Misinterpreting Sakurai.

[OrlanduEX]

Though many will disagree with me, I think many in the Smash community are prematurely jumping to conclusions about what will and won't appear/reappear in Brawl based on some comments that have been posted on the Dojo by Sakurai.

First of all, there's the Lucas update. Everyone seems to have decided that Ness is removed from Brawl because Sakurai said that Ness has been in the series "up until now" as if to say that he wont be around anymore. The "up till now" part is actually a mistranslation. Also, that phrase has been used in other updates referring to things that have already returned. Until the game comes out or Sakurai explicitly states that Ness is gone, I don't think we should rule out a long time Smash veteran with so little evidence.

Next is the Wario costume update. The update says "Everyone can change colors, of course. But Wario alone is special". This seems to say that only Wario has a special costume, but this may not exactly be the case. We already know that mistranslations can skew Sakurai's original message. Let's not forget the whole "going-gold" theory that Samurai Panda debunked.

Besides the updates, there a lot of other claims being made on faulty logic. For example, many claim that Ike will replace Marth because Sakurai is only including the most up-to-date characters from each franchise. This is a weak, yet widely accepted claim. Ike and Marth play almost nothing alike based on Gimpyfish's impressions, thus Ike does not "replace" Marth in anyway. They're totally different characters. Besides, can you see any reason why such a popular, unique and widely used character like Marth should be removed?

I think we should reconsider these kinds of half-theories and quick assumptions. Well maybe I'm thinking too wishfully with the alternate costume thing, but you get what I mean.

EDIT: It seems I was wrong about the translation. The Japanese and English sites send a similar message. And I know I'm just being too optimistic concerning the costumes, but I still feel that people are jumping to conclusions without conclusive evidence. We can't be sure what will or won't be in Brawl besides what's posted on the Dojo, so we shouldn't be so sure about these things without conclusive evidence.

 

[gangstajuice02]

only important characters will appear in brawl!

 

[Kittah4]

This entire thread is based on faulty logic. SamuraiPanda debunked all three of those possibilities. He showed that the Japanese carried the same theme or message as the English ones, and the "Gone Gold" thing wasn't even on the official site.

 

[XeroHarsh]

You and slowpoke should get together, you would make a great couple.

 

[GhostAnime]

Next is the Wario costume update. The update says "Everyone can change colors, of course. But Wario alone is special". This seems to say that only Wario has a special costume, but this may not exactly be the case. We already know that mistranslations can skew Sakurai's original message.

well, I guess you're alone when it comes to interpreting alone all by yourself.

other people in the world of logic know Wario IS alone with that featur.e

 

[Kurizu208]

The up until now i can agree with but the wario alone is special thing is pretty solid.

 

[Superninjabreadman]

only important characters will appear in brawl!

All characters are important in their own series. so I agree with you.

Importance to Nintendo means nothing.

The up until now i can agree with but the wario alone is special thing is pretty solid.

In the Japanese Translation it could mean that Wario is the only one to do this, or Wario is special (Not the only one special) which is what we'd all want.

 

[Darkurai]

Ironic. You used SamuraiPanda to support your post, but in the end, SamuraiPanda was what proved you wrong.

 

[OrlanduEX]

This entire thread is based on faulty logic. SamuraiPanda debunked all three of those possibilities. He showed that the Japanese carried the same theme or message as the English ones, and the "Gone Gold" thing wasn't even on the official site.

Even if the Japanese site sends a similar message to the English one, I still think it's naive to draw conclusions without solid evidence. The fact that Ness has been in Smash "up until now" doesn't mean that he is gone. The fact that Ike is present in Brawl doesn't mean that Marth is gone.

 

[EPX2]

Once again, "up until now" is not a mistranslation; that quote says basically the exact same thing in all languages, as translations have shown. However, the quote doesn't say, "Ness will not be in Brawl"; it simply says, "Ness has been in all past installments of the SSB series." It doesn't say that Ness will be out of the game nor does it suggest that he will be in it; it is merely a statement of the obvious.

Also, in regards to the point about Wario: you brought up the "up until now" issue but there's a clear difference - there are at least two logical ways to interpet that quote based off concrete evidence. There's only one way to read that sentence from the Wario update without trying to suggest that it's in respect to something that we've seen no evidence for (someone on GameFAQs theorized that it was saying Wario is the only character whose alternate costumes do not need to be unlocked, which is a completely ridiculous idea for several reasons): Wario is the only character with alternate costumes.

 

[Kittah4]

Even if the Japanese site sends a similar message to the English one, I still think it's naive to draw conclusions without solid evidence. The fact that Ness has been in Smash "up until now" doesn't mean that he is gone. The fact that Ike is present in Brawl doesn't mean that Marth is gone.

I dunno how much more solid evidence you want, unless you're calling both Sakurai and SamuraiPanda liars.

While I mourn for the loss of alternate costumes besides Wario and Ness, I've accepted that they probably won't make it, and I will be intensely surprised if they do.

 

[Darkurai]

Even if the Japanese site sends a similar message to the English one, I still think it's naive to draw conclusions without solid evidence. The fact that Ness has been in Smash "up until now" doesn't mean that he is gone. The fact that Ike is present in Brawl doesn't mean that Marth is gone.

SamuraiPanda said that the English is a dead-on translation of the Japanese.

 

[JohnnyInThePants]

Die...die die die! *shoots this thread until it dies*

 

[Ianthraxx]

I'm not sure how anyone, anywhere, EVER, could misinterpret "Wario alone is special".
Wario, *ALONE*, is special. He is the only one.

There is no room for misinterpretation here.

 

[XACE-K]

Wario alone is special,I never would have guessed (sarcasm).

 

[Indignant]

Of course, with the Wario thing, it could be for Characters we know about. It's clutching at straws, yes, and I don't believe it, but it is a possibility.

 

[Ninja-Z]

Regardless of what the translation explicitly states, I doubt Ness will be in based on what we know. Lucas has several of Ness's old moves and several new ones, so it seems to me like putting Ness in would be redundant, seeing as Lucas is a new-and-improved version of him.

 

[bballstar23]

You know the up until now phrase is not the only evidence people are using against Ness' inclusion. There is still the issue about Sakurai wanting to replace him with Lucas back in Melee too. I also really don't know that many people who actually think Marth has been replaced.

 

[verditude]

Prophet predicted Ness, and up until now means nothing. Since Sakurai hasn't announced Ness yet, he is, in update-speak, not in Brawl yet. So, he is in up until now and can be put in (read announced) later.

 

[thekicker]

i think ness has a small chance being in brawl. Any ways they might not announce everything on the website.

 

[F00DisG00D]

"Everyone can change colors, of course. But Wario alone is special..."

Notice the ellipsis (dot-dot-dot). That means that something was omitted. As far as we know it could be anything that explains why Wario is different than the others. Such as:

• Wario is the only one with an alt. costume.
• Wario is the only one that reverts back to an older look while others get newer looks.
• Wario has a simple costume change but other chars. become entirely diff. characters.
• Wario's costume is the only one that is not unlockable.

It could be anything so don't rule out alt. costumes for other chars. just yet.

 

[The Noob Legend]

It would be cool if you could download costumes for characters custom made each week by SSBB staff.
With fans contributing ideas of course.

 

[JonBeBonanza]

"Everyone can change colors, of course. But Wario alone is special..."

Notice the ellipsis (dot-dot-dot). That means that something was omitted. As far as we know it could be anything that explains why Wario is different than the others. Such as:

• Wario is the only one with an alt. costume.
• Wario is the only one that reverts back to an older look while others get newer looks.
• Wario has a simple costume change but other chars. become entirely diff. characters.
• Wario's costume is the only one that is not unlockable.

It could be anything so don't rule out alt. costumes for other chars. just yet.

you make an extremely good point

 

[Mr-Armageddon]

Warning noob question: What's the deal with the "gone gold" thing? What is that?

 

[The Noob Legend]

Warning noob question: What's the deal with the "gone gold" thing? What is that?

The game is being copied for distribution to stores.
It has been recently been known as a rumour.

 

[MookieRah]

I would like someone to cite the source where Sakurai said he wanted Lucas in melee. So far nobody has linked me to this, and I really really doubt this is the case. The simple fact that Mother 3 originally had either Ness or a character identical in appearance to Ness (like how Ness looks pretty much the same as Ninten from the first Mother game) in the old 64DD game that was being worked on is indication that Lucas probably wasn't even close to being finalized by the time melee came out.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I find it very odd that Sakurai would simply deconfirm Ness like that......when you consider how he likes to keep things secret and keep everyone guessing (that's what a lot of people believe anyway).

It's just really strange that sakurai would just do an update on Lucas and then just casually drop in the fact that ness is gone.

I agree with OrlandoEX on this, I may get flamed for saying that but I don't really care. People see a little shred of evidence which has every possibility of being completly fake and untrue and suddenly it's fact. Maybe people here should think a bit before coming to these kind of assumptions?

 

[Kittah4]

I would like someone to cite the source where Sakurai said he wanted Lucas in melee. So far nobody has linked me to this, and I really really doubt this is the case. The simple fact that Mother 3 originally had either Ness or a character identical in appearance to Ness (like how Ness looks pretty much the same as Ninten from the first Mother game) in the old 64DD game that was being worked on is indication that Lucas probably wasn't even close to being finalized by the time melee came out.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/0717/index.html

Paragraph in question quick translation:

To tell the truth at the beginning, it was the schedule which is modified in the protagonist of MOTHER3, but there being a variety, while detouring, it was settled in the original sheath.

So in other words, he wanted Mother3's protagonist to be in Melee. I guess he didn't care who he was.

 

[AdmantNESS]

A similar topic has been done before. To get more insight on this misintepretation stuff , read this topic.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=128811&highlight=original

 

[Darkfur]

The "up till now" part is actually a mistranslation.

I stopped reading there because that's wrong. Get your facts right before making topics like this.

 

[Ianthraxx]

"Everyone can change colors, of course. But Wario alone is special..."

Notice the ellipsis (dot-dot-dot). That means that something was omitted. As far as we know it could be anything that explains why Wario is different than the others. Such as:

• Wario is the only one with an alt. costume.
• Wario is the only one that reverts back to an older look while others get newer looks.
• Wario has a simple costume change but other chars. become entirely diff. characters.
• Wario's costume is the only one that is not unlockable.

It could be anything so don't rule out alt. costumes for other chars. just yet.

you make an extremely good point

I hope that's sarcrasm. That's a pretty ridiculous point. Is this one of the arguments that people use to defend their view?

If Sakurai were writing a formal english essay for us, and he was quoting someone directly, but omitted part of what they said, *THEN* you would be right.

But he's not. He's writing a quick blog on the internet. It's just his dramatic speech/typing.

 

[OrlanduEX]

I stopped reading there because that's wrong. Get your facts right before making topics like this.

While you're right in that this wasn't a mistranslation, this phrase was used in both the Standard combo update and the Handicap update. And both of those things are confirmed for Brawl albeit changed.

 

[T-major]

While you're right in that this wasn't a mistranslation, this phrase was used in both the Standard combo update and the Handicap update. And both of those things are confirmed for Brawl albeit changed.

yeah, there in brawl, BUT CHANGED. the old way is out, and a new way is in. in other words, "up until now, it was done this way. but now it's done like this" it's common English, that people are distorting too fit their wants... Ness is replaced by Lucas; even if it didn't say "up until now", Ness would still be replaced by Lucas, because they have the same moves. thats common logic that people are distorting to fit their wants.

people need to stop distorting stuff...

 

[RedKnight]

Ness isnt out because they he said "Up until now"

Hes out because Lucas has ALL his moves, AND because Sakurai has been trying to replace him since melee

 

[Santini]

I completely agree. I really don't think we can insinuate anything from five word sentences on unrelated Dojo updates. Especially considering that these are not the original words, but a translation.

The point is that I don't think alternate costumes or Ness are "deconfirmed."

 

[GhostAnime]

if anything, we can conclude alternate costumes deconfirmed. Ness at least has that "misinterpretation" factor but "Wario alone" is pretty solid for any logical person.

 

[Mic_128]

Like we havent had a billion topics about this.

Incidently, this topic was open, until now.