Miracle Of Light - Palutena in SSB4 (Featuring Cereza from Bayonetta-series)

[Admiral Pit]

I know that feeling as well. I keep watching that custom special vid for Palutena to remind me of how amazing she'd be with customs.
At least the wait is almost over.

And yes, I still hate that tier list (still too early). Palutena is much better than Ganon if anything. *pouts* We need more Palutena players to show off her potential. Just 28 hours left from my end.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

It's ok guys, she's not the worst character or low tier at all. She's just really underplayed and there's a lot more to learn of the Smash 4 metagame.

 

[meleebrawler]

You think those players just don't like her because of her baiting playstyle?
Almost all the top tiers on that list seemed like aggressive comboers.

 

[Neo Zero]

https://game8.jp/matome/14157

That feel when your character is the worst one in the game

Seriously, any tier list right now should be ignored.

 

[kmpyj]

Seriously, any tier list right now should be ignored.

That tier list is so pathetic it hurts. There are so many things wrong with this.

1. Palutena is definitely not bottom tier. I would say she is anywhere between a C to B tier.

2. Why is Kirby low tier? Kirby is very fluent and has great combo potential.

3. Why is Shulk low tier? He is the most unique character in the roster, and has great start ups. I say he should be between a B to A tier.

4. Megaman above Palutena? Really?

5. Peach should be at least a B tier. That glide mechanic had some serious buffs.

6. Why is Metaknight mediocre? He has been nurfed yes, but not that bad. He is still very good.

7. Why is Rob low tier? He had some serious buffs since brawl.

Overall, this tier list is not very wise. No one can make a clear judgment on any character in only 3 weeks. Not even me. The points I made above where just my first impressions. They can subject to change. But even still, tier lists in general do hold their own merits, but are ultimately just someone's opinion. Making a tier list this early for any fighting game doesn't show much credibility. You can't master a character in 3 weeks. Let alone the entire roster. Let other people try the game. Let them try the character. And even then, give it some years before you make a tier list.


BTW: Perfect picture. Completely identifies how I feel on this.

 

[Hydde]

A real tier lists takes years..and even then you get surprises.

Also i thinkthey are given little credit to ganon. He is not as trahsy as he was in brawl and his customs are very interesting.

 

[Nabbitnator]

That tier list is so pathetic it hurts. There are so many things wrong with this.

1. Palutena is definitely not bottom tier. I would say she is anywhere between a C to B tier.

2. Why is Kirby low tier? Kirby is very fluent and has great combo potential.

3. Why is Shulk low tier? He is the most unique character in the roster, and has great start ups. I say he should be between a B to A tier.

4. Megaman above Palutena? Really?

5. Peach should be at least a B tier. That glide mechanic had some serious buffs.

6. Why is Metaknight mediocre? He has been nurfed yes, but not that bad. He is still very good.

7. Why is Rob low tier? He had some serious buffs since brawl.

Overall, this tier list is not very wise. No one can make a clear judgment on any character in only 3 weeks. Not even me. The points I made above where just my first impressions. They can subject to change. But even still, tier lists in general do hold their own merits, but are ultimately just someone's opinion. Making a tier list this early for any fighting game doesn't show much credibility. You can't master a character in 3 weeks. Let alone the entire roster. Let other people try the game. Let them try the character. And even then, give it some years before you make a tier list.


BTW: Perfect picture. Completely identifies how I feel on this.

From what i see peach might be high b tier with that turnip manipulation thing. When i looked at the tier list i automatically saw it as bs.

 

[Tristan_win]

Don't let early tier list poison you, just ignore them and move on. Talking about them only draw more attention.... Anyways what is everyone preference?

Digital or Hard copy?

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Don't let early tier list poison you, just ignore them and move on. Talking about them only draw more attention.... Anyways what is everyone preference?

Digital or Hard copy?

Hard Copy, don't have to worry about making space on my SD Card, and having the case is nice.

 

[Tristan_win]

Hard Copy, don't have to worry about making space on my SD Card, and having the case is nice.

I agree, for a game like smash I would much prefer a case. Sadly the shipment of American Smash4 got delay to the base so...yeah digital copy for me....yay...

 

[Admiral Pit]

Same with Hard Copy. Plus you don't gotta wait for tedious downloads, especially if you get disconnected in the middle of it. That way, I can play the game right when I get it, and I want the case.

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

Don't let early tier list poison you, just ignore them and move on. Talking about them only draw more attention.... Anyways what is everyone preference?

Digital or Hard copy?

Hard Copy, always. I love physically owning the game.

 

[andimidna]

(Sorry, came here because I wanted to talk about the tier list)
I heard the list was based off of only 1 Japanese event?
And only took into account how around 120 people used the characters in that short time. (Not sure if this is accurate)

If thats the case, it was made because like always, people are curious and these lists are in high demand, its all a lot of fans are talking about right now. So I'm not surprised by this at all. I did get a good laugh out of Palutena in her own trash tier with Ganondorf. But the top does seem pretty close to what I'd have guessed. A, most of B, and half of C anyways. I wonder if these players even used customs. Or how many there were. It'd make sense that characters with higher learning curves would start lower and rise. New combos and other stuff are still being found. Not to mention at this moment the game is still only out in Japan, and that's just the 3ds version. So nobody has gotten to play the game on a Gamecube controller yet. This will probably happen some more times, because of high demand, and especially now as a reaction to this one. So just be prepared for that.
The first real tier list will probably be like a year after the Wii U version comes out and there's actual tournaments to analyze, where the players have learned all the characters and are playing the way they prefer. And the final one could be a good 5-8 years from now.

You don't have to look hard to find the proof: http://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_SSBB_tier_lists_(NTSC)
Bam. People wanted a tier list within a month or 2, but they decided it would be too inaccurate. They waited till September (8 months after Japan's release, 5 months after the West finally got it) and look how bad it is. Low-tier Zelda and High-tier Olimar are almost touching, except mid/high-tier Fox is inbetween them. Zelda was even higher than ZSS. And DK is higher than Ice Climbers, it wasn't even close to being right.
It even tells the story about Meta Knight and Snake. When it was first released, they were both considered somewhere around mid-tier, and when competitive players got their hands on them, they fought for the top of the list. Eventually the game developed and Meta Knight was discovered to be completely overpowered, and Snake slowly fell down to #5.
Also: http://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_SSBM_tier_lists_(NTSC)
Same deal here, Zelda is 11 spots above Jigglypuff.

I actually don't have anything against early tier lists. I'm curious too. Just saying, this one is probably gonna be more inaccurate than any of the others I just linked.
PS I hope Zelda doesn't end up falling a bunch like usual...

 

[Tristan_win]

...I remember those times, those were dark times when people honestly use to argue with me that Zelda was better then Sheik and then point to these tier list as some type of evidence.

Which is why to this day I call Zelda FAT

edit: ...Yeah I also hope Zelda isn't in the bottom. Even though I don't really like playing her I have used her a lot, possibly more then any other character after Sheik. I did find sitting while I wait for my opponent to approach rather amusing.

 

[Locuan]

Digital or Hard copy?

Digital, since I do not have car

 

[κomıc]

I prefer digital with 3DS games. I like having them on the system and ready to go. For consoles, mostly physical but I'm finding myself buying all my PS4 games digitally. Wii U is mostly physical for retail. It is weird. But thankfully, my download speeds are great.

Interesting tid bit: There was research done that claims buying physical is less harming to the environment than downloading digitally. Weird.

 

[kmpyj]

Don't let early tier list poison you, just ignore them and move on. Talking about them only draw more attention.... Anyways what is everyone preference?

Digital or Hard copy?

Hard copy for me. I love having a game case for some weird reason...

 

[Nabbitnator]

I prefer digital with 3DS games. I like having them on the system and ready to go. For consoles, mostly physical but I'm finding myself buying all my PS4 games digitally. Wii U is mostly physical for retail. It is weird. But thankfully, my download speeds are great.

Interesting tid bit: There was research done that claims buying physical is less harming to the environment than downloading digitally. Weird.

Im split with the wii u for digital and hard copy. If its like a game I really really want and I love it. It has to be physical. 3ds is becoming more digital as well. I don't have time to go to gs anymore.

 

[Beastmegs]

Digital or Hard copy?

Hard copy for me thats just the way its always been for me i like having the box

 

[kmpyj]

I can't wait for you guys to get the game. I'm excited for you guys. I want to know what type of Palutena player are you guys going to be. I am going to be a aggressive-defensive Palutena.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I can't wait for you guys to get the game. I'm excited for you guys. I want to know what type of Palutena player are you guys going to be. I am going to be a aggressive-defensive Palutena.

Got me flattered. I'm gonna try to be versatile with multiple styles. I know I want my main one to be the one with fireworks and jump glide, but I also want a speed build with Super Speed and Glide, as well as obviously practice with the default. It'll be a tough to have multiple custom builds + the default one, but I think it can work with enough practice.

And that includes me trying to find ways to use Heavenly Light or something.

 

[Glaciacott]

Ok, been playing for quite a while, naturally Palutena the most. Mostly CPUs while exploring all the stages, a couple of for glory where I thought I was suffering but won nonetheless.

The current moveset is indeed one of the hardest from what I see, and it is extremely defensive. Hated Auto Reticle at first but been learning ways to use it to either cancel out other projectiles or block people then punish. Best times where once when someone was returning, got interrupted by AR and then I F-Smashed for the victory, and another where with auto-reticle I exploded the Duck Hunt dog's can in front of his face.

Warp feels much weaker than I anticipated, less comfortable to me than Mewtwo's teleport and pales tremendously in comparison to Zelda's Farore's Wind now. It's a good recovery nonetheless, but I don't find myself wanting to use it outside of that.

Reflect is ok, but not as OP as I was imagining at first. And counter is just counter.

The aerials however. My lord, they're fantastic, and they make me wish I got the hang of shorthopping on the 3DS. The idea with this moveset is really just to catch mistakes and punish with grabs comboing into dash attacks and aerials, and smash attacks or u-air for kills.

Going to play this Palutena for a while longer to master her before going for custom movesets.

Oh yea, and online lag makes her feel suuuuuper slow. But somehow I tanked everything and still won, so idk.

 

[kmpyj]

Well my Smash Brothers (and Sisters), it is time!!! Have fun you guys. Let me know what you guys think of her once you try her out for a while.

 

[pidgezero_one]

got the game last week

loved her instantly

ugh so many chars to main, can i just list my main as "It's Complicated" on this site

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

It took me a while to "click" into Palutena, maybe it might still. Didn't expect her to be that heavy. Her shorthop combos are godly though when you connect 'em in succession to me so far, she's feels like mix of Peach, Pit and Zelda!
I was also bit baffled on her specials at first (Reflect Barrier feels bit random in effect right now).

However, I can see potential in her, she has really neat disjointed hitboxes and hits hard most of the time. Did well with her at For Glory (Macs and ZSSs against, no less.)

So damn HAPPY she's here in my hands finally! I've come to you Lady Palutena!

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

Played a bunch of her last night at the midnight release against randoms. Did not feel as comfortable as I would have liked on her... not playing for 3 weeks really does a toll on your execution/spacing/etc.

I didn't drop any games but far too many close calls. I knew the Mac matchup was bad but man, Palutena really has no great options up close vs Mac's jab. I remember Fireworks worked before but I ended up whiffing it which makes me think I have to go back to training room and actually remember the spacing/hitboxes on it.

Only got about an hour of game time in to unlock some customs and characters, but I definitely need to train more with Palutena.
Winning by 1 stock with her vs people isn't inspiring when you can 3 stock the same people with Sheik.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Got the game! And Palutena's amazing. However, it's gonna take a while for me to get used to Palutena, and the new Pit. Hitboxes are weird, especially for the angel's F-air compared to the old one.

 

[TheAnvil]

Just tried her outfor the first time and was pleasantly surprised at how fun she was.... Until I realized that her B moves were completely useless.

Seriously, 3 defensive moves? When she has 12, they chose horrible ones for her default moveset. Considering you can't use custom moves online this limits her potential greatly IMO. Big shame, and considering how bad Pit is in the game, I'm wondering what the hell Sakurai was thinking.

 

[Zwzchow]

Seriously, 3 defensive moves? When she has 12, they chose horrible ones for her default moveset. Considering you can't use custom moves online this limits her potential greatly IMO. Big shame, and considering how bad Pit is in the game, I'm wondering what the hell Sakurai was thinking.

Pit? Bad?
Pls explain :/

 

[TheAnvil]

Pit? Bad?
Pls explain :/

From my experience, he's extremely weak in comparison with the other characters that I've tried. His Final Smash is good, but he's almost useless apart from that.

 

[Admiral Pit]

It annoys me how everyone thinks Pit is bad or nerfed, just because arrows are weaker. It's as if they forgotten Pit's improved range, having more kill moves, and such. Sure his camping is weaker, but he's now more aggressive. Maybe in time I have to show others a thing or 2.

 

[Zwzchow]

From my experience, he's extremely weak in comparison with the other characters that I've tried. His Final Smash is good, but he's almost useless apart from that.

Weak like no kill moves?

It annoys me how everyone thinks Pit is bad or nerfed, just because arrows are weaker. It's as if they forgotten Pit's improved range, having more kill moves, and such. Sure his camping is weaker, but he's now more aggressive. Maybe in time I have to show others a thing or 2.

yeah his game was campy in Brawl
(except that I like to be aggro as pit even in brawl)

 

[kmpyj]

Hope you like the game guys. I c

Just tried her outfor the first time and was pleasantly surprised at how fun she was.... Until I realized that her B moves were completely useless.

Seriously, 3 defensive moves? When she has 12, they chose horrible ones for her default moveset. Considering you can't use custom moves online this limits her potential greatly IMO. Big shame, and considering how bad Pit is in the game, I'm wondering what the hell Sakurai was thinking.

I don't know about you, but I love her default specials. The only one that I beat an eye at is counter, but even then it has it's usefulness. Teleport is pretty good, and is great for mind games and recovery. It gets me out of tight spots all the time, and surprisingly doesn't have much lag to it. Auto Reticle is very good for spacing. Reflect can be Godlike (lol) if you know how to use it right, and counter is great for those little Mac players.

Although I do wish that Palutena was allowed to use her customs online. 8 completely different moves not being used.....sniff. Hopefully someone at the national tournament who picks Palutena might consider using one of her customs, since Nintendo is allowing custom moves at the nationals. I would use Palutena, but even though I had the game for 3 weeks, I don't think I am "Tournament Ready" with her. I do plan on going to the Tournament tomorrow, but I am just going to use Mario instead.

 

[TheAnvil]

Hope you like the game guys. I c

I don't know about you, but I love her default specials. The only one that I beat an eye at is counter, but even then it has it's usefulness. Teleport is pretty good, and is great for mind games and recovery. It gets me out of tight spots all the time, and surprisingly doesn't have much lag to it. Auto Reticle is very good for spacing. Reflect can be Godlike (lol) if you know how to use it right, and counter is great for those little Mac players.

Although I do wish that Palutena was allowed to use her customs online. 8 completely different moves not being used.....sniff. Hopefully someone at the national tournament who picks Palutena might consider using one of her customs, since Nintendo is allowing custom moves at the nationals. I would use Palutena, but even though I had the game for 3 weeks, I don't think I am "Tournament Ready" with her. I do plan on going to the Tournament tomorrow, but I am just going to use Mario instead.

There's nothing wrong with them individually. It's just collectively they're no good. She doesn't need a warp and a reflect and a counter (especially the last two), she needs some offensive moves.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

So my custom moves are

SuperSpeed

JumpGlide

Light Weight

Auto-Reticle.

Holy crap. Palutena is all over the place. She literally has the safest recovery + amazing offense.

Even when she slows down from lightweight she can go quickly with jumpglide again. Lightweigt is best used when the opponent has high percents and you have low percent. Off stage chasing is CRAZY with lightweight. You can go so deep.

Getting up-smashes in is essential. Up smash is really important.

D-grab>f-air works. You can get it twice sometimes and then jab> re-grab/ just re-grab.

or you can d-grab> dash> upsmash.

Her moves are laggy so be careful.

 

[pidgezero_one]

Palutenas usmash in teams tho

 

[kmpyj]

There's nothing wrong with them individually. It's just collectively they're no good. She doesn't need a warp and a reflect and a counter (especially the last two), she needs some offensive moves.

To each their own I suppose. I became quite fond of them. I guess I like using those moves aggressively (especially Reflect, and teleport.) To be honest, I became so attach to them that I don't think I can go through a match without them.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Although I'm doing okay so far, my current hatred list is towards Marth, Lucina, Ness, and Mac. So I may be a bit paranoid seeing them for the time being.
Good thing that D-throw to N-air (or U-air) combo has saved me a bunch.

 

[rpgcaster]

Loving Palutena! I was afraid that she wasn't going to click with me but, it ended up being alright ^^

Question though, for those who have been playing, what is her best method of approaching characters like Mac and Marth?

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

Tried out Palutena today, I'll be honest and say I'm not really digging her default moveset, so I probably won't play online much with her. However, I think I found a moveset combination that works for me (Heavenly Light, Rocket Jump, Angelic Missile, and Celestial Fireworks). With that combination, I had a lot more fun. I can guarantee Palutena will be one of my mains.