Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[Darkpit54]

But our deadline for D1 is what end of the week? So we have time to force them in here

Can you explain what the benefits of getting claims right now would be? I think currently I'd be inclined to agree with Trisscar, as it seems like it would give scum much clearer targets, without giving us much information yet as they haven't even taken any actions yet

 

[Chaco]

Uh the top part obv.

bottom was serious.

you can take my hand though if you want.

 

[Chaco]

Can you explain what the benefits of getting claims right now would be? I think currently I'd be inclined to agree with Trisscar, as it seems like it would give scum much clearer targets, without giving us much information yet as they haven't even taken any actions yet

no one said anything about claiming roles today. Multiple times I said only Neo should claim. But that being D2, maybe D3 at latest so that way a counter claim does middle up stuff.
Im talking about forcing in inactives? Is that not obvious?

 

[Darkpit54]

no one said anything about claiming roles today. Multiple times I said only Neo should claim. But that being D2, maybe D3 at latest so that way a counter claim does middle up stuff.
Im talking about forcing in inactives? Is that not obvious?

Ahhh my bad, I misunderstood. Thank you for explaining

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

hey all sorry I got to this a little late, hadn't checked my smashboards notifications yet this weekend

I can read Xivii, I just have to give him zero credit for emotional outbursts.

Vote Chaco

Overly defensive about lurking, and votes the one guy who is participating most, which is maximizing the jokeness of the vote and minimizing the chance to start scum hunting.

can you unpack this a little more? Like what specifically are you seeing that indicates disproportionate defensiveness and what about what he did do you think was intended to slow/minimize a transition into scumhunting from early game?

So you don’t find it off Xivii completely ignores the fact I call him out for being into everything, after being into everything? Generally speaking when someone chooses to ignore any look to them after feigning so much activity, that’s a scum tell. I don’t see anything logical about his play thus far.

Second , it’s hard to decipher dumb/scum due to the way he’s currently playing. Relatively most of what he’s posted is fluff.

Third, game opened up 3 hours after I last viewed the thread cause I moved houses yesterday... how would I be lurking at 1pm when game wasn’t open then? It’s okay though to make a jab at a player you have no idea how they play, but that’s a reach at best.

FoS: Boomfrog
Insta defense of Xivii while crediting his word as fact.

What you do mean when you say he is "being into everything?" And what makes you think he's feigning activity as opposed to just being spammy for lulz or natural excitement to just get whimsical convo started at in RVS?

The FOS here on boomfrog also comes off reallllly OMGUS-y

To be honest I don't get what you mean about Xivii at all. I think Xivii's been relatively proactive, especially for early game. I don't think your criticism of him "being into everything" makes much sense either, so I can't blame him for not addressing it when you're essentially just criticizing his hyperactivity, which isn't valid imo and therefor there's little to say about it.

This post stood out to me because I had a similar reaction to chacos aggro toward Xivii but this post comes off as a bit protective. Not questioning not being persuaded by chacos attack but this seems to go an extra step toward trying to shore up Xivii with support that isn't really needed at this point given how early we are. Im not suss of Xivii and I am suss of chacos attack but I didnt feel the impulse to jump to Xiviis defense and that what this feels like

I'm going to pull us off topic for a sec to talk mechanics. Looking at the setup, there's a chance of having a visitor. N1 we could say if you are the visitor, target x person. The voyuer can then choose to target that person if they want to learn the indentity of the visitor, and if they instead choose to target elsewhere and see someone, they will then know they did not see the Visitor. Theoretically, we could also extend this the neapolitan targetting the same person, thus potentially giving two confirmed town to the masons n1 and allowing them to better steer the village d2. We then start d2 with everyone giving a neapolitan soft on the individual chosen to target (i.e. if we chose Xivii, I would start the Day saying "if I am the neapolitan, I checked Xivii as vanilla"). The masons then have the info needed to figure out the real neapolitan, and the information on every town role except potentially the chocolate to decide what to do with the neap checks.

Mafia could interfere with this strategy by role blocking a role n1 or role copping the assigned target, but they probably wouldn't do the latter because it runs the risk of outing them.

Thoughts?

I get good genuine analysis vibes from this post which isnt a true town tell because savvy scum can analyze open info strategy just as well as town but this actually seems like it was a legitimate attempt at optimization despite the voyeur misconception

 

[3DSNinja]

I'm not posting much becasue I want more time and I don't want to die D1/N1.

 

[Chaco]

hey all sorry I got to this a little late, hadn't checked my smashboards notifications yet this weekend

can you unpack this a little more? Like what specifically are you seeing that indicates disproportionate defensiveness and what about what he did do you think was intended to slow/minimize a transition into scumhunting from early game?

What you do mean when you say he is "being into everything?" And what makes you think he's feigning activity as opposed to just being spammy for lulz or natural excitement to just get whimsical convo started at in RVS?

The FOS here on boomfrog also comes off reallllly OMGUS-y

This post stood out to me because I had a similar reaction to chacos aggro toward Xivii but this post comes off as a bit protective. Not questioning not being persuaded by chacos attack but this seems to go an extra step toward trying to shore up Xivii with support that isn't really needed at this point given how early we are. Im not suss of Xivii and I am suss of chacos attack but I didnt feel the impulse to jump to Xiviis defense and that what this feels like

I get good genuine analysis vibes from this post which isnt a true town tell because savvy scum can analyze open info strategy just as well as town but this actually seems like it was a legitimate attempt at optimization despite the voyeur misconception

Because I’ve literally not seen much of anything from him other than randomness unless directly asking of him. And outside of that just essentially fluff.

I can see why you’d think OMGUS in Boomfrog but not the case. Compounded with how I already feel about Xivii, the attack on me just seems conveniently placed to pull onto me. I could see connection between Raxx/Xiivi/Boom

 

[Chaco]

I'm not posting much becasue I want more time and I don't want to die D1/N1.

I would literally rather lynch you because of this. This is such a **** post.

 

[3DSNinja]

Guess what? Whenever I post a ****ton, I die. Every single time. Plus, we just started. I'm waiting till we get more posts to make reads.

 

[Chaco]

Guess what? Whenever I post a ****ton, I die. Every single time. Plus, we just started. I'm waiting till we get more posts to make reads.

**** post still. Just play the game. Posting isn’t gonna kill you.

more posts of which can be contributed by you, rather than without you

 

[somitomi]

Expand on this. I assume you mean this game will have a lot of players willingly being lynched. I'm less curious of the why and more as to how you came to that conclusion.

Wait, people getting willingly lynched? I'm not saying I can't see that happening, but I'm wondering why you think there will be a lot of players doing that.

Could be lack of play for me over the years, but a tell for me always was feigning activity. Posting for the sake of posting basically, because I don’t see anything other than fluff. Can you show me where he’s been proactive in your opinion because I just don’t see it. Again D1 is a cluster until people get to posting, but I don’t see anything useful but from certain people.

Odd, being kinda hyperactive isn't much of a tell in my experience. Not making any calls about Xivii's alignment right now, but there are some people who just play like that regardless of which team they're on.

I mean can you hear the chainsaw? Attack to protect.

Chainsaw?

I'm not posting much becasue I want more time and I don't want to die D1/N1.

Well, not posting much is a fairly good way to get lynched D1

Mmm, dunno. VTs aren't exactly easy to confirm without having someone check them, so I don't think a claim fest right NOW is a good idea. The Vts need to be a buffer for the power roles atm so they can do some things and get info. Honestly the best play for town is to have no one be a good nightkill target at all, and force the maf to guess, I think.

Agreed, I don't really see the point of anyone claiming other than maybe the chocolate.

 

[Chaco]

Could be years since not playing that’s causing me to read it differently, but concision is pro town. Random fluff and hyperactivity never sat well with me.

chainsaw defense, attacking someone’s accuser in defense of them

 

[Chaco]

And correct me if I’m wrong, but chocolate is just a named role correct? VT but named, or in this case is it just to off set Neopolitan from a VT read?

if so, all cool with a chocolate claim tbh.

 

[Xivii]

NSG's opener looks to be coming more from scum POV. Since he is apparently new(ish), I was curious if his previous games had happened to be all/mostly mafia-aligned as that might give him a bit of a skewed perspective. One game out of several doesn't seem like it should, so I'm leaving him on a scum lean.

I don't think this is something a town player would really believe.

Laser is town vibey to me rn cause he brings genuine question

What questions felt genuine and for what reason did they feel so?

The masons then have the info needed to figure out the real neapolitan, and the information on every town role except potentially the chocolate to decide what to do with the neap checks.

This seemed like a good way for scum to make sure they weren't hitting watcher's target.

....I'm not posting much this game, btw.

What do you think of my read on LaserGuy and NonSpecificGuy?

The Guy Team.

Thank you for linking.

Gotcha. So you think that BoomFrogs assessment of my rebut to the lurking comment would take it as a literal PoV? Not a joked early read list?

what makes Boomfrog strong scum, iyo? Same with Fontisian?

what do you think overall about how I’ve read your gameplay thus far? And why the aversion to comment to it? Think I will change my opinion based off of a comparison to your confirmed town okay?

I think you two are misunderstanding each other. My post was indeed a joke. It was the first post in the game so none of those reads could be real and you couldn't have actually been lurking. I believe BoomFrog interpreted this correctly and is saying that you failing to interpret it that way and defensively reacting to it is what is scummy.

BoomFrog is very good at treading the line between being scummy and not being lynched. He also has an uncanny ability to think in the way that others are thinking and uses this to predict what actions they will take with a high degree of accuracy. I recently was scummates with Fonti and saw how she works behind the scenes. She is adept at perceiving the flow of the game and the various paths it could take. She was highly town read by virtually every player in that game through to the end.

I don't have a strong opinion on your approach to my slot so far. I am leaning town, but it could be easily reversed at this point. I don't think your misinterpretation of my initial post is necessarily alignment indicative. I think the most suspicious play you've made so far is the desire for Neapolitan to claim early. I think this is perhaps a lynchable offense.

I don't think the game I linked should change your opinion. If anything it should reinforce it. I believe I played differently, though there were some common features such as my meme read lists.

 

[Xivii]

I think only a town player would make a post that large and in-depth.

BoomFrog what do you think about LaserGuy's case on NSG?

 

[Xivii]

Plus my thoughts flew really naturally.

 

[Xivii]

Is the past tense of flow the same as the past tense of fly?

 

[Xivii]

Town Core
Xivii
Trisscar
Fontisian
Jackrito
Somitomi

Probably Town
Raxxel
BoomFrog
Darkpit54
Chaco
3DSNinja

Investigate
#HBC | FrozeηFlame

Scum
NSG
LaserGuy

 

[Xivii]

A genuine read list early on is very pro-townie.

But it is a naked read list.

-Ran points

 

[Jackrito]

Town Core
Xivii
Trisscar
Fontisian
Jackrito
Somitomi

Probably Town
Raxxel
BoomFrog
Darkpit54
Chaco
3DSNinja

Investigate
#HBC | FrozeηFlame

Scum
NSG
LaserGuy

We doing another game where you are just going to throw random stuff together. I did one nothing post I should not be town to you.

 

[BoomFrog]

BoomFrog what do you think about LaserGuy's case on NSG?

I agree NSG's post is newbie not scummy. But I've seen LaserGuy pick at similar points that I disagreed with when he was town, so I'm not going to read much into it yet.

 

[Jackrito]

I'm going to pull us off topic for a sec to talk mechanics. Looking at the setup, there's a chance of having a visitor. N1 we could say if you are the visitor, target x person. The voyuer can then choose to target that person if they want to learn the indentity of the visitor, and if they instead choose to target elsewhere and see someone, they will then know they did not see the Visitor. Theoretically, we could also extend this the neapolitan targetting the same person, thus potentially giving two confirmed town to the masons n1 and allowing them to better steer the village d2. We then start d2 with everyone giving a neapolitan soft on the individual chosen to target (i.e. if we chose Xivii, I would start the Day saying "if I am the neapolitan, I checked Xivii as vanilla"). The masons then have the info needed to figure out the real neapolitan, and the information on every town role except potentially the chocolate to decide what to do with the neap checks.

Mafia could interfere with this strategy by role blocking a role n1 or role copping the assigned target, but they probably wouldn't do the latter because it runs the risk of outing them.

Thoughts?

I think you may be scum for this heavy focus on mechs to try and enter in a decent way. In reality though these scum reads for this never come true and you may just be the mech type player. Plans like this though when in the open so much help scum more then town though

 

[Jackrito]

Not to sound like a newbie, but can you explain how you got a read on everyone before the game even began? I'm a bit confused.

Or was somitomi correct in saying they were all tongue-in-cheek and I've just tragically missed the joke?

Giving this a light town read because of how pure and naive it comes off as. Scum would struggle to come off this pure imo.

 

[fontisian]

Frankly I find the idea of not trying to game a semi-open setup bizarre.

I think Xivii is a lot looser, maybe, than he was at the start of the last game. Could be a mood thing, but I think it speaks well for him.

 

[BoomFrog]

I think Xivii is a lot looser, maybe, than he was at the start of the last game. Could be a mood thing, but I think it speaks well for him.

No. Xivii gets zero town points for tone and style. You should know this already after last game. Xivii is in the top 3 of dangerous players. Possibly #1.

 

[Chaco]

I don't think this is something a town player would really believe.
What questions felt genuine and for what reason did they feel so?
This seemed like a good way for scum to make sure they weren't hitting watcher's target.
What do you think of my read on LaserGuy and NonSpecificGuy?

The Guy Team.
I think you two are misunderstanding each other. My post was indeed a joke. It was the first post in the game so none of those reads could be real and you couldn't have actually been lurking. I believe BoomFrog interpreted this correctly and is saying that you failing to interpret it that way and defensively reacting to it is what is scummy.

BoomFrog is very good at treading the line between being scummy and not being lynched. He also has an uncanny ability to think in the way that others are thinking and uses this to predict what actions they will take with a high degree of accuracy. I recently was scummates with Fonti and saw how she works behind the scenes. She is adept at perceiving the flow of the game and the various paths it could take. She was highly town read by virtually every player in that game through to the end.

I don't have a strong opinion on your approach to my slot so far. I am leaning town, but it could be easily reversed at this point. I don't think your misinterpretation of my initial post is necessarily alignment indicative. I think the most suspicious play you've made so far is the desire for Neapolitan to claim early. I think this is perhaps a lynchable offense.

I don't think the game I linked should change your opinion. If anything it should reinforce it. I believe I played differently, though there were some common features such as my meme read lists.

but that’s the whole point of what I’m saying, how did I ever react to it defensively? I made a joke back. My other read on you was nothing indicative of your initial post. That’s where I’m entirely confused as how I came off defensive, and that’s why I think he’s someone to keep an eye on.

and when did I say claim early, I said D2 depending on how N1 plays out only, but no later than D3. Do you see my reasoning why there? Late game cluster **** cause scum will 100% counter claim and make a mess of a late game. That’s 100% why I say this, and I don’t think there’s a valid counter argument to that. Do you see why I say this? Late game counter claims in MYLO is a damned mess, which with this game set up is something you heavily want to avoid. Just trying to negate a huge foreseeable problem. I’ve won games counter claiming a few times, which is why I heavily believe in avoi

Let me look back to what post of his I was referring to.

I like you better after your posting, but I still don’t understand the defenses of you for no forseeable reason.

 

[Chaco]

No. Xivii gets zero town points for tone and style. You should know this already after last game. Xivii is in the top 3 of dangerous players. Possibly #1.

Yeah this is gonna take my vote. Defense then distancing.

Unvote
Vote: BoomFrog

 

[Chaco]

Is Xivii's posting rate a bad thing? I don't understand how this vote follows from the statement above.

Xivii This post.

 

[fontisian]

No. Xivii gets zero town points for tone and style. You should know this already after last game. Xivii is in the top 3 of dangerous players. Possibly #1.

Different perspective, I think.

I'll keep your caution in mind.

 

[Xivii]

but that’s the whole point of what I’m saying, how did I ever react to it defensively? I made a joke back. My other read on you was nothing indicative of your initial post. That’s where I’m entirely confused as how I came off defensive, and that’s why I think he’s someone to keep an eye on.

and when did I say claim early, I said D2 depending on how N1 plays out only, but no later than D3. Do you see my reasoning why there? Late game cluster **** cause scum will 100% counter claim and make a mess of a late game. That’s 100% why I say this, and I don’t think there’s a valid counter argument to that. Do you see why I say this? Late game counter claims in MYLO is a damned mess, which with this game set up is something you heavily want to avoid. Just trying to negate a huge foreseeable problem. I’ve won games counter claiming a few times, which is why I heavily believe in avoi

Looking at it again, you're right it isn't defensive. I think it's more the fact that you clarified that you weren't lurking which seemed to imply that you took my point seriously.

I consider D2 to be early and I also don't think it's an issue waiting until it's absolutely necessary to claim. Day 3 may be a good day to do so. But in the meantime, I think it will be enough for Neap to just crumb their targets. The rest of the villagers should also fake crumb targets to confuse scum.

 

[Chaco]

Looking at it again, you're right it isn't defensive. I think it's more the fact that you clarified that you weren't lurking which seemed to imply that you took my point seriously.

I consider D2 to be early and I also don't think it's an issue waiting until it's absolutely necessary to claim. Day 3 may be a good day to do so. But in the meantime, I think it will be enough for Neap to just crumb their targets. The rest of the villagers should also fake crumb targets to confuse scum.

nah more tit for tat.

fair enough. I don’t exactly align with that, but like I said, how I feel overall with that heavily depends on the results of D1/N1

 

[Xivii]

I agree NSG's post is newbie not scummy. But I've seen LaserGuy pick at similar points that I disagreed with when he was town, so I'm not going to read much into it yet.

Can you provide an example of town!Laser picking at similar points?

Because this is to the contrary. LaserGuy has shown to be cognizant of newbie behaviors and their tendency to be lynched for things such as what he is pushing NSG for. Here are his words from his previous town game:

Congratulations! I dub you newbie Town.

Newbie Town is an archetype. There are a large number of people who, in their first few games in mafia as Town express very similar sorts of behaviours. Specifically, I would put the following as fairly standard hallmark features of newbie Town: 1) claiming early and unnecessarily; 2) assuming that anyone who tunnels them must be mafia and responding as such; 3) responding very awkwardly to pressure; 4) generally maintaining a low level of consistency. I have never seen a player with <5 games of experience expressing these behaviours not flip Town.

LaserGuy is one of the strongest town players and thinks layers deep. The nature of his push here, however, is surface-level. It is similar in nature to his push on Sabrar in Oasis here.

Chaco , BoomFrog's view on LaserGuy is what I was waiting for. He has a good deal of experience with LaserGuy and if he ought to see what I am seeing.

No. Xivii gets zero town points for tone and style. You should know this already after last game. Xivii is in the top 3 of dangerous players. Possibly #1.

I can't say I believe this attitude. There are many features of my play here which would be difficult to fake as scum. The nuance of my reads is highly indicative of town. I was open wolfing last game. Here I am open towning. You yourself said you are able to read me. I believe I have more than enough content to be town read. So what is your read on me? There, again, this is not a question I would ask you ask scum. I would be too afraid to have any confrontation with you. My alignment is easily distinguishable. I am town see.

 

[Darkpit54]

No. Xivii gets zero town points for tone and style. You should know this already after last game. Xivii is in the top 3 of dangerous players. Possibly #1.

Could you explain why you feel this way? Who would you say are the other top 2 dangerous players atm?

 

[Xivii]

The argument for the scum team is as follows:

LaserGuy

Fact: LaserGuy is a player that thinks deeply about motivations and intent. He also is cognizant of certain newbie behaviors that cause them to be incorrectly scum read, and has voiced being against pushing them for such behaviors.

Fact: LaserGuy is pushing a newbie player for a statement that is very likely to come from a newbie. It is also a statement that would be absurd for scum to state in public even if they did believe it.

Fact: Scum have to push players for things that are not genuine scum tells because they are informed of who is and who isn't scum.

Assumption: The only motivations a town player at this point in the game would have for pushing a player based on tells they don't believe in are a) seeing how that player responds to pressure, b) seeing how others react.

Fact: LaserGuy reaffirmed his suspicions of NSG in #45 after his inquiry ended.​

Inference: LaserGuy is not pushing NSG to see how he responds to pressure.​

​

Fact: LaserGuy has not asked any questions from anyone else with regard to NSG.​

Inference: LaserGuy is not looking to see how others react to his pressure.​

​

Conclusion: LaserGuy is not pushing NGS based on tells he doesn't believe for town motivated reasons.​

​

Inference: LaserGuy is scum.

NonSpecificGuy

Observation: Scum!LaserGuy is reluctant to push town players for newbie tells. This was seen in his previous scum game (Oasis Mafia) where he fence sat on his read of 3DS Ninja, who had been a popular wagon based on newbie statements, before ultimately declaring he would vote there.

Fact: LaserGuy is pushing NSG for a newbie statement.

Assumption: If LaserGuy knew the newbie player was actually scum, he wouldn't feel worried about pushing that player.

Inference: LaserGuy knows NSG is scum.


BoomFrog

Fact: BoomFrog stated that he does not find LaserGuy suspicious.

Assertion: BoomFrog has all of the experiences and capability necessary to have come to the same conclusion that I have on LaserGuy. Therefore, if BoomFrog was town, he would have the same suspicions of LaserGuy as I do.

Inference: BoomFrog is deliberately keeping his read on LaserGuy concealed for town motivated reasons or BoomFrog is scum.


FrozenFlame

Fact: Frozen had mentioned every player who had been involved in a game relevant event so far other than LaserGuy and NGS.

Fact: I have been pushing LaserGuy and NGS.

Hypothesis: If LaserGuy and NGS are partners, and a town player was pushing them, the third scummate would be inclined to avoid engaging in that discussion and wait things out before commenting.

Justification: I've previously pushed a scum player and their partner did just this.​

​

Inference: FrozenFlame is possibly LaserGuy's and NSG's scummate.

​

At minimum, 1 of these is correct (LaserGuy). It is highly likely that at least 2 of them are correct. And somewhat likely at least 3 of them are correct. It also assumes that LaserGuy is mafia and not a traitor. In the event that he traitor, the case on FrozenFlame would be invalidated. It would also increase the chance that BoomFrog is mafia because him not perceiving LaserGuy as scummy would likely be coming from being informed that LaserGuy is not mafia.

 

[Chaco]

Xivii Outside of prior experiences and understanding play styles of those in here, what were you looking for there exactly? (In regards to Boomfrogs opinion on laserguy)

 

[Xivii]

That is a wall of text that is not capable of coming from scum this early in the game. Why on earth would scum put so much effort? I will return in a few days or whenever the prod deadline permits.

@ Chaco, I believe my wall should address your inquiry.

 

[Chaco]

it does. You were posting while I was.

The argument for the scum team is as follows:

LaserGuy

Fact: LaserGuy is a player that thinks deeply about motivations and intent. He also is cognizant of certain newbie behaviors that cause them to be incorrectly scum read, and has voiced being against pushing them for such behaviors.

Fact: LaserGuy is pushing a newbie player for a statement that is very likely to come from a newbie. It is also a statement that would be absurd for scum to state in public even if they did believe it.

Fact: Scum have to push players for things that are not genuine scum tells because they are informed of who is and who isn't scum.

Assumption: The only motivations a town player at this point in the game would have for pushing a player based on tells they don't believe in are a) seeing how that player responds to pressure, b) seeing how others react.

Fact: LaserGuy reaffirmed his suspicions of NSG in #45 after his inquiry ended.​

Inference: LaserGuy is not pushing NSG to see how he responds to pressure.​

​

Fact: LaserGuy has not asked any questions from anyone else with regard to NSG.​

Inference: LaserGuy is not looking to see how others react to his pressure.​

​

Conclusion: LaserGuy is not pushing NGS based on tells he doesn't believe for town motivated reasons.​

​

Inference: LaserGuy is scum.

NonSpecificGuy

Observation: Scum!LaserGuy is reluctant to push town players for newbie tells. This was seen in his previous scum game (Oasis Mafia) where he fence sat on his read of 3DS Ninja, who had been a popular wagon based on newbie statements, before ultimately declaring he would vote there.

Fact: LaserGuy is pushing NSG for a newbie statement.

Assumption: If LaserGuy knew the newbie player was actually scum, he wouldn't feel worried about pushing that player.

Inference: LaserGuy knows NSG is scum.


BoomFrog

Fact: BoomFrog stated that he does not find LaserGuy suspicious.

Assertion: BoomFrog has all of the experiences and capability necessary to have come to the same conclusion that I have on LaserGuy. Therefore, if BoomFrog was town, he would have the same suspicions of LaserGuy as I do.

Inference: BoomFrog is deliberately keeping his read on LaserGuy concealed for town motivated reasons or BoomFrog is scum.


FrozenFlame

Fact: Frozen had mentioned every player who had been involved in a game relevant event so far other than LaserGuy and NGS.

Fact: I have been pushing LaserGuy and NGS.

Hypothesis: If LaserGuy and NGS are partners, and a town player was pushing them, the third scummate would be inclined to avoid engaging in that discussion and wait things out before commenting.

Justification: I've previously pushed a scum player and their partner did just this.​

​

Inference: FrozenFlame is possibly LaserGuy's and NSG's scummate.

​

At minimum, 1 of these is correct (LaserGuy). It is highly likely that at least 2 of them are correct. And somewhat likely at least 3 of them are correct. It also assumes that LaserGuy is mafia and not a traitor. In the event that he traitor, the case on FrozenFlame would be invalidated. It would also increase the chance that BoomFrog is mafia because him not perceiving LaserGuy as scummy would likely be coming from being informed that LaserGuy is not mafia.

We are both on BoomFrog for two differing reasons. I just see him as kind’ve limited in how he will push. He made assertions towards me regarding you, and then later pushed back against you. Not sure of the connection there. But I see something there. Not sure if it’s one sided coming from BoomFrog. I agree with Frozens sentiment if Raxx’s defense of you early on as well. So my thought process would be as follows, BoomFrog as scum would lead me to Raxx with a common denominator being you. Now, is that to creating a false tie to scape, or would you be the scum buddy. Outside of that connection, Raxx doesn’t throw anything off to me. That’s the only common thing I’ve seen between the two.

Overall though I feel better about your playerslot with the increased activity in a way that’s beneficial. It’s leaving stances that won’t leave you wiggle room as you are laying out while thought processes. So honestly, it’ll be easy to nail you to the wall if you are tied in.

Frozen hasn’t posted enough for me to really see what’s in his head. But afaik and can remember, pretty typical of his play style early on. He’s not a huge poster if I remember right? But I’m interested to see how we progress.

3DSNinja needs to put some thoughts in or gtfo. That whole I’m fearful of getting lynched or killed D1/N1 is just dumb to me. Like that doesn’t do anything for anyone other than waste space and leave questions about his slot.

jackrito is unknown to me.

NSG is still unknown to me to, haven’t seen enough.

I like somitomo rn.

Laserguy I need to look back at in iso to see where I stand on him.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

There’s two tales that I’ve noticed that people have been pointed out. Since this is my first hame with you guys I’m just going to go off of what others have said but Xiivi has been apparently uncharacteristically active this game which could give off scum vibes.

Then again, laser guys insistence on me being scum makes me think that they’re trying to pick off people that maybe not a lot of people are familiar with first as to seem like he’s being proactive. But I think he could be scum.

Either way I’m going to

Vote: LaserGuy

I dunno with how aggressively the lynching has been between different people it makes me think that we’re all just looking for that one person to make an obvious blunder.

 

[Darkpit54]

The argument for the scum team is as follows:

LaserGuy

Fact: LaserGuy is a player that thinks deeply about motivations and intent. He also is cognizant of certain newbie behaviors that cause them to be incorrectly scum read, and has voiced being against pushing them for such behaviors.

Fact: LaserGuy is pushing a newbie player for a statement that is very likely to come from a newbie. It is also a statement that would be absurd for scum to state in public even if they did believe it.

Fact: Scum have to push players for things that are not genuine scum tells because they are informed of who is and who isn't scum.

Assumption: The only motivations a town player at this point in the game would have for pushing a player based on tells they don't believe in are a) seeing how that player responds to pressure, b) seeing how others react.

Fact: LaserGuy reaffirmed his suspicions of NSG in #45 after his inquiry ended.​

Inference: LaserGuy is not pushing NSG to see how he responds to pressure.​

​

Fact: LaserGuy has not asked any questions from anyone else with regard to NSG.​

Inference: LaserGuy is not looking to see how others react to his pressure.​

Conclusion: LaserGuy is not pushing NGS based on tells he doesn't believe for town motivated reasons.​

​

Inference: LaserGuy is scum.

NonSpecificGuy

Observation: Scum!LaserGuy is reluctant to push town players for newbie tells. This was seen in his previous scum game (Oasis Mafia) where he fence sat on his read of 3DS Ninja, who had been a popular wagon based on newbie statements, before ultimately declaring he would vote there.

Fact: LaserGuy is pushing NSG for a newbie statement.

Assumption: If LaserGuy knew the newbie player was actually scum, he wouldn't feel worried about pushing that player.

Inference: LaserGuy knows NSG is scum.

FrozenFlame

Fact: Frozen had mentioned every player who had been involved in a game relevant event so far other than LaserGuy and NGS.

Fact: I have been pushing LaserGuy and NGS.

Hypothesis: If LaserGuy and NGS are partners, and a town player was pushing them, the third scummate would be inclined to avoid engaging in that discussion and wait things out before commenting.

Justification: I've previously pushed a scum player and their partner did just this.​

​

Inference: FrozenFlame is possibly LaserGuy's and NSG's scummate

I understand your argument for LaserGuy and it makes a ton of sense, but I'm confused by the part about NSG. Wouldn't LaserGuy have more incentive to push NSG if he were townie, to cause a mislynch? Please let me know if I'm missing something though.

It is interesting that NSG voted LaserGuy immediately after you accused them of being scummates, but I feel that that could just be due to the other information you just put forward.

Spoiler: Unrelated

Quoting huge quotes on mobile causes so much lag

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

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