Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[Chaco]

he just was making predictions.

No, Xivii, not tellin you.

I'm not posting much becasue I want more time and I don't want to die D1/N1.

Guess what? Whenever I post a ****ton, I die. Every single time. Plus, we just started. I'm waiting till we get more posts to make reads.

The reason isn't because of scum, it's because I'll get lynched.

...I'm also just stressed the hell out rn, so that's partially why I'm inactive.

I haven't been paying attention tbh, allow me to catch up real quick.

Oh, sorry.

Quoting to bring it actively to everyone’s attention. This is it. 8 posts. One game relevant and that was the first post.

 

[Malakandra]

Can someone help me out a bit with understanding the setup? I assume the 0-# means theres a chance of that thing being in the game, but are those things mutually exclusive? Like will scum either have a traitor or ninja uses? Or can they get both.

 

[Xivii]

To conclude/reiterate my thoughts for the day,

Don't Yeet

Darkpit54
Open-minded/agendaless, consistent collaboration with other players.

LaserGuy
I still believe LaserGuy would have folded under my pressure, but he more or less continued to play the game despite it. He solidly refuted my case. His reads have depth and consistency (I'm thinking of his Fonti and Somi reads in particular). I think this post comes from town Laser:

I have you at a scum lean at the moment. I don't know that this post really shifts the mark a lot one way or the other. I actually find your reaction to Xivii kind of strange. I feel like Xivii is essentially doing a woof-gambit and you're the one person who is completely thrown off by it. If you ignore the LAMIST stuff and just focus on what Xivii is actually doing, it seems pretty clear to me that his play is Town motivated. That doesn't mean he's Town, since he still has that BoomFrog medal of honor. But I don't think it's worth obsessing over it at this point in the game.

The evaluation of BoomFrog is insightful in a way that I think comes from a townie mentality.

#HBC | FrozeηFlame
His thoughts are nuanced in a way that appears to be of a genuine solve mentality. His thoughts have also been more or less consistent with mine. I think I also agree with Fonti's point about his Triss read. It has the air of a genuine gut read.

Trisscar
She's been cooperative/helpful with multi-players in a way that strikes me as agendaless. There is some possibility she is scummates with Jack however.

Chaco
Chaco has been tunneled on me in a way that feels honest because his solving has been centered around it. Specifically, he felt that Boom was Chainsaw defending me, he felt that I was traitoring it up, and he anticipates that I will attempt to swing the lynch from Raxxel. Associative thoughts like this I think tend to come from town who is anchored in on a slot and trying to solve the puzzle around it. It's similar to how I was trying to solve the game with scum!Fonti in mind, which was very townie.

NonSpecificGuy
Fonti's town case is convincing. Though NSG had odd reaction times at the beginning of the day that I've found to have come from scum previously.

Fontisian
Her frustration at my push and her attempt to not let it show I think are likely to come from town. Her evaluation of my push also seems quite objective. Her reads are so insightful that I felt that they were coming from an scum!informed point of view, but as I said earlier, I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume in good faith that her analytic abilities are just exceptional.

Somitomi
He's had a guiltless reaction to the pressures he's gotten throughout the game. Specifically, I like his explanation of what I believed to be a contradiction. I've liked almost all of his content and so far his play is standard somi, but a bit more active. I'm very disappointed he's replacing out.

BoomFrog
I don't really follow Boom this game. His tone is townie, but I don't know. The first game I played with him he had me pocketed until the last day I was alive. I've been hypervigilant about town reading him ever since, but idk this new avatar of his is throwing me off. I've come to associate scum!Boom with the Frog avatar and I feel like this friendly Scandinavia guy kind of "reset" that association.

His paranoia of my slot seems overplayed. It's as if that's what he believes I would expect of him. And as I stated in an above post, he had been town reading Laser but attempted to dismantle my town read of Laser. This looks to me like scum slipping their real agenda. His post above stating that my reason for reading Laser as town feels contrived seems contrived.

Yeet

3DSNinja
I doubt Ninja is a PR. He's more likely a traitor or just mafia. He's been a PR twice before and he played to the best of his ability both times. He's probably just scum here.

Jackrito
I initially thought that Jack was just trying to stay under the radar to avoid being night killed, but his reads appear very forced. His Triss read specifically doesn't at all look real to me. He isn't pushing her in good faith. Rather he is making an assumption about how she should play and honing in on that. There is no open-mindedness or attempt to solve and he isn't looking at anyone else really.

Raxxel / Malakandra
I don't think my play at the beginning of the day warranted the strength of Raxxel's town read of me. Mala's read list also seems to be reiterating what others have said in a way that doesn't look like they've processed it as their own. What I mean is, rather than consider the points that have brought up and then incorporating them into his own unique perspective, it's more as if he is just mirroring what others have said verbatim. One read that stood out specifically was his Font/Jack read which mirrored my take on them playing in a coordinated manner. I also don't think his scumread on me is genuine.


---

I'd be surprised if all of the potential power wolfers (Boom, Fonti, Chaco, and Frozen) are town. There's probably one in there, but I don't think any of them are plays today, and maybe not until D3. Neap should absolutely check within this pool, however. I'd like everyone to vote on that.

 

[Chaco]

Can someone help me out a bit with understanding the setup? I assume the 0-# means theres a chance of that thing being in the game, but are those things mutually exclusive? Like will scum either have a traitor or ninja uses? Or can they get both.

I think it’s open ended, like it can have x amount of Ninja uses 0-3 iirc, and the potential of one traitor. Same with town 3 guaranteed the masons and Neo, and then the potential of a visitor or chocolate, with 4 confirmed VT, but max potential of 7.

 

[Trisscar]

.....Goes off to find chocolate
Darn you XD

 

[Chaco]

Chaco
Chaco has been tunneled on me in a way that feels honest because his solving has been centered around it. Specifically, he felt that Boom was Chainsaw defending me, he felt that I was traitoring it up, and he anticipates that I will attempt to swing the lynch from Raxxel. Associative thoughts like this I think tend to come from town who is anchored in on a slot and trying to solve the puzzle around it. It's similar to how I was trying to solve the game with scum!Fonti in mind, which was very townie.

Was Fonti scum there? And also, call me Capt then, cause a lot of my reads are anchored around you. Lol. But like I said, I’ll evaluate your slot as interaction between you and Mala progress, or a Mala lynch.

I'd be surprised if all of the potential power wolfers (Boom, Fonti, Chaco, and Frozen) are town. There's probably one in there, but I don't think any of them are plays today, and maybe not until D3. Neap should absolutely check within this pool, however. I'd like everyone to vote on that.

What do you mean by wolfers?

And vote on Neo target, is that what you’re suggesting? Or just to narrow it to 4 of us, or are you trying to stack Voyeur and Neo to solid confirm town and Neo in one instance, if necessary to claim or negate a false claim D2?

 

[Chaco]

s also known that the number of ninja shots that the Mafia have. If a visitor is present, the Mafia get 2 extra ninja shots. If a Chocolate Townie is present, then the Mafia get 1 extra ninja shot. If a Traitor is present, the Mafia get 1 less ninja shot. The game will never contain a Mafia Traitor without a Chocolate Townie or a Visitor.

Quoting this because I missed this before. Actually may be good to claim Choc and Visitor just to see if how many ninja shots are active, and if we even run the probability of a traitor. That’s broken meta in towns favor hard. Gives us a number of scum, and if we our PRs could even detect if on target.

 

[Chaco]

Xivii ^ Thoughts?

 

[Darkpit54]

---

I'd be surprised if all of the potential power wolfers (Boom, Fonti, Chaco, and Frozen) are town. There's probably one in there, but I don't think any of them are plays today, and maybe not until D3. Neap should absolutely check within this pool, however. I'd like everyone to vote on that

I agree with this, though I think I'd add you to the list. Unsure about voting for the target, as voyeur wouldn't see neap in order to confirm them

Quoting this because I missed this before. Actually may be good to claim Choc and Visitor just to see if how many ninja shots are active, and if we even run the probability of a traitor. That’s broken meta in towns favor hard. Gives us a number of scum, and if we our PRs could even detect if on target.

This means that if there's choc or visitor, they pretty much need to claim now. Thanks for pointing it out lol. Knowing whether there's even the possibility of a traitor could help so
much.

Malakandra what pronouns do you use?

Mala's recent posts kind of have me leaning toward a Jack lynch? I'd like to see more from Jack in general, but Mala's recent posts questioning mechanics scum should know makes me think they're townie or, but they could just be well calculated

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Z25 replaces 3DSNinja , effective immediately.

Searching for a replacement for somitomi .

 

[Z25]

Hello again everyone.

I’ll post again when I catch up but wanted to at least let people in here.

 

[Malakandra]

I also don't think his scumread on me is genuine.

You want to tell me your reasons for this? I'd also prefer you to actually address my points on you then just say you don't think they are genuine. So far in defense you've said that you are incapable of playing how you are as scum, but that has been refuted by multiple people at this point.

I think it’s open ended, like it can have x amount of Ninja uses 0-3 iirc, and the potential of one traitor. Same with town 3 guaranteed the masons and Neo, and then the potential of a visitor or chocolate, with 4 confirmed VT, but max potential of 7.

Quoting this because I missed this before. Actually may be good to claim Choc and Visitor just to see if how many ninja shots are active, and if we even run the probability of a traitor. That’s broken meta in towns favor hard. Gives us a number of scum, and if we our PRs could even detect if on target.

Ah, thanks for clarifying. I was about to say it would be incredibly broken if mafia got max ninja shots and a traitor and we got randomized to just vanilla townies and the confirmed power roles. This makes a lot more sense.

Malakandra Malakandra what pronouns do you use?

He/him. thanks for asking.

 

[Malakandra]

Hey Z! Welcome to the replacement club

 

[Z25]

It’s only page one and zen has taken me for a ride lol.

3DSNinja - town (probability)
Jackrito - scum (number 2 slot)
Trisscar - town (number 3 slot)
Fontisian - town (process of elimination)
#HBC | FrozeηFlame - town (hasn't confirmed which is a town tell)
Chaco - scum (lurking)
Somitomi - town (playing to his meta)
Darkpit54 - scum (frozen)
Raxxel - town (meta)
BoomFrog - (hasn't confirmed which is a scum tell)
Xivii - town (first to post)
LaserGuy - town (isn't online but has confirmed which means eagerly confirmed early)

Why such a different start? You usually come across as quite confident rather then speculative and don’t really draw attention to yourself unless in a debate with someone and bring attention to your content from there.

@Raxxel what's your game plan

NSG what's your mafia experience and if you were scum who would your mates be

Why Would you want Rax to reveal this? Sounds like fishing.

What's your impression of me so far?

Look at all these questions I'm asking.

Sort of touched upon it upon but your not playing as confident and I suppose simple as before where you leave a question or opinion and sit back a bit. However:

Thanks Raxxel. I wasn't anticipating such a well thought out answer. I always town read you early on even when you're scum, so I'm going to need to see your play overtime to make a decent evaluation. I'll mainly be looking for whether or not you consistently participate in the thread, as lurking seems to be your most consistent scum tell. My initial impression, however, is that you are town, but that is because I think LaserGuy is scum and that his read on you is from being scum!informed.


NSG is scum for not responding to IM DIRTY DAN. And a general sense of his response times.

Laser is scum for failing to acknowledge my slot initially, his read on Raxxel, and his push on NSG. To be clear, NSG and LaserGuy are scummates.

This seems unlikely to come from scum Zen.

I also actually sort of agree here even if your other posts were odd. Laser pushing NSG when he is still newish and even alludes to this in his post, is a very odd post. One I don’t think looks good.

But onto the next page.

 

[Z25]

We doing another game where you are just going to throw random stuff together. I did one nothing post I should not be town to you.

This is a great post and is a lot like how I’ve seen Jack act previously as town.

I think you may be scum for this heavy focus on mechs to try and enter in a decent way. In reality though these scum reads for this never come true and you may just be the mech type player. Plans like this though when in the open so much help scum more then town though

I actually disagree with your reasoning here. As I actually use mechanics all the time as town and I’ve seen used by town more then scum. This is what I call an common meta myth as I don’t understand while the mafia community thinks with this logic. A townie who may not be able to contribute to much will always look to the mechanics because it can make them look better and open the game up a lot.

but that’s the whole point of what I’m saying, how did I ever react to it defensively? I made a joke back. My other read on you was nothing indicative of your initial post. That’s where I’m entirely confused as how I came off defensive, and that’s why I think he’s someone to keep an eye on.

and when did I say claim early, I said D2 depending on how N1 plays out only, but no later than D3. Do you see my reasoning why there? Late game cluster **** cause scum will 100% counter claim and make a mess of a late game. That’s 100% why I say this, and I don’t think there’s a valid counter argument to that. Do you see why I say this? Late game counter claims in MYLO is a damned mess, which with this game set up is something you heavily want to avoid. Just trying to negate a huge foreseeable problem. I’ve won games counter claiming a few times, which is why I heavily believe in avoi

Let me look back to what post of his I was referring to.

I like you better after your posting, but I still don’t understand the defenses of you for no forseeable reason.

Really solid points here and the defense that has been put up by Cha and give me a strong town lean so far. The more meta talk here about late game is not something scum will usually get into day one.

That is a wall of text that is not capable of coming from scum this early in the game. Why on earth would scum put so much effort? I will return in a few days or whenever the prod deadline permits.

@ Chaco, I believe my wall should address your inquiry.

I really don’t see why Zen is so focused on claiming these posts come from town without question.

Any good scum( especially zen scum) can make some damn good town posts if they try harder enough. And no one knows better then Zen that early impressions matter most. For someone who usually doesn’t care what people think of their alignment this sticks out as very odd.

 

[Jackrito]

People keep saying and accusing me of doing scum reads that are not real and weak. That is because as said before I am really lacking effort this game, a couple of factors have led to this doing too many games at one time and also working a lot of the time means I don't have the energy or time to do the stuff that I normally do. Also in my most recent mafia exp I was able to just parrot Ranmaru reads which has led to me being a bit lazy even more.


.If I reach Night phase I can do a fullreread, and hopefully Put in a better performance day 2. Day one has nerve being my forte when it comes to mafia anyway unless I know everyone in the game. In the meantime I'm just living at the top of the thread and doing stuff mainly from memory so don't want to commit to a fullread list without doing that. If you choose to kill me before I get that chance then fair enough.

I'm going to see Triss the way I choose to also, if I'm wrong I'm wrong, but dont belittle me using other games. Espically one where I was right on most of the scum team throughout the game. I get caught in a lot of bad tunnels sometimes they pay off, sometimes they don't just let me do my thing for now.

 

[Chaco]

Wait a second, is Xiivi, Zen????
bro for real?
Are you the same Zen from OTL?

 

[Z25]

Wait a second, is Xiivi, Zen????
bro for real?
Are you the same Zen from OTL?

I believe he is the same, but yeah he goes by Zen too.

 

[Chaco]

I believe he is the same, but yeah he goes by Zen too.

Pissed he acted like I didn’t know who he was.

 

[Z25]

Pissed he acted like I didn’t know who he was.

Well he could be different, I know he’s played on a lot of forums so he might not remember always.

 

[Z25]

Ah, that makes sense. I'm trying to better understand everything, especially the current meta, and I feel like asking questions is the easiest way lol.



Could this be a traitor? Constantly telling us he's town, while still a little sus so probably wouldn't get night killed?

I'd have to look back at his previous posts to see who he'd be protecting, and I'll admit that I don't really know how traitors usually play, but I think this could be a possibility. There's also the point that was made of him listing four possible scum, but I don't know that that really holds any weight.

thus is a theory I could see. Zen is creating paranoia, which makes sense as traitor.

Maybe more like this:

Soul Town
Somitomi
Jackrito
Trisscar

Sith Lord Master Mind That Has Us All Fooled
Darkpit54

Probably Town
Boom
LaserGuy
NonSpecificGuy

Contains 3-4 Scum
Fontisian
Chaco
3DSNinja
FrozeηFlame
Raxxel

Fonti's questioning of Jack earlier seemed scummatey. So Fonti scum could cause me to reevaluate there.

what is even this tiering?
This is redirect some type of ploy but I don’t know if scum zen would make it obvious like this. However the first quote here seems plausible

My current list looks something like:
Town Read:
Jackrito: I honestly just really like what he's given so far; most scum wouldn't object to being called Definitely Town with little given reasoning, and the discussion has seemed helpful and genuine
Not Much Info Yet, But What We've Gotten Has Been Good:
FrozenFlame: We obviously haven't gotten a lot, but what have gotten seems very well thought out and genuinely town-motivated.
Somitomi: Basically the same as Frozen, somewhat more content, but a bit weaker and less recent
Feels Town? No Strong Reason:
NSG: Honestly almost no info, but I genuinely think this is just a new town? Waiting to see more though fs
Trisscar: Xivii and @BoomFrog I'm curious as to why you have him as definite town. He certainly isn't triggering any alarms, but I don't think I've seen anything to make me certain about his alignment. Maybe I'm just too suspicious of everyone initially though lol, so please let me know if you have reasoning that I've missed.
Seems Townie, Could Be Strong Mafia:
I think that this grouping has at least one scum, if not more, but I'm struggling to narrow down the specifics. Evidently most of these have shown the ability to play scum very well before and as such could easily do so again. It seems like the ones that are town would be strong assets, but it's difficult to decipher which voices to listen to. After some death, scum or otherwise, I think this may become easier (hopefully lol)
BoomFrog: This player is the main reason for the name of this category, truth be told (in addition to Xivii). I think that most of the information given has been very helpful and townie, but some of their interactions have seemed a little off. Ultimately I want to trust this but am hesitant to because I think this being scum would be very dangerous for us
Chaco: The aggressiveness was somewhat difficult to read at first, but it now seems mostly town. Has distanced from multiple possible scummates, such as Boom and Xivii, but I'm honestly not quite sure what to make of that.
Xivii: Similar to how I feel about Boom, minus points for the many "I'm town" posts. Recent posts have seemed good but still difficult get a confident read on him.
Fontisian: I think the early post about mechanics would have helped mafia much more than town, but still could have been coming from a town perspective. Recent posts have seemed more townie but still haven't provided a ton of information. Unsure.
LaserGuy: The early push on NSG seemed strange and Xivii's push of Laser made sense, but his explanation helped, as have his posts since. Ultimately still unsure.
They've Given Us Little To Nothing:
3dsNinja: I genuinely think this is town, but due to how unhelpful he's been, I couldn't not put him here. Sorry bro. I understand not wanting to die, but I don't think this is helping your case.
Raxxel: It's hard to be sure about a slot that's contributed nothing but defense of another slot, then disappearing. I'm hesitant to say that this is definitely scum as we've seen next to nothing, but obviously I can't townread this.

I hope this made sense, and if not feel free to ask me and I can clarify anything lol. This should definitely be taken with a grain of salt, as I'm not sure how reliable my reading ability is, but if nothing else this should lay out my thoughts on each player, if you disagree with anything please let me know why and persuade me otherwise lol.

I hope that made sense and didn't seem too ramble-y. I'll probably regret the lack of concision after some sleep lmao

This reads list feels pretty accurate to someone with moderate experience, which makes this feel pretty town oriented. Specifically not fully knowing and just like a persons posts at face value is something Most townies will consider good as scum can’t really get away with that tactic.

 

[Xivii]

I'm chocolate.

 

[Z25]

NSG is either townie, or being coached by a more experienced scum mate to play his newness. A lot of the stuff he says definitely screams newbie, but I feel like that I shouldn’t claim my role to prove my spot post was scummy and WIFOMy. It just didn’t sit right with me.

Anyone else have similar sentiments there?

I’m thinking his newbie town, his play in other games and behavior is very similar and It was pretty genuine then too.

side notes:
Somi making a few posts seems like a attempt at content on page 7 but I’m not sure if I find it town oriented.

Fonti made some good points here on his push on jack makes use of good meta and precious games that I don’t think scum searches for this early.

 

[Z25]

I'm chocolate.

I’m on page 8, is this the first you’ve said it and any one be counter claiming if it’s not?

 

[Chaco]

I'm chocolate.

Why do I feel skeptical of this?

 

[Z25]

No.

Sure. My initial impression is that they're not someone I would towncore, but am not particularly interested in yeeting either. I liked their read of me, iirc it was about me holding back, and while it's not accurate it something I've seen town talk about when they play with me more than scum.

Looking back at his readlist in 261, it's like a 7/10. I like the read on Laser, specifically the "slot feels like it's kind of been on the defensive for awhile but then never pivoted into trying to be affirmatively town if that makes sense?" Laser is someone I expected to mindmeld with a lot this game, or at least someone who would give logic I could build off of, and it just hasn't happened. Frozen seems to have similar feelings there. I don't really get the reads on you and Trisscar, but that's ok. I kind of like how he described the Trisscar read, precisely because it's so unconvincing, feels more like a real read than something Frozen would have made up about a town or a scummate. The reads on Darkpit, Chaco and Xivii are good, that's tempered by how they were already pretty consensusy at the point the readlist was posted. The "has this slot done anything" for Raxxel and NSG are kind of lazy, but helped by the more in-depth take on NSG in his post just before that.

Yeah, Frozen's stuff is all just kind of fine. I guess I'm coming out of this feeling slightly town on him, if only because his reads are reasonably close to mine. The biggest marks against him would be the lack of immersion in the thread, if that makes sense, and the Somi scumread being kind of weak, but it's Day 1, so that's no unusual. Mmm, no the bigger problem is that I'm not sure he buys the read, it has a lot less thought put into it compared to the town reads. That's could be more of a playstyle thing though, if he's the kind of player who prefers to build a towncore over aggresively scum hunting.

tl:dr light townread

I'm not sure what I want to commit on yet, readswise, and I find that when over-commit too early the accuracy of my reads suffers as a result, and I have trouble with confirmation bias. I'm taking it more slowly than usual here, both because I don't meta to fall back on for most of the people in the game and because I'm just not really in the zone. I do intend to sum where I'm at in the game before eod, but I'm not there yet. I am happy to discuss individual reads and try to work things out before then, just not the game as a whole.

Why hide your reads?
You went on quite a bit about Frozen for not wanting to get into them. So why hide the rest of your reads?

It comes off as you trying to buy time to formulate better and more townie sounded thoughts or that you don’t have any actually content for them despite talking them up.

 

[Z25]

Jackrito I have found that I tend not to be in a reading mindset when a game is actively a drain on my mental stamina. I should also mention that right before this game's start, I participated in a Discord quick-game where I managed to spot a scum member within about... 20 posts or so. It was a rather large boost to my confidence I must admit. XD

Of the players here, I am so far:
-Reluctant to read people who are experiencing IRL drains on their time, which includes NSG, Raxxel and I believe one other person? Malak just arrived anyway so that slot is still hovering quite high.

-3DSNinja has asked for time to read through and give thoughts, I'm inclined to wait a bit longer on them.

-Frozen (btw mate your name is bloody hard to use the @ function with XD ) Has so far done well in the informative sense with their posts, despite there being few of them.

-Chaco started off rough tonally, but has cleared up since and is generally being helpful.

-Somitomi is barely here, and I may have missed any explanation as to why.

-Darkpit54 is paying attention and asking relevant questions, and pointing out relevant and useful things.

-Boomfrog is posting less than I would expect perhaps, but I've only played with them once so....eh? Not standing out too heavily either way.

-Still think Xivii has a plan. Still not sure of the end goal of that plan. The plan is being very confusing that way.

-Laserguy is close to Boom, though slightly more town for reasons I am trying to parse.

That leaves you Jack, and Fonti.
Fonti needs to do more than sit there saying they will participate eventually, while still posting regularly.
You, meanwhile, should presumably remember my response to the first time I encountered the sheer level of "previous game you did *this*" that the community seems to rely on (at least I think you were there for that). Player metas are useful tools, but they should not be overly relied on outside of a bubble.

This comes off pretty natural and I don’t see scummy caring that much about IRL stuff or people looking to wait before being active. As it’s an easy way to set up lynches for future phases and most scum will try to do this at least one time.

 

[Xivii]

Was Fonti scum there?

I mean in this game. A couple of nights ago I made a case for why she was scum and did an analysis of potential scummates based on that flip.

What do you mean by wolfers?

I use wolf and mafia interchangeably. A power wolfer just means a strong scum player.

And vote on Neo target, is that what you’re suggesting?

I don't want to vote for someone specifically, I just want agreement from everyone that neap should target someone within that pool. I do agree though it probably would be a good idea for Voy to do so too.

Xivii Xivii ^ Thoughts?

I missed this entirely. So based on whether or not there is a visitor claim, we may be able to determine the number of nin shots and whether there is a traitor. Visitor should 100% claim.

but Mala's recent posts questioning mechanics scum should know makes me think they're townie or, but they could just be well calculated

I think it should be taken as null, and that his statement about it being difficult for scum to coordinate is fakeable.

Hello again everyone.

I’ll post again when I catch up but wanted to at least let people in here.

Z it's good to see you <3. It's bad luck that you've probably replaced into a scum slot though.

You want to tell me your reasons for this? I'd also prefer you to actually address my points on you then just say you don't think they are genuine. So far in defense you've said that you are incapable of playing how you are as scum, but that has been refuted by multiple people at this point.

You state that I'm playing differently from my scum game but think I'm scum. I don't think that's a conclusion that could be made in good faith. Do you not think it's reasonable for town to hop around day 1?

Why Would you want Rax to reveal this? Sounds like fishing.

How so?

Why such a different start? You usually come across as quite confident rather then speculative

I don't see how my opening post is any different.

This seems unlikely to come from scum Zen.

Why so?

This is a great post and is a lot like how I’ve seen Jack act previously as town.

How so?

I'm going to see Triss the way I choose to also, if I'm wrong I'm wrong, but dont belittle me using other games. Especially one where I was right on most of the scum team throughout the game. I get caught in a lot of bad tunnels sometimes they pay off, sometimes they don't just let me do my thing for now.

I'm not belittling you. I'm pointing out the fault in using vague meta reads in general when you have evidence that such reasoning is unreliable. Both me and Laser pointed out that Logic's scum game in Token mafia was different than his play in Sumting, but you ignored that in favor of your own perception of how Logic plays. You are doing the same here when multiple people have stated that Triss's play is the same as in Sumting. This perhaps wouldn't be so bad if it were just supplementary and you had non-meta reasons to justify your read. Additionally, you aren't actively game-solving and are just tunneling a single slot, which makes it look as if you're just going for the easiest attack you can make.

Pissed he acted like I didn’t know who he was.

What do you mean? That wasn't my intention at all.

 

[Z25]

I mean in this game. A couple of nights ago I made a case for why she was scum and did an analysis of potential scummates based on that flip.
I use wolf and mafia interchangeably. A power wolfer just means a strong scum player.
I don't want to vote for someone specifically, I just want agreement from everyone that neap should target someone within that pool. I do agree though it probably would be a good idea for Voy to do so too.
I missed this entirely. So based on whether or not there is a visitor claim, we may be able to determine the number of nin shots and whether there is a traitor. Visitor should 100% claim.
I think it should be taken as null, and that his statement about it being difficult for scum to coordinate is fakeable.
Z it's good to see you <3. It's bad luck that you've probably replaced into a scum slot though.
You state that I'm playing differently from my scum game but think I'm scum. I don't think that's a conclusion that could be made in good faith. Do you not think it's reasonable for town to hop around day 1?
How so?
I don't see how my opening post is any different.
Why so?
How so?
I'm not belittling you. I'm pointing out the fault in using vague meta reads in general when you have evidence that such reasoning is unreliable. Both me and Laser pointed out that Logic's scum game in Token mafia was different than his play in Sumting, but you ignored that in favor of your own perception of how Logic plays. You are doing the same here when multiple people have stated that Triss's play is the same as in Sumting. This perhaps wouldn't be so bad if it were just supplementary and you had non-meta reasons to justify your read. Additionally, you aren't actively game-solving and are just tunneling a single slot, which makes it look as if you're just going for the easiest attack you can make.
What do you mean? That wasn't my intention at all.

Bold of you to assume ninja is scum when he is a slot who unfortunately is very newbie and doesn’t defend themselves regardless of alignment.

Anyway you don’t start with reads and you have more confidence in games outside of this be, relentless stating your points as fact.

Scum Zen doesn’t push the very obvious newbie NSG when he knows NSG is new.

Jack’s tone and behavior line up almost exactly with his previous ones.

And wanting Rax, someone who is likely not on the same team as you( but you could both be town), you shouldn’t be trying to figure out how they are going to play. It sounds like your trying to plan around whatever they may be trying to do.

 

[Z25]

Anyway I’ve caught up. I have a reads list but I want to see if anyone counters Zen’a claim.

 

[Malakandra]

You state that I'm playing differently from my scum game but think I'm scum. I don't think that's a conclusion that could be made in good faith. Do you not think it's reasonable for town to hop around day 1?

Again with the assertion that you can't play to different styles as scum. I think your far more likely to adopt a totally different style of play as scum after a perfect scum game to throw people off. I don't think you honestly think you aren't good enough to pull a play style switch off, if I'm overestimating you I'm sorry, but as I see it now you are lying about your own skill to try to throw people off.

Sure, I think a decent amount of hopping around is totally reasonable for town day 1, I also think its totally reasonable for scum day 1. What I don't think is reasonable is for you to go from this #114 laser guy case, where you present things as facts from your eyes and go through a whole logical process, to then just clearing the guy because he didn't give up under your case. That progression doesn't feel natural to me at all.

 

[Xivii]

Anyway you don’t start with reads and you have more confidence in games outside of this be, relentless stating your points as fact.

It just depends on what I'm going for.

Scum Zen doesn’t push the very obvious newbie NSG when he knows NSG is new.

Why so?

Jack’s tone and behavior line up almost exactly with his previous ones.

How is it different from Oasis?

@ Mala my push on Laser was mainly to just get things going.

 

[Chaco]

I mean I kinda wanna think there’s no way ever he would take the risk to claim chocolate D1 and run the potential of a CC, even with an odd of it not being in the game. Ballsy as hell if so.

 

[Malakandra]

I mean, my theory is after the stuff you posted, scum could check what they have, and make a pretty good guess about the presence of chocolate in the game. For instance if they have 0 Ninja used then they know theres not a chocolate that can CC right?

 

[Malakandra]

I just don't believe that Xivii. The way you presented it looked and felt concrete, probably because of how much you tried to show you going through a logical process with facts and the like.

 

[Malakandra]

I'll give you that you have a very good way of presenting your arguments there. Which is partially why I'm very skeptical you'd go through all that work just to change it for basically nothing. And even more skeptical it was all to get the ball rolling.

 

[Xivii]

I just don't believe that Xivii. The way you presented it looked and felt concrete, probably because of how much you tried to show you going through a logical process with facts and the like.

Yeah but I make every push with the same Gusto. Check Token Mafia for reference. I pushed ExLight with similar strength despite townreading him during the process. I suddenly drop it in the same way I dropped the Laser push here.

 

[Chaco]

I mean, my theory is after the stuff you posted, scum could check what they have, and make a pretty good guess about the presence of chocolate in the game. For instance if they have 0 Ninja used then they know theres not a chocolate that can CC right?

This is actually a very solid point, it could be created as a safe claim at that point. Good catch.

 

[Chaco]

Xivii did you crumb Chocolate anywhere in thread?

 

[Malakandra]

Xivii is this the post you were talking about for pushing there?