Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[fontisian]

Why do you have Triss as town core? I'm really not feeling her as town, I was last game but they feel so different to me here, which is why my vote is still there even though it was RVS.

Like, man, I want to townread you for this, because I was feeling the same way about Trisscar, but then you threw in the bit about your vote still being there from RVS, and I'm like "ew, what is this self-aware garbage, why is in this post?"

It's 6am and I haven't slept, so I guess I'll waffle for breakfast.

 

[somitomi]

What answer do you hope to gain from this?

It was a rhetorical question.

I actually think is a bit overharsh of a take, I think its very strongly arguable that boomfrog having put in the effort to go back and "show his work" so to speak allowed us to glean some serious insight into the slot. And frankly as tedious of a question it is for Xivii to asked, I'm inclined to give him some credit for asking it, because I assume he was actually interested to find out if it was a bull**** excuse on frogs part

Maybe I see this differently because I also had trouble reading the incriminated posts, so the "BoomFrog making bullcrap excuses" was not within the range of possibilities from my POV.

It's subtle, but I think it's a reliable scumtell. Basically in the first quote some was arguing against your point, but in the second quote he agreed with it. This lack of consistency is an indicator of opportunism.

There's no inconsistency. I said that I don't really care about the setup while trying to read people on D1, because I'm not trying to make a complete theory for the game. That doesn't mean I'm not going to even consider setup information at all. Darkpit's traitor-theory looks like a good explanation for your odd, self-referential LAMIST posts that didn't seem to fit either mafia or town.

Well, this is an open/semi-open setup so I think being cognizant of the mechanics makes a lot more sense here than in a closed setup. Do you actually have any of these early reads? Most of your posts so far seem to be heavily information-over-analysis which is not a great look for you at the moment.

Not really, no. I'm in the usual late D1 haze, everything's a big jumble, I can't remember who said what or when and I don't really have a solid impression of anyone. Usually this is the time I sit down to reread the thread so far, but every time I swear "never again" afterwards, because it takes a lot of time and the results always feel lacking. I have to ask Madge about her flash reads sometime...

 

[Chaco]

I sympathize with reading back, I started last night and came across that snippet from Raxx and those posts I mentioned, only to have forgotten that they said they weren’t with it much rn.

nevertheless, before they claimed inactivity is when it was scummy to me.

 

[Chaco]

The obvious comparison is to Xivii, who both has a better understanding of my scumgame and is going pretty crazy with paranoia. You can see that he's thinking about the possibilities outside the thread and is reacting as he comes up with new ideas to explain what I'm doing. He's also very paranoid about being manipulated (which is fair, if irritating).

Tl:dr Xivii's reaction was very towny, Laser's was objectively more correct, but also too easy of a read to make.

To the last part, yes it is too easy of a read to make, however the way you played that essentially begged the question, do you feel me?

 

[fontisian]

To the last part, yes it is too easy of a read to make, however the way you played that essentially begged the question, do you feel me?

No, I don't get what you're saying, sorry.

 

[Chaco]

No, I don't get what you're saying, sorry.

It’s the natural way to view your posts about Jack and then the change afterwards, so it essentially coined the read Laser put forward in and of itself.

 

[fontisian]

Basically, you agree with Laser and therefore think it could have been a normal thought process?

 

[Chaco]

Basically, you agree with Laser and therefore think it could have been a normal thought process?

I think that’s he’s right in the sense of the outer layer that the likelihood of you doing that as scum is unlikely at best. Going through and making a case just to abort it right afterward knowing how that looks gives you the blanket of “there’s surely no way scum would do that”. However, I still am not entirely sure what to make of it myself. I’m just saying where you say that it’s the easy read, Im agreeing with you and saying that’s easy to deduce in the way they did.

You are quite hard to read, so I try and look for certain things to score town/scum, and with you it’s hard to really fit either of those categories without having a meta basis. So my gameplay and pressure will be what I view as tells or slips in an effort to understand why or how such things were presented.

As I’ve said before, most reads here are meta based, when the only one I can meta is FF, and he’s like a dang robot.

 

[Raxxel]

Sorry to hear that. If the game is too overwhelming please prioritize your mental health. Don't feel guilty about replacing if you need to.

I think I might need to do that actually. Aside from not having the necessary medicime to focus on something like this, certain events that have played out this week pertaining to another community I'm very invested in have destroyed my motivation.

UtopianPoyzin If you could, I'd like to replace out. I'm very sorry, I imagined myself very excited to be doing mafia again after a break but now is not the time for me.

 

[fontisian]

I hope you feel better, Raxxel.

Chaco If you want my meta, let me know. I'm not sure how helpful it would actually be, here, heh. You can also always ask if you have a question about my process, and I'll do my best to lay it out for you.

 

[LaserGuy]

Conclusion: scum!Fonti = scum!Somi and vice versa. No other associations are conclusive.

If you think Fonti is traitor and somitomi is mafia, wouldn't it make more sense to go for somitomi?

LaserGuy Why has your somi read changed?

I think the lack of any strong reads is not particularly scum indicative for somitomi, (though I'm a little surprised he doesn't seem to have any at all). What I do feel is scum indicative for him is that he doesn't seem particularly concerned or frustrated about this. I think he's coasting on purpose.

Worth noting I dislike this because it's too correct, if that make sense. Like, yeah, I probably wouldn't have done that as scum (except maybe as a traitor to distract from a scummate, good guess Xivii), but does Laser know me well enough to get that off the bat? Probably not.

I don't think this is really a read that is specific to you. This process of very conspicuously backing down just doesn't seem like something that I would expect scum to do because they would be aware of how awkward it looks. I feel Town is more likely to think "yeah, this is going to look bad but IDGAF".

I think I might need to do that actually. Aside from not having the necessary medicime to focus on something like this, certain events that have played out this week pertaining to another community I'm very invested in have destroyed my motivation.

Sorry to hear that. Best wishes.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Seeking replacement for Raxxel. (Will be operating on a first-come first-serve basis.)

 

[Darkpit54]

I hope everything works out, Raxx

btw for those of you that think I'm traitor, if I'm on a scum lynch today that should disprove your theory. Traitor should never lynch mafia. This isn't wifom anymore than a banana is a fruit. I think 3DS is probably traitor.

I highly disagree with this, as traitor or any scum could easily lynch another to gain credibility, especially because you're showing how painfully aware you are of this fact. But I digress. Your point about 3ds seems highly plausible.

Mafia can recruit traitor by targeting them right? That means if there's a no kill in this game then it's likely they hit traitor?

I don't like this post. As town, why wouldn't you save this theory until after this occurs? Whereas scum or traitor has much more incentive to get this information to the other side of this combo, and to clarify for themselves.

Conclusion: scum!Fonti = scum!Somi and vice versa. No other associations are conclusive.

Could you elaborate on this? I don't disagree that both could be scum, but I don't really understand the connection.

I think overall Xivii's recent posts about Somi and Fonti help his read, but the posts about traitors makes me nervous lol

 

[Darkpit54]

I think I like Chaco and Boom rn.

I don't think making an argument for Xivii being town would beneficial at this point in time (mainly because if he is scum, I don't want him to have insight into how I'm reading him just yet), but I do have one if anyone feels like it would help them solve later.

Do we want to ask for this before the end of d1? I think above potentially helping us read Xivii, it could help better understand Fonti, as we seem to be leaning toward her. Let me know what you guys think though please lol

 

[Chaco]

I think I like Chaco and Boom rn.



Do we want to ask for this before the end of d1? I think above potentially helping us read Xivii, it could help better understand Fonti, as we seem to be leaning toward her. Let me know what you guys think though please lol

We’re homies, cause you pick up exactly what I felt about Xivii’s posts about traitor also. Unless you’re playing me so hard and I will be mad if so.

Like I said prior though, my only qualm with not actively seeking a Xivii Lynch is due to the activity level, and easier late game discernment due to so many interactions with most slots.

Raxxel Hope everything gets better for you. It’s easy to get burnt out in life. Take care!

Unvote

Until we can get a replacement in action.

 

[Trisscar]

Fonti has a few times now mentioned that they have reads but don't want to voice them unless asked directly.

Therefore, fontisian , I am hereby requesting *ALL* of your reads thus far, previous stated or no.

 

[fontisian]

Fonti has a few times now mentioned that they have reads but don't want to voice them unless asked directly.

Therefore, fontisian , I am hereby requesting *ALL* of your reads thus far, previous stated or no.

No.

 

[BoomFrog]

That seems wise. I'll second that.

 

[BoomFrog]

Hmm. Alright, how about a read on frozen flame?

 

[Darkpit54]

No.

Could you explain why not?

 

[fontisian]

Hmm. Alright, how about a read on frozen flame?

Sure. My initial impression is that they're not someone I would towncore, but am not particularly interested in yeeting either. I liked their read of me, iirc it was about me holding back, and while it's not accurate it something I've seen town talk about when they play with me more than scum.

Looking back at his readlist in 261, it's like a 7/10. I like the read on Laser, specifically the "slot feels like it's kind of been on the defensive for awhile but then never pivoted into trying to be affirmatively town if that makes sense?" Laser is someone I expected to mindmeld with a lot this game, or at least someone who would give logic I could build off of, and it just hasn't happened. Frozen seems to have similar feelings there. I don't really get the reads on you and Trisscar, but that's ok. I kind of like how he described the Trisscar read, precisely because it's so unconvincing, feels more like a real read than something Frozen would have made up about a town or a scummate. The reads on Darkpit, Chaco and Xivii are good, that's tempered by how they were already pretty consensusy at the point the readlist was posted. The "has this slot done anything" for Raxxel and NSG are kind of lazy, but helped by the more in-depth take on NSG in his post just before that.

Yeah, Frozen's stuff is all just kind of fine. I guess I'm coming out of this feeling slightly town on him, if only because his reads are reasonably close to mine. The biggest marks against him would be the lack of immersion in the thread, if that makes sense, and the Somi scumread being kind of weak, but it's Day 1, so that's no unusual. Mmm, no the bigger problem is that I'm not sure he buys the read, it has a lot less thought put into it compared to the town reads. That's could be more of a playstyle thing though, if he's the kind of player who prefers to build a towncore over aggresively scum hunting.

tl:dr light townread

 

[fontisian]

Could you explain why not?

I'm not sure what I want to commit on yet, readswise, and I find that when over-commit too early the accuracy of my reads suffers as a result, and I have trouble with confirmation bias. I'm taking it more slowly than usual here, both because I don't meta to fall back on for most of the people in the game and because I'm just not really in the zone. I do intend to sum where I'm at in the game before eod, but I'm not there yet. I am happy to discuss individual reads and try to work things out before then, just not the game as a whole.

 

[fontisian]

I think the lack of any strong reads is not particularly scum indicative for somitomi, (though I'm a little surprised he doesn't seem to have any at all). What I do feel is scum indicative for him is that he doesn't seem particularly concerned or frustrated about this. I think he's coasting on purpose.

We're there any specific posts that changed your read?

 

[fontisian]

Man, I wish I could edit phone-posting typos.

 

[Chaco]

Man, I wish I could edit phone-posting typos.

This is my life.

I’m gonna reread the game this evening and hit some stuff.

 

[Chaco]

I’ve reread halfway through the game thus far, and looking back now, I can see where I was reaching a bit to hard on BoomFrog. I actually like their responses more after seeing progression and looking back out that whole layout. See I was reaching because I kept feeling something off about it, but I think I was misinterpreting who that was off in regards to Xivii. Looking back, I really think it was Raxxel. However, since he is seeking replacement, I want to instead switch to what flipped that switch anyways. That is Xivii. Post #94 is literally the only post that rings sincere to me, after that it’s all WIFOM, AtE, etc. What really threw me for a loop though was that Xivii said Raxx’s scum meta is lurking, I’ve gotta take that with a grain of salt, but early D1 they bounced back and forth, and then Raxx was gone. I felt a similar bad vibe when Raxx came back in thread and addressed a way earlier question in regards to Xiivi, like you haven’t been active at all....and out of allllll of this, you basically mirror a response. It’s almost like he was told to do so from outside source. Maybe it’s just because I addressed him about it, but I will quite the posts afterward where they are near identical.

So this leaves a strong tie for me between Xiivi and Raxx’s slots. I kept looking for it in BoomFrog, but I think FrozenFlame nailed it right, and that it was Raxx who came uncharacteristically to the defense of Xivii.

This is the dilemma it leaves me: Raxx is replacing out and we have roughly 48 hours left, who knows whether we will get a replacement in game in time and caught up to discern anything. Xivii is the most active poster in game besides myself. And we have multiple slots with combined posts that are less than like the average players. Way less.

NonSpecificGuy Need some updated reads and thoughts.

3DSNinja How’s catching up going? Any reads to share?

LaserGuy What do you make of our Lynch pool with the level of inactivity in the game based on your reads?

fontisian What do you make of Xivii’s posts about traitor?

Trisscar How do you believe we should proceed with the information that we have and the time limit remaining? Raxx’s spit? Anyone inactive that you would like to see more of specifically?

Jackrito Do you have any solid reads to share?

#HBC | FrozeηFlame Who is the play out of players that have been active?

 

[Chaco]

somitomi What do you feel about the base of players that are inactive? Any reads to attribute to them?

Xivii What do you think of Raxx’s slot and the content they did bring forward?

BoomFrog What do you think about Xivii/Raxx connection?

Darkpit54 Same question to you as BoomFrog.

 

[BoomFrog]

fontisian Why did you not care about sorting FrozenFlame before I asked you to do a read?

 

[BoomFrog]

BoomFrog What do you think about Xivii/Raxx connection?

What stuck out to me if that even with all the analysis and focus on Xivii I still don't know what Raxx thought of Xivii's alignment. Probably town lean, but it was never stated. That's why I said Raxx wasn't trying to sort anyone.

So basically yeah. I agree he's a potential yeet, but I'd rather wait until D2 and let his replacement speak up

 

[BoomFrog]

LaserGuy what's your opinion of frozen flame?

 

[fontisian]

fontisian Why did you not care about sorting FrozenFlame before I asked you to do a read?

Oh, I didn't? I wasn't aware.

Chaco I don't really have any thoughts on Xivii's traitor stuff. Is there something specific there you wanted me to talk about (him calling me a traitor, or him trying to assure everyone he isn't the traitor, something else maybe)?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Thanks for the detailed post.

Vote FrozenFlame

lmao so the takeaway is that I should be less detailed and lazier going forward right?

btw for those of you that think I'm traitor, if I'm on a scum lynch today that should disprove your theory. Traitor should never lynch mafia. This isn't wifom anymore than a banana is a fruit. I think 3DS is probably traitor.

tend to agree with xiivi here over the people saying that "nuh uh traitor should obviously bus for cred!" like no, the traitor is an objectively worse scum slot all around, you'd have to be like actively sabotaging your team as a non-traitor scum to make that tradeoff worth. the key is the fact that typically traitor does not count toward scum wincon for purposes of endgame calculations and gets endgamed himself if all other scum die, atleast these are the rules for traitor as applied in the "normal" game rulesets on mafiascum. based on utopian confirming traitor dies upon scum NK, this I think is a strong confirmation that we're living in "normal" mafiascum archetype land and not some crazy swingy traitor variant, which it would be if it counted toward scum wincon and didn't get endgamed if all other scum die, etc.

basically, all of this is meant to illustrate the great weight of trading a traitor slot benefiting from a bus of a normal scum slot, and sure you can concoct some crazy fringe scenario where like the traitor is somehow leading the town and needs just a extra bit of cred to get a quicklynch in lylo or something like that but generally speaking its a self destructive move for a traitor to full bus a scum partner just on the math of the trade

The progression is too off: "looking into" jack, suddenly strongly town reading him, suddenly scum reading him, suddenly not, voting laser.

Vote: Fonti

do you think fonti's comment of saying "I talked myself out of the read as I wrote the post" was genuine? Im wondering if this is a throwaway line intended to mask a "buyers remorse" situation where scum!fonti thought a push in jack direction was prudent for whatever reason and then just regretted it and wanted to keep more pressure in lasers direction to keep that pick a frontrunner as deadline looms?

Fonti and Jack's push on both Laser and Triss look coordinated. Jack has been saying Triss is off when her play has been the same as Sumthing. And Fonti said her posting is more truncated than usual when that's simply a defining feature of Triss' speech in general.

I don't have any meta on these slots, do you have any meta-based reason to believe that attacking perceived deviations from baseline playstyle is a preferred strategy of scum!Jack for an easy avenue of attack?

Fonti has a few times now mentioned that they have reads but don't want to voice them unless asked directly.

Therefore, fontisian , I am hereby requesting *ALL* of your reads thus far, previous stated or no.

No.

4. Fontisian - probably having the hardest time reading this slot, I feel like font isn't sharing everything he's really thinking but I can't quite figure out of thats out of fear or meant as a wait and see strategy

https://imgflip.com/i/473crx

I liked their read of me, iirc it was about me holding back, and while it's not accurate...

The "has this slot done anything" for Raxxel and NSG are kind of lazy, but helped by the more in-depth take on NSG in his post just before that.

damn thats some audacity, "kind of lazy" is a bit ironic coming from the slot openly refusing to share or explain reads lol

by all means, please show me what a proper effort read on raxx and nsg looks like because I literally dont think I have anything meaningful to work with on either slot. plus it'd be a fun way for us to get atleast two more reads out of you!

#HBC | FrozeηFlame Who is the play out of players that have been active?

does somi count as active? because if she does she's in the mix with fonti and jack. im still kind of figuring out how I feel about fontis post on me, like I get a grimy feeling when someone says "yo bro I have the same reads as you trust me bro" but like never explains why the agree with you. comes off as mollification in a way, but I may be overfocusing on just that aspect of his justification for light town reading me

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

UtopianPoyzin what is this game's policy re: deadline extensions as it applies to late in day phase replacements?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

UtopianPoyzin what is this game's policy re: deadline extensions as it applies to late in day phase replacements?

The optional day extension is still in effect to add 24 hours to the Day phase. I have found a replacement, so the current deadlines are still correct.

 

[Trisscar]

fontisian I'm going to insist that you post reads at least 24 hours before deadline, so that others have time to process them, or my first vote is going to be you.

UtopianPoyzin I'd like to request a votecount at your earliest convenience?

 

[Trisscar]

Trisscar How do you believe we should proceed with the information that we have and the time limit remaining? Raxx’s spit? Anyone inactive that you would like to see more of specifically?

What on earth do you mean by "spit".
Everyone needs to have a readslist by 24 hours before deadline, or they are susp. Delaying till the end just makes it harder for people to think through your logic and causes panic votes, this is not helpful for town.
I suspect that I'm always going to want more thoughtful content from inactive players, and am saddened when life interferes. In this case though, it would be Raxxel's replacement, Somi, NSG, and 3DS.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Vote Count 1.04

[3] LaserGuy: NonSpecificGuy, Jackrito, Fontisian
[1] Somitomi: #HBC | FrozenFlame
[1] BoomFrog: Raxxel
[1] Fontisian: Xivii
[1] #HBC | FrozenFlame: BoomFrog

Not voting: 3DSNinja, Trisscar, Darkpit54, Somitomi, LaserGuy, Chaco

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to hammer.

Day 1 ends on July 4th at 8 PM EST.

Malakandra replaces Raxxel , effective immediately.​

 

[Trisscar]

Ello Malak, how've you been?

 

[Chaco]

What on earth do you mean by "spit".
Everyone needs to have a readslist by 24 hours before deadline, or they are susp. Delaying till the end just makes it harder for people to think through your logic and causes panic votes, this is not helpful for town.
I suspect that I'm always going to want more thoughtful content from inactive players, and am saddened when life interferes. In this case though, it would be Raxxel's replacement, Somi, NSG, and 3DS.

Meant spot. Phone always screwing me over.

 

[Chaco]

What stuck out to me if that even with all the analysis and focus on Xivii I still don't know what Raxx thought of Xivii's alignment. Probably town lean, but it was never stated. That's why I said Raxx wasn't trying to sort anyone.

So basically yeah. I agree he's a potential yeet, but I'd rather wait until D2 and let his replacement speak up

Entirely understandable.m, and completely agree about Raxx not trying to sort anyone.