Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[Z25]

So we are now left with this:

Yeet:

Chaco or Zen.

Boom or Rajam.

If one of these flip scum, the other is probably town and vice verse imo.

There is a slim possibility everyone here is town.

 

[Chaco]

I’m done at this point for the night. Frustrated and annoyed. If you choose to pursue my Lynch, Xivii definitely dies. But I’d look closely at other initiators and not forget BoomFrog, Xivii really just needs to go for muddying everything. But priority is in your hands.

 

[Chaco]

So we are now left with this:

Yeet:

Chaco or Zen.

Boom or Rajam.

If one of these flip scum, the other is probably town and vice verse imo.

There is a slim possibility everyone here is town.

Xivii and Boom out of the two.

Town:
Fonti
Darkpit
Trisscar

Middle ground town lean:
Z25
Mala

Null:
Laser
Rajam

Scummy:
Boom
Xivii
ExLight

 

[Z25]

You know what, I’m going with this,

Vote: Boom


Last post felt like he was trying to clear both of us and knew we were both Town(me and zen). I think that’s the play today. We can sort anyone else after.

 

[Chaco]

Lynch priority in order on scumlist. But feel free to yeet Xivii on principle before Boom.

 

[Chaco]

Everything on list is in order besides midtown lean which is a toss up.

 

[ExLight]

Still not sure what the whole fronting and weird drunkposting stuff is Exlight. I'm not scumreadin you because of it, but if it's what I think it is, you should relax a bit mate.

idek what fronting is
and what's that even supposed to mean, relax what, I'm pretty chill :surppika:

 

[Rajam]

I'm back and I need to read the last 387402371 pages. Anything needed from me? Am I still alive?

 

[ExLight]

I'm back and I need to read the last 387402371 pages. Anything needed from me? Am I still alive?

you got hammered but not really

 

[ExLight]

so yea maybe quite a bit of discussion
might want to drop your final thoughts here in case poy decides to kill you off

 

[Trisscar]

idek what fronting is
and what's that even supposed to mean, relax what, I'm pretty chill :surppika:

Fronting is like.... Ya know how when you get a bunch of outgoing people meeting each other for the first time, and there's this period of sorta posing and general bluffing of confidence and authoritativeness?
Kiiiiinda that, but that's one specific example.

 

[Rajam]

I think so. Very few viable wagons, the alternative was in himself. Both go against wincon, but one self preserves because other scum don’t know he’s scum. So he muddies enough to survive.

To the top, his best post from town perspective was to never unclaim if he’s truly town. Cause all he did was take a **** on town doing so.

I think that would've been his best play as scum

claiming/unclaiming is utterly dumb but town nonetheless

 

[Rajam]

you got hammered but not really

how so

request votecount

 

[ExLight]

Fronting is like.... Ya know how when you get a bunch of outgoing people meeting each other for the first time, and there's this period of sorta posing and general bluffing of confidence and authoritativeness?
Kiiiiinda that, but that's one specific example.

I have played with a few of the people here before though
although I guess they've never seen me rolling scum tbh

 

[ExLight]

how so

request votecount

the host's votecount was wrong and people accidentally hammered you but they're asking the mod to not consider it since it was wrong

 

[Rajam]

I’ll pose this question then.

What does town zen get from saying he lied when if he’s town he would be set for the whole game now with not counter to his claim.

The answer nothing, it looks bad.

But role would have an advantage here?

A traitor. They could cause paranoia and set up their lunch to derail town.

Do you think Zen was trying to save a scummate? Me, someone else? If me, what about his vote on me?

 

[Z25]

Do you think Zen was trying to save a scummate? Me, someone else? If me, what about his vote on me?

I think there is a good chance he’s trying to misdirect us. Is it to save a mate? Possibly, it his goal could also be to try and distance the whole team and setup them for a win.

 

[ExLight]

the host's votecount was wrong and people accidentally hammered you but they're asking the mod to not consider it since it was wrong

can we get a flash readslist before anything else Rajam
I feel like those are more important if you could die at any moment

 

[Rajam]

I think there is a good chance he’s trying to misdirect us. Is it to save a mate? Possibly, it his goal could also be to try and distance the whole team and setup them for a win.

Be specific. Name the possible targets you think Zen was trying to save

 

[Rajam]

ExLight, I need to read the last few pages but my read list hasn't changed so far:

I finished reading D1 and my reads haven't changed that much since last I posted them:

fontizian: cleared mechanics-wise, pinned frozen, initial plan in his (her?) 1st post was super townie, and overall townie attitude
Chaco / DarkPit: Both slots are a bit the same; no specific posts that caused a strong impression but rather their whole gameplay has caused that; no post of them so far ringed the scum bell for me. Solid town reads
Malakandra: Some specific posts I've already quoted make me think he/she is town. Overall townie play as well, no scum bell ringing at any point
trisscar: Basically in the same situation as Malakandra; frozen's words about the slot, and the timing of trisscar's vote on frozen makes me think he/she is town. A step below fonti, Chaco, DarkPit and Malakandra, but still solid town read
Zen: cleared via mechanics, null otherwise until claiming not chocolate, which as scum makes no sense. Solid town too

somitomi / ExLight / LaserGuy: Legit null. Wasn't liking somitomi absence but I guess is understandable as they were replacing out. I've tried to read Laser but I just can't make my mind around this slot. Their actions during the end of D1 were lackluster: both of them voting for targets with 0 chance of getting the hammer and not doing the work to convince people to shift their ways, but both of them had a somewhat valid excuse: ExLight was just replacing in, Laser told he/she wasn't up to date with the last pages. Laser is a bit scummier than ExLight imo tho since I think I've seen some town tells from ExLight, although nothing that conclusive

BoomFrog / Z25: I've already digged and pointed out things about these slots. Their lack of a stronger presence during the end of D1 is also a plus against them. If anything I still stand that BoomFrog and Laser aren't scummates though.

Overall I'm super highly confident in my town reads, more than I am in the couple of scumreads I have (I am confident in those, I'm more confident in my town reads though). I'm ok with that anyways, lynching by PoE its fine for me

 

[fontisian]

Why does everything always go to **** when I leave for a few hours?

 

[Xivii]

Chieftess Fontisianaisia, without your guidance we are mere soldiers without a commander; a chicken without a head, so to say. I beg of you, please bring unity to our tribe once again and undo the chaos that has befallen us.

 

[Z25]

Be specific. Name the possible targets you think Zen was trying to save

If I were to make a prediction, Boom is the likeliest action, given the weird vote then switch afterwards when Boom made one post.

 

[LaserGuy]

Wow, busy day today.

Catch-up thoughts:

I don't agree with Xivii's point (#1453) on z25 regarding him not making the post #958 during twilight. I don't really agree z25 wouldn't do something like this based on what I observed in SS. Not going to comment on the situation in detail for reasons but zero chance I'm giving z25 a clear for a post like this.

Exlight's reactions seem very natural, and I think his frustration is pretty genuine. Exlight seems completely oblivious to the mechanics of how the traitor role works which kind of blows my theory that he's the traitor. I guess he's Town lean now.

Chaco's #1525 doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The Neo wouldn't investigate Xivii and if he did either the result would be: Not Vanilla (consistent with chocolate) or VT (not consistent but confirmed Town). Neither poses a problem here, and the whole point of the chocolate claiming is that there's no point for the Neo to target them and it's better not to confuse the issue for the Neo (or provide cover for scum). The most problematic question for Xivii is: What happens if the chocolate claims? IMHO he gets lynched on a hard CC here. I know I would be pushing for his lynch at that point.

Xivii's case on Chaco is interesting (#1542). Chaco has kind of been on the edge of my lynch pool today based on wagon position. And his subsequent push on Xivii feels very of opportunistic to me. There's basically zero benefit to scum!Xivii recanting his claim here. He already has Town credit and nobody has cced. Consider how long fonti and Sabrar were able to stay alive as claimed (scum) PRs in SS without Town getting overly suspicious of the fact that they weren't dead yet. With several other PRs in the game, scum!Xivii could easily have ridden this claim for many days yet. Town is justifiably frustrated with Xivii's antics and I feel Chaco is trying to use this as an excuse to lynch him before Town really has the chance to work through the logic.

Darkpit gets it right in #1562.

Mala's reaction strikes me as very townie in #1592. #1603 looks good too. He's comfortable Town.

z25's reaction (#1598) is similar to Chaco's in that he doesn't seem to have actually worked through why Xivii would ever revoke his claim as mafia and goes for a strong push instead. z25 is clearly aware that this whole business is within Xivii's town range (e.g. mention of multiple fake cop checks as Town) so this push feels suspicious to me. In fairness to z25, he was very suspicious of my emoji gambit in Oasis so there's a better chance that he just gets unreasonably irate over this kind of thing as Town.

Boom's #1610 is a very BoomFrog style of post. But I don't agree at all with the analysis of z25 or Chaco... or me. Could be defending buddies, but I almost feel it could be Boom is imposing his game-long frustration on his reads here. Still scum lean, but not as strong as some others.

I can't imagine Xivii being traitor here (z25's 1634 and similar). Lynching Frozen is so against wincon that even if Xivii was known to bus, he'd never do it here. Look at the confusion Xivii made recanting his claim right now. You think if he recants when he starts to see the Frozen wagon taking off that the lynch isn't going to swing wildly somewhere else and maybe push the lynch off Frozen? That's a far better play for a traitor with this claim even if the lynch ends up hitting Xivii.

I really don't like the commentary about Xivii being lynched at LYLO over this (chaco #1692). Seriously. If you really want to policy lynch this you don't do it at ****ing LYLO when the game is on the line. Chaco looking very scummy here. z25 as well.


Okay, I think that's everything I need to comment on.

Town
LaserGuy
fonti
Darkpit
Trisscar
Mala
Xivii

Exlight

BoomFrog
Rajam
z25
Chaco
Scum

Vote Chaco

 

[Chaco]

How is it opportunistic when I’ve been the one steadily pushing Xivii for misinformation and fake claiming with no upside? The claim felt faulty, and it was. Has that changed from D1 to now? Given the information at hand, if Neo was alive and Xivii recanted his claim was the question posed? Sorry I left that open ended enough for it to be opportunistic for scum to push.

I said I was done reading this for tonight but I’m drinking and calmed from this, so I’ll respond.

Xivii’s excuses for fakeclaiming are utter garbage and had no benefit to town. Literally zero. Any point to argue this as town is pure bandwagon due to a widely accepted notion that Xivii’s notices are pure. Dude, per everyone else, lies or fake claims every single game. Do I know that meta? Obviously not and I sensed something off about the claim, which has held true. So tell me how that is inherently scummy. You allowed it to be spun by Xivii and then lo and behold here we are with a wagon. I don’t think there’s any backing off of the frustration I’ve felt today because it became widely accepted that we can just fake claim and gambit as town with no real benefit? It’s completely and totally anti town. I don’t see how people compartmentalize the actions as town, and hold it. If you can’t see the visible frustration from my posts, and see how Xivii’s demeanor changed when he gained positive light, then there nothing else I can say. I’ve laid my reads out. Somehow the basic Lynch pool has grossly expanded to where we are now. Rajam is likely not scum due to how fast wagon advanced, push on me is grunt and based off of the fact that Xivii’s motives are genuine. If you can tell me one positive way it will influence town, I’ll back off, but I don’t see anything. I’m gonna claim miller because no one else will and try and force a claim? Seriously. Convoluted strategy that will reap no benefit. Arguably my mechanics are rusty, but you’re gonna find yourself sitting through the bull**** from a mass claim. It’s almost inevitable at this point. The continued random pushes are narrowing PRs to non existence and it’s basically fish in the barrel for scum. Misdirection and floundering from vote to vote and basing nothing off of FFs scum flip. How did we venture so far to here? Mislynch me toDay and just analyze the wagon. Your Lynch pool will be the same day start toMorrow as toDay.

Don’t ignore the actual connections for fabricated things and misdirection in the name of Town.

Xivii is likely traitor, and if for some odd reason he is town, then you can deal with the mess he’s caused from his gambits. I’ve never seen anything as glaringly antitown excused as protown. But all the same, if you choose to pursue my wagon. Execute in the order listed. But if you continue to follow the misdirection, LyLo is inevitable. Slam dunk for town turned into a wine spewed mess.

You think scummates would let me play the way I have? More than likely not. My reads and stances have been the same with the exception of new information and slot evolvement. Xivii can’t be trusted. Booms connection to FF is noticeable, and FFs continuous prods at Somi’s slot can’t be ignored.

I’m leaving it at that for now, but us I got frustrated and my view of the mechanics is vastly different from most. But don’t allow a mislynch because you’re familiar with a slot BSing as town consistently.

 

[Chaco]

Watch wagon positioning carefully. It’s gonna be loaded with scum.

 

[fontisian]

Chaco is not mafia. This wagon is bad.

 

[BoomFrog]

Chaco is not mafia. This wagon is bad.

As I've been saying repeatedly. Maybe they will listen to you.

 

[Darkpit54]

As much as I don't really like Xivii's fake claim, I don't see scum revoking it. He was essentially cleared in many people's eyes due to it, scum would have no reason to revoke

I still think toDay the play should be Boom or Raj

 

[BoomFrog]

LaserGuy If you didn't believe Xivii's claim but thought he was town. Why did you say that you don't believe the claim? Shouldn't you be coy about it and try to let him trick scum or whatever he was trying to do?

 

[LaserGuy]

LaserGuy If you didn't believe Xivii's claim but thought he was town. Why did you say that you don't believe the claim? Shouldn't you be coy about it and try to let him trick scum or whatever he was trying to do?

My comments were primarily directed at whether he would fake this claim as mafia, as there was some ongoing discussion about that at the time. I did consider the scenario where he was faking this claim as Town and decided it probably didn't matter unless there was a counterclaim.

 

[Xivii]

Chaco is not mafia. This wagon is bad.

Could you go into my case and also town case him?

 

[Xivii]

Up said he wont count the Raj hammer btw

 

[Xivii]

Feels like we are getting this wrong. Doesn't it...

*doesn't do anything about it*

Vote: Boom

Let's end this.

 

[Xivii]

Ok but what does that mean? You think Boom is clearing us or misdirecting?

Coaching is when one scum player mentors another in private chat. I was making a statement that it felt like Boom was telling you to push me and not to let up since he couldn't do it himself.

 

[Xivii]

The evidence against Boom is overwhelming. I'd be genuinely surprised if he flips town. Probably should track Z25 tonight.

 

[Xivii]

I'll bring up everything against Boom again if I need to but for now sleep.

 

[Malakandra]

I was out for a bit re reading Xivii and Chaco, and then re reading everything since Xivii claimed. I'm leaning towards Chaco v Xivii being T v T right now.

In all his posts Chaco shows and says that he reads from his gut, and to me he looks like he would have a hard time distinguishing people that are scummy from people who are bad town or lying town. He's overly focusing on Xivii being untrustworthy, and then going to conclusions that fit logically with his thoughts of why someone would be untrustworthy. You can see it in how he started off after Xivii claimed by still thinking Xivii was town, but attacking Xivii's reasoning and logic. When Xivii held that his reasoning was sound, Chaco then started looking for other reasons and came across Xivii being scum. Thats natural thought progression.

Xivii is town because he has no reason to redact his claim unless he is traitor. If Xivii is traitor, bussing his scum partner is an incredibly bad idea. Besides the fact that I'm willing to believe Xivii in him not bussing, traitor Xivii would have no way of knowing which scumbuddy had the PR's, I asked UP. Traitor Xivii without Night Kill and without PR doesn't buss as that is a terrible trade for scum team. Xivii could have put effort into changing people away from Fonti, and tried to make a new viable wagon, this is something I believe scum Xivii is capable of, he also could have gotten a wagon going on himself even though that is a less optimal play. Regardless of the success of those prior actions, they would still be a better play than voting FF and campaigning for the FF wagon. Traitor Xivii in this case also has no actual reason to be on the FF wagon in the first place. He didn't need the towncred for it since he was going to be thought of as cleared tomorrow if Fonti was cleared, and being on FF would only lead to scum team potentially targeting him for the nightkill.

 

[Malakandra]

Why Boom over Rajam?

I get what you are saying there, but Rajam has also had some really bad posts. His recent readslist for example where he does the exact same thing as FF for example, and hasn't really done anything town. I think they are likely both to be scum, but no point in risking if Boom is town and he claims either narrowing the NK pool for scum or worse.

 

[Malakandra]

... I said for example twice in that last post. I'm up too late.