those aren't option selects.
I don't even think melee even has option selects, but correct me if I'm wrong.
 

NeoZ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
955
wth is an option select
IIRC it's when you input something that could be more than one move, and the game decides which one comes out, depending on what's going on. So you're not actually covering multiple choices with one move, you're doing it with one input that can be multiple moves.

For example, in fighting games where normal grabs can only happen within a certain range, inputting the command for a normal throw outside of said range gives you a normal attack, if you're opponent moves backwards he gets hit(or blocks), if he doesn't he gets grabbed.
 

Acryte

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
986
Pressing L when goin for sweetspot. If you get the sweetspot then cool, if they hit you, you can edge tech it.
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
IIRC it's when you input something that could be more than one move, and the game decides which one comes out, depending on what's going on. So you're not actually covering multiple choices with one move, you're doing it with one input that can be multiple moves.

For example, in fighting games where normal grabs can only happen within a certain range, inputting the command for a normal throw outside of said range gives you a normal attack, if you're opponent moves backwards he gets hit(or blocks), if he doesn't he gets grabbed.
wth does IIRC mean.

also melee doesnt seem to have option selects by this definition >_>
 

Walt

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
894
Location
Concord, CA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHHoGHcgK9k
GG
whoever has been using the term option select in melee doesnt know what theyre talking about, it seems.
SF and melee both use the term option select but it's used in a much different fashion, it's used more literally in melee as in you select an option obviously. Often it's more option covering than actually selecting. In melee it's actually selecting the option that will cover the most choices the opponent can take, covering the mostly likely ones, trying to use meta-knowledge to figure out which seldom, or perhaps even "nooby" choice they will take to in turn make you guess wrong also using their meta-knowledge. So instead of doing an input that will allow you to make a choice from a buffered input followed by the final press to make an action go off you pick where and what you can do that will eliminate how many ways they have of escaping. They are the same concept just done differently because of the differences in the game.
 
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