Mewtwo's up throw kill %

[XalchemistX]

This was tested in the center of Final D with a lvl 9 cpu. The results isn't 100% accurate

 

[XalchemistX]

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Haha what good timing, I was going to spend some time this weekend testing this exact thing lol

 

[Ryztiq]

Pichu lasted longer than I thought, well done!

 

[Zoa]

I tried this out on some CPUs the other day, and got different results. Like 119% on ZSS. Is this with no DI, or is it factored in at a slight angle, etc.? It seems his up throw only factors in fall speed instead of adding weight, too.

 

[XalchemistX]

I tried this out on some CPUs the other day, and got different results. Like 119% on ZSS. Is this with no DI, or is it factored in at a slight angle, etc.? It seems his up throw only factors in fall speed instead of adding weight, too.

The blue on the graph is without DI and the red is with DI. The up throw at 119% kills ZZS without DI

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I tried this out on some CPUs the other day, and got different results. Like 119% on ZSS.

Which is exactly the same number that OP got for ZSS with no DI.

Not sure what you're confused about lol

 

[Zoa]

My bad. I normally have better reading comprehension than this. I've been having brain farts all day, and just getting off my shift didn't help any. >.<

Edit: Does anyone know if there's a place with P:M weight, fall speed, etc. for 3.0? Can't find anything.

 

[XalchemistX]

Interesting notes:

survives at a higher % than .

is heavier than


and doesn't need to DI to survive


and have about the same kill % with DI


has OP DI

 

[Zoa]

Interesting notes:

survives at a higher % than .

is heavier than


and doesn't need to DI to survive


and have about the same kill % with DI


has OP DI

As in regards to fall speed only, or with weight tacked on? I believe M2 uthrow only factors in fall speed for kills because of other tests I performed.

I did this with Lucario uncharged usmash with all hits and no DI. This is all from memory, so some is a bit inaccurate and not all together. I'll have to test tomorrow and post my results. The percent posted is before the first hit of usmash connects (not the final one). The percent it KOs at is pretty noticeable between characters, so that's why it was my test usmash.

Lucario: 107%
Link: 112%
Mewtwo: 97%
ZSS: 99%
Samus: 100%
Bowser: 115%
Falco: 125%
Captain Falcon: 133%
Mario: 93%

The Mario, Bowser, and Falco ones I'm not 100% sure on, but they're very close if not accurate (off by 1-2%).

 

[XalchemistX]

Still not sure if the up throw only factors in fall speed, but I forgot to mention that can survive more efficiently without DI!!!

 

[DrinkingFood]

Throws factor in only fall speed. Instead of weight affecting the final knockback, weight affects the duration of throws (both during the throwing animation and its endlag), making them easier to react to for DI for heavy characters, and harder to follow up on heavy characters due to increased endlag.
Also, your graphs are off. The first one measures from 80 to 180 and the second from -20 to 180, distorting the size of the bars. It's kinda awkward to look at, is all. Requesting you either remove Pichu so the program you're using doesn't automatically adjust the parameters for the graph, or that you manually go in and change the settings so the first half of the graph also goes from -20 to 180.

 

[XalchemistX]

Throws factor in only fall speed. Instead of weight affecting the final knockback, weight affects the duration of throws (both during the throwing animation and its endlag), making them easier to react to for DI for heavy characters, and harder to follow up on heavy characters due to increased endlag.
Also, your graphs are off. The first one measures from 80 to 180 and the second from -20 to 180, distorting the size of the bars. It's kinda awkward to look at, is all. Requesting you either remove Pichu so the program you're using doesn't automatically adjust the parameters for the graph, or that you manually go in and change the settings so the first half of the graph also goes from -20 to 180.

I noticed the -20 a while ago. I might change it latter, but I'll keep it up for a bit for the lulz.
Thanks for analyzing the throws more accurately

 

[Zoa]

Throws factor in only fall speed. Instead of weight affecting the final knockback, weight affects the duration of throws (both during the throwing animation and its endlag), making them easier to react to for DI for heavy characters, and harder to follow up on heavy characters due to increased endlag.

Thanks for the info on throws. That answers a lot of questions.

 

[McNinja]

Dang. Great stuff! Thanks for putting the time into this.

 

[xXSciophobiaXx]

Hey. Thanks for doing this. Its actually quite helpful. This essentially means to me that I should be Uthrowing lots of light-medium weight characters at about 110-120 for kills. obviously the very lightest characters it will help to memorize the percents.

A couple questions. Do you know what it is about the specific characters/factors that cause the anomalies noticed from the trends? Like, how does DI make DDD die earlier? What is it about certain characters that makes DI help to a high degree to no effect, to negative effect (DDD)?

 

[teluoborg]

Hum some of this seems a bit off, especially the characters that don't live longer by DIing.

Care to share the exact method you used to get those numbers ?

 

[XalchemistX]

I don't know the factors that makes dedede survive longer without DI. The without DI data was collected by turning attack off on training mode on a cpu, and the with DI data was collcted by turning on attack with a lvl 9 cpu. It was repeated about 3 times for accuracy.

 

[teluoborg]

Ok so I'm sorry for the hard work you put through but CPUs on attack are not a reliable way to test DI :/
The "without DI data" still works though, so it's always good to keep that. Maybe you can precise if the percentage written is before or after applying the 12% of the Uthrow ?

In order to have the real "with DI" numbers you'll need a second controller and you'll have to put the cpu on control, then have the stick on the second controller locked on either right or left.

With this technique I've had DDD die at 120% without DI and 130% with DI.
For Ganon I have 117% no DI and 126% DI.
All percentages before applying Uthrow damage.

 

[Strong Badam]

is heavier than

*falls more quickly

Throws ignore weight in the knockback calculation, so vertically KOing throws KO at percents based only on the victim's falling speed acceleration and terminal velocity.

 

[Praxis]

I don't know the factors that makes dedede survive longer without DI. The without DI data was collected by turning attack off on training mode on a cpu, and the with DI data was collcted by turning on attack with a lvl 9 cpu. It was repeated about 3 times for accuracy.

The DI data is wrong then, sorry to break it to you; there's no way to know what the CPUs were doing. They do not necessarily DI correctly.

 

[XalchemistX]

The DI data is wrong then, sorry to break it to you; there's no way to know what the CPUs were doing. They do not necessarily DI correctly.

I know. The DI data needs to be tested again with an actual player DI

 

[210stuna]

Jiggs - 84%

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