Mini Mafia Game Thread | Newbies are welcome! | Town wins Gheb's game | Zen next to host!

[Such Mafia]

Looks like you're still wanting me to learn something here, so I'll answer that the next post.

Change of Reads:
Gheb Scum
Ran Town (Confirmed)
Ryu Null
Xatres Null

 

[ranmaru]

You'll just have to guess. Think about all of our options. I'll leave it at that. If it becomes stupid, I won't ask anymore. I'll take the post-game "Ran, see there was no need for that" gladly. Also it's not just for vinyl, it can be for Jdietz as well.

 

[Xatres]

Well, that game pretty much wrapped itself up in a neat little bow, didn't it?

I am not the DayCop, and with both Gheb and Such Mafia claiming DayCop and Gheb saying he got an innocent on Such Mafia, there's pretty much no way Gheb isn't scum (unless Such Mafia is a lying VT, which would be really stupid in this situation).

I was actually thinking it was Ran who was Gheb's scummate up until Such Mafia gave him a clear, because he pushed for a wagon on me when another vote would have put me at L-1. Could have been a been a ploy, but it would have been a risky one for a townie to pull.

Basically I see no reason for us not to vote Gheb and then you guys can argue between me and RR D2.

 

[ranmaru]

Never mind, Ryu. I was just asking Such Mafia a question to find it easier to find the scum between them in the chance Xatres counter-claimed Daycop, because then I'd think Gheb+Such Mafia scum.

 

[ranmaru]

You guys should act like it's D2 right now. GO

 

[Xatres]

Incoming a few notes on why Red Ryu is Gheb's scummate.

First, in response to Gheb's initial claim of DayCop.

any CC to this?

It's obvious that Gheb's strategy in claiming DayCop was to get a CC. Red Ryu was very neatly helping along. Asking for the CC directly was very safe. If the person Gheb cleared had been a VT, they could have basically set up the conflict however they wanted. If it turned out to be the actual DayCop (which it did), Red Ryu can bus and look like a townie.

We also have a case of Red Ryu contradicting himself pretty badly, which is a clear scumtell in my book.

First, Red Ryu criticizes Such Mafia for placing an RVS vote in LyLo.

Such Mafia unvote this is lylo.

Then, less than a page later and in defense of an action another player found fishy, Red Ryu claims to have not thought the game had even started yet.

didn't know the game started.

Also why are you directing him to you for a clear instead of finding scum with it?

RR had clearly seen that the game had started and that the votes mattered. He HAD to have known the game had started. Looks like a pretty clear scumslip to me.

 

[ranmaru]

I was actually thinking it was Ran who was Gheb's scummate up until Such Mafia gave him a clear, because he pushed for a wagon on me when another vote would have put me at L-1. Could have been a been a ploy, but it would have been a risky one for a townie to pull.

I wanted to 1). Shake things up and 2). See how Such Mafia responded to the invitation. He never did. >_> My bad at the L-1 thing though.

 

[Such Mafia]

Well then... Thank goodness Gheb decided to be scum or Vinyl taking me telling him "You're in charge of RVS" literally might have made for a much much faster game...

Reading up.

 

[Xatres]

I wanted to 1). Shake things up and 2). See how Such Mafia responded to the invitation. He never did. >_> My bad at the L-1 thing though.

I suppose if you were watching the thread carefully, you could have mitigated the risk. Still pretty not something I would have tried.

 

[ranmaru]

Well then... Thank goodness Gheb decided to be scum or Vinyl taking me telling him "You're in charge of RVS" literally might have made for a much much faster game...

Reading up.

Vinyl was too quick to using his pr to find the answers instead of having the back and forth with me. I was like wait no I wasn't defending... lol. He misunderstood. But oh wells. I don't mind the clear. I do think he should try to be more patient in the future but :goodstuff: or whatever it is.

 

[ranmaru]

SUCH MAFIA

BOTH HEADS

This is important. I want to see your input on the back and forth between Ryu and Xatres. You are the daycop, so you won't see the light of day tomorrow. Make the most out of your last day.

 

[ranmaru]

Didn't Ryu just view? I'm interested in his response.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Didn't Ryu just view? I'm interested in his response.

I'm cycling through tabs, working out something this later.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It's obvious that Gheb's strategy in claiming DayCop was to get a CC. Red Ryu was very neatly helping along. Asking for the CC directly was very safe. If the person Gheb cleared had been a VT, they could have basically set up the conflict however they wanted. If it turned out to be the actual DayCop (which it did), Red Ryu can bus and look like a townie.

Why should I buy that Gheb was the cop at the time, I've played on EM in classic a lot.

I asked for a CC because without one Gheb would be clear, Scum will CC or claim first.

We also have a case of Red Ryu contradicting himself pretty badly, which is a clear scumtell in my book.

First, Red Ryu criticizes Such Mafia for placing an RVS vote in LyLo.



Then, less than a page later and in defense of an action another player found fishy, Red Ryu claims to have not thought the game had even started yet.



RR had clearly seen that the game had started and that the votes mattered. He HAD to have known the game had started. Looks like a pretty clear scumslip to me.

Your taking this entirely out of context and is a clear reaching attempt by you.

Ran said he saw me on viewing earlier, that was really early when I saw this post,

Just as a little tidbit:

Yea Vinyl come on. I really hated the idea of playing mafia with JDietz when I came back to DGames because of the fact that, to me, him being a rulebreaker is his identity. He's obviously changed in the past two years, and it's helpful that the people in here aren't ACTUAL dicks outside of game, but yea. If you're gonna play our game and expect to be taken seriously respect our rules. Otherwise don't let the door hit you on the way out. If you didn't know you broke those rules, read some fundamental rules. Overall the fundamentals are mostly the same throughout, and they're pretty basic, enough so for you to remember them after you learn them.

When I looked at the notification I clicked the thread and read this comment, I am aware Rake started the day I didn't see that I only read this post while being hung over and posting elsewhere while I worked on getting water for my hangover/homework.

This is when Ran saw me earlier I think, and why he said "Ryu viewed earlier"

There is no slip, I didn't think the game opened because Gorf was still posting and I didn't read above.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Well, that game pretty much wrapped itself up in a neat little bow, didn't it?

I am not the DayCop, and with both Gheb and Such Mafia claiming DayCop and Gheb saying he got an innocent on Such Mafia, there's pretty much no way Gheb isn't scum (unless Such Mafia is a lying VT, which would be really stupid in this situation).

I was actually thinking it was Ran who was Gheb's scummate up until Such Mafia gave him a clear, because he pushed for a wagon on me when another vote would have put me at L-1. Could have been a been a ploy, but it would have been a risky one for a townie to pull.

Basically I see no reason for us not to vote Gheb and then you guys can argue between me and RR D2.

Why?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Like he pushed him to L-1 but what exactly with his vote was that bad when him and Mafia both voted without thinking it was lylo.

 

[Such Mafia]

SUCH MAFIA

BOTH HEADS

This is important. I want to see your input on the back and forth between Ryu and Xatres. You are the daycop, so you won't see the light of day tomorrow. Make the most out of your last day.

I'll tell you after Vinyl talks about what he feels in our hydra convo for learning's sake.

 

[ranmaru]

@ Such Mafia

This might help Vinyl to process his posts, X1 made this for me, it's the most awesomest thing ever. (It's ok to post this now since I and your slot are confirmed town)

Spoiler

If a question does any of the following, then delete it:


1.) Creates unecessary WIFOM
2.) Has already been answered
3.) Is stupid: ie a question which does not indicate anyones alignment or connections, or is so simple that it gains nothing -i.e saying "are you scum"
4.)is rolefishing

If you find an accusation do the following, if it fails or proves to be useless then delete it:

Think through the possibility of this accusation being true, is it mechanically possible? After that you need to consider the following factors:

1.)What existing discussion there has been on this topic.
-> 1.a)What reasoning there is for this accusation, and what evidence there is to support this
-> 1.b)What reasoning against is there to this accusation and what evidnence is there to support this
-> 1.c)Is it truly scummy? What possible reasons could they have for doing this? At this point you should decided whether something is clear-cut scummy or not. Consider asking for explanations instead of accusing because you still have the option to vote if you aren't satisfied with their responses. Could they merely be wrong instead of scummy? Sometimes (only sometimes) you might suspect someone has a PR and thus its best not to mention something, for example if someone refuses to talk about someone or is calling someone town for no reasons it could be because they have an inno on them or something. Consider noting this down for later, for example if you suspect they do have an inno, or are in a masonry, and they later claim something else, question them upon it.

2.) The likelyhood based on game flavour and set-up of the accusation being true. If you suspect someone is mafia, yet has a cop innocent on them then thats a strong sign they're not mafia.
-> 2.a) At this injuntction you should remember the most important fact about mafia. Scum Lie. If the cop's claim is unverified, or partially verified, then take that into account. For example if 4 players can verify the cop claim and a miller/godfather has already flipped, then an unCC'ed cop should be taken as pretty much true, but if its an unverified claim, then that cop's result should still be an influence, but less solid a fact i.e you should use it as merely one of the factors influencing your decision.


If you find something like this "Well its possible that scum did it to fool us, but we can't tell" then delete it. If you are "just wandering to yourself" or just "thinking aloud" then DON'T If its a general question and there's no answer to it, don't ask it. Look at this from KSSU:"Either he didn't read much (therefore NOT noticing it and other things), or he is playing dumb." That is in no way useful. DONT POST THIS ****.

Once you have condensed your post down by deleting everything I tell you to here, read the post to make sure its actually coherent to anyone who can't see your thought process and try to check for at least basic grammar/spelling mistakes.

 

[Xatres]

Ryu, scumminess or non-scumminess aside, I'm having trouble understanding your posts. Can you make an effort to not use run-on sentences and to use proper grammar?

If I'm reading what you wrote correctly, you haven't really answered my posts with any actual evidence. For instance, you say I took your posts out of context, but don't explain how context clears up the contradiction. In one post you seem worried about RVS votes putting people at L-1, and then in a later post you claim to not have known the game had started.

Are you saying that when you posted "I didn't know the game had started?" that you were referring to something that was said/done BEFORE posting about the RVS votes? That would make more sense, although I still find the "didn't know the game started" defense shoddy at best whenever I see it. Saying you were posting while hungover is also a pretty lame excuse, as are excuses related to multi-tasking and multi-tabbing. Even when they are true, they still come off poorly.

You also don't really have much room to call my reasoning stretchy. First, spotting contradictions like the one I used is scumhunting 101. There's nothing stretchy about it. I spot something, you defend, and town gets to judge the results. Second, you legitimately DID contadict yourself, or at the very least appeared to. Contradictions are some of the best reasons for lynching someone, because they indicate liars. Town wants to lynch liars. I'd have been a fool not to pursue that line of questioning.

 

[ranmaru]

Ryu is right. The time I was referring to was after I voted Xatres, which was before the CC post. So it makes your point irrelevant.

 

[Xatres]

Feel free to call this stretchy too, but I'm seeing a clear example of manipulation here. The emphasis below was added by Red Ryu when he quoted this post:

I was actually thinking it was Ran who was Gheb's scummate up until Such Mafia gave him a clear, because he pushed for a wagon on me when another vote would have put me at L-1. Could have been a been a ploy, but it would have been a risky one for a townie to pull.

Why?

RR asks me for reasoning, acting like I just through that out there without explaining myself.

Except I did explain myself, in the exact same sentence.

I was actually thinking it was Ran who was Gheb's scummate up until Such Mafia gave him a clear, because he pushed for a wagon on me when another vote would have put me at L-1. Could have been a been a ploy, but it would have been a risky one for a townie to pull.

And then Ran and I had a nice little exchange about it. To me this is a pretty clear example of RR trying to make me look dirty when I haven't given him any tangible evidence to support it. I'm the only target he has left, so he has to manipulate his way into getting other players to think I'm scummy.

My reasoning is right there in the post he quoted. Either he's not bothering to read or he's deliberately hiding facts.

 

[Xatres]

Keep in mind as well that I had no reason whatsoever to comment on my initial read of Ranmaru if I were scum. I could just have easily left the topic alone and focused solely on RR and Gheb. There's no reason for scum to dig up dirt on a confirmed townie. That's information that could be used against them.

A townie, however, should be trying to get as much true information out to town as possible. My revealing my mindset gives insight into how I play the game, which can better equip town to judge my innocence. A scum trying to fake this same behavior is adding more lies onto his ever growing mount of lies, which gets him all the closer to being discovered.

 

[Xatres]

Anyways, it's close to midnight and I have to work tomorrow. I'll be on again sometime in the afternoon. Ta ta, for now.

 

[Such Mafia]

I am aware Rake started the day I didn't see that I only read this post while being hung over and posting elsewhere while I worked on getting water for my hangover/homework.

You gotta chugalug sometimes, but ya can't get chugalug'd at the wrong time, mang. That just chugs your day down the sinkhole.


Also...

Like he pushed him to L-1 but what exactly with his vote was that bad when him and Mafia both voted without thinking it was lylo.

This question is like looking for a cookie inside an empty cookie jar.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ryu, scumminess or non-scumminess aside, I'm having trouble understanding your posts. Can you make an effort to not use run-on sentences and to use proper grammar?

Your talking to the wrong person when it comes to grammar.

This is why I always take my papers to be proof read by someone else.

If I'm reading what you wrote correctly, you haven't really answered my posts with any actual evidence. For instance, you say I took your posts out of context, but don't explain how context clears up the contradiction. In one post you seem worried about RVS votes putting people at L-1, and then in a later post you claim to not have known the game had started.

You clearly are not reading, because you're scum. My concern with voting was after Ran said he saw me online, that time when I viewed I didn't know the game started because I saw Gorf's post. So I assumed the game didn't start.

Nice try to misconstrue this.

Are you saying that when you posted "I didn't know the game had started?" that you were referring to something that was said/done BEFORE posting about the RVS votes? That would make more sense, although I still find the "didn't know the game started" defense shoddy at best whenever I see it. Saying you were posting while hungover is also a pretty lame excuse, as are excuses related to multi-tasking and multi-tabbing. Even when they are true, they still come off poorly.

When Ran saw me viewing that was when I was hungover and not reading everything, I only saw Gorf's post. You're making it out as shady when I didn't even post to that point. When I did post I was better, I viewed the thread with a hangover and I am running a game atm with school work I gotta get done before Tuesday.

You also don't really have much room to call my reasoning stretchy. First, spotting contradictions like the one I used is scumhunting 101. There's nothing stretchy about it. I spot something, you defend, and town gets to judge the results. Second, you legitimately DID contadict yourself, or at the very least appeared to. Contradictions are some of the best reasons for lynching someone, because they indicate liars. Town wants to lynch liars. I'd have been a fool not to pursue that line of questioning.

It is though, you're reaching for a reason to call that scummy when there is a logical reason for what I did as town. There is no contradiction.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Feel free to call this stretchy too, but I'm seeing a clear example of manipulation here. The emphasis below was added by Red Ryu when he quoted this post:

You mean how you are posting, because you came in reaching right out of the gate.

I'm scummy for asking for a CC?!

RR asks me for reasoning, acting like I just through that out there without explaining myself.

Except I did explain myself, in the exact same sentence.

Because I don't get it, also adding to why Such Mafia Copped Ran there, that was a knew jerk reaction and I think it wasn't needed at that time.

And then Ran and I had a nice little exchange about it. To me this is a pretty clear example of RR trying to make me look dirty when I haven't given him any tangible evidence to support it. I'm the only target he has left, so he has to manipulate his way into getting other players to think I'm scummy.

My reasoning is right there in the post he quoted. Either he's not bothering to read or he's deliberately hiding facts.

Ya know, this is why I wish Such Mafia didn't cop right away when Gheb got outted as scum, because you and me is going to turn into this with very little "clean" content.

This is you and me tomorrow at 0:18

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Keep in mind as well that I had no reason whatsoever to comment on my initial read of Ranmaru if I were scum. I could just have easily left the topic alone and focused solely on RR and Gheb. There's no reason for scum to dig up dirt on a confirmed townie. That's information that could be used against them.

This is WIFOM.

A townie, however, should be trying to get as much true information out to town as possible. My revealing my mindset gives insight into how I play the game, which can better equip town to judge my innocence. A scum trying to fake this same behavior is adding more lies onto his ever growing mount of lies, which gets him all the closer to being discovered.

And I put myself on the table and give out all my thoughts in games as well.

Again this is why I wish they waited to cop, because we're just going to tunnel each other into the ground with almost nothing to base it on.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You gotta chugalug sometimes, but ya can't get chugalug'd at the wrong time, mang. That just chugs your day down the sinkhole.

Brewyu seal of approval.

This question is like looking for a cookie inside an empty cookie jar.

I dun get it.

 

[Such Mafia]

I wouldn't worry about it. I've got my opinion solidified already and I doubt it will change, though I'mma continue to let Vinyl do whatever helps him best. I think we're in reasonable agreement though.

I dun get it.

Ignore it. Vinyl meant well but it's not going to go anywhere.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Somebody remind me to not join these EM type of games next time >_<

 

[Xatres]

This is WIFOM.

No, this is examining motivations. It's not only legitimate, but it's actually a very important part of investigating crimes (which is what mafia is designed to simulate). A lot of people call WIFOM on observations like this when what they actually mean is that the only objections they can think of evoke WIFOM. If you want to disagree with me, that's fine. But don't just call WIFOM when you don't have any other valid objections.

And I put myself on the table and give out all my thoughts in games as well.

Again this is why I wish they waited to cop, because we're just going to tunnel each other into the ground with almost nothing to base it on.

Probably true, although it worked out pretty well for me since I was suspicious of Ran. Do you think it would be better if we stopped wailing on each other and let other people ask us questions?

 

[ranmaru]

I could probably ask you guys a question, but I think you guys might cover it through your back and forth regardless. I'll ask anything tomorrow if I really need to.

 

[ranmaru]

I think it's time to lynch Gheb.

Do a last word thing and you guys can continue to back and forth the next day, I think it is time to wrap up.

I'll hammer.

 

[Such Mafia]

It's my opinion that Xatres is the scum here between Ryu and Xatres. He's been reaching for a lot of end all be all points against Ryu when I know what Ryu's posts can be like. Additionally but far less provable is the fact that if Gheb and Ryu were the scumteam I would expect Gheb to have held off alerting Ran to the quickvote in hopes of hammering Xatres immediately as Ryu was lingering around the site whereas Xatres wasn't.

Vinyl seems to agree with that sentiment after some thinking.

Vote: Gheb

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ran can hammer I'll golfer to Xas post later.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Votecount 1.1

Voting :
-------------------

Gheb_01 (1) : Such mafia

Not voting:
------------------------

Red Ryu, Ranmarru, Xatres, Gheb

with 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch

 

[ranmaru]

Can't hammer without one of you guys voting. Also you guys can vote and hammer Gheb if you want. I don't want the other to get salty about me hammering. :3 (Plus I don't want the guilt of making the other salty at my gheb hammering)

 

[Such Mafia]

Wait.

Requesting Deadline

 

[Such Mafia]

What, no deadline?


Well that's cool.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Deadline is Tuesday at midnight