Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[Z25]

-Overplayed reaction to my antics.
-No real attempt at pushing sorting anyone.
-Attempt to direct the tracker.

These are good points, I would also add( although it kind goes hand in hand with the first point) that his early content feels more reactive then proactive.

Like a lot of his content is actually questions of try to give advice to players and look good. A strategy that isn’t too far out there with scum.

 

[Z25]

However I’ll say this now, that I kinda of agree with whoever it was that said if Zen hasn’t caught scum by day 3 to look at him.

Town this is incredibly good at formulating strategies to out scum( see token mafia).

Scum Zen is also very smart, if he claims early, he has good confidence in making it due to other knowledge, or he has a good fake claim idea, like how in sumthing sumthing mafia.

So while I believe this is town Zen, it’s worth a re look down the line if we aren’t doing good.

 

[fontisian]

Vote BoomFrog

Mostly just trusting Xivii and fonti. Z25 or somi slots are also fine with me. I have limited availability today... Probably just quick posts on phone now and then.

UtopianPoyzin could we get a VC?

I am not confident in this, so don't trust me.

I don't think I want to kill Z, though. And I don't want to kill someone who can't claim, with somi.

 

[BoomFrog]

**** it. I'm convinced this is enemy action at this point. I'm not going out without a fight.

Vote Xivii

Xivii has been gunning for me all day. They've let bringing up points against me, I've refuted them and they let it drop quietly, but then find another point. Town Xivii would have tried to work with me to scum hunt and collaborate. Town Xivii would have dropped his self referential antics when I said they made it hard for me to read them. Town Xivii would have explained why they claimed chocolate so late.

Think about the chocolate claim. When I brought up Xivii agreed, and said "visitor should claim too". Why would chocolate xivii not claim at that time. By the time he claimed it was pretty clear no one was going to claim, and it was safe to go for it. It's a bold play, but xivii is bold and if it works they are "confirmed town" for the whole game. The payoff was worth it and the risk was low.

Think about the Xivii's antic. I agreed with LaserGuy that it was a gambit to generate reactions, but xivii hasn't done any analysis based on it. They are only using it to target me. If it was a gambit for reactions they would use it to analyze everyone. There's good info there, if I had time I'd go through it.

Imagine this from Scum Xivii's point of view and a lot of the weirdness snaps into place. We just had a game where he snowed me and he posted in the after game that he was terrified if me catching him all the time I was alive. Now here we are and he rolled scum again and I'm on high alert. He needs to do something wild and aggressive. He goes on the offensive right away. He needs to discredit me because he doesn't believe he can convince me that he's town.

I'm playing boardgames with friends today. Weekend deadlines suck. Xivii will probably get me yeeted today by volume and persistence. But unless there is something compelling, seriously consider yeeting him Tomorrow.

 

[fontisian]

**** it. I'm convinced this is enemy action at this point. I'm not going out without a fight.

Vote Xivii

Xivii has been gunning for me all day. They've let bringing up points against me, I've refuted them and they let it drop quietly, but then find another point. Town Xivii would have tried to work with me to scum hunt and collaborate. Town Xivii would have dropped his self referential antics when I said they made it hard for me to read them. Town Xivii would have explained why they claimed chocolate so late.

Think about the chocolate claim. When I brought up Xivii agreed, and said "visitor should claim too". Why would chocolate xivii not claim at that time. By the time he claimed it was pretty clear no one was going to claim, and it was safe to go for it. It's a bold play, but xivii is bold and if it works they are "confirmed town" for the whole game. The payoff was worth it and the risk was low.

Think about the Xivii's antic. I agreed with LaserGuy that it was a gambit to generate reactions, but xivii hasn't done any analysis based on it. They are only using it to target me. If it was a gambit for reactions they would use it to analyze everyone. There's good info there, if I had time I'd go through it.

Imagine this from Scum Xivii's point of view and a lot of the weirdness snaps into place. We just had a game where he snowed me and he posted in the after game that he was terrified if me catching him all the time I was alive. Now here we are and he rolled scum again and I'm on high alert. He needs to do something wild and aggressive. He goes on the offensive right away. He needs to discredit me because he doesn't believe he can convince me that he's town.

I'm playing boardgames with friends today. Weekend deadlines suck. Xivii will probably get me yeeted today by volume and persistence. But unless there is something compelling, seriously consider yeeting him Tomorrow.

He claimed before I said anything. I'm sure there were others as well, I can go back and check.

 

[BoomFrog]

To clarify. I won't be able to post much before deadline. If LaserGuy, Darkpit or Chaco asks me to claim then I will.

 

[BoomFrog]

He claimed before I said anything. I'm sure there were others as well, I can go back and check.

But he'd said "visitor should claim too." So he'd agreed chocolate should claim. Why not claim immediately?

 

[fontisian]

Literally the only people who claimed not chocolate before Xivii claimed were Boom, Chaco and Darkpit.

 

[LaserGuy]

Literally the only people who claimed not chocolate before Xivii claimed were Boom, Chaco and Darkpit.

Several people, I including myself and Triss suggested earlier that the chocolate should should claim or agreed with that statement, which is unlikely to come from the chocolate themselves.

 

[Chaco]

I feel like Xivii has an early feeler out D1 about Choc, or maybe it was in response to mechanics talks with Triss or Fonti. Idk, but I remember seeing that somewhere and don’t really wanna look back right this second cause I am ridiculously hung over.

 

[Chaco]

Me personally I still like a MalaLynch over Boom or any other slot. I feel like having enough exchange with BoomFrog some of their answers were just dead ass town ring, I could be fooled by that, but out of the exchange where I was saying Raxx/Xivii/Boom I’m still the most comfortable with the Raxx slot.

Xivii in my eyes is only safe because of activity levels and claim, at the moment.

Z slot replacing in is harder for me to read because haven’t had specific conversation with them.

 

[fontisian]

I absolutely do not want to kill Mala.

 

[Chaco]

BoomFrog yeet just doesn’t seem informed to me, not that we really have an informed yeet target anywhere. I see the things that are being pointed out, the only one I don’t agree with is directing the tracker. Cause I potentially would be guilty of that too, because I’m trying to figure out the best way to break N actions so we get the most out of it, as well.

The push on me was weak from their slot initially, but I’ve even looked back at my early D1 play and it was hard to sort out.

Reaction to Xivii though I can see more, but then again, could be a general I’ll never trust this slot again type deal.

 

[Xivii]

Xivii , the fact that you ignored this question really feels like you are scum trying to push an agenda instead of engaging with me. You are acting like either you are scum, or you are 100% sure I am scum and have zero consideration that I could be town and you should try and get me on board to work together.

Why did you ignore this question originally?
Why did you you wait so long to claim chocolate?
Do you think everyone should 100% believe your claim even through LYLO?

Simply forgot to answer. Chocolate is like miller in this game. My original game plan was to draw the night kill, hence my overplaying my townie strat. Decided to claim after Chaco pointed out that we could determine if there was a traitor* and how many ninja shots the maf have.

*at least that's what I thought at the time, but I misinterpreted

 

[Xivii]

I still feel good about a Boom yeet. He isn't even trying to read me (or others).

 

[fontisian]

Several people, I including myself and Triss suggested earlier that the chocolate should should claim or agreed with that statement, which is unlikely to come from the chocolate themselves.

Wait, if you're voting for Boomfrog because you trust me and Xivii, then why are now doubtcasting Xivii's claim?

 

[LaserGuy]

Wait, if you're voting for Boomfrog because you trust me and Xivii, then why are now doubtcasting Xivii's claim?

I trust Xivii because I think his play is Town. As I said in my reads, I'm not giving a lot of extra credit to his claim because I think it was late enough to be plausibility faked.

 

[Z25]

Me personally I still like a MalaLynch over Boom or any other slot. I feel like having enough exchange with BoomFrog some of their answers were just dead ass town ring, I could be fooled by that, but out of the exchange where I was saying Raxx/Xivii/Boom I’m still the most comfortable with the Raxx slot.

Xivii in my eyes is only safe because of activity levels and claim, at the moment.

Z slot replacing in is harder for me to read because haven’t had specific conversation with them.

Well let’s change that. How do you feel about Boom’s points when you look at the below quotes.

Btw, just to get some formalities out of the way. Chocolate should claim right now if they exist. Chocolate is basically Miller for the Neo. If they claim now they will be mostly believed. But if you claim chocolate on a later Day then it's too late.

Secondly, if I'm dead and we haven't caught scum yet on D3, then yeet Xivii (unless he's Mason confirmed by another Mason). Seriously, just assume you are being played.

May as well just have visitor claim too tbh

It is worth noting that Zen responded pretty fast to boom’s point( but timing doesn’t matter for that), and then tried to get the visitor role to claim.

If we play Devils advocate, scum Zen would be looking to get a valued role putted right away, likely so scum can stop them.

Town Zen really has no reason to not claim chocolate here because it would look good and scum would more then likely be looking elsewhere.

Also worth noting, that post by Boom specifically mentions the Chocolate Role and lynching Zen.

Isn’t it a bit coincidental that Zen has the exact role Boom wanted to have someone claim?

Not to mention Zen waited so long as said to claim and Boom’s post literally says if they wait to near end of day it can’t be trusted. This is also way to much of a coincidence. It feels like Zen was really paying attention to this post when you look at the claim and when he claimed later on.

This is just a little odd the more you think on it. But what are your thoughts?

Of course anyone can also chime in.

 

[Darkpit54]

Town Xivii would have tried to work with me to scum hunt and collaborate. Town Xivii would have dropped his self referential antics when I said they made it hard for me to read them. Town Xivii would have explained why they claimed chocolate so late.

To clarify. I won't be able to post much before deadline. If LaserGuy, Darkpit or Chaco asks me to claim then I will.

Posts like these make me inclined to think this is town, though I think we should to wait until Tomorrow to get a claim, imo. The argument about Xivii makes sense, although I'm willing to believe that he's town for now, but I like Z's analysis

I absolutely do not want to kill Mala.

Could you explain why?

 

[Malakandra]

Hey Z, you mentioned earlier you had a readslist, but were waiting to see if anyone was going to Counter Claim Xivii before posting it. It doesn't look like anyone is going to, could you post it now?

 

[Malakandra]

Well let’s change that. How do you feel about Boom’s points when you look at the below quotes.


It is worth noting that Zen responded pretty fast to boom’s point( but timing doesn’t matter for that), and then tried to get the visitor role to claim.

If we play Devils advocate, scum Zen would be looking to get a valued role putted right away, likely so scum can stop them.

Town Zen really has no reason to not claim chocolate here because it would look good and scum would more then likely be looking elsewhere.

Also worth noting, that post by Boom specifically mentions the Chocolate Role and lynching Zen.

Isn’t it a bit coincidental that Zen has the exact role Boom wanted to have someone claim?

Not to mention Zen waited so long as said to claim and Boom’s post literally says if they wait to near end of day it can’t be trusted. This is also way to much of a coincidence. It feels like Zen was really paying attention to this post when you look at the claim and when he claimed later on.

This is just a little odd the more you think on it. But what are your thoughts?

Of course anyone can also chime in.

Right, the only reason I can see for Xivii to hold revealing until he did was trying to bait a scum into claiming chocolate. Its all WIFOM.

 

[Darkpit54]

Right, the only reason I can see for Xivii to hold revealing until he did was trying to bait a scum into claiming chocolate. Its all WIFOM.

This could be true; I hadn't thought of that before

I really hope Chaco is Choco

This reads interestingly post claim lmao.

 

[fontisian]

Ok, so Boom, Chaco, Darkpit said they weren't chocolate and Laser and Trisscar implied they weren't chocolate before Xivii's claim. Keep in mind that a town!chocolate can imply they aren't to see if a scum will take the bait and claim. Let's assume that scum have 1 ninja shots in a scum!Xivii world, because if there are three he'd know there is a town chocolate. Scum!Xivii then would have asked the visitor to claim to ascertain if the setup was 1 chocolate, or 1 visitor and 1 traitor. At the time of the claim, Scum!Xivii wouldn't have known anything about the roles belonging to me, Z, Jack, Frozen, Somi, Mala, NSG. Now, two of those could be scummates. So, in order for Xivii to be scum, he'd have to have claimed while not knowing anything about the roles of at least five people. That's a very poor choice for scum to make, guys.

 

[Malakandra]

Do we have any idea if we are going to get a Somi replacement anytime soon?

 

[Malakandra]

Scum!Xivii then would have asked the visitor to claim to ascertain if the setup was 1 chocolate, or 1 visitor and 1 traitor.

Doesn't there have to be both a visitor and a chocolate for there to be a traitor

 

[fontisian]

Xivii , do you think scum!Male keep pushing you after you claim chocolate? He'd know that a visitor is in the setup, and that the 0-ninja theory he posted was going to get destroyed. I think his push and his thoughts about the setup are genuine.

This is also pretty town. Something I see a lot from scum players is a "caught for the wrong reasons" mentality. Like, "yes, I am mafia, but I would have done x as town too, how dare you push me for that." The beginning of this post kind of has that shape to it, as mala was frustatrated at being judged by what Raxxel did, but the followup, where he acknowledges that the perspective is valid and realized he needed to back down, doesn't fit into that mindset at all. It's genuine reconsideration and game solving.

Darkpit54

 

[Malakandra]

Nevermind, I've been reading it wrong this whole time. It says or not and

 

[fontisian]

Doesn't there have to be both a visitor and a chocolate for there to be a traitor

I don't believe so, no.

 

[fontisian]

I want Trisscar to give me a readslist. I also want to hear thoughts from #HBC | FrozeηFlame .

 

[Chaco]

Well let’s change that. How do you feel about Boom’s points when you look at the below quotes.


It is worth noting that Zen responded pretty fast to boom’s point( but timing doesn’t matter for that), and then tried to get the visitor role to claim.

If we play Devils advocate, scum Zen would be looking to get a valued role putted right away, likely so scum can stop them.

Town Zen really has no reason to not claim chocolate here because it would look good and scum would more then likely be looking elsewhere.

Also worth noting, that post by Boom specifically mentions the Chocolate Role and lynching Zen.

Isn’t it a bit coincidental that Zen has the exact role Boom wanted to have someone claim?

Not to mention Zen waited so long as said to claim and Boom’s post literally says if they wait to near end of day it can’t be trusted. This is also way to much of a coincidence. It feels like Zen was really paying attention to this post when you look at the claim and when he claimed later on.

This is just a little odd the more you think on it. But what are your thoughts?

Of course anyone can also chime in.

I just don’t see the stigma everyone is assigning it. Miller and visitor are such small time roles that there’s no point in trying to out visitor, cause more or less all it is a balancing point for Voyeur. Even more so, standard miller play is insta claim D1.

Ok, so Boom, Chaco, Darkpit said they weren't chocolate and Laser and Trisscar implied they weren't chocolate before Xivii's claim. Keep in mind that a town!chocolate can imply they aren't to see if a scum will take the bait and claim. Let's assume that scum have 1 ninja shots in a scum!Xivii world, because if there are three he'd know there is a town chocolate. Scum!Xivii then would have asked the visitor to claim to ascertain if the setup was 1 chocolate, or 1 visitor and 1 traitor. At the time of the claim, Scum!Xivii wouldn't have known anything about the roles belonging to me, Z, Jack, Frozen, Somi, Mala, NSG. Now, two of those could be scummates. So, in order for Xivii to be scum, he'd have to have claimed while not knowing anything about the roles of at least five people. That's a very poor choice for scum to make, guys.

Yes but if he’s scum and knows he has 3 ninja shots he knots that there’s Chocolate and Visitor with no traitor, if he has two he knows there is a visitor only or all three, but the event of one ninja shot is only indicative of chocolate, none is obvious. Scum can easily rake a fake claim out of that.

And how does baiting the NK as miller make any sense? Miller is more of a role you just ignore and okay anyways. All that gambit for that? I can’t say I’m anywhere near sold on that.

Fonti can be claim confirmed, while Xivii cannot.

 

[fontisian]

I just don’t see the stigma everyone is assigning it. Miller and visitor are such small time roles that there’s no point in trying to out visitor, cause more or less all it is a balancing point for Voyeur. Even more so, standard miller play is insta claim D1.



Yes but if he’s scum and knows he has 3 ninja shots he knots that there’s Chocolate and Visitor with no traitor, if he has two he knows there is a visitor only or all three, but the event of one ninja shot is only indicative of chocolate, none is obvious. Scum can easily rake a fake claim out of that.

And how does baiting the NK as miller make any sense? Miller is more of a role you just ignore and okay anyways. All that gambit for that? I can’t say I’m anywhere near sold on that.

Fonti can be claim confirmed, while Xivii cannot.

Bruh, if he knows there's a chocolate, he can't claim chocolate, because he'll get counter claimed.

 

[Xivii]

And how does baiting the NK as miller make any sense? Miller is more of a role you just ignore and okay anyways. All that gambit for that? I can’t say I’m anywhere near sold on that.

It's a detrimental role that can't be cleared so try to make mafia take it out. I don't see what's hard to understand about that.

 

[Xivii]

BoomFrog why are you ignoring Fonti's argument for why I am town?

--

Z25 is 100% town. 10000% town.

 

[Darkpit54]

Ultimately, I don't think Xivii is scum unless Fonti is too, and there's no traitor and no ninja shots. As I'm currently inclined to trust Fonti, I'll also trust Xivii, as Fonti should be able to be cleared by Tomorrow night

 

[Xivii]

With so many ninja shots and a roleblocker it's pointless spending too much time trying to confirm Fonti. She and the Voy should both target the same person and we'll see what happens from there.

 

[LaserGuy]

Would like to see some votes from non-voters or people on vanity wagons.

I don't really have time to debate the merits of Xivii's claim right now. Happy to discuss on D2. He never should be the play today.

 

[Malakandra]

This sucks. Voting for Xivii is out because he should be somewhat confirmable, atleast a lot more trust worthy, if Fonti is confirmed. It'd be dumb to lynch someone who has a clear method of earning trust day 1. Somi is also out because, well they are out literally. Don't want to accidentally lynch a PR because the replacement isn't here yet. That leaves me with Jack, and Z. Atleast Z might post a readlist soon and is active. I haven't seen hide nor hair of Jack in forever. Boom is eh, I can't get a good read on him but I think it would give us some more info about Xivii and a few others. Trying to look at the situation if I believe Fonti and Xivii, I can see a scum boom. I think Jackrito is more likely to be scum here overall though, would like to hear more from him first.


Jackrito do you have any thoughts on the present situation? We are close to EoD here.

 

[Xivii]

UtopianPoyzin Does the presence of chocolate give the mafia an extra shot of ninja or take one away?

Visitor adds 2
Chocolate adds 1
Traitor subtracts 1

 

[Z25]

Hey Z, you mentioned earlier you had a readslist, but were waiting to see if anyone was going to Counter Claim Xivii before posting it. It doesn't look like anyone is going to, could you post it now?

Sure, Give me a bit, I just have to finish a school assigbment

Right, the only reason I can see for Xivii to hold revealing until he did was trying to bait a scum into claiming chocolate. Its all WIFOM.

but why would scum honesty care? There’s way better places for them to be looking, him putting himself as chocolate narrows their pool for who can be the other prs.

if anything that’s anti town from zen imo.

Ok, so Boom, Chaco, Darkpit said they weren't chocolate and Laser and Trisscar implied they weren't chocolate before Xivii's claim. Keep in mind that a town!chocolate can imply they aren't to see if a scum will take the bait and claim. Let's assume that scum have 1 ninja shots in a scum!Xivii world, because if there are three he'd know there is a town chocolate. Scum!Xivii then would have asked the visitor to claim to ascertain if the setup was 1 chocolate, or 1 visitor and 1 traitor. At the time of the claim, Scum!Xivii wouldn't have known anything about the roles belonging to me, Z, Jack, Frozen, Somi, Mala, NSG. Now, two of those could be scummates. So, in order for Xivii to be scum, he'd have to have claimed while not knowing anything about the roles of at least five people. That's a very poor choice for scum to make, guys.

Counter point:

Scum Zen could know for sure if chocolate is in or not if he is scum.

For example in token power, logic and I were scum and we knew that the tracker role was not in the game.

Scum zen could have a team mate that’s chocolate or the role itself and claimed it, knowing he couldn’t be countered. Therefore he would know he would be fine if that’s the case.

 

[Trisscar]

I absolutely do not want to kill Mala.

Why though, like is this cause replacement or because of other reasons?

Visitor adds 2
Chocolate adds 1
Traitor subtracts 1

....I need to either read this setup a few more times, or talk to UP about presentation and formatting I think. Gah.