Meta Knight Panel (Topics for Testing)

[rPSIvysaur]

I'll start working on the Glide action order write up soon.

 

[Orion*]

Specific frame data to check is Dtilt. In particular, meaty Dtilt (how to get it/what it looks like/etc.).

meaty?

my curiousitys as far hitstun would be

dtilt (tipper but more importantly the hit close to the body)
neutral air (stale/unstale)
sh uair on standing chars
sh dair on standing chars
first/second hit of bair/fair
hitstun on utilt, weak and hard hit
weak/strong hit grounded shuttle loop
glide attack


drill rush cancels would be interesting to look into also, as well as maybe getting deeper into downB properties

 

[DeLux]

That's a lot of data without the hitstun formula lol

Although frame advantage on F/Bair2 might be the most important based on my limited knowledge of MK

 

[Orion*]

im pretty sure you can sdi -> footstool before anything happens for bair2 if you get hit by bair 1

 

[Exdeath]

im pretty sure you can sdi -> footstool before anything happens for bair2 if you get hit by bair 1

You can do that for all of MK's multi-hit attacks other than Neutral B IIRC.

 

[Exdeath]

Is 1:13 a real combo? It looks like it might be legitimate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc6XEAsSpfE&feature=channel_video_title

I've been watching Kakera's incredible channel. He's found an interesting frame traps: Second use of MK's Fthrow on MK at 0% onto a BF platform without DI apparently has a +12 advantage after Fthrow is over (probably a guaranteed Uair/Nair).

 

[DeLux]

Orion, Player-4, Seibrik, xDeath: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=302562

that's a link to the MK STL. If you guys wanted to help come up with a standard terms list, that would be great.

The plan from here on out:

We're almost ready to release revamped frame data and character info. When we release the data, there's going to be a thread. In the thread we're going to list you guys as contacts for questioning regarding that data. If you know the answer to inquiries, please feel free to respond to it. I'm sure you'll be able to quality control each other. If there are any questions you don't know, bump it to me or the SL and we'll look into it from there.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Breakdown of Side-B

Action:
113 (SpecialSStart, SpecialAirSStart)
Change action - 119 (Animation End) [When Start ends, start Drill]
If on Ground
Change Subaction SpecialSStart
If Aerial
Chnage Subaction SpecialAirSStart
[You do the aerial start if you're in the air, grounded start on the ground]

119 (SpecialSDrill)
Change action - 11A (Animation End) [When Drill ends, start End]
Change Subaction - SpecialSDrill [No difference between aerial drill and grounded drill]

11A (SpecialSEnd, SpecialAirSEnd)
If ground
Change Subaction SpecialSEnd
Change Action - Fall (in air)
Change Action (Priority) - Standing (Animation End)
If Aerial
Change Subaction SpeicalAirSEnd
Change Action - Special Fall Landing (on ground)
Change Action (Priority) - Special Fall (Animation End)

*notes:
Ledgegrab Disabled in SpecialAirSEnd
Ledgegrab Enabled on frame 21 in SpecialDrill

and then I have the individual subactions plotted out like the other subactions.

 

[DeLux]

Awesome.

Just so we're all on the same page Seibrik, Orion, xDeath, and Player-4-

Release Order:

MK Release Thread goes out with Frame Data
MK Standard Term List Supplement
Dtilt Frame Advantage Supplement
Side Special Cancelling Supplement

The supplements get updated in the future as they get completed in terms of testing/development.

I'll start updating the OP for us to work on an MK STL.

To help direct your guys' discussion, as more panels get put together (which is happening now), it might be a good time to generate matchup specific AT discussion. I don't know if MK has any matchup specific stuff since I don't main him (the only thing I can think of is item glide tossing recatching movement stuff), but just a possible avenue of discussion.

But once the frame data comes out, it'll be up to you guys to field questions/requests that come out and also fact check each other. If there's something that's beyond your knowledge, bring it up here and we'll get some more experienced testers to handle it.

 

[Toomai]

Breakdown of Side-B

[...]

This can probably be cleaned up a fair bit.

Action 275: Side Special Initialize
Change action to Side Special Drill when animation ends
Change subaction to SideSpecialStart (if grounded) or SideSpecialAirStart (if aerial); don't restart animation if air/ground state changes in the middle

Action 281: Side Special Drill
Change action to Side Special End when animation ends
Change subaction to SideSpecialDrill

Action 282: Side Special End
If grounded:
    Change subaction to SideSpecialEnd
    Change action to Fall 1 if MK leaves the ground during animation
    Change action to Standing when animation ends
If aerial:
    Change subaction to SideSpecialAirEnd
    Change action to Special Landing if MK lands during animation
    Change action to Helpless when animation ends

You'll notice I removed things like hex numbers, condensed statements to be specific instead of general, and changed action and subaction names to be more intuitive for the layman (though I kept subactions having no spaces in order to differentiate those wich the same name as actions). I also removed the distinction between prioritized action changes and immediate action changes, since in this case they can't run into each other.

Or, we could write it in paragraph form instead:

Drill Rush has a simple progression of actions. It first starts in an initial state, which sets up some variables and chooses which of the two starting animations to use based on whether Meta Knight is on the ground or in the air. Once the starting animation is over, the move moves to its second state, which does nothing but activate the animation (and therefore the hitboxes).

After this it goes to the finishing state, which then plays the appropriate ending animation based on air/ground state and also decides what to do with Meta Knight afterwards. If the move ends on the ground, then Meta Knight will enter his standing state, unless he enters the air during the animation (maybe the platform disappeared), in which case he instantly enters the neutral falling state. If the move ends on the ground, then Meta Knight will enter helpless, unless he hits the ground during the animation, in which case he instantly does the special move landing animation.

EDIT: As requested, Dimensional Cape:

Action 227: Down Special Initialize
Create cape for animation purposes
Change action to Down Special Attack when AllPurposeBit[16] is set and either the attack button or special button is held
Change action to Down Special Non-Attack when AllPurposeBit[16] is set otherwise
Change subaction to DownSpecialStart (if grounded) or DownSpecialAirStart (if aerial); only play animation from start if not in either of those two animations already (i.e. don't restart animation if air/ground state changes in the middle)

Action 283: Down Special Attack
Change action to Standing or to Helpless when animation ends
If control stick is not tilted sideways enough to trigger a fair or bair, then use the attacking from above animations
Otherwise, if the control stick is tilted backwards, then use the attacking from behind animations
Otherwise, use the attacking from in front animations
If grounded:
    Change subaction to grounded version; if in the middle of the aerial version, then don't start animation form beginning
    Enable action change to Standing; disable action change to Helpless
If aerial:
    Change subaction to aerial version; if in the middle of the grounded version, then don't start animation form beginning
    Enable action change to Helpless; disable action change to Standing
If aerial and AllPurposeBit[16] is set, then disable action change to Helpless, allow an action change to Fall 1 (unknown circumstance), and stop checking air/ground state

Action 284: Down Special Non-Attack
Change action to Standing or to Helpless when animation ends
If grounded:
    Change subaction to grounded version; if in the middle of the aerial version, then don't start animation form beginning
    Enable action change to Standing; disable action change to Helpless
If aerial:
    Change subaction to aerial version; if in the middle of the grounded version, then don't start animation form beginning
    Enable action change to Helpless; disable action change to Standing

Definately harder to deal with and has a lower degree of certainty.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

(i.e. don't restart animation if air/ground state changes in the middle)

Just wanted to note this needs testing to see if it's not being triggered which causes IDC.

 

[Exdeath]

What is the frame data/frame advantage(s) for item tosses (bananas being particularly relevant) would be nice. Toss, Smash Toss, Glide Toss, Glide Smash Toss, Jump-Cancel Toss, Jump-Cancel Smash Toss, Instant Toss, Instant Smash Toss, etc.

 

[Exdeath]

Can someone please tell me how many frames MK can hold his shield for and what frame is the last frame before his shield breaks?

Also if you were to let go before it broke on the very last frame, how many frames would it take to recharge fully?

I'm also interested in the answers to this.

 

[Toomai]

All characters' shields are identical in terms of how long they can be held and replenished (though I think Yoshi has a frame or two of difference somewhere). Shields start at 50 health and drop by 0.28 per frame - that's ~178.5 frames (~3 seconds). Shields regenerate at 0.07 per frame, so from theoretical 0 it would be fully charged after ~714.25 frames (~11.9 seconds).

 

[DeLux]

Metaknight panel, can we arrange a real time skype meeting within the near future?

 

[Exdeath]

Does anyone know how many frames it takes to cancel a glide? I'm also curious as to if canceling it in air will be longer or shorter than canceling it into the ground. It could have IASA frames and such, so that would be worth investigation.

I don't know whether or not this is already included in the frame data being prepared.

 

[Orion*]

Metaknight panel, can we arrange a real time skype meeting within the near future?

We really should do this

More work could get done on my end :x

 

[Exdeath]

I would like to see possible ways to achieve a perfect Nair (landing and hitting on the last possible frame supposedly makes it -2 on block).

 

[Orion*]

I would like to see possible ways to achieve a perfect Nair (landing and hitting on the last possible frame supposedly makes it -2 on block).

if you can get it near perfect its still gay because at this point in the metagame nobody knows how gay it is so you can usually just buffer grab and they hesitate

 

[Exdeath]

I'm already doing that during quick pressure (especially with a cross-up) or if someone has a habit of staying in shield after Dair. I still want to get it perfect, though.