Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[LaserGuy]

Trisscar Ninja means that the person who delivers the kill cannot be detected by watchers, trackers, etc. It isn't a separate role, just an added ability.

 

[fontisian]

Your play feels very natural and logical. You're obviously spending a lot of time thinking about and analysing the thread. I don't have any specific towntells on you, but you tick the boxes of all the things that I look for in good Town. I'm aware that everything you've done so far is probably within your scum range based on what I saw in Sumting Sumting, so I can't give you more than a Town lean without more information. On the other hand, I also don't want to put too much stock in using that game for meta on you due to other issues I had with your slot unrelated to your play.

somitomi is mostly a meta read. I've played with him a fair bit on xkcd before. As Town he's usually very cautious in making reads and evaluations of people, but this shouldn't be taken as a sign of scumminess, especially not this early in the game. It takes him some time to figure things out. He tends to struggle a lot more as mafia and is usually quite transparent.

I assume you mean you already thought my slot was mafia, so it's hard to know how you would have reacted to me as scum in more neutral circumstances.

Thank you for the somi meta, it helps clarify that what I didn't like about #133 (the sort of one-step removed perspective) isn't scum indicative for him. I did like this:

I have to say, Xivii's explicit "look at me, I'm so town" remarks are mildly concerning. I'm not sure what mafia would hope to achieve with this, but good wine needs no bush.

I don't have any good reasons for liking, it just feels like something a town would think in somi's spot.

Thanks for the scum game, Jackrito , I'm checking it out. Quick question, what was the point of Laser's posting gimmick (the emojis) at the beginning of that game? Laser can feel free to answer this as well.

 

[Trisscar]

Trisscar Ninja means that the person who delivers the kill cannot be detected by watchers, trackers, etc. It isn't a separate role, just an added ability.

....huh, aight

 

[LaserGuy]

I assume you mean you already thought my slot was mafia, so it's hard to know how you would have reacted to me as scum in more neutral circumstances.

No, following the end of day incident I assumed you were locktown as did, I think, basically everyone else.

Thanks for the scum game, Jackrito Jackrito , I'm checking it out. Quick question, what was the point of Laser's posting gimmick (the emojis) at the beginning of that game? Laser can feel free to answer this as well.

I go over the whole thing in detail in #132 and in a few other places in the thread. I think pretty much all of the theory I talk about there, as well as the reads I generated, were essentially legitimate as this is something that BoomFrog did on several occasions at xkcd and if I tried to fudge anything he would have busted me on the spot. I was intending on doing this regardless of my alignment, though I think it worked out reasonably well for me as mafia since I was able to ride a decent amount of townie credit off of that one post.

 

[Darkpit54]

Darkpit54 Pretty sure the vote on me from Jackrito was a joke. I could be wrong 'course, but Jack hasn't said anything about it since so.

That was my interpretation of it as well. That's why I'm confused by Xivii's analysis of it making Jackrito part of the "core town" after that post alone

 

[Chaco]

Still pondering how mech heavy this game should be in terms of claiming things. Fonti's post was also addressed by others who gave their own opinion, which I then responded to as part of a conversation. Suspect I might be treating this like a discord thread too much in that regard if it's prickling at you though.

........mmm planning time it seems.

Ok we have three town power roles (not sure if visitor counts, but it does at least do things i suppose?) out of... 7-12 town members.
Three guaranteed mafia, and 0-1 traitors.
Not sure if the ninja is a solo NeutK or what, don't recognize the role. I'll treat it as such for this post though.
13 players. At least 3 are wolves. At least 3 are town power. That leaves 7 un-guaranteed slots.
If we have a Ninja, that means we have 6 slots, one of which could be traitor but the rest are unavoidably town.
That means maf has a 1 in 3 (?) shot of hitting a town power role at night, or so.
Goon is the only role with a kill at all on maf side as per https://www.mafiacolosseum.com/threads/mafia-colosseum-basic-roles.299/ :
"Mafia Goon (Vanilla) - No abilities other than Mafia chat and factional kill."
So maf theoretically has only one kill per night.
Ninja may have another, though I'm uncertain.

We have no protective roles anywhere, and the only roleblocking is on the maf side.
Therefore town power roles should not claim, because our greatest strength right now is a target rich environment. VT's should be doing their best to give maf no idea which role they actually are, or faking them out. VT's are the meat shields here.

I'm honestly not certain that we should have a claimfest D2. Or D3, if the two masons don't find anything overly useful.
I do think, that if someone claims one of the mason or Neo roles, that counterclaims should be immediate, and whoever claimed first is susp, at least for D2. The chances of finding anything overly useful here the first night are rather slim, it would seem to be better to hold onto that information despite possible tracking of behavior (at least till more information is obtained), and I would consider such a thing to be an attempt to fake claim.

Ninja would be hidden kill per mafia faction I believe. But how many shots is the question I think from I gather from the setup. I think that’s what faction means there. I don’t think they would have a however limited shot Ninja SK in this setup?? Cause if so, this game is not town sided at all. I see traitor as more likely just due to the numbers game here. Which speaking of which, it kindve bugs me that Xivii listed 4 possible scum, when only 3 are confirmed...

 

[Chaco]

Mmmm...
Some of their logic is nonsense, they're drawing a lot of info for early D1, and they're experienced as a scum player. These do not match. Makes me think a plan is involved.

Looking back I either love this or hate it, not sure which yet cause of how it’s worded. But I do agree with this as I’ve thought more. Listing 4 possible scum is kindve a tell in itself or am I looking to hard at that?

 

[Jackrito]

I assume you mean you already thought my slot was mafia, so it's hard to know how you would have reacted to me as scum in more neutral circumstances.

Thank you for the somi meta, it helps clarify that what I didn't like about #133 (the sort of one-step removed perspective) isn't scum indicative for him. I did like this:

I don't have any good reasons for liking, it just feels like something a town would think in somi's spot.

Thanks for the scum game, Jackrito , I'm checking it out. Quick question, what was the point of Laser's posting gimmick (the emojis) at the beginning of that game? Laser can feel free to answer this as well.

I have no idea it got me so much heat though because he never told me about it. So I just reacted normally to it. I think he explained it later in game, but can't remember the reason no.

 

[Xivii]

I will return in a few days or whenever the prod deadline permits.

Oh woah, I just checked the prod deadline and it's 24 hours.

 

[Darkpit54]

Listing 4 possible scum is kindve a tell in itself or am I looking to hard at that?

I interpreted it as simply leaving the options open rather than stating "these are three scum", as he seemed somewhat unsure about whether the last two were, but I could be wrong. Could you explain what struck you as scummy about this?

 

[Chaco]

I interpreted it as simply leaving the options open rather than stating "these are three scum", as he seemed somewhat unsure about whether the last two were, but I could be wrong. Could you explain what struck you as scummy about this?

the fact that he listed 4 just kind’ve sat weird with me, like I said could be nothing. Just kindve looking at that. I looked back at it and it doesn’t look as bad. (Cause of the wording at the end where he said at least 3 of these) I was going off of memory beforehand, but depending on how my read progresses on him, it definitely could be useful later.

It was more of a is this inside information manifesting type post

 

[Xivii]

Besides it'd be in xkcd. Yes I did consider last game as you quoted, but I've seen him go the other way too.

This doesn't seem to address my case and the fact that his play here is contradictory to how he treats newbies. It leads me to suspect that you're informed that he isn't mafia.

As there were last game, so difficult, yes, but provably within your capabilities. Which you know, so you have no justification to claim I'm being unreasonable. You snowed everyone last game and as mafia got a perfect win. The reward is a very high bar to prove towniness in the future. You know that.

Yes, but take away my AtE and you would have easily seen I was scum. As Ran and Jack did. My play here, however, is very townie.

But you seem to be sincere and are using them to strengthen a scum read of me?

I don't recall it being a factor in scum reading you. That being said, the last time you praised me, you were indeed scum. I ask again, as you have not answered: you said you can read me, but you're also claiming that I can't be read from my content. So which is it?

Your typos are making you hard to follow sometimes.

What was hard to follow?

 

[Darkpit54]

the fact that he listed 4 just kind’ve sat weird with me, like I said could be nothing. Just kindve looking at that. I looked back at it and it doesn’t look as bad. (Cause of the wording at the end where he said at least 3 of these) I was going off of memory beforehand, but depending on how my read progresses on him, it definitely could be useful later.

It was more of a is this inside information manifesting type post

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for explaining

 

[Xivii]

Jackrito Can you link me to your most recent scum game?

Why did you ask for this at that point in time?

I feel that there's some context here that you're ignoring. You're looking at this game's post #22 where there is virtually no content.

Even that early in the game, I don't believe you actually think he didn't realize that as scum he should keep scum objectives private. No new player with average reasoning ability would speak to the thread as if everyone else were scum.

This is IMHO where the main problem in your whole argument lies. I don't consider a POV slip to be a newbie behaviour.

Fair enough, but the fact that you see that particular statement as scum indicative at all is the problem.

 

[fontisian]

Why did you ask for this at that point in time?

I can't get too into this without talking about on an ongoing game, but I'm working on a mood read on Jack and I need to check out a scum game to see if it's valid. The post where he told you off for calling him town reminded me of it.

Why do you ask?

I think Trisscar not realizing that scum roles besides the goon can carry the factional kill could be a townslip.

 

[Xivii]

Flowed, is I believe the past tense of the flow of a river or what have you.

Ah thanks. English isn't hard at all.

Not that I object to it, but why did you put me in your town core?

You seem pure.

Lol.

Aight, I'll just mark you down as the towniest town to ever town.

Why is this townie?

Is there a reason your language is more truncated than usual? You seem to be holding back.

Can you provide examples of how she is being more truncated than usual? This was the thing I noticed most about her in the previous game.

Xivii Xivii what was your reasoning for putting Jackrito as part of the core town? What about their post gave you such a strong townie impression? I'm somewhat confused about how you drew that conclusion

Jack is incredibly easy for me to read after seeing his play from three different perspectives. As scum, he wouldn't have naked voted and dipped. His play since then reaffirms my read. I'd say he is my most confident town read.

I'm stopping here for now. I will return later.

 

[fontisian]

I think the whole "I'm hiding how I read people, and it will be secret weapon to win the game!" attitude Chaco was expressing comes from town way more often than not.

I'll find some examples for the Trisscar thing. I felt like she was pretty wordy last gane, though, and was just posting shorter sentences with cut off thoughts here. I could be misremembering last game though, and truncated thoughts aren't necessarily scummy.

 

[fontisian]

I agree with Xivii, Jack's recent bursts of posts were towny. This will probably freak him out, heh.

 

[Jackrito]

I agree with Xivii, Jack's recent bursts of posts were towny. This will probably freak him out, heh.

It should tbh but my scum play and town play lately is night and day, I don't feel like tinfoiling you out of early fear, because you pocketed me just yet either.

 

[Trisscar]

Ah thanks. English isn't hard at all.

Lol, nope not in the slightest, it's totally not a language that ignores it's own rules half the time and mugs other languages in back alleys for their adverbs.

 

[Chaco]

How many games have you played Darkpit54 ?

 

[BoomFrog]

Boom, Laser, can we talk about why you two are voting for Chaco? Does the original reasoning about him looking at things from a mafiaish perspective still apply, or has the read changed?

I'm getting to it, but the vote is stale. I need to get my thoughts together, but I think I'm still net scum lean on Chaco.

I ask again, as you have not answered: you said you can read me, but you're also claiming that I can't be read from my content. So which is it?

I don't think I can read you D1.

 

[Darkpit54]

How many games have you played Darkpit54 ?

One other on here, a couple years ago:
https://smashboards.com/threads/may...it-break-like-so-many-crumbling-oreos.458248/

I could've sworn I'd played more here, but that's all I could find so I guess not lol. I've played a few more on PokeCommunity. This is my first in recent years though

 

[BoomFrog]

Didn't have time to sit at a computer but I'll try and make this work on mobile. First, the timeline:

Chaco - scum (lurking)

funny you said lurking, my psn tag has lurkin in it. Lol. But nah, not lurking.

xivii posts a lot and seems to be up in everything, but I don’t know how anyone plays here except Frozenflame and that’s been years.

Vote: Xivii

Vote Chaco

Overly defensive about lurking, and votes the one guy who is participating most, which is maximizing the jokeness of the vote and minimizing the chance to start scum hunting

So you don’t find it off Xivii completely ignores the fact I call him out for being into everything, after being into everything? Generally speaking when someone chooses to ignore any look to them after feigning so much activity, that’s a scum tell. I don’t see anything logical about his play thus far.

Second , it’s hard to decipher dumb/scum due to the way he’s currently playing. Relatively most of what he’s posted is fluff.

Third, game opened up 3 hours after I last viewed the thread cause I moved houses yesterday... how would I be lurking at 1pm when game wasn’t open then? It’s okay though to make a jab at a player you have no idea how they play, but that’s a reach at best.

FoS: Boomfrog
Insta defense of Xivii while crediting his word as fact.

So, to explain my perspective when I voted. Xivii's opener is clearly 100% a joke. I think we all got that immediately. But you still felt the need to point out that you weren't really lurking. That's overly defensive. And the main purpose of RVS is to engage with someone about something. Xivii was interacting with everyone, everything and several imaginary things. There is zero need to try and engage him more. Putting your vote there is a waste of an opportunity to engage with someone else. Thus, you are not actually looking to scum hunt, just going through the motions of participation.

Now to your follow up. You started spamming posts and engaged with everything you could. That feels like you are sincerely worried about the lurker accusation and are trying to disprove it. But as you said, it was initially ridiculous, I think a town mindset would have brushed it off, not gotten worried. However, this obviously varies from player to player and I don't know you. But I still think it's more likely to come from scum.

I do like Fontaine's point in favor of Chaco. But in total I'm still at a scum lean. But, it is a mild scum lean and I will probably find someone better to vote for soon. But I might come back here if none else sticks out.

 

[BoomFrog]

This doesn't seem to address my case and the fact that his play here is contradictory to how he treats newbies. It leads me to suspect that you're informed that he isn't mafia.

LaserGuy likes to read deeply into minor things. He goes the wrong way with it a lot of the time though. I can imagine him having either perspective on the issue. It was obvious what answer you expected me to have to your question. If I was mafia I could easily have agreed with you that LG was acting scummy and apparently gotten townie credit for it too.

What was hard to follow

This feels high effort and kiss value for me to go back over his posts and quote typos. I just had to reread what he wrote once or twice. Do you really want me spend time to answer this?

 

[BoomFrog]

This feels high effort and kiss value

High effort and low* value...

 

[Xivii]

This feels high effort and kiss value for me to go back over his posts and quote typos. I just had to reread what he wrote once or twice. Do you really want me spend time to answer this?

Yes.

 

[Xivii]

Request Ninja Prod if it's available.

 

[Xivii]

Townies tend to police activity in order to maintain a healthy game state.

 

[Chaco]

Didn't have time to sit at a computer but I'll try and make this work on mobile. First, the timeline:








So, to explain my perspective when I voted. Xivii's opener is clearly 100% a joke. I think we all got that immediately. But you still felt the need to point out that you weren't really lurking. That's overly defensive. And the main purpose of RVS is to engage with someone about something. Xivii was interacting with everyone, everything and several imaginary things. There is zero need to try and engage him more. Putting your vote there is a waste of an opportunity to engage with someone else. Thus, you are not actually looking to scum hunt, just going through the motions of participation.

Now to your follow up. You started spamming posts and engaged with everything you could. That feels like you are sincerely worried about the lurker accusation and are trying to disprove it. But as you said, it was initially ridiculous, I think a town mindset would have brushed it off, not gotten worried. However, this obviously varies from player to player and I don't know you. But I still think it's more likely to come from scum.

I do like Fontaine's point in favor of Chaco. But in total I'm still at a scum lean. But, it is a mild scum lean and I will probably find someone better to vote for soon. But I might come back here if none else sticks out.

But thing is and was, does that really matter? You’re nitpicking something so minuscule that literally did not matter and still does not. My response to him was a joke back. My vote on him however was not. So aside from the fact you say I get defensive over a joke, and only began to look at seriously when you got defensive of him, my other point in your eyes is activity? You can go back and find my activity levels regardless of faction In games during my active mafia stage, if you’d like, before like took a hit. Cause basically that argument would be meta, when you have no basis to go off of for me. Which I will give you credit that you say that. What irks me most about your post is even after all that, you leave a back door. If you think I’m scum, gun for me. Don’t be like, “I think I might find someone better.”

There’s nothing about what you’ve said that couldn’t be taken back later. And honestly that’s just another red flag for me about you.

 

[Chaco]

And before you cite me for being defensive again, I always respond to everything in regards to my slot.

 

[Chaco]

One other on here, a couple years ago:
https://smashboards.com/threads/may...it-break-like-so-many-crumbling-oreos.458248/

I could've sworn I'd played more here, but that's all I could find so I guess not lol. I've played a few more on PokeCommunity. This is my first in recent years though

Did you gather much experience in those games or would you still consider yourself a newer player?

 

[Darkpit54]

Did you gather much experience in those games or would you still consider yourself a newer player?

I'd like to think I picked up enough to have a fairly good understanding of the game, but I'm definitely still a newer player.

 

[BoomFrog]

my other point in your eyes is activity?

Did you get extra active and post a bunch more right after I voted for you then get relaxed and post less?

 

[Chaco]

Did you get extra active and post a bunch more right after I voted for you then get relaxed and post less?

I think my activity has been fairly constant through out the thread with my thoughts and opinions in most all things happening, or do you disagree with that?

 

[Chaco]

I'd like to think I picked up enough to have a fairly good understanding of the game, but I'm definitely still a newer player.

Gotcha. I was just wondering cause of how you interact with other players. Nothing negative, just noticed a lot clarifications and thanking others and the like. Which let me reinforce, that isn’t bad at all, I was merely asking to understand better.

 

[Chaco]

I’m gonna out some of my thought process here. I’ve been looking heavily at connections and reactions to certain players. Reason I’m looking so heavily at knee jerks, distancing, defensiveness is the likelihood of a traitor in this setup.

It weakens scum with that 4th man because they have to a) gamble on if there is or isn’t one, and can potentially kill their scum mate
B) the traitor has to some extent play bad townie if there is one, cause if it’s a traditional traitor, he/she knows who their scummates are. (they faction just doesn’t know the traitor, for anyone needing clarification)

Connections matter in this game a lot and reading them is key here imo. Individual slips are not as consequential to me as defenses of other players and distancing or leaving open reads that are easily backed off of.

Metaing this set up is hard, but a 4 man scum team against 9 town is tough. But the ability to NK their 4th if their is one, is a heavy balancing tool and kindve a mind screw.

 

[BoomFrog]

I think my activity has been fairly constant through out the thread with my thoughts and opinions in most all things happening, or do you disagree with that?

I did, but I believe you now. If you had and I'd called you out so explicitly then I expect you would have admitted it but justified it, not completely disagreed.

If you think I’m scum, gun for me. Don’t be like, “I think I might find someone better.”

Call it a difference in style. A random person is like, 30% likely to be scum. I can have a scum lean on you and feel like you are 50% to be scum, but that's still a good chance that you are town. I'm not going to gun for your execution, I want to engage with others and see if I can find someone "better". But if I had to pick right now, yeah, probably you. Although I do like your recent posts so more like 40% chance of scum right now.

 

[BoomFrog]

Townies tend to police activity in order to maintain a healthy game state.

Here's my initial reaction:

Can you please just stop? Yes, we get it, you are acting very townie. And obviously you are self aware about it which is why you get zero credit for it. Spilling wine on every thing you do is not helping me get a read on you.

Post processing reaction:
This Xivii is outside my expectations of either town or scum Xivii. That does not give me the confidence to have a strong town read on you. But I think the most likely case is you are trying to get a reaction out of me to get a read on me and that does earn you a slight town lean. But very slight. We both have multilayered play and I don't know what layer you are on.

Anyway, good luck parsing anything alignment indicative out of this reaction.

P.S. LaserGuy will find this post townie.

 

[Chaco]

Here's my initial reaction:

Can you please just stop? Yes, we get it, you are acting very townie. And obviously you are self aware about it which is why you get zero credit for it. Spilling wine on every thing you do is not helping me get a read on you.

Post processing reaction:
This Xivii is outside my expectations of either town or scum Xivii. That does not give me the confidence to have a strong town read on you. But I think the most likely case is you are trying to get a reaction out of me to get a read on me and that does earn you a slight town lean. But very slight. We both have multilayered play and I don't know what layer you are on.

Anyway, good luck parsing anything alignment indicative out of this reaction.

P.S. LaserGuy will find this post townie.

Is the reason you act like this towards Xivii as a player due to Sumting?