Mind Uploading

[IDK]

What you consider "alive" is not merely a belief, it is a science. When scientists determine whether something is "living" they go through a list of characteristics all living things have. If part of your consideration of whether a being is alive is "can it retain experiences", that is unreasonable. Bacteria, single celled organisms, other small animals with not much memory (or even none) do not "retain experiences". Their physical development might, but that's pure instinct. It is the base of the theory of evolution. There are even people that have mental problems to this extent, and cannot remember things AT ALL. This means if you say hello to them, they will forget you said hello by the time they can even think to say hello. They do not even remember how to say the word hello.

A computer does not meet the requirements to be a living organism, and is therefore... not a living organism. If you disagree it is from pure religious beliefs, in which case nobody can persuade you, and you should not be posting in a debate topic, as your mind has no ability to change. Debate is for the discussion and argument of topics that are DEBATABLE.

It sounds dark, but no. If I found out this whole world was a simulation, and I was just a little boy in a computer, I would not consider myself alive. I would become very depressed and likely kill myself.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

What you consider "alive" is not merely a belief, it is a science. When scientists determine whether something is "living" they go through a list of characteristics all living things have. If part of your consideration of whether a being is alive is "can it retain experiences", that is unreasonable. Bacteria, single celled organisms, other small animals with not much memory (or even none) do not "retain experiences". Their physical development might, but that's pure instinct. It is the base of the theory of evolution. There are even people that have mental problems to this extent, and cannot remember things AT ALL. This means if you say hello to them, they will forget you said hello by the time they can even think to say hello. They do not even remember how to say the word hello.

The science is in determining if something fits the definition of "alive." Some would say that settling on the actual definition itself is somewhat arbitrary and is a "belief" of sorts.

It sounds dark, but no. If I found out this whole world was a simulation, and I was just a little boy in a computer, I would not consider myself alive. I would become very depressed and likely kill myself.

Really, why is that? I don't think it would affect me in the slightest. It doesn't change how real my experiences are to me, and that's all that matters to me.

I don't think a silicon computer is really fundamentally different than one composed of organic elements, so to me, the fact that we don't observe "minds" in computers leads me to believe that the "mind" is really just an emergent phenomenon of complexity, or alternatively that "consciousness" is really just an illusion.

 

[pyrotek7x7]

I'm not sure why people would want to do this to themselves. Think about it; uploading yourself to a computer isn't really uploading, it's copying. So you're still you, and now there's a copy. If you kill yourself, you're dead. You're not being preserved, only a copy of you. So now you can't experience life.

Some people may want a copy of loved ones to keep on living, and perhaps some people would want to preserve the next Einstein or Newton, but still...It's not human. There is no possible way to simulate the brain. You just can't.

 

[IDK]

However, with mind uploading, if they take a copy of you, and your original dies, they can move the state of being into the original body, if it weren't going to die in the first place. It really sounds mythical, this whole idea, because nobody really knows what happens to the conscious mind and the presence of the soul, or what you really consider YOU living. When you're copied, it's still technically you. You think of it as a different person because you can't feel for them directly. However, we don't know that. What if you CAN feel their body? That's why I'm saying this seems mythical. It's hard for humans (as we are all quite selfish... it's natural. you can only feel your own emotions. you can only try to feel for others. that's where being a good person comes into play) to comprehend. We can't know what happens to the conscious mind when a mind is copied, or uploaded. The soul, that is.

 

[Darxmarth23]

However, with mind uploading, if they take a copy of you, and your original dies, they can move the state of being into the original body, if it weren't going to die in the first place. It really sounds mythical, this whole idea, because nobody really knows what happens to the conscious mind and the presence of the soul, or what you really consider YOU living. When you're copied, it's still technically you. You think of it as a different person because you can't feel for them directly. However, we don't know that. What if you CAN feel their body? That's why I'm saying this seems mythical. It's hard for humans (as we are all quite selfish... it's natural. you can only feel your own emotions. you can only try to feel for others. that's where being a good person comes into play) to comprehend. We can't know what happens to the conscious mind when a mind is copied, or uploaded. The soul, that is.

Thus you an't really ever die.

Thats a whole nother debate itself.

Bio ethics...

The problem is is that this is too vaque. There are limitless posiblities.

 

[Pr0phetic]

I agree with IDK, you die once your really dead. A copy is just that, a representation. If your memory is brought over and 'uploaded' its like a cell, not a rebirth. Thus i feel you ultimately die once, regardless of what happens.

 

[IDK]

Thus you can't really ever die.

That's a whole nother -(lolwut?) debate itself.

Bio ethics...

The problem is is that this is too vaque. There are limitless possibilities.

I don't mean to be mean, but were you kidding? I can see that post anywhere else on smashboards, but in the debate hall? I bold/underlined for you haha. Sorry if that was mean, and I feel kind of like an english teacher, but please watch your spelling and grammar in the DH...

 

[Hive]

how would you ultimately die only once? I hear this a lot but I don't understand where it comes from except from social norms...(?) could someone please explain this for me?
the way I see it if your identity is based on:
material: given the infinite nature of the universe and the law that energy/atoms can't be destroyed... these atoms will realign themselves at some point. or if only certain atoms are you (lol weird), then at some point these will form a living thing...
function: same argument pretty much for materialism except that the function of the organism will realign at some point or is already realigned elsewhere...
dualism- your soul will live on..

these are the three main schools of thought, most people in mind uploading tend to agree with functionalism... however none of them is more realistic.. you pretty much have to assume that identity comes "mystically" from something (like idk said)...

however this question comes up in mind loading alot which is imo very interesting to identity concerns- say you could switch the atoms in your brain to a computer 1 by 1 (say make a nanomachine attatch to a neuron synapse and transmit the information to a computer that the synapse would normally, and still interact with your organic brain... which is completely theoretically possible...) would your identity be affected? the point is that there are small changes within your organic composition ALL THE TIME (to learn new things, etc...) but or identity (we assume) still remains intact... so would this pose any more of a problem for your identity to be transferred than normal interactions?

also, a lot of the time the organic brain is destroyed in the processes of most theories (to stop the question of their being multiple identies created...)
do you guys think this will work? do you think it is ethical?

imo at least I think the identity of a person could probably be transferred given the right procedure...