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Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

Malakandra

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With Xivii I don’t mean initial reaction, I mean furthering frustration. It doesn’t read as genuine by any stretch.
Your point about not voting him because you’re frustrated is valid, but I’m talking overall from what he did start to retraction, that’s when I mean it more specifically.
I'm confused here I guess. Could you point to the posts you don't find genuine? I assumed the first post you quoted was what you found not genuine, so I addressed that.
The quote Xivii just posted about Rajam is the one I was going to have to go back and find.
Insert thumbs up emote here, seriously I looked way too long to not find one

Did I answer your concerns in my response to Xivii? I doubted my stance on him for a bit, since there were connections being made, and I didn't want to yeet him before he was caught up, which was a shared sentiment from quite a few people. Is that what you thought I was copying you on?
 

Xivii

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Mala: They’ve been here often, actively participates and again provides observations that are clear attempts to try and solve. It’s hard to fake some of the confusion they have had, which is something a townie will have more then scum due to the latter having better
Z what was the rest of this sentence supposed to be?
 

Z25

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Z what was the rest of this sentence supposed to be?
I’ve made so many posts that I do t remember this word for word, but i believe it was something like a townie would have more confusion as a reaction because they don’t have access to everyone’s alignment.

However thinking about that confusion, the pr soft claims could have worked to create a more natural perspective from that confusion as they would think they know who is who and be able to plan around that. But that’s more conjecture. Overall confusion does come from both sides, so it’s not an end all be all tell. But at the time it looked more townie. But currently Mala has me reconsidering them with their sort of lack of contributing this phase. Im seeing a lot of reactions and questions but less actual takes based on the re read they were doing.
 

Chaco

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I'm confused here I guess. Could you point to the posts you don't find genuine? I assumed the first post you quoted was what you found not genuine, so I addressed that.

Insert thumbs up emote here, seriously I looked way too long to not find one

Did I answer your concerns in my response to Xivii? I doubted my stance on him for a bit, since there were connections being made, and I didn't want to yeet him before he was caught up, which was a shared sentiment from quite a few people. Is that what you thought I was copying you on?
In part yes, but I think you came off of that stance and dove straight into wanting a Rajam Lynch to easily from the stance beforehand. You gave him town cred at that point and then switched to full blown yeet mode when his content only got better, so I’m having a hard time seeing anything but scum motive there.

And yeah I feel like I saw something else to, but digging through post search on a phone is damn near maddening.
 

Chaco

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I'm confused here I guess. Could you point to the posts you don't find genuine? I assumed the first post you quoted was what you found not genuine, so I addressed that.

Insert thumbs up emote here, seriously I looked way too long to not find one

Did I answer your concerns in my response to Xivii? I doubted my stance on him for a bit, since there were connections being made, and I didn't want to yeet him before he was caught up, which was a shared sentiment from quite a few people. Is that what you thought I was copying you on?
Give me time on the top, and I’ll go through the lovely search function and pull everything forward. As I mentioned before it takes a while on a phone to dig through, that’s why I didn’t crop anything yesterday and just quoted as a went. Normally I would bold, italicize, snippet, etc but yeah, phone is no bueno for mafia rereads.
 

Chaco

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^Nevermind Laser, just seems your post rom after I was asleep.

So this is what it comes down to, Mala or Z25 toDay? Personally I prefer Mala now. Z25 is harder for me to pinpoint but he puts in more solidified stances that can’t be retracted, actually can discern more motive from their posts and has some townie points overall from how I’ve read them. Mala slot seems more reserved and careful. I get that vibe from rereading. The posts that should have inflection really lack them, that’s where I’m getting the feel of lack of genuine town concern.

Imo, Mala over Z, then figure out mate from there.
 

Malakandra

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In part yes, but I think you came off of that stance and dove straight into wanting a Rajam Lynch to easily from the stance beforehand. You gave him town cred at that point and then switched to full blown yeet mode when his content only got better, so I’m having a hard time seeing anything but scum motive there.

And yeah I feel like I saw something else to, but digging through post search on a phone is damn near maddening.
I really don't think his content got better though? He wasn't doing anything obviously town, and had other posts that I mentioned that pinged me as scum afterwords, plus Fonti gave me the example of the connection I thought was missing which caused me to lighten up on him.
 

Malakandra

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Also you are a better man than I for actually quoting posts and the like on a phone Chaco. I'm going to be stuck using my phone only soon, and I'm not looking forward to it
 

Malakandra

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Chaco whats your read of Laser? What do you think of the argument for him being scum Xivii posted earlier
 

Chaco

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Chaco whats your read of Laser? What do you think of the argument for him being scum Xivii posted earlier
My Lynch pool is you Z and Laser. I’m trying to figure out which is most likely. Laser has some town motivated things I’ve seen upon reread, which is why I asked his meta for coaching. With Laser he’s not been a huge presence all game, but what bothers me about him (most recently) is when I asked him for his opinion on what I wrote about you, it was a very short answer. I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. That’s maneuverability. It’s not completely iron clad, which is suss to me. There’s no room for maneuverability in stances in endgame. I need hard stances, I don’t care if they change from progression and rereads, but don’t leave room to back out. So that kind of flagged me. Then there’s the thing that I obviously see mafia skill, so I feel he’s been very lacking from what I can see underlying. You don’t play on MS if you don’t seriously play. I used to play on MS and it’s a bit more indoctrinated? For lack of better term.

Z I’m about to reread. I’ve already reread you and Laser.
 

Chaco

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I really don't think his content got better though? He wasn't doing anything obviously town, and had other posts that I mentioned that pinged me as scum afterwords, plus Fonti gave me the example of the connection I thought was missing which caused me to lighten up on him.
Once he got caught up? I feel like it was exponentially better, maybe difference in opinion, but he was actively scumhunting.
 

Chaco

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The difference between your scum and your town play btw is that there is a lack of solving in your scum play and it's surgical. You have a way higher question to content ratio in your town play and it's lighter. The tone in your scum play is as if you're trying to avoid stepping on eggshells. As town, you push what you feel is right, whereas as scum you are pulled along.

There's a ton of questions town!Laser would have asked and interactions he would have had this game, I believe. Such as interacting with me page 1 (for comparison, in SS you asked me about my playstyle), or asking why I believe this is your scum meta. The fact that you didn't seek to poke my mind on that is the most telling I think. I don't see how a curious townie could not. I've seen what you're like in your town quicktopics. Everything is considered. Everything scrutinized, pondered over. It's a puzzle to be solved and that drives you. There's no drive to figure out the game here.

In B99 we butted heads because of our opposing reads. If I recall, there was a day where either you or I were pushing jimbob and the other was opposed to it and we had to fight tooth and nail to get the other to concede. In SS you remained firmly on Z25 despite my attempts to get you to move elsewhere. Here you're just following consensus. You had no concern for who we yeeted on any of the days.
I just read through this again, and this is exactly the concern I just voiced. The knowledge is there, but the motive behind it is not. It seems he’s treading instead of actively scumhunting. I can see and feel the underlying skill.

Which paired with his noncommittal stance on Mala, makes them likely partners...
 

Chaco

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I’m good with Mala toDay, and Laser tomorrow flip dependent. Either way truthfully, I’m gonna leave that to en masse disgression. ie Xiv, DP, Ex
 

Xivii

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Scummate Analysis
O = Potential Scummates
X = Unlikely Scummates
X = Not Scummates

(No Pun Intended)


X Malakandra and Laser
I wasn't really able to get a good impression of Laserguy's play last game since he died so early, but I don't see the scum links here. Laserguy has seemed to be methodical, and I agree with his take in post #216 about Pit. Other than that I didn't notice much about him in the read through.
I would also like more of a case for the people on Laserguy. The argument I see from Fonti and Jack is he hasn't immediately made himself look town to them so he's scum? I would like clarification on that.
What? why do things need to be more spicy and can you give justification?
Alright, to make sure it goes that way then. I don't think Xivii is going to pick up at all, and I'd like to avoid a jump onto Laser here.

Vote Frozen Flame
Hold on, let me go re read laser yesterday. I want to see how much he thought Xivii was town. If he didn't think Xivii was town before then yeeted onto FF because Xivii told him too thats odd. Also, point taken. I know I probably wouldn't of changed if I didn't see the Laser vote which I made it pretty clear the Xivii wagon wasn't going to pick up, but I realize I've been clouded by my own perspective in this.

Unvote
The hard defense of Laser and overtly stating that he followed him on the Frozen wagon and that he wanted to avoid a switch onto him is possible to come from a scummate, but it would be some 5-D level of scum play. Considering that Mala's first forum game of mafia consisted of two scummates hard town reading each other though, I don't think it's entirely outside the realm of possibility.

30% Scummates

X Malakandra and Chaco
I'm liking Rajam a bit more. Still waiting for him to totally catch up, but I don't think the Jackrito slot and FF slot had any glaringly bad interactions, and his catch up posts have been better than most. I think he has me too high, especially since I'm higher than Chaco who was kept an incredibly high post count and not had a scummy look to him, which is hard.
I don't think this line comes from a scummate. I said above that it's possible for Mala to play in a way where he town reads his mates, but the difference between his treatment of Laser and Chaco is that he is being straight on with what actually makes him townie. Whereas with Laser, it was more of an indirect conclusion based on the votes on him (from ExLight and Jack).

0% Scummates

X Malakandra and Z25
Why Would you want Rax to reveal this? Sounds like fishing.
Yah, its not rational, but it makes sense from his perspective. He wanted to live to the next day, saw the issue of him dying early as him posting a lot, so set out to fix that. I think its a shame, and hope next game he'll post, but I don't feel its alignment indicative for Ninja.
I'm pretty sure this is regards to Z25's reaction to Xivii retracting his claim. IIRC, Xivii retracted his claim, Z25 posted about something else, than posted about Xivii. I think Boom was saying that z25 had a strong reaction to Xivii's retraction, but it was fake because he posted something else first.

I disagree on that point because Z didn't seem that heated or emotional in the post Boom was talking about, and I know sometimes the pages don't load all the posts properly. I'd have to go back and check to see how much time had passed between Xivii's post and Z's though for that point.
Zen you really feel like your doing less to solve the game and more just berating random players.

So why are you doing all of this?
Good breakdown
Xivii Xivii

I don’t know if I see mala flipping suck though. It’s Worth considering . I think Rajam needs to go first because if they flip scum, we can definitely gain a lot of information and finding their mate shouldn’t be too hard from there. A town flip of them gives us a lot to evaluate as well.

Whereas Town Mala doesn’t gives us the same extent, and scum mala could be buddies with someone other than Rajam. It really comes down to the Rajam flip first imo.
I literally said I don’t think it’s mala though and a Rajam flip would make me consider it but not the other way around.

How is that opportunistic?
The interaction between these two throughout the game has been organic. There is no distancing from either player. Z25 interprets my play as trying to manipulate Rax. Mala hard defends Z25/Ninja. And Z's response to my Rajam/Mala case does not look informed.

0% Scummates

So, Mala is only scum with LaserGuy, and even that is unlikely. Later on, I'll look at:


Chaco and Laser
Z25 and Laser
Chaco and Z25
 

Darkpit54

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Reread Mala, Z, and Laser and bring forth what you see
Will do. Right now I'm pretty confident that Laser is scum, and I'm getting pretty convinced Mala could be too. I really don't see Z as being as scummy as most are saying, but I'll try to quote some reasons on that in a minute

And yeah I feel like I saw something else to, but digging through post search on a phone is damn near maddening.
Also you are a better man than I for actually quoting posts and the like on a phone Chaco. I'm going to be stuck using my phone only soon, and I'm not looking forward to it
These posts scare me. I exclusively use my phone for this lol. What am I missing out on? What's so bad about it?
 

Chaco

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Will do. Right now I'm pretty confident that Laser is scum, and I'm getting pretty convinced Mala could be too. I really don't see Z as being as scummy as most are saying, but I'll try to quote some reasons on that in a minute




These posts scare me. I exclusively use my phone for this lol. What am I missing out on? What's so bad about it?
Trying to organize posts. Bold italicize sections of interest, keeping things in order. It’s frustrating for me. Of course this is the first time I’ve played mafia in years and it’s from my phone, when I was always on my PC before. I couldn’t imagine hosting from my phone. It would be a nightmare. Formatting and keeping things linear with large sections is text is my biggest battle.
Of course then again, I haven’t seen you quote tons of things and try to keep it organized and write between it and highlight, color etc. like what Xivii just did above? Never gonna happen from a phone lol
 

Chaco

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I used to do a breakdown during games where I added points and took away so that it was positive or negative, indicating my read as town it scum. So the post would be fairly large and have green and red highlighted sections with an overall tally on all slots. I would put my head through a wall doing that now without a computer. Probably would’ve been helpful, but I can’t take the time to do it now. Of course I didn’t have a family then either, and I do now. Which makes quite a bit of difference in itself.
 

Darkpit54

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Ahhh that's valid. Formatting is frustrating :(

Guess what? Whenever I post a ****ton, I die. Every single time. Plus, we just started. I'm waiting till we get more posts to make reads.
3ds is obviously pretty null, but I have to believe that with a mate as skilled as Frozen coaching him this guy would've gotten the help he needed for this game, right? Maybe I'm wrong, but the slot reads as town to me even with 3ds

Well as I said, I just played with scum zen and his motto was leave no teammate behind. He played it very smart and didn’t really go after his teammates as potential scum. He knows how to play it off well.

And true your reads can change over time that’s pretty fair. I actually was iffy on Cha early on, but their content got better and better as I read through.

So I understand that process completely. I just found it interesting how fast you were to change things based on a small note. Doesn’t mean your scum, but your right about changing your opinions in games fast.
The analysis here on Xiv reads pretty townie to me, especially with Xivii confirmed town. These type of posts are a large part of why I like this slot.

Because again, Zen has claimed twice and somehow not be targeted by scum. Maybe I’m overthinking it but that’s really sketchy. And he could still be counter claimed. I’ll change my mind if that happens obviously but my god if he’s town he’s play has been god damn terrible. It’s thrown everything up in the air and made this way harder to solve then it should have been.
This post I just really don't see coming from scum when no one counterclaims. There are so many better people to push for a misyeet, that this reads as very paranoid townie to me. These posts wouldn't really accomplish anything for a scumteam that didn't plan to cc, whereas I can see a motivation for them for town, as as far as they know a cc could still have been coming

I genuinely don't see that number as a stretch.

But a brief breakdown because theres a a lot of content to pull from for that.

Let's start early with day one,

48 is a brief post that outlines a few reads, does not overstep things, make bad assumptions(Like my top read in Laser's opening read on NSG) and it comes off very natural. They proceeded to sort naturally by asking you about past games and the meta of other players. 442 Ialso give points for, for not leaning into the easy 3ds yeet and realizing that his behavior didn't mean scum. Sure you could argue scum would do this to look good, but yeeting 3ds wouldn't have drawn suspicion and work way more in their favor. So they feel very town motivated day one. The rest of their posts day one involved answering and asking questions which kept a very strong activity. I can't really see anything wrong with their content there .

Day Two: They open talking about how they want Boom and 1,046 paints a good reasoning that makes more sense to come from town perspective then scum. Its a solid natural progression. 1,196 showcases them calling out EX on the drunk posting. Which is even more interesting when you realize Trisscar called them out on this earlier that day and mentioned how trying to bait masons was anti town. A slip by Triss that I think Scum Chaco would have noticed if they were piggybacking off of Triss's dislike of the drunk posting. Which leads me to they likely were not and those were actual thoughts on Triss by Chaco that comes from a townie perspective more then a scum one imo. 1,432 again shows strong town intent where they put together a lot of content by Frozen to prove why a Boom connection makes sense. Thats a lot of scum hunting, that that early in a game, scum won't usually go for. Then a few posts down, he mentions the possibilities of pocketing, keeping things open minded. At that point, most scum would just push for the Boom lynch under one mindset, not multiple. Most of the actual content that day comes from you, fonti, and chaco. With a lot of discussion coming from you three on the state of the game while everyone else comes off a little back seating. His reaction to your claim retraction also feels like frustrated town rather then an angry scum, because I can't see why scum would react like that.

Day Three: 2,131 is another post mentioning them rereading the thread. Something they seem to have done multiple times based on posts. Which seems backed upon by their reads and changing in views that I've mentioned. 2,203 brings up an intriguing point, that while it wound up being wrong, is a point I doubt scum thinks of, let alone aims to use to push a lynch when Rajam was another sketchy slot based on a lot of things Rajam had done. For example after a re read, they are much more accepting of Zen and look elsewhere to try and find scum. Which is again a very open mind you won't usually find in scum. 2,311 further shows they took lessons from the re read and made a change in their reads and mindset. This effort doesn't come so much from scum. Its something I find to come from a townie perspective, those changes feel nature and reading them, it feels like it came from a re read, not actually pre meditated. His literally next post is also a great rebuttal to that Laser post. A few posts later, he goes in on his thoughts on Jack Vs Triss, which is a response to Triss asking in 2,385 that shows a basis for why he had thought this because again, his re read led to this conclusion.

This is why I believe the slot is very likely Town. They have natural progression in reads, good content, have been active, stand with their points rather then folding and playing into the shenanigans this game has had. Hes clearly been actively invested in trying to solve and help. It makes him very unlikely to flip scum imo when I distrust other slots more. That's why I think the town core for sure right now are Zen, Chaco, DP. The rest I believe by process of elimination have better shots at flipping scum imo. With Laser I still think could be a good yeet today as he does work with teams, or if he does flip scum, it shouldn't be hard to figure out his partner.

Maybe I'm wrong on Chaco and if anyone has any scum points against him, I'm open for hearing it, but I don't think I make a play on yeeting this slot without the yeet from another shot first.
I think I've said this before but I just really like this post. There's so much substance and analysis to it that I can't imagine scum, or even most town putting in the effort (just compare this post to it. I don't have a post like that in me lol). So I think it reads well for him.

Anyway these were the highlights of my Z reread lol, I think he's by far the least likely to be scum of the three currently in the main PoE
 

LaserGuy

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Why did you want Rajam's flip in order to inform your Mala read? The case I made was a Rajam/Mala case and you stated that you would consider Mala if the Rajam flip in mind. It seems though that you would have gone Mala either way, seeing as Rajam flipped town and you have Mala at 70%.
I feel there were enough points independently of Rajam for Mala to move into the scum pool.

The difference between your scum and your town play btw is that there is a lack of solving in your scum play and it's surgical. You have a way higher question to content ratio in your town play and it's lighter. The tone in your scum play is as if you're trying to avoid stepping on eggshells. As town, you push what you feel is right, whereas as scum you are pulled along.
As I said earlier, I adopt a variety of different playstyles. At the end of our tenure at xkcd, bessie would often complain that I could pitch my game to be read any way that I wanted. While I don't think I have quite that level of precision, I definitely can let myself be read as strong Town, null, or scum, by a majority of players and flip Town against all of them.

There's a ton of questions town!Laser would have asked and interactions he would have had this game, I believe. Such as interacting with me page 1 (for comparison, in SS you asked me about my playstyle), or asking why I believe this is your scum meta. The fact that you didn't seek to poke my mind on that is the most telling I think. I don't see how a curious townie could not. I've seen what you're like in your town quicktopics. Everything is considered. Everything scrutinized, pondered over. It's a puzzle to be solved and that drives you. There's no drive to figure out the game here.
You are locktown at this point. I don't need to sort you. Whether you think this is my Town or scum meta does not actually help me solve the game.

In B99 we butted heads because of our opposing reads. If I recall, there was a day where either you or I were pushing jimbob and the other was opposed to it and we had to fight tooth and nail to get the other to concede. In SS you remained firmly on Z25 despite my attempts to get you to move elsewhere. Here you're just following consensus. You had no concern for who we yeeted on any of the days.
In SS I was pretty sure z25 was scum from page 1 or 2. I definitely don't feel I have had that level of clarity this game.

What makes you so sure today isn't Lylo btw?
I was reasonably certain that scum would counterclaim if it were LYLO today. There's also those votes that were dangling for quite awhile.

^Nevermind Laser, just seems your post rom after I was asleep.

So this is what it comes down to, Mala or Z25 toDay? Personally I prefer Mala now. Z25 is harder for me to pinpoint but he puts in more solidified stances that can’t be retracted, actually can discern more motive from their posts and has some townie points overall from how I’ve read them. Mala slot seems more reserved and careful. I get that vibe from rereading. The posts that should have inflection really lack them, that’s where I’m getting the feel of lack of genuine town concern.

Imo, Mala over Z, then figure out mate from there.
Well, I think realistically it will probably come down to me/z25. But Mala definitely should be considered.
 

Xivii

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And I suppose you could argue I would put in that effort to look good as scum, but would I? No. My biggest problem as scum is formulating nature reads because I have the knowledge of every slot. I wouldn’t have needed to pull all that out in Chaco if I was scum and I wouldn’t waste the time, because I’m not on too hot a seat.

Even Zen can vouch I’d say my reads suck when I am scum.

My Chaco breakdown exists because I really found no good reason for people suspecting them and trust my gut on my reads.I fully believe out last two scum are within Mala, Laser or even Ex right now.
I don't agree with this at all actually. Here's an example of you doing something similarly as scum: https://smashboards.com/threads/sorcerers-11-open.496864/page-14#post-23821631

And here's an even bigger megapost: https://smashboards.com/threads/sorcerers-11-open.496864/page-17#post-23822900
 

Xivii

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Xivii

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As I said earlier, I adopt a variety of different playstyles. At the end of our tenure at xkcd, bessie would often complain that I could pitch my game to be read any way that I wanted. While I don't think I have quite that level of precision, I definitely can let myself be read as strong Town, null, or scum, by a majority of players and flip Town against all of them.
So are you saying you're deliberately playing to be read as scum? Regardless that's beside the point. I agree that there is a great deal of variation in terms of activity/content, but each and every one of your scum games contain the features I described. And each of your town games contain the town features I described. The only game that doesn't align with either is Werewolf on Wallstreet where you were an Anti-Jester.
I feel there were enough points independently of Rajam for Mala to move into the scum pool.
Then why did you only want to consider him based on the information Rajam's flip provided?
You are locktown at this point. I don't need to sort you. Whether you think this is my Town or scum meta does not actually help me solve the game.
You don't need to sort me, but I need to sort you. It's a team game. Helping me understand where I'm wrong prevents us from misyeeting you and helps us ultimately yeet scum. It's hard to see a town player not attempt to gauge why another thinks this is their scum meta and attempt to rectify their misunderstanding.
I was reasonably certain that scum would counterclaim if it were LYLO today. There's also those votes that were dangling for quite awhile.
My claim was strong and was strongly believed. Almost everyone else had already claimed or alluded to being a VT. And if you thought DP was mason, did you really think scum would counterclaim him when he's been universally town read? Additionally, if there is a traitor, scum can't coordinate the hammer.
 

Malakandra

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Malakandra Malakandra no essay style argument this game?
Not yet atleast. I currently feel we have the right pool for the most part, Atleast one of Z25 and Laser is scum, if not both. If it turns out one of them is the traitor or something, which I doubt, then we'll see. I used the essay last game because its the best way I knew how to convince people about a case in a text form.
 

Malakandra

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I'm really not feeling a traitor at all now that I think about it.
Colors range from green being Traitor, to red being not a traitor

Xivii- Is a mason

DP - Has been super townie all game, don't think the position he is in would be good for traitor

Exlight - A lot of what looks like genuine confusion about the traitor role

Chaco - Some mechanical posts that seem to indicate knowledge I traitor would have that he doesn't

Z25 - Day 2 posts about traitor, and other behavior not likely traitor

Laserguy - Don't think traitor places the vote on the FF wagon when Laser did.
 

Malakandra

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Not saying we shouldn't be cautious and treat today like it could it be lylo, better safe than sorry.
 

Malakandra

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Because the Xivi wagon was at 3 votes. Laser placing his vote there would have let FF self prez making the wagons 5v4, Z voted after deadline, but him voting would have tied it up at 5 v 5 if he voted FF there, so no elim.

Traitor doesn't need the credit from bussing, preserving a scum member an extra day even would help a lot especially if you could get a misyeet on a town along with it.
 

Xivii

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And tbr I don’t that post was jest because he went through and looked at multiple peoples activities, so how do you see that as jest?
Chaco you keep saying that you realized my opening post was a joke, but you clearly say here that you didn't think my post was a joke.
 

Z25

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I don't agree with this at all actually. Here's an example of you doing something similarly as scum: https://smashboards.com/threads/sorcerers-11-open.496864/page-14#post-23821631

And here's an even bigger megapost: https://smashboards.com/threads/sorcerers-11-open.496864/page-17#post-23822900
I’ll give you that these are great examples. But on a meta level I disagree.

for one the first quote Is pretty early. On top of the fact I’m usually day one scum read I had to put that out to look good. I didn’t need to do the same here because Im again not being pressured. If I was scum I would cave to that and try to appeal as much as possible. here I did it limit the pool.

Besides, correct me if I’m wrong but you took a lot of issue with my reads and didn’t think they were real there. You don’t seem to think the same here so why bring it up, unless you do?

For that second post A lot of it was also over doing it to look good because I genuinely thought I had to. You were catching onto m that game fast. So my strat was to win everyone else over with my effort.

I think you can see that’s very different from the current circumstances.
 

LaserGuy

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So are you saying you're deliberately playing to be read as scum? Regardless that's beside the point. I agree that there is a great deal of variation in terms of activity/content, but each and every one of your scum games contain the features I described. And each of your town games contain the town features I described. The only game that doesn't align with either is Werewolf on Wallstreet where you were an Anti-Jester.
I was aiming more for nullTown which I managed to hold for the first couple of phases. I've tried playing scummy on purpose once before (wam's simple) and will probably never do that again. I was scumread so strongly by so many players that my scum points had a negative overflow error and I went back to Town again, but I had to put up with being simultaneously tunneled by Sabrar, plytho and bessie (all Town) for a very long time. We did win that game, but it was definitely in spite of me. Sad I don't have that game, but you can infer from my notes that this is what I'm doing, and I'm pretty clearly just trolling this whole game. Likewise, in WoT3 I say my plan was to lurk as Town (#25) and all of my analysis is the behind the scenes in my QT. Contrast B99 where I pretty much just threw all of my thoughts in the thread and have nothing extra in analysis. I play a variety of different styles as Town and assertiveness/aggressiveness are not something that is always going to show up.

Then why did you only want to consider him based on the information Rajam's flip provided?
I felt Rajam was more likely to flip scum. I thought Rajam/Chaco was the most probable scum team.

My claim was strong and was strongly believed. Almost everyone else had already claimed or alluded to being a VT.
I disagree. You had already claimed as well so your claim was weak. I think if you had been counterclaimed by basically anyone except me there's a good chance you would have been yeeted today unless you've left a very convincing breadcrumb. You had already spent that credit on the chocolate claim, and mafia would only need one townie to waver.

And if you thought DP was mason, did you really think scum would counterclaim him when he's been universally town read? Additionally, if there is a traitor, scum can't coordinate the hammer.
I made that comment in reference to your claim specifically. DP, no, I don't think mafia would counterclaim. But you, yes, I think they probably would have tried.
 

Xivii

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Z25 Z25 yes I do disagree with you because of these reasons:

ExLight's not posting like a wolf. And Rajam's Jester-like-wifom is making me suspect that we don't yet have the correct solve. There's been a number of things nagging me about Chaco throughout the game:

  • His but no I'm not lurking statement page 1
  • Gunning for me when Fonti had laid out a solid case for why I was town and believing that Fonti could be cleared which would have essentially "cleared" me.
  • Promoting a no lynch
  • Failing to join the frozen train while pushing a town counterwagon.
  • Attempt to get PRs to claim NUMEROUS TIMES. I don't think we can ignore this any longer. On Day 1, he danced around trying to get the Neap to claim early. Today he advocated for masons claiming when it was completely unnecessary. And just now he tried to verify that I was VT.
What do you think of each point?
 
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