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Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

fontisian

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Vote Boomfrog

Boom feels manipulative. Specifically, I'm looking at the response to me about Chaco, the post Xivii quoted (the "feels like we're getting wrong") and this:
So you are not talking about me in the bolded? Stop contridicting yourself. No more gambits, no more fake opinions to get a reaction, no more unserious votes. You are causing the same problems UP did in Oasis with your fancy play syndrome. You've burned up all your credit. If you keep this up and we also don't hit scum then you are going to get my postmortem finger of doom. And if you are town you are going to lose the game for us.
Slimy.

Xivii Xivii , just control f for "Chaco" in Frozen's posts. The pocketing attempt is obvious.
 

fontisian

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Town
Fonti
Xivii
Darkpit
Chaco
Mala
Z25
Trisscar
Exlight

Eh
Laser

Not town
Rajam
Boom

Imo, we kill all of the bottom three before stressing about any of the townreads.
 

BoomFrog

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Vote Boomfrog

Boom feels manipulative. Specifically, I'm looking at the response to me about Chaco, the post Xivii quoted (the "feels like we're getting wrong") and this:

Slimy.
"Feels like we are wrong" was a bad post. There may be only one scum buddy left so they may not have much influence to resist the Rajam yeet. I understand the slimyness of that post. But my call for Zen to stop gambiting was genuine and as pure of a post as I'm able to make.

But it's true, I'm habitually manipulative in this game, even as town. Zen and Laser can confirm that and I said as much as town in Oasis.
 

Chaco

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I was out for a bit re reading Xivii and Chaco, and then re reading everything since Xivii claimed. I'm leaning towards Chaco v Xivii being T v T right now.

In all his posts Chaco shows and says that he reads from his gut, and to me he looks like he would have a hard time distinguishing people that are scummy from people who are bad town or lying town. He's overly focusing on Xivii being untrustworthy, and then going to conclusions that fit logically with his thoughts of why someone would be untrustworthy. You can see it in how he started off after Xivii claimed by still thinking Xivii was town, but attacking Xivii's reasoning and logic. When Xivii held that his reasoning was sound, Chaco then started looking for other reasons and came across Xivii being scum. Thats natural thought progression.

Xivii is town because he has no reason to redact his claim unless he is traitor. If Xivii is traitor, bussing his scum partner is an incredibly bad idea. Besides the fact that I'm willing to believe Xivii in him not bussing, traitor Xivii would have no way of knowing which scumbuddy had the PR's, I asked UP. Traitor Xivii without Night Kill and without PR doesn't buss as that is a terrible trade for scum team. Xivii could have put effort into changing people away from Fonti, and tried to make a new viable wagon, this is something I believe scum Xivii is capable of, he also could have gotten a wagon going on himself even though that is a less optimal play. Regardless of the success of those prior actions, they would still be a better play than voting FF and campaigning for the FF wagon. Traitor Xivii in this case also has no actual reason to be on the FF wagon in the first place. He didn't need the towncred for it since he was going to be thought of as cleared tomorrow if Fonti was cleared, and being on FF would only lead to scum team potentially targeting him for the nightkill.
You’re right about the part where it is hard to discern bad and anti town playing from scum based on the way I play, let alone the fact that it’s been so long it’s even harder to tell.

But at your point about Xivii’s plays unlikely being scum: it’s unlikely that town does that either. Sure it might fit his meta, but that’s about it. There’s no positive connotation and that’s why I have such a hard problem believing that anything he spews is worth listening to. It’s like saying I know you will lie for the sake of lying, but it’s okay to lie because you always do and we now can’t figure out if town you lies as much as scum you, or if scum you is the pure of heart one that doesn’t lie.

I just don’t see a point in feeding us **** and calling it sugar.
 

BoomFrog

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I wrote up a case against Z to vote them but while doing it decided they actually had sincere progression even if I disagree with the logic. I still think Rajam is the play.
 

BoomFrog

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Chaco Chaco That's why you need to judge Zen by his actions not words. Which is why I said I can't read him D1. His EoD action against FF is pretty unlikely to be coming from scum Zen. End of story, move on.
 

BoomFrog

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Xivii Xivii If I'm scum then I'm having a really bad game. I really set myself up for the worst possible position D1 by pushing FF enough to get attention on him but not enough to get credit for his downfall. I knew I wouldn't get enough support to yeet you D1 and was expecting to die first. Do you really think I'd do that badly on my first scum game on this board?
 

Xivii

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Boom the thing is, it doesn't feel like you have any drive to find scum. It's like you're just along for the ride. You only have town reads. Who is the scum team?
 

BoomFrog

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Boom the thing is, it doesn't feel like you have any drive to find scum. It's like you're just along for the ride. You only have town reads. Who is the scum team?
Accurate take. We are doing pretty well so I'm not that worried. We've eliminated half the player pool due to D1 success. Rajam has pretty good odds of being scum. Z25, exlight, laser, and even choco could be buddies. I'd bet we don't have a traitor based on how few connections there seem to be.
 

Darkpit54

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So what's the play for today? I still feel that a Boom flip would give us more information, but I think both are probably scum.

Not sure I agree on Laser still tbh
What are your thoughts Laser rn?
 

Xivii

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Your being a politician: you don't have a scum read on any of those players and you have defended and implied they are town, yet apparently they "could be buddies." You're trying to play both sides without stepping on toes or getting your hands dirty.

Darkpit54 Darkpit54 where's going with Boom.
 

BoomFrog

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Z25 Z25 When you read the thread, do you check pings and quotes or read the whole thread straight through in order?
 

ExLight

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How did your exam go
pretty mediocre
and the ****ing scanner stopped working right when I was trying to submit it and I almost missed the deadline
had to rushingly take phone pics and I'm just hoping it's clear enough for them to read
submitted a scanned version later in the day but the teacher didn't answer me so I'm kinda super worried

I don't really expect to pass that class anyway
 

ExLight

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ok so people are not willing to go after Chaco anymore and are scumreading Z25 more
I'm pretty fine with a Z25 lynch if yall are
 

Rajam

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fontisian, you quoted this:

3DSNinja - town (probability)
Jackrito - scum (number 2 slot)
Trisscar - town (number 3 slot)
Fontisian - town (process of elimination)
#HBC | FrozeηFlame - town (hasn't confirmed which is a town tell)
Chaco - scum (lurking)
Somitomi - town (playing to his meta)
Darkpit54 - scum (frozen)
Raxxel - town (meta)
BoomFrog - (hasn't confirmed which is a scum tell)
Xivii - town (first to post)
LaserGuy - town (isn't online but has confirmed which means eagerly confirmed early)
What do you think of this?:

The argument for the scum team is as follows:

LaserGuy

Fact: LaserGuy is a player that thinks deeply about motivations and intent. He also is cognizant of certain newbie behaviors that cause them to be incorrectly scum read, and has voiced being against pushing them for such behaviors.

Fact: LaserGuy is pushing a newbie player for a statement that is very likely to come from a newbie. It is also a statement that would be absurd for scum to state in public even if they did believe it.

Fact: Scum have to push players for things that are not genuine scum tells because they are informed of who is and who isn't scum.

Assumption: The only motivations a town player at this point in the game would have for pushing a player based on tells they don't believe in are a) seeing how that player responds to pressure, b) seeing how others react.

Fact: LaserGuy reaffirmed his suspicions of NSG in #45 after his inquiry ended.​
Inference: LaserGuy is not pushing NSG to see how he responds to pressure.​
Fact: LaserGuy has not asked any questions from anyone else with regard to NSG.​
Inference: LaserGuy is not looking to see how others react to his pressure.​
Conclusion: LaserGuy is not pushing NGS based on tells he doesn't believe for town motivated reasons.​
Inference: LaserGuy is scum.

NonSpecificGuy

Observation: Scum!LaserGuy is reluctant to push town players for newbie tells. This was seen in his previous scum game (Oasis Mafia) where he fence sat on his read of 3DS Ninja, who had been a popular wagon based on newbie statements, before ultimately declaring he would vote there.

Fact: LaserGuy is pushing NSG for a newbie statement.

Assumption: If LaserGuy knew the newbie player was actually scum, he wouldn't feel worried about pushing that player.

Inference: LaserGuy knows NSG is scum.


BoomFrog

Fact: BoomFrog stated that he does not find LaserGuy suspicious.

Assertion: BoomFrog has all of the experiences and capability necessary to have come to the same conclusion that I have on LaserGuy. Therefore, if BoomFrog was town, he would have the same suspicions of LaserGuy as I do.

Inference: BoomFrog is deliberately keeping his read on LaserGuy concealed for town motivated reasons or BoomFrog is scum.


FrozenFlame

Fact: Frozen had mentioned every player who had been involved in a game relevant event so far other than LaserGuy and NGS.

Fact: I have been pushing LaserGuy and NGS.

Hypothesis: If LaserGuy and NGS are partners, and a town player was pushing them, the third scummate would be inclined to avoid engaging in that discussion and wait things out before commenting.

Justification: I've previously pushed a scum player and their partner did just this.​
Inference: FrozenFlame is possibly LaserGuy's and NSG's scummate.
At minimum, 1 of these is correct (LaserGuy). It is highly likely that at least 2 of them are correct. And somewhat likely at least 3 of them are correct. It also assumes that LaserGuy is mafia and not a traitor. In the event that he traitor, the case on FrozenFlame would be invalidated. It would also increase the chance that BoomFrog is mafia because him not perceiving LaserGuy as scummy would likely be coming from being informed that LaserGuy is not mafia.
 

Rajam

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I see myself agreeing with DarkPit's #983 as the Boom - frozen interactions during D1 fit within the characteristics of scum distancing. I'm also really bugged at the last BoomFrog's post during D1:

Looks like I'm allowed to post still. If FF flips town and I'm dead D2 then Font and xivii are scum mates.
Conveniently appears after hammer; this feels like a fake 'if'. Where are the 'if' in case of a frozen scum flip?
 

Rajam

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yea I know
but if certain Boom's messages came before FF's I could see it as a traitor trying to get their attention
I should prolly reread Boom's messages too to see if he poked anyone else really hard maybe
What do you mean by this? Got anything?

Anyways, this seems to me as a theory-to-check coming from a townie mindset
 

Z25

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Coaching is when one scum player mentors another in private chat. I was making a statement that it felt like Boom was telling you to push me and not to let up since he couldn't do it himself.
I’m aware of coaching but what did that have to do with the two posts your quoted? His was trying to find a way to get sympathy from both of use rather then push us one way or another.
 

Z25

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And if we yeet boom and he’s scum feel free to track me if you want.

I don’t have any issues there. The same also applies if we yeet someone else who is scum. But I’m still thinking given his last few posts, Boom is not town.
 

ExLight

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What do you mean by this? Got anything?

Anyways, this seems to me as a theory-to-check coming from a townie mindset
I did, but didn't really seem like a strong case so I'm not even bothering on pushing it much
 

Chaco

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Literally 3/4 of the playerbase has been suspected today from an original small Lynch pool. There’s to much stuff going on in the sidelines that has completely distracted away from the main targets. Partly my fault, but I’m just gonna stand back some from all of the useless banter. It literally did nothing but aggravate me and paint me in a negative light, and allow ass tons of confusion.

My vote is gonna stay on Boom. It looks like this is the final push here, so I’ll keep an eye on the thread but I’m gonna minimize my posting and contribution for now.

Vote:BoomFrog
 

fontisian

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Chaco and Z both feel pretty genuine. I guess I'm wondering if it's possible we're sleeping on Triss or Darkpit?
 

BoomFrog

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I read the whole thread in order why?
This is problematic, because I think you replied to my questioning before you reacted to Xivii's earlier mega reveal. That would mean your reaction was faked.

No time to check back and confirm and quote stuff. It's family time right now. But Z25 is scum if I'm right.

Unvote
 

ExLight

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I don't really have meta on them to work with but would they bus a scum power role like that on D1 instead of jumping off when it was starting to get momentum?
 

Xivii

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Honestly, some dreams when in deep sleep legit feel like alternate universes. It's crazy that my mind could come up with all of that.
 

Xivii

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pretty mediocre
and the ****ing scanner stopped working right when I was trying to submit it and I almost missed the deadline
had to rushingly take phone pics and I'm just hoping it's clear enough for them to read
submitted a scanned version later in the day but the teacher didn't answer me so I'm kinda super worried

I don't really expect to pass that class anyway
aw lame i know the feels
 
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