Mii Brawler Matchup discussion thread

GS3K

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#1
Didn't see a brawler matchup thread anywhere, and since swordfighter and gunner each have one, thought one for brawler should have been put up by now.

Anyways, discuss mii brawler's favorable/unfavorable/even matchups here. I'll try to update the OP as it progresses.
 

Lunarshards

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#3
Brawler and sonic is tough.
zoning with shotput is hard because of sonnics speed. and spindash has high priority. Despite these weaknesses using your down special relieves a lot of pressure due to its options to punish. als, b reverse shut put can cath a lot of people off guard so use it sparingly. where brawler shines agains sonic is through his edge guarding. after taking sonics second jump, shutputting can easily lead to death. Stage spiking is also a nice mixup tool if you condition the opponent with shut put. Due to some of sonics laggy moves an easy one inch punch punish can mean death at extremely low percents. Hope this helped with those struggling with this matchup

Min Weight, Min Height, 1132
 

GS3K

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#4
Brawler and sonic is tough.
zoning with shotput is hard because of sonnics speed. and spindash has high priority. Despite these weaknesses using your down special relieves a lot of pressure due to its options to punish. als, b reverse shut put can cath a lot of people off guard so use it sparingly. where brawler shines agains sonic is through his edge guarding. after taking sonics second jump, shutputting can easily lead to death. Stage spiking is also a nice mixup tool if you condition the opponent with shut put. Due to some of sonics laggy moves an easy one inch punch punish can mean death at extremely low percents. Hope this helped with those struggling with this matchup

Min Weight, Min Height, 1132

I like running 2122 or 2132 in this matchup because having a charged uppercut on standby spells death for sonic (at 80%, this thing will kill him if sweetspotted) if he slips up and gives you a punish opportunity.
 

ArticulateT

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#5
I feel that the Brawler's focus on the close range, even with Shot Put, is best countered with characters that can do a good job at keep away. Palutena comes to mind, since even her normal attacks extend far outside of her hit box (and Auto Reticle really gets on my nerves).

Little Mac also provides a suitable counter to the Brawler, since Brawler fights within Mac's element without quite as much Super Armor to counter it.

Otherwise, the Brawler can counter other close range fighters. I have been finding characters like Captain Falcon and Fox to be particularly easy compared to how I thought they would be, and while I do find Sonic problematic in this version of Smash, the Brawler has a couple of attacks of his own that can counter it.
 

Shakyy

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#6
I find the Yoshi MU and Villager MU pretty difficult, villager just zones you really hard and yoshi just out prioritizes your stuff.
 

kewl

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#8
My worst MU honestly is becoming Luigi & Mario. I have no idea what to do vs their damn fireballs, dthrow combos, and usmash.

Help anyone?
 
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Dapuffster
#9
My Brawler MU opinions

this is considering that the Brawler main is using Default Size and 2122

vs Diddy - 40:60 Diddy's Favor
vs Sheik - 50:50
vs Yoshi - 50:50
Vs Sonic - 55:45 Brawler's Favor
Vs Rosalina - 60:40 Brawler's Favor
vs Pacman - 55:45 Brawler's Favor
vs ZSS - 50:50
vs Mario - 55:45 Brawler's Favor
vs Fox - 50:50
vs Luigi 50:50
vs Falcon 60:40 Brawler's Favor

Basically what I'm trying to get at here is that Diddy is the only character in the game that beats Brawler. If you have any questions just ask.
 

kewl

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#11
My Brawler MU opinions

this is considering that the Brawler main is using Default Size and 2122

vs Diddy - 40:60 Diddy's Favor
vs Sheik - 50:50
vs Yoshi - 50:50
Vs Sonic - 55:45 Brawler's Favor
Vs Rosalina - 60:40 Brawler's Favor
vs Pacman - 55:45 Brawler's Favor
vs ZSS - 50:50
vs Mario - 55:45 Brawler's Favor
vs Fox - 50:50
vs Luigi 50:50
vs Falcon 60:40 Brawler's Favor

Basically what I'm trying to get at here is that Diddy is the only character in the game that beats Brawler. If you have any questions just ask.
I believe Diddy is 55:45 in Diddy's favor. We can combo him fairly easy due to his falling speed and with Brawler's insane air speed, taking bananas (catching or zgrabbing them in the air) and using them in your favor are pretty easy. I believe we dance around Diddy, but when it comes to it, Diddy can also dance around us. It's pretty even but only thing that tells me that Diddy has the advantage is that he can get kills way earlier.

I wanna know why you say Luigi is even and what should I do vs him?
 
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#12
Is 2122 now better than 1122?
Well, in my opinion yes. I personally think that Shot Put is too slow of a projectile to put out safely and characters can use it to their advantage and punish Brawler for using it. Meanwhile, Ultimate Uppercut adds a much needed kill move to Brawler's arsenal that acts as a Pseudo counter. Because of Brawler's mobility he can easily find places and time to charge it up. This also makes approaching Brawler on the ledge incredibly scary, due to the fact that he can do his standard invincible get up into an uppercut, it's punishable but the amount window of time you have to punish it is so small and you risk getting uppercutted in the face. I can't think of many scenarios were you'd actually want Shot Put over Ultimate Uppercut.

I believe Diddy is 55:45 in Diddy's favor. We can combo him fairly easy due to his falling speed and with Brawler's insane air speed, taking bananas (catching or zgrabbing them in the air) and using them in your favor are pretty easy. I believe we dance around Diddy, but when it comes to it, Diddy can also dance around us. It's pretty even but only thing that tells me that Diddy has the advantage is that he can get kills way earlier.

I wanna know why you say Luigi is even and what should I do vs him?

Perhaps, though it is a bit risky to approach Diddy when he has a banana in hand, and we're not very good at gimping him due to the fact that Helicopter Kick does not let us travel very far below the edge. Especially with Diddy's Up B custom it becomes a straight upgrade and he can kill us pretty early with it.

As for Luigi, he's like Mario but with a somewhat worse recovery, which in this case is pretty much non-existent because we can't do much to stop his recovery. I'd also imagine his N-air could combo break us a lot.
 

BigShad

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#13
Jiggs has been hell for me recently. She has about the same range if not more range in her air attacks, and they just know how to weave in and out while delivering hell. Do I just suck or is it the MU?

Short, thin, 2122.
 

NickRiddle

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#14
My Brawler MU opinions

this is considering that the Brawler main is using Default Size and 2122

vs Diddy - 40:60 Diddy's Favor
vs Sheik - 50:50
vs Yoshi - 50:50
Vs Sonic - 55:45 Brawler's Favor
Vs Rosalina - 60:40 Brawler's Favor
vs Pacman - 55:45 Brawler's Favor
vs ZSS - 50:50
vs Mario - 55:45 Brawler's Favor
vs Fox - 50:50
vs Luigi 50:50
vs Falcon 60:40 Brawler's Favor

Basically what I'm trying to get at here is that Diddy is the only character in the game that beats Brawler. If you have any questions just ask.
Which MUs are worse for Small/Thin Brawler, and why plz?
 
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#15
Which MUs are worse for Small/Thin Brawler, and why plz?
That matchup list is pretty outdated, but i'll try to give you my MU experience now.

Tiny Mii Brawler's biggest weakness is his lack of range, if he can't grab you, he probably won't be able to win. None of his attacks have any sort of range and I'm sure you've noticed how small of a hitbox moves like upsmash have. That being said, you need a character who can.... well, not get grabbed while at the same time out range him and punish him for whiffed grabs.

These characters are Luigi, Jigglypuff, Pacman, and Peach, and these four characters have frustrated me more than any other character. Luigi's jab and aerials pretty much beat anything tiny mii brawler can do and his own d-throw combos can kill at higher percents unlike Brawler's, Angel Cortez quickly picked up the character and gave me a TON of trouble.

Next is Jiggs, Jiggs is a character who's playstyle is playing safe and punishing her opponents for their mistakes, in this case, punishing Mii Brawler's whiffed grabs, a good Jiggs player has beaten me in friendlies plenty of times due to this, however, you have to sort of play on point because Brawler can kill her super early, but if she lives past like 60% she's pretty much good and the matchup will be in her favor.

Pacman is annoying as well due to his keepaway game. Generally you want to use the on-fire hydrant and the meteor trampoline custom to keep Brawler away from you as long as possible, however, this strategy too requires you to be pretty darn efficient with Pacman, so probably not advised if you don't actually main him.

Finally we have Peach, god she's annoying to fight, similar to Jigglypuff her floating ability makes her so damn safe and she can punish every single whiffed grab. As a Brawler main you have to play on point and figure out when you can get grabs when you can. I fought a player named Ling-Ling who used peach and knocked me out of winners, I had to play incredibly spacey and lame to beat him in Grand-Finals and it was not easy.

With that said here are my MU ratios

Luigi: 4-6 Luigi's Favor
Jiggs: 55-45 Brawler's Favor
Pacman: 6-4 Brawler's favor
Peach: 4-6 Peach's Favor

Captain Falcon, ZSS, Villager, Yoshi are about 50:50

Diddy/Sheik/Pikachu/Ness/Sonic/Fox/Mario are all solidly in Brawler's favor

dunno about Rosalina, but if you can play as good as Dabuz, its in her favor.
 

NickRiddle

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#16
That matchup list is pretty outdated, but i'll try to give you my MU experience now.

Tiny Mii Brawler's biggest weakness is his lack of range, if he can't grab you, he probably won't be able to win. None of his attacks have any sort of range and I'm sure you've noticed how small of a hitbox moves like upsmash have. That being said, you need a character who can.... well, not get grabbed while at the same time out range him and punish him for whiffed grabs.

These characters are Luigi, Jigglypuff, Pacman, and Peach, and these four characters have frustrated me more than any other character. Luigi's jab and aerials pretty much beat anything tiny mii brawler can do and his own d-throw combos can kill at higher percents unlike Brawler's, Angel Cortez quickly picked up the character and gave me a TON of trouble.

Next is Jiggs, Jiggs is a character who's playstyle is playing safe and punishing her opponents for their mistakes, in this case, punishing Mii Brawler's whiffed grabs, a good Jiggs player has beaten me in friendlies plenty of times due to this, however, you have to sort of play on point because Brawler can kill her super early, but if she lives past like 60% she's pretty much good and the matchup will be in her favor.

Pacman is annoying as well due to his keepaway game. Generally you want to use the on-fire hydrant and the meteor trampoline custom to keep Brawler away from you as long as possible, however, this strategy too requires you to be pretty darn efficient with Pacman, so probably not advised if you don't actually main him.

Finally we have Peach, god she's annoying to fight, similar to Jigglypuff her floating ability makes her so damn safe and she can punish every single whiffed grab. As a Brawler main you have to play on point and figure out when you can get grabs when you can. I fought a player named Ling-Ling who used peach and knocked me out of winners, I had to play incredibly spacey and lame to beat him in Grand-Finals and it was not easy.

With that said here are my MU ratios

Luigi: 4-6 Luigi's Favor
Jiggs: 55-45 Brawler's Favor
Pacman: 6-4 Brawler's favor
Peach: 4-6 Peach's Favor

Captain Falcon, ZSS, Villager, Yoshi are about 50:50

Diddy/Sheik/Pikachu/Ness/Sonic/Fox/Mario are all solidly in Brawler's favor

dunno about Rosalina, but if you can play as good as Dabuz, its in her favor.
Thank you for the input. Once my region gets better vs. Smawler, I'll probably learn mid more.
 
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#17
Thank you for the input. Once my region gets better vs. Smawler, I'll probably learn mid more.
Oh and I forgot to mention, mid Mii Brawler probably beats small since he can basically outrange small in every single way possible, as well as deal more damage in general.

Surprisingly Swordfighter is hard to beat as well, a single hit from the d-air off stage and thats instant death for Mii Brawler, due to his poor vertical recovery.
 
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Marrow

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#18
Oh and I forgot to mention, mid Mii Brawler probably beats small since he can basically outrange small in every single way possible, as well as deal more damage in general.

Surprisingly Swordfighter is hard to beat as well, a single hit from the d-air off stage and thats instant death for Mii Brawler, due to his poor vertical recovery.
Would Piston Punch fare better in the Swordfighter matchup? It probably won't save us from a dair-footstool, but it at least gives us a chance to get back in some circumstances.
 
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NickRiddle

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#19
Would Piston Punch fare better in the Swordfighter matchup? It probably won't save us from a dair-footstool, but it at least gives us a chance.
Piston Punch doesn't really go up that high... maybe the first up-b, Soaring Axe Kick?... but then you have to deal with having that up-b.
 
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#20
Would Piston Punch fare better in the Swordfighter matchup? It probably won't save us from a dair-footstool, but it at least gives us a chance to get back in some circumstances.
Piston Punch doesn't really go up that high... maybe the first up-b, Soaring Axe Kick?... but then you have to deal with having that up-b.
No, using Piston Punch or Soaring Axe Kick would be a terrible idea because swordfighter's d-air can easily trade with those and kill you because of it. Just recover high with feint jump and helicopter kick as usual and then he won't be able to d-air you. With so many horizontal recovery options you can mix up how you get back to the stage so you don't get intercepted by the opponent.
 
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NickRiddle

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#21
No, using Piston Punch or Soaring Axe Kick would be a terrible idea because swordfighter's d-air can easily trade with those and kill you because of it. Just recover high with feint jump and helicopter kick as usual and then he won't be able to d-air you. With so many horizontal recovery options you can mix up how you get back to the stage so you don't get intercepted by the opponent.
I meant if you got hit with dair, you'd be able to survive with Axe Kick.
 
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Dapuffster
#22
I meant if you got hit with dair, you'd be able to survive with Axe Kick.
Yeah i understand, still wayyyy too many drawbacks to it though, such as losing your kill move, and swordfighter EASILY sending you right back down again the moment you try to recover since the darn thing has like no hitboxes going up nor does it autosnap to the ledge.
 
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#24
Sorry but can this be a little more organized please? As in can we discuss matchups, say, on a weekly basis or something, 1 by 1 instead of discussing random matchups at random. Perhaps we could go through the roster starting with Mario and ending with the Mii Gunner which is what most of the other match up threads are doing
 

GS3K

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#25
Sorry but can this be a little more organized please? As in can we discuss matchups, say, on a weekly basis or something, 1 by 1 instead of discussing random matchups at random. Perhaps we could go through the roster starting with Mario and ending with the Mii Gunner which is what most of the other match up threads are doing
Eh, I'll revise it within a week or so. This was just a rough draft to get a little talking going.
 
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Dapuffster
#27
If this is true, why isn't Brawler dominating major tournaments as of now? :rolleyes:
There aren't many good Mii Brawler players atm. And idk about you, but ever since the patch I've won every single tournament I've attended.

Also, the fact that this character is non-existent without customs makes people not want to put time and effort into learning the character. It's a big risk to take and I constantly ask people why they don't want to pick up the character after I demolish them and they just flat out don't want to. So there are you reasoning.

Anybody can pick up mii brawler and start winning matches, but to win a major tournament you have to be dedicated to the character, which, not many people besides myself have really done imo.
 
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Foie

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#28
Totally agree with Jigglymaster about the luigi matchup. Luigi's ariels beat almost all of brawlers and you have to play incredibly on point to not get combo broken by nair. I've had some success baiting the nair and then punishing it, but even that isn't easy with lingering hitboxes.

What size brawler do you use Jigglymaster?
 
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Foie

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#30
Is that because he views small brawler as OP? Or for damage and range benefits? I forgot what he said exactly...

Speaking of which, are the vids of any of his recent tourneys?
 
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BigShad

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#31
Maybe it's because of my playstyle, but I find that short/thin Mii Brawler is kind of overrated. Sure it has extremely low lag, but his range is soooo poor.

Med/med honestly feels better overall due to more range imo, even though I'm still not very good with it.

Or is short/thin better overall and I'm just playing wrong?
 
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#32
It's hard to say, really. Tiny has a hard time performing f-air chain resets as well as footstool resets, both of which Im seeing as the future of the Mii Brawler meta. Also, losing range is a big downside. I still find myself preferring Med/Med because of this. Also, if you don't take distinct advantage of using the most out of your improved frame data as tiny mii brawler, you're just playing a worse Mii Brawler. Tiny is not nearly as easy as people think he is and tons of people make the mistake of jumping straight to him instead of getting used to Med/Med first, which I think is probably the most important thing to do.
 

NickRiddle

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#33
Med/Med just seems like a more honest character to me tbh, it's why I started with Smawler.
That and the fact that Smawler can convert throws into Helicopter Kick at higher %s.
 

Foie

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#34
I've been playing tiny bit I suppose I'll give med/med a shot. Is the grab range noticeable in matchups? Against luigi and others I'd whiff a grab, only to have them punish me with a grab from the same spot. Which sucks haha.

Tiny's speed, mobility, jump height, and end lag are just so amazing...

Are there any merits to 50/0 brawler over 50/50 in matchups? Not trying to veer off topic here.

Btw, brawler's shot put is pretty amazing against a ledge stalling villager, just putting it out there.
 
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NickRiddle

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#35
I've been playing tiny bit I suppose I'll give med/med a shot. Is the grab range noticeable in matchups? Against luigi and others I'd whiff a grab, only to have them punish me with a grab from the same spot. Which sucks haha.

Tiny's speed, mobility, jump height, and end lag are just so amazing...

Are there any merits to 50/0 brawler over 50/50 in matchups? Not trying to veer off topic here.

Btw, brawler's shot put is pretty amazing against a ledge stalling villager, just putting it out there.
And then he pockets shot-put.
And it kills you at 40
 
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#37
I take back what I said about Sheik, after playing against False who's had a good amount of practice with the character and knows how to fight Brawler, I'm confident again that Mii Brawler loses to Sheik, and that the Luigi Brawler matchup might be like 7-3 Luigi's favor.

The fact that Luigi outranges Brawler in every single possible fashion as well as his fireballs giving him the frame advantage on SHEILD? Brawler is practically forced to approach high where Luigi is like "lol okay" then outranges you with anything he feels like. That matchup is hard a hell.

Also, don't use shotput against Villager. I've only found shotput to be useful against Peach and Rosalina so far. Everyone else it has been useless.
 
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NickRiddle

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#38
I take back what I said about Sheik, after playing against False who's had a good amount of practice with the character and knows how to fight Brawler, I'm confident again that Mii Brawler loses to Sheik, and that the Luigi Brawler matchup might be like 7-3 Luigi's favor.

The fact that Luigi outranges Brawler in every single possible fashion as well as his fireballs giving him the frame advantage on SHEILD? Brawler is practically forced to approach high where Luigi is like "lol okay" then outranges you with anything he feels like. That matchup is hard a hell.

Also, don't use shotput against Villager. I've only found shotput to be useful against Peach and Rosalina so far. Everyone else it has been useless.
Fireballs are actually unsafe on hit close to Luigi.
 

adom4

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#39
My Brawler MU opinions

this is considering that the Brawler main is using Default Size and 2122

vs Diddy - 40:60 Diddy's Favor
vs Sheik - 50:50
vs Yoshi - 50:50
Vs Sonic - 55:45 Brawler's Favor
Vs Rosalina - 60:40 Brawler's Favor
vs Pacman - 55:45 Brawler's Favor
vs ZSS - 50:50
vs Mario - 55:45 Brawler's Favor
vs Fox - 50:50
vs Luigi 50:50
vs Falcon 60:40 Brawler's Favor

Basically what I'm trying to get at here is that Diddy is the only character in the game that beats Brawler. If you have any questions just ask.
What do you think of Brawler's matchup with Ganondorf?
From my experience against Brawlers (mostly Keitaro's Brawler) i feel like it might be a difficult match up for Brawler but i'm not sure i've had enough experience so i wanted to hear your input on it.
 

FullMoon

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#40
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