Mind the Line - Pikmin Line Tactics Discussion

[SketchHurricane]

There was a thread a while back on "line efficiency" that wasn't received too well. I stumbled upon it while looking for material on pikmin-specific strategies. Most of us know certain things like the purple pikmin toss for ledge guarding / returning. My question is this: to what degree do YOU mind your pikmin line in a match? Do you just play and whatever happens, happens? Or do you keep strict track of what you want to do with the next pikmin in line?

Personally I use a combination of both. It's easy to get pwned will occupying your mind with what pikmin you have, but I've been experimenting with purposely setting up certain pikmin and it has gotten me the kill at times.

I wanted to write a little guide on how to work in pikmin strats, but I figured I would get as much input into the issue as possible. In the end, we can compile the info into something more than my own little musings.

- - - - - - - - - -
If anyone has vids, post em and I'll put them here.

 

[Olimarman]

I usually try to rid my line of whites when I get them. No one can keep their line exactly how they want it and always get the pikmin they want, but its always good to just know whats next and kind of think ahead. Your line shouldn't be your main focus but you should never completely ignore it either.

 

[Puddin]

I couldn't fight if I didn't constantly whistle to line up my Pikmin, I usually always know what order they are in and keep up with the order. I don't have any Pikmin I particularly hate to have in my line but if I see a white I'll try to get it out for a latch rather then accidentally using it for a smash when I didn't know which Pikmin was next.

I don't think there would be much use in a Pikmin line strategy guide since everyone plays their line differently. Some people may want to arrange the line for a latch-grab Combo or something like that, others may not really care and just go around smacking people in the face with whichever Pikmin is next.

Personally I'm always trying to be aware of which Pikmin is next...uhm...and thats it Edit ovuh

 

[SketchHurricane]

I couldn't fight if I didn't constantly whistle to line up my Pikmin, I usually always know what order they are in and keep up with the order. I don't have any Pikmin I particularly hate to have in my line but if I see a white I'll try to get it out for a latch rather then accidentally using it for a smash when I didn't know which Pikmin was next.

This is what I see the whistle used most frequently for. The problem is, lets say you lined up your whistle to have a purple ready. Using it to call you pikmin back pretty much screws your purple set up. If I wrote a guide, I would talk about things like when and when not to sacrifice the whistle, and also how to work the whistle in mid-match to get the queue where you want it without randomly whistling.

I don't think there would be much use in a Pikmin line strategy guide since everyone plays their line differently. Some people may want to arrange the line for a latch-grab Combo or something like that, others may not really care and just go around smacking people in the face with whichever Pikmin is next.

Herein lies the dilemma. Most of this stuff is common knowledge, I'm just wondering how abusable it is. A guide at this point would basically just be tips and suggestions.

 

[Chiroz]

I just recently started playing Olimar, and from what I've noticed whistling your Pikmin back to you DO NOT rearrange your Pikmin.


I normally always try to keep a Purple and a Blue in my line, apart from that the White ones I only use them for latching, and if I see myself plucking a white, depending on my oponents % I might either, go for a latch > grab, plainly latch him or just throw him off the stage. Aside from all that its mostly whatever I get.

I try to always be aware of my current order and of my whistle turn order. Also when I am on mid-high percents, depending on the situation I always try to keep the purple pikmin 1 whistle away, in case 1-) I get thrown off stage and need to call upon him or 2-) My opponent missed some really laggy/punishable move and I can kill him with the Purple.


Currently I am also trying to incorporate the different Pikmin color pros in my game, so as to say, Yellow Pikmin eat Falco's laser, so I try to maintain at least 2 Yellow's against him and latch them at appropriate times. I will see how this goes.

 

[asob4]

well i usually just focus on what's next and if it can be helpful. if i see i have a red next, i go for fair/smash. if it's a blue then grabbing is my main thing. purple is smash/toss. white is grab/toss. yellow is just generally good for me

also, like mr. x, if i have a white one 3rd in my line and they're at 0, i'm a happy camper

 

[DanGR]

Hmm...I don't really have a problem keeping up with the order. I just react from what color pikmin I have. If I need a purple for the kill, I'll either whistle 5 times to get him up front, or throw a couple to get the purple up front. It comes with experience I guess. :/

 

[Kirby-oh]

I mostly just dash up and smack them around. I'm working on throwing Pikmin more, and that will help me track my line better.

 

[TheSundanceKid]

When the match starts I quickly fill my line and keep attacking until I have some space and whistle to order them by color.

 

[asob4]

pikmin toss til i get the color i really need is also very important, faster and more reliable than whistling IMO

i mostly use whistle to WAC and call them back

 

[SketchHurricane]

I just recently started playing Olimar, and from what I've noticed whistling your Pikmin back to you DO NOT rearrange your Pikmin.

By this, do you mean when they are completely away from you? I would imagine that as long as there are a few still next to you, the whistle would still change the queue...

...if I see myself plucking a white, depending on my oponents % I might either, go for a latch > grab, plainly latch him or just throw him off the stage. Aside from all that its mostly whatever I get.

Even at high % you might as well latch him rather than toss him away. Unless you REALLY didn't want to accidentally hit with him.

Currently I am also trying to incorporate the different Pikmin color pros in my game, so as to say, Yellow Pikmin eat Falco's laser, so I try to maintain at least 2 Yellow's against him and latch them at appropriate times. I will see how this goes.

Does the yellow just block the laser in the air, or will it actually nullify it the whole time it is latched? That's some good matchup specific yellow info...

Hmm...I don't really have a problem keeping up with the order. I just react from what color pikmin I have. If I need a purple for the kill, I'll either whistle 5 times to get him up front, or throw a couple to get the purple up front. It comes with experience I guess. :/

In the potential guide, this is another thing that could be addressed. IMO whistling five times takes more time that I would like, especially if you're not quick on noticing you need to start whistling NOW. Also, you can use some empty aerials if you don't want to throw pikmin away at that particular time.

 

[KMAY]

The only managing I do is looking at what Pikmin I have next and attack accordingly with it. For example if I have a while next I am NOT going to try to fsmash with it..that is just dumb, I either throw it not matter the percent or grab. Same with Fatties, I never fsmash, i usually go for upsmash throws or grabs. Fatties are great to throw and mess up peoples timing or their aerials moves. I never whistle...like ever lol, unless my pikmin are loose and i am falling....

 

[Excellence]

I always keep an eye on my Pikmin line and know exactly which Pikmin is next. I hate the purple Pikmin with a passion. After I knock my opponent off stage you will usually see me literally toss them off the ledge and continue edgeguard. I see absolutely no use in the purple pikmin other than creating openings and using it to get back on the ledge, which isn't all that reliable against a good ledgeguard. Other than that: Blues for throwing KOs, yellows for combos, whites for latch and starting combos, reds for KOs, and purples sent to their doom from being thrown off.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Blues for throwing KOs, yellows for combos, whites for latch and starting combos, reds for KOs, and purples sent to their doom from being thrown off.

****, that last part just sounded so harsh If your going to condemn them like that, might as well go for the gimp while your at it. Then your not really throwing them away. I used to feel the same way about whites though. Before I learned to throwing them every chance I get, there's nothing like turning a devastating KO into an unexpectedly dainty slap.

Those are pretty much the basics though. I think the best KO's per color are: blue back throw, red/yellow up smash, purple up throw or down smash.

 

[Snail]

I haven't been paying too much attention, but then again I've only had Brawl for 4 days. I guess I'll try to use color-specific strategies when I get the basic feeling down :D

 

[Olimarman]

I always keep an eye on my Pikmin line and know exactly which Pikmin is next. I hate the purple Pikmin with a passion. After I knock my opponent off stage you will usually see me literally toss them off the ledge and continue edgeguard. I see absolutely no use in the purple pikmin other than creating openings and using it to get back on the ledge, which isn't all that reliable against a good ledgeguard. Other than that: Blues for throwing KOs, yellows for combos, whites for latch and starting combos, reds for KOs, and purples sent to their doom from being thrown off.

Purples are my favorite to have. If timed correctly they have enough hitstun when thrown to combo into. They can throw off recoveries of characters like Toon Link and Fox, upthrow is a ko move that is sometimes more reliable than bthrow with a blue and can ko with all 3 smashes at lower % than any other pikmin. An usmash with a purple is devastating, a dsmash with a purple and any other nonwhite pikmin is also VERY good, and fsmash should really be used with the other pikmin since purple barely goes anywhere. But bottom line, purple are good.

 

[Excellence]

Purples are my favorite to have. If timed correctly they have enough hitstun when thrown to combo into. They can throw off recoveries of characters like Toon Link and Fox, upthrow is a ko move that is sometimes more reliable than bthrow with a blue and can ko with all 3 smashes at lower % than any other pikmin. An usmash with a purple is devastating, a dsmash with a purple and any other nonwhite pikmin is also VERY good, and fsmash should really be used with the other pikmin since purple barely goes anywhere. But bottom line, purple are good.

I still disagree. You can throw off many recoveries simply by running off stage, falling and using Up B to grab the ledge while your opponent's attack hits nothingness, then pull yourself up. Up Throw may have more power with a purple Pikmin, but to even use it you have to be brought into your opponent range. Because of that, the Purple Pikmin is like an opportunity for your opponent to getdamage in. In reguards to KOing, it may be the heaviest hitter, but it's also the least ranged and unless you've got a dash-happy Shiek on your hands, no one is too thrilled to run at Olimar anyway, so you probably won't have much luck. The only thing I see Purple being useful for is when you stock up on about 4 or 5 and begin to camp your way into victory. That or using it to knock an opponent of the edge from a distance, or force them to get off.

 

[bdance23]

I only whistle to change order when I just KO'd somebody, to make sure I don't have a white or purple.

I let it just be random...it's too much effort to have to worry about my pikmin order as well as my opponent...cuz I can't always predict when I am going to smash or grab or throw...I usually see what my opponent is going to do and then counter.

Not to mention...if it's random, your opponent will not know what is coming, cuz if they see a purple they know there's going to be a smash, or a blue grab, etc..

Anybody else do the same?

 

[asob4]

so much hate on the fatties, they ****
they kill with like everything and they have the easiest spike because their size.

 

[BlackWaltzX]

Basic pikmin use is the same as everyone else. Love the hyphen smash with purple.

However, you want to try to keep knowledge on your next three pikmin at least.
If you have red, white blue. This will make me grab, dthrow, SH f+B FF grab/fsmash.
If it's red,blue,white. I'll Grab, SH fair, F+B (normal falling).

To do good combos, pay attention to three or more. (If you play startegy games like chess and such, Olimar is a great character! Haha)


Also, if the enemy is recovering from above the stage, I quickly whistle any pikmin to next position (cept white) and UP+B them to death. Suddenly, someone who I used to one or two stock is now a three stock victory. UP+B for anti snake!

 

[asob4]

usually if i have a white 3rd, i take mr. x's lead and go dthrow > fmash > grab dthrow > fair > etc

 

[BlackWaltzX]

Some people don't DI away from it. Also, I'd replace the weak dthrow from the white to a hyphen smash. If they are 'good' they generally dodge right away. If you suspect them of this level... charge your hyphen smash to nearly full. (Good things to killing DMs and other's MKs at 40% with a charged hyphen smash)

 

[Puddin]

I only whistle to change order when I just KO'd somebody, to make sure I don't have a white or purple.

I let it just be random...it's too much effort to have to worry about my pikmin order as well as my opponent...cuz I can't always predict when I am going to smash or grab or throw...I usually see what my opponent is going to do and then counter.

Not to mention...if it's random, your opponent will not know what is coming, cuz if they see a purple they know there's going to be a smash, or a blue grab, etc..

Anybody else do the same?

I have yet to fight an opponent who takes the time and effort to not only keep track of my movements, try and predict what I am about to do, and keep up with my Pikmin order all at the same time. I'm not saying they wont occasionally check which is next and predict what you might use it for but it would be just too much for your opponent to keep track of you AND your Pikmin.

 

[BlackWaltzX]

I have yet to fight an opponent who takes the time and effort to not only keep track of my movements, try and predict what I am about to do, and keep up with my Pikmin order all at the same time. I'm not saying they wont occasionally check which is next and predict what you might use it for but it would be just too much for your opponent to keep track of you AND your Pikmin.

I -completely- agree with Puddin that the enemy will not be able to keep track of all of this.
Remember in Melee when people wavedashed to get responses of movements to count what they could do? Like.. some people who are tourny goers can only count up to 4 movements? Maybe 8? Who knows? but not alot.

Take Olimar now. 5 Pikmin, 1 Olimar. That's 6 approaches or counters at least.
Hell, if you do the downthrow combo and look at my flowchart, you'd see that you can do TONS of moves out of it depending on DI (Which usually doesn't even affect it!).

So Who knows? 20+ moves Olimar can do?
Now -that's- mindgames people. Also, mindgames without trying. S:

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

I have yet to fight an opponent who takes the time and effort to not only keep track of my movements, try and predict what I am about to do, and keep up with my Pikmin order all at the same time. I'm not saying they wont occasionally check which is next and predict what you might use it for but it would be just too much for your opponent to keep track of you AND your Pikmin.

Only times I've seen opponents keep up with my pikmin order in this sort of way is if I get a predictable line (such as 3 blues and 3 yellows, or 5 whites and a red - and yes that happened to me before) or if they pressure me in a way that kills most of my pikmin and keeps me from pulling more. Opponents are generally more concerned with what they think you are going to do, and what they'd need to do about it.

 

[SketchHurricane]

I let it just be random...it's too much effort to have to worry about my pikmin order as well as my opponent...cuz I can't always predict when I am going to smash or grab or throw...I usually see what my opponent is going to do and then counter.

Not to mention...if it's random, your opponent will not know what is coming, cuz if they see a purple they know there's going to be a smash, or a blue grab, etc..

Anybody else do the same?

Keeping track is only a lot of trouble if you let it be. I agree with you in that you shouldn't let your pikmin order mess up your natural instincts mid fight. But when your at distance you can make it a quick thing to glance at the line and plan your next offensive. I've learned this from whites alone, glancing quickly and knowing that in three moves I need to use f+b to get rid of that white. Ideally I can use this for other colors when I get better, right?

However, you want to try to keep knowledge on your next three pikmin at least.
If you have red, white blue. This will make me grab, dthrow, SH f+B FF grab/fsmash.
If it's red,blue,white. I'll Grab, SH fair, F+B (normal falling).

To do good combos, pay attention to three or more. (If you play startegy games like chess and such, Olimar is a great character! Haha)

I really like this! But what I said above applies: I'm really not at the level where I can look at the next three and formulate the combo real time. But that's where I want to be. Right now I'm just at the level where I can plan the KO according to the current color options I have.

How about this one? If you have a purple 3rd and they are at low %, you can put your back to the ledge and:

down throw > pivot grab > back throw > spike.

If your first two are whites, you'd get mad range for this too, plus the low knock back would make the grabs chain easier. Use for whites!

 

[Kyas]

Actually, I purposefully follow a cycle of completely ignoring the next pikmin in my line, and then carefully planning my strategy around which pikmin I have next. You see, each pikmin is good for something. A good player will watch Olimar's line in an attempt to predict the competent player--something madepractically impossible if one's moves are based on the line at times, and not at others.

I use the whistle sometimes, but I have yet to truly benefit from it unless I'm going for a grab. I suppose I'll have to get better at that. For now, I just use the SDK values of whistle more than anything else.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Whistle is awesome, not so much for reorganizing the line but for super armoring through attacks to live over 200%

 

[Rocann]

i only pay attention to it when I have like 3 purples, then I get rid of them because I'm not all about having a range of 2 cm. otherwise who cares, it works out fine for me

 

[SketchHurricane]

Whistle is awesome, not so much for reorganizing the line but for super armoring through attacks to live over 200%

So here a question: is the whistle really better than simply dodging? I know the air whistle has to be faster than the air dodge,

I might upload some video clips of me using some of the stuff in this thread. If you guys have any videos with good examples, post links.

 

[Hashire Kazemeijin]

I always use the Whistle to organize my line after every Pluck of 3 or more, or whenever there is a downtime in the fight. Knowing what is next in line is one of the most important parts of my strategy. Unless I'm in a frantic Smash-Fest, I always use whites in F-B, Purples for USmash/DSmash, Blues for death throws, ect.

 

[Rocann]

the fact of the matter is when **** gets going quick you don't have TIME to worry about your line. check out idk me vs mr x see how many times we actually pay any mind to what pikmin is next.

 

[BlackWaltzX]

the fact of the matter is when **** gets going quick you don't have TIME to worry about your line. check out idk me vs mr x see how many times we actually pay any mind to what pikmin is next.

This is how to -not- play Olimar well.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Here's some recent vids of me, when I first started trying to watch my line more closely. I still make a lot of mistakes though :embarrass

vs Bleak (CF) 1
A little "color comentary" if you will
:57 - I go for the purple edge guard
1:14 - looks weird that I run away and do a empty aerial, but I'm actually trying to queue up the yellow for that upsmash KO.
All my other whistling was to queue up the purple for later, but never got to use it.

vs Bleak (CF) 2
Nothing too spectac about this one line-wise, it was just a good match

 

[Roager]

I usually try to keep track of which type is next in line, but I don't plan ahead, or rearrange them. Just to adjust for throw distance, or which attack to use. I am aware that Purple and Blue are not the only pikmin types to spike (I have done it with reds and yellows, but not whites. Dunno if they can. I doubt it.)
Whites: Grab or Throw (lots of damage either way)
Purple: Smash or Aerial (good knockback, and ease of spike)
Red/Yellow: Aerial or Smash (decent damage and knockback)
Blue: Throw or D-air (durability/ease of spike)

 

[Dr. Hyde]

There was a thread a while back on "line efficiency" that wasn't received too well. I stumbled upon it while looking for material on pikmin-specific strategies. Most of us know certain things like the purple pikmin toss for ledge guarding / returning. My question is this: to what degree do YOU mind your pikmin line in a match? Do you just play and whatever happens, happens? Or do you keep strict track of what you want to do with the next pikmin in line?

Personally I use a combination of both. It's easy to get pwned will occupying your mind with what pikmin you have, but I've been experimenting with purposely setting up certain pikmin and it has gotten me the kill at times.

I wanted to write a little guide on how to work in pikmin strats, but I figured I would get as much input into the issue as possible. In the end, we can compile the info into something more than my own little musings.

- - - - - - - - - -
If anyone has vids, post em and I'll put them here.

As far as I know what pikmin I pluck at the start tells me what I'm going to do.

Blue, White, Yellow - I'm gonna rush in grab, forward B, and then follow with a Up smash or Forward smash.

Honestly, I try to make whatever pikmin has the best use used at the right time. Smashing with a white never happens unless my line gets meshed up.

 

[SketchHurricane]

So this guy posted some olimar vids in the tactics forum as a troll, but there actually perfect examples a player paying close attention to the line.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8BsTRqRVhXU

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TQbSrjnnD8E

 

[asob4]

well... that's mr. x. he knows his **** haha

it's not that hard to keep track of your line, after like a day of practice it becomes second nature

 

[jmanxiv]

Okay so you mean like looking at the line and throwing the pikmin you don't like? Or just looking to see what your next pikmin in line is? Cause i do the second one i said. The first one sounds stupid.

 

[shanus]

minding your line is key, but thinking you need to whistle to mind your line isnt a good approach. empty fairs or bairs to reshuffle is just as integral as whistling. However, you don't want to overfocus on your pikmin color or you get locked into a mindset for a specific approach and can pay the consequences of not adapting. just my 2 cents