Meta Knight Theory Thread/Discussion

[Jackson]

It's obvious that MK is nowhere near what he was in Brawl. But I feel that he still has potential. I will be playing him as at least one of my mains and I'm going to post findings and tidbits here. I want to hear what you guys have to say as well so we can all collectively improve this character and develop his meta (pun intended).

10/5/14 Thoughts

- MK is clearly lacking power and range. I feel that the strongest way to play him is methodically aggressive. By this I mean that we should play very conservatively on stage and punish hard when given the opportunity.

- Meta Knight's main strength is his recovery. He has many jumps and a multitude of recovery options. With these, I feel that it is paramount to go full aggro when edge guarding. Dive deep for kills. Although gimping is very difficult in Smash 4, at least add some damage or pressure your opponent.

- Our main approach options are dash grab, dash attack, and dash to shield. Dash to shield is VERY GOOD in this game, and can lead to shield grabs or other punishes OOS (out of shield). Dash attack is solid. Dash grab has high payoff but be careful with it.

- The foundation of Meta Knight's combo game is his throws. Dthrow has many followups until mid percents, most notably Fair, Dair, Nair, and Usmash. At mid to high percents, you could try going Dthrow into Down B. If successful, you may get the kill. At very higher percents it might be a better option to just Bthrow your opponent off the stage.

- It was heavily nerfed from Brawl but Dtilt is still one of MK's best moves in my opinion. I feel that it is very good after landing from an aerial. Some combo ideas are Dtilt into: Dtilt, Dash attack, Dash grab (sometimes), maybe Nair, or just go for a tech chase read.

- MK's fair can spike- very powerfully. It's a strange hitbox that I'm struggling to land, but good use of this could have huge payoff. Look on YouTube for demonstration.

- No joke- footstooling someone offstage is a lucrative edgeguard, especially against fighters with poor vertical recovery like Mario. Don't neglect it.

- Was Tornado nerfed from Brawl? Definitely. Is it bad? No. It deals a clean 10% and can combo from Uair sometimes.

- I love Nair. I feel that it is a great edge guarding and pressure tool. Use it often.

- Utilt is a great combo starter/extender but hard to land. Try to combo into it from dash attack at low %.

- At high percents, Dash attack into Up B seems to be a strong kill setup, although whiffing the Up B will get you punished hard.

That's all I have to say for now. What are your ideas? Let's all share what we find.

 

[Mettie7]

Drill Rush seems buffed to me, the range is farther and 9/10 times all the hits connect. The bounce-back on completion is nice to give you some space. Great tool

 

[Jackson]

Drill Rush seems buffed to me, the range is farther and 9/10 times all the hits connect. The bounce-back on completion is nice to give you some space. Great tool

Yeah, I use it often and it rarely gets punished.

 

[superange]

I've been playing him a bunch of online and have not been doing very well. Perhaps I'm used to how OP he was in Brawl (though I dropped using him consistently in Brawl after a while).

Continuing with the discussion, Side B does seem a bit better but I don't use it too often.

I don't really like how his main approaches is having to dash than shield/grab though I guess I'm not used to that playstyle in general

Sometimes a short hop Forward Air is decent for approach

In general maybe I'm just playing Meta Knight on the ground too much? His Side and Up Tilts seem pointless. Neutral A is slightly better than Brawl but still not something taht can be used consistently.

While it's good that they nerfed his range and priority (it was ridiculous in Brawl) it feel likes it's too hard to actually connect attacks consistently outside when you throw.

Of course his edgeguarding and recovery is still great, though I need to get better at edgeguarding/gimping. I usually try to Fair but after reading the original post I should find ways to use N Air more


I think the main problem I have is dealing with people who shield/dodge roll towards the edge a lot and (if they have them) dealing with projectiles. I prefer to be a bit aggressive but to also be kind of cautious (aka methodically aggressive like what Jackson said). I guess I have to learn how to punish people, but it seems a bit hard to with Meta Knight's range and priority sucking.

 

[Jackson]

I've been playing him a bunch of online and have not been doing very well. Perhaps I'm used to how OP he was in Brawl (though I dropped using him consistently in Brawl after a while).

Continuing with the discussion, Side B does seem a bit better but I don't use it too often.

I don't really like how his main approaches is having to dash than shield/grab though I guess I'm not used to that playstyle in general

Sometimes a short hop Forward Air is decent for approach

In general maybe I'm just playing Meta Knight on the ground too much? His Side and Up Tilts seem pointless. Neutral A is slightly better than Brawl but still not something taht can be used consistently.

While it's good that they nerfed his range and priority (it was ridiculous in Brawl) it feel likes it's too hard to actually connect attacks consistently outside when you throw.

Of course his edgeguarding and recovery is still great, though I need to get better at edgeguarding/gimping. I usually try to Fair but after reading the original post I should find ways to use N Air more


I think the main problem I have is dealing with people who shield/dodge roll towards the edge a lot and (if they have them) dealing with projectiles. I prefer to be a bit aggressive but to also be kind of cautious (aka methodically aggressive like what Jackson said). I guess I have to learn how to punish people, but it seems a bit hard to with Meta Knight's range and priority sucking.

I struggle with him as well. As you said, the heavy range and priority nerfs screwed up this character .

 

[ItoI6]

I've been playing him for a bit and I think the key to success with him still lies with what made him broken in brawl, the tornado and his shuttle loop. In brawl, if you hit someone with the initial hit of tornado they usually will pop out of it so it was actually kind of hard to get every hit of the move. This is not the case in smash 4, if you're on top of someone with tornado when you start it and you mash B hard, you can do 20-22% guaranteed which is actually more than what I think even brawl tornado did at max. I think people are looking at tornado wrong thinking of using it to approach and beat out other moves, but really its for the incredible raw damage for a punish that this move has. Even his combos do less damage then a full tornado, I think dthrow to upsmash only does like 16% which is his best guaranteed option off a throw at low percents. His shuttle loop is also a stupidly good move even in this game, it does 15% off the ground, is his best kill option, and can be used out of shield nearly instantly. It also is a true combo off of dash attack and dthrow. It will also combo for the kill from like 100-120% off of forward throw if you are sliding forward from your dash grab when you use it, which will give you just enough time to jump and land the upb. Only problem with this move is I swear I land the upb in the same spot and sometimes they just fall out of it for no reason but it could just be something I'm not noticing.

The way I play him is by hovering around the opponent with my jumps and try and bait them to do something dumb in order to try and land a full tornado on them, and if they keep shielding I fastfall out of range of their grab and bother them with dtilt and dash grabs. If I want a mixup from the grab at low percents I dthrow, nair, then shield and wait for them to land, if they jump then you can usually upb out of shield and catch them. If you don't want to risk that when they jump you can just try and catch their landing because theyll have given up their jump. It's only 14% total instead of 16 with the upsmash but its harder to react to imo. He really lacks good kill options except for his upb which is pretty risky to go for, so you'll usually have to land it as an out of shield move as a punish. His dsmash is total dog**** for some reason and cant kill at all, all of his aerials are terribly weak and his upsmash can kill but has no hitbox on the ground. On the other hand, his fsmash is ridiculously strong now for some reason, it kills at like 80 and has literally no cooldown lag at all but the range has been nerfed. I like to foxtrot this move to scare my opponents and help me land a dash grab. It really is disappointing how bad his kill options are cuz its literally just upb, land the fsmash or gimp but upb is godly enough to make it work I guess lol

I think hes solid high mid tier but all of his good moves are too slow and too unreliable to go any farther. His grab game is dope though

 

[ADAPT Chance]

He feels solid, is he as good as he was in brawl hell no but he is still a good character.

I land his F-Air spike/lock combo maybe 50% of the time but I'm choosing not to mess around with it much till the Wii U version is released (too nervous about the strain on the 3DS circle pad)

 

[ndayday]

besides what has been said, dsmash does kill but it has to be the second hit of it. It's like how with dair you have to be facing the opposite way to get the most out of it, the same with dsmash. kills just about as early as his other kill moves imo. tornado also kills, and I've been using it a lot when they start getting to the "this is ridiculous" percentages. If uou can catch them in the air with it, even better since the ceiling is that much closer. the move is usually not stale, as a bonus.

Projectile characters are annoying but I've been having pretty good success with jumping and waiting for the lag, at which point I fastfall fair (dair has too much landing lag for my liking). This has also netted me some spikes, but most often you'll catch them with the last hit (2% lol) so it does decent knock back and gets them in the air, where unless they have a safe way back to the stage you can have your way with them. If it's very early on you can land and dtilt them, sometimes resulting in a trip which you can follow up with grab/dash and all the combos that stem from those two.

what I do sometimes is dash > uair > dair or bair, which is pretty awesome

Other than that the combos I've seen listed here have gotten me a lot of mileage. When I first started playing him a few days ago (maybe a week now) I thought he was pretty trash but now I'm starting to really like his tools and the way he works.

 

[DblCrest]

Shuttle loop and dimensional cape are pretty good KO moves. Speaking of which you can use the grab release on Wario for a free shuttle loop to KO him at 130% without rage effect on Metaknight. Though it's kinda cheap...

 

[Jackson]

Yeah Up B is a great kill move. Don't forget that you can use it on the ground- it works well if you see an opening.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Yeah Up B is a great kill move. Don't forget that you can use it on the ground- it works well if you see an opening.

It's actually sligthly more powerful when used from the ground than when used in the air.

 

[Jackson]

It's actually sligthly more powerful when used from the ground than when used in the air.

Yeah, seemed like it. Thanks for confirming.

 

[⑨ball]

Been using DownB a lot for air movement. If you autocancel it, the threat of it makes for a pretty decent mixup in matches. Should be better once we get off of these circle pads too.

 

[Jackson]

Been using DownB a lot for air movement. If you autocancel it, the threat of it makes for a pretty decent mixup in matches. Should be better once we get off of these circle pads too.

Wow, it can autocancel? What's the timing/spacing for this?

 

[⑨ball]

Yeah, both tornado and downB auto cancel. Tornado auto cancels from about triple jump height and DownB is about full jump height. I usually just hold diagonal up back and fast fall when I come out and it works pretty easy. Trying to get it at other distances for approaches and generally unpredictable movement.

Looking at the animations for both it might be connected to the way MK lands from his recovery animation meaning we might also find an autocancel angle for sideB. If I find one I'll update.

 

[Jackson]

Yeah, both tornado and downB auto cancel. Tornado auto cancels from about triple jump height and DownB is about full jump height. I usually just hold diagonal up back and fast fall when I come out and it works pretty easy. Trying to get it at other distances for approaches and generally unpredictable movement.

Looking at the animations for both it might be connected to the way MK lands from his recovery animation meaning we might also find an autocancel angle for sideB. If I find one I'll update.

thanks for the information, that's pretty cool.

 

[Fygar]

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, maybe it's already common knowledge? You can control the direction you're facing when using dimensional cape. MK generally slashes in the opposite direction he was traveling (if MK was moving right, he'd slash to his left.) But if you press back on the circle pad right before MK comes out of Dimensional cape, he'll be facing the same direction he was traveling ( if MK was moving right, he'd slash to his right.) The draw back is slightly reduced knock back and you generally do 14% instead of 16%. After understanding how this works, I find it easier to use. Hope this helps.

 

[Jackson]

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, maybe it's already common knowledge? You can control the direction you're facing when using dimensional cape. MK generally slashes in the opposite direction he was traveling (if MK was moving right, he'd slash to his left.) But if you press back on the circle pad right before MK comes out of Dimensional cape, he'll be facing the same direction he was traveling ( if MK was moving right, he'd slash to his right.) The draw back is slightly reduced knock back and you generally do 14% instead of 16%. After understanding how this works, I find it easier to use. Hope this helps.

Cool, thanks for the explanation.

 

[TKD]

I'm surprised you didn't mention that our upb and downb are two of the best moves in the game.

Upb can finish combos, can ko, is fast, is enormous and can be done out of shield. You just have to control it so the second hit lands (you can input left or right so MK goes further forward or pulls to stay in place on each of both slashes). You can combo into it, use it to bait and punish airdodges, use it out of shield or simply take a risk and use it to kill up top as a surprise if you think they're scared to airdodge. It's incredibly dangerous in rage mode so it makes people start playing really dumb and desperate in the air.

5 jumps + downb makes MK one of the hardest characters to juggle in the game, and is very useful for returning from the ledge. It covers so much distance, makes you invincible pretty quickly and doesn't have much cooldown.

 

[Thor]

I started off the game with MK (since I had wanted to in Brawl but I started when he was banned, switched to Pikachu, and never really looked back - thanks to my Smash 4 practice with MK I can play him there now but it's whatever) and want to say this: If MK's ftilt had the range it looks to have, it would be crazy good. As it is, I can't even find a use for the thing except trying to punish a roll while literally on top of them (at which point I think pivot grabbing is better). Does anyone have a use for pivot ftilt?

I often use uair -> uair -> ... shuttle loop - shuttle loop seems to stale SUPER heavily so it's gotta be kept fresh OR not relied on for KOs, but it's very strong for off the top KOs - generally to land it I would uair them and then look for the air dodge - I would often do 2 uairs regardless (so that if I miss the air dodge read I'm less punished), and if I can get it, take it - it's not guaranteed but MK has the advantage and I find it's not too hard to land off careful juggling (though it's not Brawl-easy either).

I have not experimented much with down+b but I will do so.

I don't know for sure, but it FEELS like charging an fsmash where someone is going to land and releasing it -> dsmash is a frame trap - if they airdodge and you release fsmash during the airdodge, dsmash seems fast enough to hit them, or you just fsmash them. Is this the case or not? I don't manage to set it up often, but it seems to work reasonably well against people who have poor air mobility and bad escape options (ex: Falco after his side+b has been used).

For most of my approaches, I either try to walk for an ftilt or dtilt (rarely), or I'll SH dair (which autocancels and seems to be surprisingly decent). I occasionally full hop fair, or shorthop fair and just know that I'll lag.

Also people are talking about all these dthrow combos so I must not be very good at following up with dthrow since I don't land much outside of fair or usmash. Or maybe I just play against floaties a lot? I can usually at least get fair or usmash against Falco (didn't know about the others, and I didn't realize it extended beyond like 25%) but I can barely get fair at 0-10% against Puff holding away.

 

[Jackson]

Up B is definitely an amazing kill move. I enjoy MK but I think we have to be really creative to make him effective. I plan to put time into him on Wii U.

 

[DiggersBoy]

I figured out there are 3 angles in which Meta Knight Down-B's, depending on where you hold the direction. Unsure whether or not this actually does anything, or it's just for aesthetic features. To me, angle seems the same, but I'm testing on a Training Mode CPU, so my angles might not be on point. I need someone else to test with, though I don't have anyone with me right now (My sparring buddy doesn't like testing, he mainly fights me only).

http://imgur.com/a/bj2Hw This is what I got. If anyone wants to help me figure this out, I would be grateful. If this is real, and Meta Knight's Down-B changes it's angle depending on where you hold the direction, we could catch a couple people off guard with this.

If this is nothing new, please tell me. I don't like false hope.

 

[Lavani]

I figured out there are 3 angles in which Meta Knight Down-B's, depending on where you hold the direction. Unsure whether or not this actually does anything, or it's just for aesthetic features. To me, angle seems the same, but I'm testing on a Training Mode CPU, so my angles might not be on point. I need someone else to test with, though I don't have anyone with me right now (My sparring buddy doesn't like testing, he mainly fights me only).

http://imgur.com/a/bj2Hw This is what I got. If anyone wants to help me figure this out, I would be grateful. If this is real, and Meta Knight's Down-B changes it's angle depending on where you hold the direction, we could catch a couple people off guard with this.

If this is nothing new, please tell me. I don't like false hope.

The stationary slash does 15% and KOs Mario around 125%
The retreating slash does 14% and KOs Mario around 130%
The advancing/reverse slash does 16% and KOs Mario around 115%
(percents from center of FD)

As far as I can tell the launch angle does seem the same between all three versions, so if there's any differences I'd imagine it's in hitboxes or end lag, which I'm rather curious about personally because the reversed slash seems like the only one you'd ever want to use otherwise. Also worth noting that since you can move in multiple directions during Dimensional Cape, you can move back then forward to do a reversed slash on the spot.

EDIT: While attempting to compare the hitboxes between slashes I found a 16% hitbox on the stationary slash that KOs at 117%, seems to be around MK's feet, or maybe his center? I guess there's more to these variations after all.

 

[Claxus]

Haven't found much use to the different versions the past few days... His strongest (reverse) slash already has a hitbox that seems to hit all around him and KOs the best. It also has the best range. Seems kinda weird that the other versions are there but don't really change much except being weaker in power and range. The neutral one is alright, but needs that awkward sweetspot.

I love to find niches for moves like this, but I dunno... Feels like their niche was making me wonder why I wasn't KOing sometimes. Now I know to go for the reverse version always...

 

[SFA Smiley]

Dude I just want some range... like really freaking bad, his range sucks

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Haven't found much use to the different versions the past few days... His strongest (reverse) slash already has a hitbox that seems to hit all around him and KOs the best. It also has the best range.

His retreating slash seems the longest to me. You sure the reverse slash is longer?

 

[Claxus]

His retreating slash seems the longest to me. You sure the reverse slash is longer?

Technically, it does have longer range in front, but the thing is, if you're facing the opponent and are going to use Dimensional Cape towards them, the reverse slash travels further. I think Meta Knight warps an extra distance compared to the other two. If I try to approach with the retreating version by pressing backwards at the last second, or the neutral version, he doesn't reappear as far.

 

[Claxus]

Meta Knight's dash attack has different launch trajectories, probably old news. Gonna explain quickly anyway since it's relevant for the rest here. Hitting with the start of the kick launches the enemies more diagonally away, but if you just hit them with the end of the kick, they fly much more straight upwards.

I've been trying to combo up-B as a finisher, and a lot of times they can hitstun shuffle away from my range after a dash attack or D-throw. But I'm wondering if they can actually avoid it if you hit with a spaced dash attack. The AI can't (lol), and none of the players I tried it on dodged it, but that could be human error. This is about 90-100% on average, more or less depending on their weight. Naturally, too little won't KO but may be a true combo, and too much launches too far. for the Shuttle Loop. Although I wonder if you can squeeze out a double jump at those further percents.

So can anyone confirm if it's air dodgeable or not? Pretty sure the spaced dash attack can't be avoided otherwise, unless maybe influencing the knockback upwards.

 

[DiggersBoy]

Should I compile all of this info into a single post instead of a disorganized thread so it would look like we're actually getting something done

A quick scout of all the other Character Threads shows that they actually have easy ways for beginners to get good at their character (Olimar even has a beginner's guide, for god sake)

Meta Knight's dash attack has different launch trajectories, probably old news. Gonna explain quickly anyway since it's relevant for the rest here. Hitting with the start of the kick launches the enemies more diagonally away, but if you just hit them with the end of the kick, they fly much more straight upwards.

I've been trying to combo up-B as a finisher, and a lot of times they can hitstun shuffle away from my range after a dash attack or D-throw. But I'm wondering if they can actually avoid it if you hit with a spaced dash attack. The AI can't (lol), and none of the players I tried it on dodged it, but that could be human error. This is about 90-100% on average, more or less depending on their weight. Naturally, too little won't KO but may be a true combo, and too much launches too far. for the Shuttle Loop. Although I wonder if you can squeeze out a double jump at those further percents.

So can anyone confirm if it's air dodgeable or not? Pretty sure the spaced dash attack can't be avoided otherwise, unless maybe influencing the knockback upwards.

Wait, where should you be hitting that dash attack? In the beginning, middle, or end of the animation?

Other than that, good find.

 

[Claxus]

Should I compile all of this info into a single post instead of a disorganized thread so it would look like we're actually getting something done

A quick scout of all the other Character Threads shows that they actually have easy ways for beginners to get good at their character (Olimar even has a beginner's guide, for god sake)


Wait, where should you be hitting that dash attack? In the beginning, middle, or end of the animation?

Other than that, good find.

Think of it as a spaced dash attack. The closer to the tip of the range you hit, the straighter up the knockback is. If you hit with it very close on its startup, they go flying off very diagonally.

And I love the idea of having a metagame thread with an informative opening and movelisting that acts as a simple guide. A chart for attack damages, and some average percents for key KO moves, basics like D-throw and approaching moves, and a compilation of tips/techs for moves that have been discussed here. I can help with the damage chart and stuff.

 

[DiggersBoy]

Aight, I'm bad with the numbers anyways, so it should be a good thread to duo on. I'll start it sometime tomorrow, I guess.

 

[ItoI6]

Ok so people know how wolf and sonics dthrow in brawl would force a tech chase right? That specific angle and hitstun was extremely rare in brawl but in smash 4 I noticed that due to this game's increased hitstun you don't need to have an angle that's that low to force them to slam into the ground. A lot of characters just have regular attacks with enough hitstun and a low enough angle that force your opponent into a tech chase and they arent able to jump out or air dodge in time. idk why ive never seen anyone mention this when it seems so significant for like almost every character but here are the attacks i found for mk that will force a tech chase if he lands them at that %

Last hit Jab Combo 0-20%
Front Hit DSmash 15-45%
Nair into ground 20-30%
Sour Nair into ground 30-45%
non-tipper Dair at 45-70% dair has a tipper hitbox that sends them at a slightly more upward angle
Dtilt 100-120%

its basically just the % where tumble animation first starts to appear + 20 or so % so this really isnt accurate for every character just like middleweight ones.

if they miss the tech you can just dash attack+shuttle loop them. if ur at sort of the beginning of the dair%s you can short hop autocancel dair into a dtilt lock. for like the 1st 10% that dsmash starts to work there isnt enough time to reach them with dash attack before they start their get up attack, so you need to dash and shield instead which should still be able to get some kind of followup.

ive gotten all of these to work in real matches

 

[DiggersBoy]

I never played competitive brawl. Explain what you mean to me like I'm 5.

 

[ItoI6]

you can hit them with those attacks at about that range^ and theres enough hitstun that they are forced to slam into the ground. from there you can get free followups with dash attack (from dtilt, sh dair and both nairs) or if theres not enough time, you can dash and shield up to them and react to what they do (from dsmash and jab).

heres an example of the kind of knockback i mean on the 2nd hit nair and aerial down b

its a low angle which makes it so that there isnt enough time for them to airdodge or jump so the only way to escape is to tech.

 

[DiggersBoy]

Aight, thanks.

 

[ItoI6]

I'm convinced mk has the best dash attack in the game, good lord its such a ridiculous move. Its safe on shield if you activate it right when you pass the shield and it combos at everything below kill percent. It also has basically no end lag and is active forever. If you dash attack into someone trying to land it beats out basically everything they can do. If mk has a good amount of rage on him (like 100+%) then dash attack+upb kills super early at like 80% its crazy as hell. When you get to higher percents though you need to hit with the initial hitbox of dash attack instead of the ending tip. The intial hitbox sends them infront of you and the percents at which it combos into upb are far more lenient then the ending hitbox of dash attack, which sends them straight up and has less hitstun.

also something i want to ask is have you guys noticed how ****ing random upb is sometimes? I swear I hit with the same spot and theyll just fall out for no reason lol. you need to be super precise..I'll down throw people and expect them to di away from me at mid-high percents and theyll di up instead and it causes me to miss when i dash forward for too long and cant adjust in time. its hard to follow for me but idk i still think i just need better reactions, maybe in that case i should be waiting out airdodge into tornado more. Sometimes I feel like I'm waiting for an airdodge and it actually happens, and then I cant actually punish it because I wasnt in the right position even though i was expecting it lol. Its something that sounds nice in my head but actually putting it into my gameplay is kind of hard or impossible sometimes. When people di away at high percents and airdodge, i dont think even if you predict it perfectly you can get there in time to tornado. So I dont think thats something people should be going for. you can only get there in time below like 50-60% I think.

Is there anything safe on diddy's shield? I think he can oos banana toss even a spaced dtilt. The only thing is crossup dash attack I think and that gets predictable after a while. I'd feel a lot better if i knew if i can shieldgrab him if he threw a banana pointblank. He cant grab you if hes holding a banana and thats like the one thing that prevents his banana from being broke. Im thinking the right way to play this might be to just walk around in front of him and bait a banana toss then never leave that zone where youre one dash attack away so you can punish his ass if he ever tries to get another one or retrieve his banana. Its impossible to play this reaction based way on wifi of course so i think mk just loses there lol

A big problem I see is Diddy dash shielding into you and i dont know what I'm supposed to do. Letting him get a grab is super bad and i feel like his oos uair is massive and beats a mk just hovering around him. My instinct is to crossup dash attack but you just cant do that every time. Maybe the best thing is just to walk backwards a tiny bit and wait for him to do something stupid idk

I think if you dtilt someones shield twice and then jump on them and tornado it will shield poke them every time. Just a little tip for neutral.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Maybe a dash grab when Diddy is shielding? Is there a reason you don't use it?

 

[MagiusNecros]

Not sure this is the place to talk about it but I seem to be able to do a Forward Grab Attack and combo right into Shuttle Loop after the Down Throw > Shuttle Loop combo.

Seems to work on everything.

 

[DiggersBoy]

Forward Grab Attack

Wot

 

[MagiusNecros]

Wot

His Forward Throw. The kick he does.