Meta Knight without B moves is more balanced imo.

[Deathcarter]

Imo, Meta Knight without these two moves would at least be on par with DDD, Snake, G&W, and Wario. I realize that these 2 moves are not broken, but the absense of these 2 moves (when you take off B moves in the controller configuration) I beleive knocks Meta Knight down to top tier with the others and not "* rank" beyond everyone else.

Me and my friends find Meta Knight without specials to be much more managable on the intermediate level as the Meta Knight cannot spam difficult to punish moves and thus has to play better than the opponent to win. And Meta Knight can still recover with his glide and 5 jumps so that is barely a problem.

What I am asking of the Meta Knight players is that can you try a Meta Knight with the non-specials control setting in some friendly matches and find out for yourselves if he is at the level of the other top tiers or still beyond everyone. Or if you have already tried it, do you beleive you Meta Knight is barely affected or is he actually harder/more managable?

 

[Excellence]

Well no **** genius, any character missing any of their useful moves becomes more manageable.

 

[Deathcarter]

Well no **** genius, any character missing any of their useful moves becomes more manageable.

Of course that is true, but Meta Knight without specials can still be top tier because he can recover well enough without specials. I am just suggesting that he would be more balanced compared to the rest of the top tier without his specials and perhaps even have more neutral matchups.

Frankly, NOBODY considers this option. Meta Knight is clearly dominate compared to the rest of the roster, but this thought of balancing him within the means of the game does not occure to anybody. If people seriously considered this and put it into practice, competetively or in friendlies, there would be a lot less bawwing about Meta Knight than there is now.

Its better than banning him anyway.

 

[brinboy789]

i main MK and the only b move that i use consistently is shuttle loop...

 

[cutter]

This is horrible logic.

G&W without his turtle...
Snake without his tilts...
DDD without grabs...

And so on. ANY character without their best moves will be weaker without question. Stop whining like a little kid about the tornado and his shuttle loop, and learn to play.

 

[Deathcarter]

This is horrible logic.

G&W without his turtle...
Snake without his tilts...
DDD without grabs...

And so on. ANY character without their best moves will be weaker without question. Stop whining like a little kid about the tornado and his shuttle loop, and learn to play.

One, Meta Knight does not rely on those moves to win. Shuttle Loop and Tornado just push him beyond the other characters into a tier of his own. He would still be the best character without them or his other B moves, he'd just be in the same league as the other top tiers. Removing ANY characters A moves or grabs however just completely kills off their viability.

Two, I posted the suggestion because there are other roads to take on the Meta Knight issue. This is just a suggestion for a more balanced Meta Knight for people to play with/against (a suggestion intended for friendly play). If people actually thought about restricting Meta's B moves in friendly play before me, then we would have not had that stupid hypothetical ban Meta thread in TD because everyone would have noticed an option for a more balanced MK.

Three, I have to whine because people don't realize that the section of the tier list between Snake and Zamus is the section we should be looking at to consider Brawl's overall balance because all of those characters can for the most part compete reasonably well against each other (minus a few 70:30 matchups). But Brawl is perceived as 25% as balanced as Melee instead of just as balanced because people can't analyze the game's balance from a mathematical viewpoint and dismiss Meta Knight as an unbalanced overpowered outlier.


Sorry, that last paragraph is just a personal thing that has been bugging me.

 

[M@v]

he would still be one of the best characters....those moves just make him amazing.

 

[cutter]

The problem with trying to ban individual moves is that it starts a slippery slope. After people stop complaining about the Tornado and Shuttle Loop people will want to get rid of G&W's turtle and Snake's tilts. It would get out of control really quickly. G&W and Snake are both excellent characters and with the Turtle/tilts they go from excellent to ridiculous.

And I guess the people who complain about MK are people who main a character that just gets obliterated by MK. I main G&W and he's one of the few characters in the game that stands a chance against MK. We all know Brawl is imbalanced and it's worse than Melee because of MK and a piss-poor ratio of good characters to bad ones. Then again if you played as Link in Melee you definately knew you had a hopeless matchup against Sheik.

You don't ban something because you have a hard time getting around it. No, something gets banned as an absolute last resort.

 

[Deathcarter]

The problem with trying to ban individual moves is that it starts a slippery slope. After people stop complaining about the Tornado and Shuttle Loop people will want to get rid of G&W's turtle and Snake's tilts. It would get out of control really quickly. G&W and Snake are both excellent characters and with the Turtle/tilts they go from excellent to ridiculous.

And I guess the people who complain about MK are people who main a character that just gets obliterated by MK. I main G&W and he's one of the few characters in the game that stands a chance against MK. We all know Brawl is imbalanced and it's worse than Melee because of MK and a piss-poor ratio of good characters to bad ones. Then again if you played as Link in Melee you definately knew you had a hopeless matchup against Sheik.

You don't ban something because you have a hard time getting around it. No, something gets banned as an absolute last resort.

Actually, I agree with you there. Frankly, that is why I even pitched the idea. If there were serious talks of Meta getting banned himself, I would like for there to be an analysis of whether or not Meta without B moves go even with at least the other top tier characters before you outright banned him.

But, my idea presently, should only be look at for friendlies. People playing friendly matches with Meta can somewhat balance him. If people played a more balanced MK, there would (hopefully) be less whining on Smashboards about how good Meta is. Less MK whining about MK is what I am hoping to ultimately achieve (as far as realistic expectations go) with the suggestion.

 

[HolyKnight]

This is horrible logic.

G&W without his turtle...
Snake without his tilts...
DDD without grabs...

And so on. ANY character without their best moves will be weaker without question. Stop whining like a little kid about the tornado and his shuttle loop, and learn to play.

^ This

Seriously, why so many tears? Deal with how the character is, nothing you say or do will change him.

 

[brinboy789]

removing the moves that are essential to any characters metagame is disgusting and is NOT or ever going to happen. like what cutter said,
G&W without his turtle...
Snake without his tilts...
DDD without grabs...
it just doesnt work. this thread fails.

1000000fails

 

[mluo2010]

Hey guys...Deathcarter isn't saying that his idea should be implemented in tournament play. He's just throwing out an idea that people could try in friendlies. He's not trying to ban anything.

And before you jump on the "this thread ph417z" bandwagon, try to read the OP a little more carefully. It's not saying that MK's B moves should be banned. He's just asking us to try playing MK without his B moves just to see how it turns out.

 

[chaos_]

of course he is balanced without b moves

 

[ScarletRose~]

Imo, Meta Knight without these two moves would at least be on par with DDD, Snake, G&W, and Wario. I realize that these 2 moves are not broken, but the absense of these 2 moves (when you take off B moves in the controller configuration) I beleive knocks Meta Knight down to top tier with the others and not "* rank" beyond everyone else.

Me and my friends find Meta Knight without specials to be much more managable on the intermediate level as the Meta Knight cannot spam difficult to punish moves and thus has to play better than the opponent to win. And Meta Knight can still recover with his glide and 5 jumps so that is barely a problem.

What I am asking of the Meta Knight players is that can you try a Meta Knight with the non-specials control setting in some friendly matches and find out for yourselves if he is at the level of the other top tiers or still beyond everyone. Or if you have already tried it, do you beleive you Meta Knight is barely affected or is he actually harder/more managable?

lol. just lol

 

[chaos_]

wow lol

asda

 

[Heroes_Never_Die]

What's the point? Metaknight's moveset itself will never be altered by tournament rules so you won't get better at fighting Metaknight.

 

[Deathcarter]

^ This

Seriously, why so many tears? Deal with how the character is, nothing you say or do will change him.

If you restrict Meta Knight's B moves, he is more balanced to the rest of the cast while still being great. If you take away another character's A moves, grabs, or B moves, they are horribly gimped.

It is the same idea, but the outcomes are far to different to warrant lumping the situations together.

And yes, I or anyone else cannot change competetive Meta, but we can restrict him while retaining most of his ownage in recreational play.

lol. just lol

I am enlightening people on another Meta Knight for them to use in friendlies so they don't have to complain about the regular Meta Knight being HORRIBLY unbalanced. This has NOTHING to do with tournament MK as of right now. You guys are simply too blind to see that.

But if I am wrong about B-less MK and he is still miles ahead of every other character, then enlighten me on why instead of borderline spamming.

 

[Glick]

Isn't is strange that all the MK mainers are complete *******s?

Deathcarter was just proposing an idea as an alternative to him being banned. Hes not saying he exactly wants this, but people have been seriously talking about banning MK and hes trying to find out a way to make MK not god tier without completely taking it away.

In my opinion. Hes not THAT hard to beat with his B moves. People who spam get punished by my little pink feet.

 

[AlbelsPanties]

His tornado is fairly overrated anyway. Its punishable by an intelligent opponent because you know exactly how long it can last + the lag at the end. Shuttle Loop is an amazing ability, but everyone has to have something great about them. Taking away his shuttle loop is like taking away Snake's tilts. It's just part of the character. Yeah, they're great recoveries and approaches, but they're nowhere near as broken as people make them out to be. It's his A-moves that win games.