Q&A Mirror of Truth or Palutena's Advice? Both available at all hours of the day

[ReRaze]

I've found his dtilt useful in general, nice and quick and cool how he steps forward a bit to extend the range.

Anyway, this is great, as it may be a good option to hit people who re-grab a ledge. For some reason Down Smash hasn't been working for that, though maybe I'm just not hitting with the right part of the blade?

You have to hit down smash with the tip of the blade, both sides of dsmash work.

 

[Wintropy]

Effective in what way? Pit / Pitoo's n-air is good for racking up damage and maybe edgeguarding, but I've never seen it being used to stage-spike.

 

[Slonk]

Hey guys, sorry if this has already been asked, but I've been wondering...

I don't play Dark Pit but from his moves I'd say he's a more defensively based character than anything. Indeed, most Pits I fight have a campy/defensive playstyle. By contrast, almost every DP I play is extremely aggressive and never lets up on the pressure- most of them are far more aggressive even than the Little Macs or Falcons I see.

Does anyone know why that might be?

 

[ZephyrZ]

Dark Pit doesn't really have any tools for aggressive play that Pit doesn't. It could be about his arrows, I guess, but I find they usually do the trick for forcing approaches on flatter stages.

There are some For Glory scrubs who think Electroshock is the best thing since sliced bread and spam it. I was kind of like that at first, actually, but I've become better since then.

 

[Wa_Black]

Hey guys, sorry if this has already been asked, but I've been wondering...

I don't play Dark Pit but from his moves I'd say he's a more defensively based character than anything. Indeed, most Pits I fight have a campy/defensive playstyle. By contrast, almost every DP I play is extremely aggressive and never lets up on the pressure- most of them are far more aggressive even than the Little Macs or Falcons I see.

Does anyone know why that might be?

Probably because they best way to get kills with dp is to get them off the stage and edge guard. My goal is to get in the opponents face, land a grab, and try to convert it into a damage/kill set up depending on their percent.

Characters are defensive and offensive by what they can and can't do, not by their tools. Bowser is really slow and laggy, so he can't just lob moves like an offensive character like shiek or sonic can. Dp has some laggy moves, but he also has multiple jumps, quick dash, and amazing recovery. This allows him to be aggressive and since his best ways to kill are offstage, it's best to use his aggression to get them off stage and kill.

Dark Pit doesn't really have any tools for aggressive play that Pit doesn't. It could be about his arrows, I guess, but I find they usually do the trick for forcing approaches on flatter stages.

There are some For Glory scrubs who think Electroshock is the best thing since sliced bread and spam it. I was kind of like that at first, actually, but I've become better since then.

It could be that since dp doesn't have pit's control over his arrows, that instead of going for arrow set ups, it's better for dp try and close the gap. Electro shock is really good for when you're being aggressive. In certain ranges you can react and punish fireballs (promotes being close), whiff punish any smash or slow move with a hitbox (requires that you be in whiff punishing range), and the move knocks the opponent off stage for guards.

On paper, I think that dp wants to be close to his opponents at all times. Even though they're similar, I believe that because dp has less focus on his arrows, his energy gets spread out through his other moves like electro shock which is better than pit's as far as armor goes.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Characters are defensive and offensive by what they can and can't do, not by their tools.

...But a character's tools and stats control what they can and can't do.

Dark Pit's stats are exactly the same as Pit's. He has the same weight, the same speed, the same number of air jumps, ect.
Pit's arrows are the one tool that separates the two the most. While Pit can just snipe opponents who are off stage, Dark Pit is forced to chase them because he lacks Pit's gimping tool.

The point is that Dark Pit should play almost entirely the same as Pit does, so it doesn't make sense if one character is significantly more aggressive then the other. The two should be about equally as aggressive.

Edit: Seems I made this post while your were editing your own.
Fair enough, but it actually hasn't been proven that DP's Electroshock has better armor. That could very likely just be the placebo effect.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

I prefer fair.

 

[ProjectilePuff]

Effective in what way? Pit / Pitoo's n-air is good for racking up damage and maybe edgeguarding, but I've never seen it being used to stage-spike.

Well, on a few occasions the neutral aerial seems to send fighters upwards if in the right position of the blade spin and it's most likely that my foes had been sent upwards into the stage's spike-zone (as i like to title it now) and viola. If only i had more SD card space... to record my failure...

 

[Wintropy]

Well, on a few occasions the neutral aerial seems to send fighters upwards if in the right position of the blade spin and it's most likely that my foes had been sent upwards into the stage's spike-zone (as i like to title it now) and viola. If only i had more SD card space... to record my failure...

I've played Pit since the 3DS version's release and I've never seen that.

Good catch!

 

[ProjectilePuff]

I've played Pit since the 3DS version's release and I've never seen that.

Good catch!

Just the good ol' pittoo shenanigans.

 

[Strider755]

OK, so i'm considering running Dark Pit as one of my alts. I need someone with both quick and strong attacks, and I think Dark Pit fits that bill. Could ya'll tell me his pros and cons, and also some good combos?

 

[ArikadoSD]

Hey guys, I'm watching this set atm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z0qp7vwmQ4

and I wanted to ask, how do Pit/Dark Pit fair against diddy?

 

[gByron]

I am inclined to train pits just because of their beautiful character design. I use peach and ike. Ike s disjoints autocancels juggling pivot grabs peach s diversity in aggression and defence are already very good. Pit is fun and an easier character to pick but he seems too all around to bring something new to the table. What are pit s strengths and is he worth maining? Maybe his noticible dash speed and projectile can help me against zoners

 

[Charls]

Pit is a character that lives on virtue of his balanced matchups. As you said, he is a very well rounded character with the tools to excel against even the strongest characters in Smash 4. Because of this Pit does a great job as a secondary for various other characters since he patches up whatever bad matchups they may have. Keep in mind however that his spread might leave you wanting for more, and generally you will need to be at least of the same skill level as your opponent to consider winning. That's not to say Pit doesn't have some favorable matches either though, since his long ranged attacks and aerial superiority make him a huge threat to certain characters.

More specifically, yes Pit is worth maining in a competitive sense, but he'll require a bit of dedication if you expect to use just him as your main. Pit is arguably the best swordsman in the game because of his combination of traits lending to a diversity in playstyle, although he works best [in my opinion] as a defensive bait and approach character. It's hard to contest Pit on his well spaced attacks on the ground, and even harder in the air. His multiple jumps and lasting hitboxes are also a huge boon for edgeguarding, to say nothing of his fantastic Dair, which has a variety of uses and is one of the more reliable spikes in the game. Palutena Bow is not what it was in Brawl, but it still does its job baiting air-dodges and gimping bad or predictable recoveries. If you are having trouble against zoning characters or playstyles, than Pit will certainly help you deal with those. Between Palutena Bow (or any of his two other customs NeutralBs), Guardian Orbitars, and multiple jumps you'll find that, at the very least, those matches will feel less frustrating.

 

[Charls]

I've tried to recreate this against Megaman and other characters as well, but nothing so far. Could this be affected in any way by rage %s? Stage specific maybe? Has anyone else been able to get the spike effect?

 

[Funkermonster]

What would you summarize as Pits general pros and cons?

 

[LancerStaff]

What would you summarize as Pits general pros and cons?

Pros: Does almost everything well.

Cons: Almost. KO power is lacking, and his projectile loses against most campers. Not good with landing from juggles, but not terrible either.

 

[Furret]

What would you summarize as Pits general pros and cons?

pros: versatile projectile
strong recovery
good defensively

cons: poor approach
poor early killing power (holding exception to Bair)

 

[LancerStaff]

I remember something similar happening to me early on, but dismissed it as a stage spike. And with all the collective hours we've put into Pit I think we can safely say his Dtilt doesn't spike.

 

[LancerStaff]

pros: versatile projectile
strong recovery
good defensively

cons: poor approach
poor early killing power (holding exception to Bair)

Wouldn't say his approach is bad with lagless SH Fairs and Bairs, but he definitely prefers to be approached.

 

[gByron]

Pit is a character that lives on virtue of his balanced matchups. As you said, he is a very well rounded character with the tools to excel against even the strongest characters in Smash 4. Because of this Pit does a great job as a secondary for various other characters since he patches up whatever bad matchups they may have. Keep in mind however that his spread might leave you wanting for more, and generally you will need to be at least of the same skill level as your opponent to consider winning. That's not to say Pit doesn't have some favorable matches either though, since his long ranged attacks and aerial superiority make him a huge threat to certain characters.

More specifically, yes Pit is worth maining in a competitive sense, but he'll require a bit of dedication if you expect to use just him as your main. Pit is arguably the best swordsman in the game because of his combination of traits lending to a diversity in playstyle, although he works best [in my opinion] as a defensive bait and approach character. It's hard to contest Pit on his well spaced attacks on the ground, and even harder in the air. His multiple jumps and lasting hitboxes are also a huge boon for edgeguarding, to say nothing of his fantastic Dair, which has a variety of uses and is one of the more reliable spikes in the game. Palutena Bow is not what it was in Brawl, but it still does its job baiting air-dodges and gimping bad or predictable recoveries. If you are having trouble against zoning characters or playstyles, than Pit will certainly help you deal with those. Between Palutena Bow (or any of his two other customs NeutralBs), Guardian Orbitars, and multiple jumps you'll find that, at the very least, those matches will feel less frustrating.

Thanks for such an informative response. I havent decided if I am going to main him yet since I would look for some distinct qualities. But I really like his grab and baiting so far.

 

[Strider_123]

any way to break through r.o.b.'s grab and up attack combo?

 

[Wa_Black]

OK, so i'm considering running Dark Pit as one of my alts. I need someone with both quick and strong attacks, and I think Dark Pit fits that bill. Could ya'll tell me his pros and cons, and also some good combos?

+multiple jumps
+fast dash
+long-lasting aerials
+long range attacks
+reflector
+great recovery
+side b

-arrows aren't that good
-laggy moves
-up b can be hard to sweet spot
-up smash has a restricted hitbox that will basically only let you hit opponents directly above you and up tilt is virtually useless unless you're catching rolls, but you can use jab and get the same damage with less risk, and mix up options, so you don't have much a ground anti-air game, it's more beneficial to try and meet them and the air, block, or grab/attack them on their landing.
-multi-hitting moves can easily be the death of you if they don't all hit
-down smash isn't the best and with his laggy moves, it kind of makes you week to roll behinds, so you may just have to react and pivot grab.

it takes precision to hit aerials at the right spacing, you want to be comfortable with your opponent's falling speed so you can land frame traps, you want to use ftilt in a range where the opponent cannot roll behind you, use f smash and side b to punish charging smashes or laggy moves, and mix up when and where you up b.

 

[Strider755]

Hang on...up b does damage? I thought it was only for recovery, like SSBB Lucario's E-Speed.

Anyway, thanks fro the pointers.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I'll give you a quick idea of his combo game;
D-throw is his best combo starter.
At very low percents, D-throw -> Up Smash is a true combo.
Uair, Nair, and Fair are all great improv follow up moves. Nair and Uair are especially good because of their many active frames.

Hang on...up b does damage? I thought it was only for recovery, like SSBB Lucario's E-Speed.

I think he meant it sweet spots the ledge. It doesn't really do any damage.

....Just know that if you choose to main Dark Pit, you're missing out on Pit's really awesome arrows and not getting much in return.

 

[Strider755]

I'm kinda co-running Pit and Dark Pit; other than arrows and arms, there's no difference.

 

[Wa_Black]

I'm kinda co-running Pit and Dark Pit; other than arrows and arms, there's no difference.

I was referring to sweet spotting the ledge.

There is actually a big difference between pit and and dark because of the few changes among them. Pit's arrow flexibility allows him to get off a lot of frame traps, dark's side allows him to be more aggressive because of it's long duration of armor, and pit's ftilt kills earlier. Playing pit you'll be able to kill easier and playing dark you're going to want to mix up your opponent until you get their stock, but because pit is fundamentally good at his core both dark and pit are viable.

I also think dark pit might be more agile than pit; I keep hearing about how dark has one the best dashes, dash grabs, and pivot grabs, I've yet to hear that being said about pit, I assume that their the same, but that's just my assumption, no evidence to back it up.

If you want to play a more fundamental game, go with dark pit, if you want kills off frame traps and control, then go with pit. With customs it matters less because with the exception of ftilt, dark maintains his side b, but gains more arrow flexibility, but I think that's it's important to not down play a killing ftilt, which is a safer version of f smash, and I also believe it maybe his longest ranging move.

 

[ZephyrZ]

dark's side allows him to be more aggressive because of it's long duration of armor

Is there any frame data to support this?
Because I'm pretty sure the only difference between their arms is knockback angle and 0.5% damage.

I also think dark pit might be more agile than pit; I keep hearing about how dark has one the best dashes, dash grabs, and pivot grabs, I've yet to hear that being said about pit, I assume that their the same, but that's just my assumption, no evidence to back it up.

They're the same.

 

[Wa_Black]

Is there any frame data to support this?
Because I'm pretty sure the only difference between their arms is knockback angle and 0.5% damage.
They're the same.

The only data I have to go on is that fact that I don't trade with pits when we both side b at similar times and I get bodied when I try to side b with pit. I do have a capture card, so if you know a way where I can test the frames, I wouldn't be oppose to it to gain some concrete evidence because I know that all my experience could be chance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QvybWBDcwY
@2:08 it looks like they side be at the exact same time and Dark wins.

But if you would like to help me test it pm me because though i have the equipment, I don't know what to do in order to get a conclusive answer.

 

[Strider755]

OK; i'll keep running both for now. I use Dark Pit if i need the electroshock arm(or), and Pit if I need the gimps.

 

[Strider_123]

what do you guys think to be pit's safest move? air and ground? i think the nair and down smash. maybe dash attack?

 

[LancerStaff]

what do you guys think to be pit's safest move? air and ground? i think the nair and down smash. maybe dash attack?

Fair is most certainly his safest move, having incredible reach and no landing lag if used right.

Dash attack is pretty safe, but only if you hit the opponent's shield or they dodged the wrong way. Dtilt is fast and has decent reach. Probably better of with a SH Fair as far as safety goes, though.

 

[gByron]

what do you guys think to be pit's safest move? air and ground? i think the nair and down smash. maybe dash attack?

I love how people try to punish my dash attack and eat a forward smash right in their face. Dtilt pokes are safe cancelled fairs is good

 

[Strider_123]

Fair is most certainly his safest move, having incredible reach and no landing lag if used right.

how do you use it right if you don't mind me asking? i jump and attack just barely hitting them and they can block and strike me back. should i short hop? should i fast fall? or combine the 2 (short hop and fast fall)?

One a side note what moves are cancel-able? nair you can but thats all i really know of. im not even sure if i do it right.

 

[LancerStaff]

how do you use it right if you don't mind me asking? i jump and attack just barely hitting them and they can block and strike me back. should i short hop? should i fast fall? or combine the 2 (short hop and fast fall)?

One a side note what moves are cancel-able? nair you can but thats all i really know of. im not even sure if i do it right.

The best way to perform a perfect aerial is to press jump and a direction on the C-Stick at the same time. You can even do it with Uair by setting your C-Stick to tilts. Although a perfect Fair or Bair will miss shorter characters, you can delay the attack a moment to hit them and still get the cancel.

All of Pit's aerials can be SHFFed laglessly, although it's not worth it to fastfall on Uair and Dair, and maybe not Nair. Dair might not have any autocancel frames at all, it flat-out ends before you hit the ground from a short hop.

 

[Deleted member]

I want to beat Pikachu with Pit but every time I lose in competetive because it just grabs and repeatedly electrocutes me and i cant do anything and then itl just put me on its back after shocking 10+ times and shock even more causing a total of 40+ damage and its overall really annoying

Any tips on this?

 

[Deleted member]

Why dont I ever see Pit in competitive gameplay? Is he bad or just underrated

I Play pit all the time online and I never see an opposing one any reason?

 

[Strider_123]

Why dont I ever see Pit in competitive gameplay? Is he bad or just underrated

I Play pit all the time online and I never see an opposing one any reason?

I play him all the time to. I think he is just underrated, he's balanced and doesn't really excel at anything which turns some people off. That and people hear he can't kill and dies early. He can kill early though especially if you edge guard a lot. I think he dies somewhat early but that just depends on who you are vs-ing.
People just don't want to invest in him I guess which is a shame really. He's really good and has a move for every situation. I once beat someone who told me "your a great player but pit is not good competitively"
Obviously I didn't switch mains but I find it funny that someone would say that.

 

[Tsutori]

I guess to be technical, it might be a stage spike, but it has essentially the same effect as a spike if you manage to do it. In previous games, it's always been a move that has required extremely precise positioning to pull off. I don't think it has much to do with rage, but it could have something to do with what the ledge of a particular stage is like. Also looking at that video, Mega Man kind of jumped himself into the attack, so the opponent's movement is probably a big component as well.

 

[The Merc]

Hm, interesting. Here are my thoughts

1) I could be a stage spike but the problem with that is that if you look at the footage, the is no sign that Mega Man hit the stage has the is no bounce wave effect you you get say when you spike a person on stage.

2) He could have spike be but it is a weak spike like his hair. See, depending on the strength of the spike, it will either make or not make the sound effect. Here is a test you could do. Get Mario about 50% or so and have either Link or Ganon Spike him with either dair and you will get the sound effect and sonic boom look to. Now try that with Pit's dair and Robin's Elwin Spike and you should see that while you might get smoke, you don't get any sound effects.

Just my 2 cents