Data Mewtwo Hitbox Visualization

[DanGR]

Bair's initial hitbox:

Good stuff Furil

 

[Chiroz]

Mewtwo's model is gorgeous, goddamn.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Reflect box is from 12-35

xoxo

Edit: I updated Mewtwo's page to clarify.

 

[Downshift]

Hm.. It is technically a throw.
What's interesting is if I read it like a grabbox, then I get this: http://i.imgur.com/oKrIyRI.gif
I'm not sure what they are, but they look to be in the correct spot (maybe not correct size?), so I don't know. Maybe one is the reflect and one is the throw?

That's perfect, thanks!

Yeah, Disable is a projectile so I don't think we can see that move, but I'll keep my fingers crossed for Lucario's and Zelda's hitbox visualizations.

 

[Mr. B]

Mewtwo's model is gorgeous, goddamn.

I never noticed before... He has a seam down his centre, like a stuffed toy.

 

[Chiroz]

I never noticed before... He has a seam down his centre, like a stuffed toy.

I think it might be the lighting reflecting on his tail. I might be wrong though, but that would be a huge mistake on the modelers part, lol.

 

[Lazerpants]

thats awesome dude, great work!

 

[Bowserboy3]

As user DanGR pointed out, this is Bair's initial hitbox (frame 13):

This is a good hitbox in reality, though seeing as this is the first active frame of the move, I think I can understand why people got/get all eat up about it.

There is a big area right below Mewtwo, which on a lot of grounded characters, can cause the move to miss. Doesn't mean the move's hitboxes are bad, it's just that their timing could be improved.

I wondered what the move would look like on frame 12; I wondered whether it would fix this problem. Behold my MS Paint skills!...

This is (sorta) what the move would look like on frame 12. The tip of Mewtwo's tail would be closer to the ground, enabling it to hit opponent's closer to the ground out of a short hop. I think, that if the move was like I suggest, misconceptions about the move would have never been conjured up. People see an issue/slight problem like this and assume the whole move is bad, when in reality, it's not. The move itself is good as it is; it's hitboxes are solid. However, I think with hitboxes on frame 12 like this, the move would become a whole lot better (for reference, the move came out on frame 12 in Melee too, though not sure if the hitboxes were like this).

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Not sure if I would describe that as a deadzone. (Yes I see you've put it in quotation marks)

A deadzone is like when Shulk used to be able to fsmash people and if they were close enough and thin enough the move would simply whiff because terrible hitbox placement.

Dunno why you'd bair as M2 vs grounded people when you could just fair instead tho.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Not sure if I would describe that as a deadzone. (Yes I see you've put it in quotation marks)

A deadzone is like when Shulk used to be able to fsmash people and if they were close enough and thin enough the move would simply whiff because terrible hitbox placement.

Dunno why you'd bair as M2 vs grounded people when you could just fair instead tho.

Yeah, I didn't know the best word to describe it. If I know of a better word, I'll put it in. Would "blindspot" be a better word, or is that virtually the same as "deadzone"? What would you say to describe it?

And I also see your point about Bair and Fair. However, Bair does have more overall range I think, and isn't most of Mewtwo's tail exempt from his hurtbox? Pretty sure I saw a thread around here explaining that only the big "trunk" of his tail (the base of it), is part of his hurtbox... I could of course, have just made that up, but if this is true, Fair puts his hurtbox closer to the opponent, where as Bair doesn't. I understand your thought though. If I find that thread, I'll link it here.

(edit: found it! - http://smashboards.com/threads/the-misconceptions-about-mewtwos-hurtbox-end-here.416127/. Of course, until we get a solid way to find out hurtbox data, this is the best we have, but i'm inclined to believe 100% what shown here).

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Yeah, I didn't know the best word to describe it. If I know of a better word, I'll put it in. Would "blindspot" be a better word, or is that virtually the same as "deadzone"? What would you say to describe it?

And I also see your point about Bair and Fair. However, Bair does have more overall range I think, and isn't most of Mewtwo's tail exempt from his hurtbox? Pretty sure I saw a thread around here explaining that only the big "trunk" of his tail (the base of it), is part of his hurtbox... I could of course, have just made that up. If I find that thread, I'll link it here.

Blindspot is better, yes. But like, the move is designed like that intentionally so. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Bowserboy3]

Furil - Not sure if anybody has asked this yet, but are the hitboxes for his Special moves coming?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Furil - Not sure if anybody has asked this yet, but are the hitboxes for his Special moves coming?

There's probably not much to post. Neutral B doesn't move with bones, Up Special doesn't have hitboxes, Down B also probably won't render in his program properly (making an assumption here). I think he posted Side B already in the thread somewhere.

 

[Chiroz]

There's probably not much to post. Neutral B doesn't move with bones, Up Special doesn't have hitboxes, Down B also probably won't render in his program properly (making an assumption here). I think he posted Side B already in the thread somewhere.

I would be very interested in Down-B but I guess it might not be possible right now.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Not sure if I would describe that as a deadzone. (Yes I see you've put it in quotation marks)

A deadzone is like when Shulk used to be able to fsmash people and if they were close enough and thin enough the move would simply whiff because terrible hitbox placement.

Dunno why you'd bair as M2 vs grounded people when you could just fair instead tho.

Tipper Bair tends to be safer, and can easily be used in a retreating fashion after running off a platform. SH Bair to hit a grounded opponent is almost useless, but Bair is still pretty good, and it cannot be shield grabbed like Fair.

 

[Chiroz]

KuroganeHammer Have you been able to determine what Disable's frame data is? I know it says it starts at frame 16 but is there any confirmation which frame it ends at?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

KuroganeHammer Have you been able to determine what Disable's frame data is? I know it says it starts at frame 16 but is there any confirmation which frame it ends at?

It's an article and I don't know how to fetch article data. Melee was 15-21 iirc

 

[Spikezillian]

Bair's initial hitbox (frame 13):

View attachment 99839

This is a good hitbox in reality, though seeing as this is the first active frame of the move, I think I can understand why people got/get all eat up about it.

There is a big area right below Mewtwo, which on a lot of grounded characters, can cause the move to miss. Doesn't mean the move's hitboxes are bad, it's just that their timing could be improved.

But see the thing is, a grounded enemy is not relevant. Doesn't matter where they are, they are probably going to be faster than you. Bair is too slow compared to every other aerial, and the hitboxes dont come low enough for the times you need it. That's why its useless. You could probably fair to bank a free kill rather than struggling to randomly swing your tail in the air for a *chance* to kill. If the move is gunna be that slow, it shouldnt have a sour spot like it does (middle tail). If hes gunna be a glass cannon, he shouldn't have moves that start up too late like this. If the tail had a hitbox since frame 10 of the animation then maybe it would be a fantastic move, then it would be justified for it to have a sour spot, and to have a weird animation. But no. Fair and Nair would probably be better then Bair, heck even Dair might be better. At least that move can be a good mixup from a short hop. It's one of those moves you just have to admit, what were they thinking?

On that note, doesnt PM have a faster bair? Can anyone show me the hitbox visualization and possibly compare them? I would do the legwork but I'm in class atm.

 

[Spikezillian]

Edited because my post duplicated.

 

[meleebrawler]

But see the thing is, a grounded enemy is not relevant. Doesn't matter where they are, they are probably going to be faster than you. Bair is too slow compared to every other aerial, and the hitboxes dont come low enough for the times you need it. That's why its useless. You could probably fair to bank a free kill rather than struggling to randomly swing your tail in the air for a *chance* to kill. If the move is gunna be that slow, it shouldnt have a sour spot like it does (middle tail). If hes gunna be a glass cannon, he shouldn't have moves that start up too late like this. If the tail had a hitbox since frame 10 of the animation then maybe it would be a fantastic move, then it would be justified for it to have a sour spot, and to have a weird animation. But no. Fair and Nair would probably be better then Bair, heck even Dair might be better. At least that move can be a good mixup from a short hop. It's one of those moves you just have to admit, what were they thinking?

On that note, doesnt PM have a faster bair? Can anyone show me the hitbox visualization and possibly compare them? I would do the legwork but I'm in class atm.

"So Mewtwo has this forward aerial that is really fast, does good damage and kills pretty well, but doesn't have a lot of reach. What should his back aerial be like?"

"If it uses that long tail of his, it'll have lots more range while doing almost the same amount of damage (but not at the tip so it doesn't make people space with it instead of forward aerial for big damage), but much slower to start and lasting longer (enough to almost hit directly above, in fact)."

You have fair and dair for ground opponents, bair and uair as anti-airs and nair for everything in between.

 

[Chiroz]

"So Mewtwo has this forward aerial that is really fast, does good damage and kills pretty well, but doesn't have a lot of reach. What should his back aerial be like?"

"If it uses that long tail of his, it'll have lots more range while doing almost the same amount of damage (but not at the tip so it doesn't make people space with it instead of forward aerial for big damage), but much slower to start and lasting longer (enough to almost hit directly above, in fact)."

You have fair and dair for ground opponents, bair and uair as anti-airs and nair for everything in between.

Mewtwo has huge blindspots behind + underneath and in front + on top (this being THE most common area your opponent will be at on most ocassions). He doesn't cover all areas. It's worse because his body is so huge.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Mewtwo has huge blindspots behind + underneath and in front + on top (this being THE most common area your opponent will be at on most ocassions). He doesn't cover all areas. It's worse because his body is so huge.

Behind and underneath is sorta understandable, but why do you say upper in front? Uair starts at that spot, making it rather good. Is Uair not quite good enough to cover in your opinion?

 

[Chiroz]

Behind and underneath is sorta understandable, but why do you say upper in front? Uair starts at that spot, making it rather good. Is Uair not quite good enough to cover in your opinion?

Well I mean, U-Air starts about 60 degrees on top and in front of Mewtwo, but anything under that and it whiffs.

Literally my #1 most wanted buff would be for U-Air to start 2 frames earlier so it could cover the areas F-Air can't hit in front of us.

Give us that Falcon/Mario/Math/Lucina/etc, etc, etc U-Air.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Well I mean, U-Air starts about 60 degrees on top and in front of Mewtwo, but anything under that and it whiffs.

Literally my #1 most wanted buff would be for U-Air to start 2 frames earlier so it could cover the areas F-Air can't hit in front of us.

Give us that Falcon/Mario/Math/Lucina/etc, etc, etc U-Air.

So you were meaning a more just above his eyes position, not a 90 degree. Understood.

 

[Chiroz]

So you were meaning a more just above his eyes position, not a 90 degree. Understood.

Yea, I was referring closer to eye level than actually above him

 

[Sonicninja115]

Furil Can I use the Nair Gif in a guide?

 

[LRodC]

Furil I noticed you were able to get grab data for other characters, would you be able to get it for Mewtwo now? Also, can you supply an updated GIF for the buffed n-air hitboxes after 1.1.5?

 

[JAZZ_]

Is there anyway to get a visual of mewtwos reflect? When the hit box becomes active, how long it lingers, it's height parameters, stuff like that?

 

[Furil]

Here is new Nair and Standing grab:

Spoiler: Nair

Spoiler: Grab

Is there anyway to get a visual of mewtwos reflect? When the hit box becomes active, how long it lingers, it's height parameters, stuff like that?

I don't really understand any more than the number of active frames for reflect. When I know more than that I can display it.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Here is new Nair and Standing grab:

Spoiler: Nair

Spoiler: Grab

I don't really understand any more than the number of active frames for reflect. When I know more than that I can display it.

Can I use the Nair gif in my guide? And thanks for doing this!

 

[LRodC]

That is a weird grab hitbox. Can you add these to the OP?

 

[Lord Dio]

As one who used to play Mewtwo, and still does for funsies......I'm a major fan of the Destructo Disk Up Smash. Nice job with it.

 

[SparkSubmarine]

Wow! I never realized how his Nair worked. I'm so happy he has good hitboxes. Also, does anyone have information for his and?