Meta Knight Gameplay and Strategy Discussion thread

[Kappy]

Whoooaaa Fthrow and Uthrow are good! LOL. They're DI traps. You can actually get IDC/Uair/Fair/Nair out of a poorly DI'd Fthrow, and sometimes it throws the opponent off at low % for tech chasing. Against floaties at lower %'s, you can get a falling Uair or something cooler than that out of Uthrow, and at mid - high %'s you can IDC out of it off of poor DI. And because MK generally doesn't use those two throws, you can def get some good reward. Surprise KO's are the best KO's!

Also against FF'ers you can Uthrow and Dair right afterward to try and be flashy with a weird tech chase but I'd only use that for style points. LOL.

Best way to deal with projectiles is to pick a stage with platforms.

 

[Espi]

I feel like F-Throw is a much better DI trap, since you have like 72 frames to DI U-Throw.

 

[Kappy]

Oh Fthrow probably is, but DI'ing away from Uthrow is what results in an IDC, and that's usually the DI people want. LOL. You have to do some funky DI on Uthrow to not get hit by IDC when at the right % for it. I don't actually know what it is because kids usually just DI away.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Yea..uthrow isn't a trap but it has some low % use against FF.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Most people who know how to DI MK's uthrow properly will go behind and MK can't do much off that.

 

[MegaAmoonguss]

I don't ever use F-Throw just because I never saw what to do with it. Up B, up air, and nair sounds like a really good though, I'll have to go into the lab, I just never really thought you could get a true combo like that and have just always been able to use D-Throw instead. Sounds good though!

For Up-Throw, I do like doing it, but only in very specific situations. You need to have it so the opponent pops up at MK's height, that way you can either get an easy nair or easy IDC. I know I can use it on Sheik at mid percents and get conversions, but it's just I don't know when to use it with most characters. Like I don't think I've ever gotten a follow up against spacies with it, as opposed to someone who falls a little slower, such as Sheik again.

 

[leekslap]

Most people who know how to DI MK's uthrow properly will go behind and MK can't do much off that.

Can't you just do a turnaround lunge after up throw if they DI to be in back? As in inputting this:
(so that he goes as far as a lunge)(MK was facing left after up throw)
I think forward throw is better unless you are a god with knowledge of percents and when to up throw. I don't know why so many Meta Knights use it.

One of the main reasons, aside from getting better myself, I made this thread was to help out your guide. Also because I won't get bashed for saying something like Link is better than Mario and Falco is better than Fox( in Melee )in a bigger thread in General Discussion. MK mains are cool.

 

[Kappy]

When MK uses IDC, he only gets full range when you input the direction he's already facing. Inputting Down or Up on the C-Stick will cause him to stay in place (and move upwards and come back down), and inputting the opposite direction will cause him to move backwards a tiny bit.

So if they do DI behind MK and they're close enough, you could do an IDC Up or Down and just turn MK around with the joystick at the end and it might hit them. I've never been in that situation so I'd have to experience it for myself. LOL. I use UThrow like once or twice a set so I don't come into many DI situations with it often.

 

[Espi]

Btw, U-Throw in dubs is pretty good. But then again so are all throws lol.

 

[leekslap]

Let's discuss the viability of the dair "Meta Knightcide"( ? ). Ya know, we should come up with some universally accepted names for techs so it won't get confusing. All I got for the up b slide/land-with-the-top-part-of-the-loop thing is "Loop Sliding". Or "Loop Canceling". Oh and I posted some noteworthy stuff about the Mewtwo and Pit matchup on the thread: MKs Worst MUs?. Mainly that you can loop slide/cancel on Battlefield's top platform if you up b in half the height of your short hop and that b reversing it could be useful.

 

[MegaAmoonguss]

Dair suicide is amazing last stock. I really don't like doing it unless I'm going to win the game because comebacks are always possible, but it's a great way to style on the last stock while effectively getting the kill.

In my opinion, it's best versus spacies because you can get them before their up b starts actually moving quite easily, and if you manage to hit them when they are moving then you trade and survive anyways.

 

[Espi]

Did anyone see Plank vs TC1 at the last Xanadu? I've never seen an MK camp that hard. I guess you could say that he was Planking (sorry).

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Did anyone see Plank vs TC1 at the last Xanadu? I've never seen an MK camp that hard. I guess you could say that he was Planking (sorry).

M2k would put him to shame if he played PM mk

 

[Espi]

I think M2K said once that he would play PM MK if it didn't mess with his Brawl MK. If only.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Let's discuss the viability of the dair "Meta Knightcide"( ? ). Ya know, we should come up with some universally accepted names for techs so it won't get confusing. All I got for the up b slide/land-with-the-top-part-of-the-loop thing is "Loop Sliding". Or "Loop Canceling". Oh and I posted some noteworthy stuff about the Mewtwo and Pit matchup on the thread: MKs Worst MUs?. Mainly that you can loop slide/cancel on Battlefield's top platform if you up b in half the height of your short hop and that b reversing it could be useful.

ASL On Stage name: ASL On Stage
Loop cancel wouldn't work because the only reason why it can cancel is because edge mechanics. ASL Edge Cancel.
Dair name: Dair. That is what it is.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I think M2K said once that he would play PM MK if it didn't mess with his Brawl MK. If only.

I mean, smash 4 is about to shut brawl down, once we give the wiiu verison some time. So maybe then.

 

[leekslap]

ASL On Stage name: ASL On Stage
Loop cancel wouldn't work because the only reason why it can cancel is because edge mechanics. ASL Edge Cancel.
Dair name: Dair. That is what it is.

Come on, don't be so uninspired! How about a name for the juggling-to-the-top-of-stage-with-up-air-and-finishing-with-up-b thing? I really want to call it the "rollercoaster". Or the"Tyrant", but it's not as good.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Come on, don't be so uninspired! How about a name for the juggling-to-the-top-of-stage-with-up-air-and-finishing-with-up-b thing? I really want to call it the "rollercoaster". Or the"Tyrant", but it's not as good.

Up Air ASL. Lol we think of names when an MK starts doing really well.

 

[Kappy]

I call Rising Uair -> Falling Uair -> Rising Uair -> Falling Uair -> Rising Uair the Rollercoaster because that's what it looks like sometimes. LOL. Naming a combo or tech is entirely up to the player and may be accepted by their local community or even the greater Smash community if there are some notable players of the character and if a lot of people play the character.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Yall could never be in the K.N.D

 

[Espi]

I do the "Rollercoaster" all the time. But I never would of thought of calling it a rollercoaster lol. My region would be like "Look, he's doing the usual Uair chain again, nothing to see here, I'd be like nope I'm just doing the rollercoaster."

Edit: Also no more **** posts from me lol.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Yeah should just be called uair chains. We don't need dumb names for every combo. Do you see names for Marth's
Up Tilt to Dair
Up Throw CG
Back Throw to Pivot Reverse Up B
Up Air into Up Air into Up Air
Dash Attack to Up Tilt

I don't.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Yeah should just be called uair chains. We don't need dumb names for every combo. Do you see names for Marth's
Up Tilt to Dair
Up Throw CG
Back Throw to Pivot Reverse Up B
Up Air into Up Air into Up Air
Dash Attack to Up Tilt

I don't.

Up throw cg = the m2k special
Anything to dair = 3rd base
Buncha uairs = gay
Dash ATK to utilt = spam

 

[victinivcreate1]

Up throw cg = the m2k special
Anything to dair = 3rd base
Buncha uairs = gay
Dash ATK to utilt = spam

None of those names you commonly hear. I don't even hear other Marth's say that. Only thing I've actually heard was the up throw being the Hancock, but thats it.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

None of those names you commonly hear. I don't even hear other Marth's say that. Only thing I've actually heard was the up throw being the Hancock, but thats it.

Aside from the first, I was lion. I do hear dumpster a bit when I see a dair. Not as much as I used to tho.

 

[Kappy]

victini Math's Fair -> Fair -> Dair is commonly known as (and called) the Ken Combo. LOL. If you don't want names for MK's stuff that's great; just refer to everything as it actually is. Preaching about how we shouldn't be calling certain combos or moves names, however, is a waste of your time.

 

[victinivcreate1]

victini Math's Fair -> Fair -> Dair is commonly known as (and called) the Ken Combo. LOL. If you don't want names for MK's stuff that's great; just refer to everything as it actually is. Preaching about how we shouldn't be calling certain combos or moves names, however, is a waste of your time.

I didn't mention Ken Combo because that's too obvious. Its a given. There is a reason why I listed most of the other Marth combos BUT fair dair

 

[leekslap]

Yeah should just be called uair chains. We don't need dumb names for every combo. Do you see names for Marth's
Up Tilt to Dair
Up Throw CG
Back Throw to Pivot Reverse Up B
Up Air into Up Air into Up Air
Dash Attack to Up Tilt

I don't.

It's just to shorten the name and make it less of a mouthful. Same as you did with the whole lunge/spin/deflect thing

 

[victinivcreate1]

Eh I see now.

 

[leekslap]

TIME FOR 3.5 MK DISCUSSION VIABILITY RANKINGS ON SMOGON WHICH I ABANDONED SINCE THEY BANNED MEGA MAWILE AND THAT'S ACTUALLY WHERE MY NAME CAME FROM. THE POKEMON FARFETCH'D

too much exposition man

So everybody's been whining about the nerfs and frankly they don't bother me at all. Maybe it's a playstyle thing but Meta Knight can't spam things like before and he's a much better gimper which makes him feel even more like a combination of the Melee top tiers. His fair actually connects now and his dair is much more useful than before but still situational. His IDC is slower, his down throw is more like Brawl MK and Brawl Falco, his nair seems to have less range or priority, and his rollercoasters are less reliable forms of killing floaties. Before, Meta Knight would almost never gimp but now I can gimp any character. His tilts and smashes are still amazing so I can still play Poker. He can't stuff people completely anymore too. You have to play a smart kind of aggressive to succeed with Meta Knight. Now onto down throw followups and Fox matchup for kicks:

Down throw fallowups
- regrab
- up smash ( dacus much better now btw )
- nair
- down tilt
- forward tilt
- fair
- up air
- down smash
- techchase

TEH FAX MU
What Meta Knight has against Fox:
- easy edgeguards and gimps
- techchases
- outranges in most of Fox's moves
- combos harder than hard
- resistance against up smash
What Fox has against Meta Knight:
- laserz
- free shine spike if you recover with neutral b
- free down smash if you recover with side b
- unrivaled pressure
- kill moves in all directions

You cannot be aggressive in this matchup. You have to bait an approach with movement and your spacing has to be excellent. Get him offstage and he's done for. His nair beats your nair and your OoS game has to be good to avoid being multishined pillared to death. Platforms and small stages are your friend. Avoid going offstage as if you were a spacie yourself and instead edgeguard with safe fairs, down tilts, and down smashes. Meta Knight can combo but you should focus on gimping. Lasers will be a gigantic pain so you are the one who has to close the distance without overextending.

 

[AlmightySo]

TIME FOR 3.5 MK DISCUSSION VIABILITY RANKINGS ON SMOGON WHICH I ABANDONED SINCE THEY BANNED MEGA MAWILE AND THAT'S ACTUALLY WHERE MY NAME CAME FROM. THE POKEMON FARFETCH'D

too much exposition man

So everybody's been whining about the nerfs and frankly they don't bother me at all. Maybe it's a playstyle thing but Meta Knight can't spam things like before and he's a much better gimper which makes him feel even more like a combination of the Melee top tiers. His fair actually connects now and his dair is much more useful than before but still situational. His IDC is slower, his down throw is more like Brawl MK and Brawl Falco, his nair seems to have less range or priority, and his rollercoasters are less reliable forms of killing floaties. Before, Meta Knight would almost never gimp but now I can gimp any character. His tilts and smashes are still amazing so I can still play Poker. He can't stuff people completely anymore too. You have to play a smart kind of aggressive to succeed with Meta Knight. Now onto down throw followups and Fox matchup for kicks:

Down throw fallowups
- regrab
- up smash ( dacus much better now btw )
- nair
- down tilt
- forward tilt
- fair
- up air
- down smash
- techchase

TEH FAX MU
What Meta Knight has against Fox:
- easy edgeguards and gimps
- techchases
- outranges in most of Fox's moves
- combos harder than hard
- resistance against up smash
What Fox has against Meta Knight:
- laserz
- free shine spike if you recover with neutral b
- free down smash if you recover with side b
- unrivaled pressure
- kill moves in all directions

You cannot be aggressive in this matchup. You have to bait an approach with movement and your spacing has to be excellent. Get him offstage and he's done for. His nair beats your nair and your OoS game has to be good to avoid being multishined pillared to death. Platforms and small stages are your friend. Avoid going offstage as if you were a spacie yourself and instead edgeguard with safe fairs, down tilts, and down smashes. Meta Knight can combo but you should focus on gimping. Lasers will be a gigantic pain so you are the one who has to close the distance without overextending.

3.02 dair was way better than 3.5 dair.

 

[leekslap]

3.02 dair was way better than 3.5 dair.

FAIR enough lol

 

[AlmightySo]

FAIR enough lol

lol free recovery on to stage and resets position.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Maybe
But this dair can be used in more combo/spacing situations and edge gaurds than the old one. One could argue, it has more applications.

The old dair for sure by-passed most mix ups when trying to get back to the ground, it had some what limited combo applications, couldn't be used in edge gaurds much, had a bad hitbox, but it could be used to open characters up.(like m2)

This new dair can be used in edge gaurds more, it has a wider application for useage in your combos, seems to work well during tech chases. Etc. I think it has more going for it...

 

[Weeezy]

"The old dair for sure by-passed most mix ups when trying to get back to the ground, it had some what limited combo applications, couldn't be used in edge gaurds much, had a bad hitbox, but it could be used to open characters up.(like m2)"

I'd have to disagree old Dair had less combos with it, but it set up for combos like crazy! In addition to being a reset if you had unfavorable position in the air and another form of recovery from high[/quote]

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

"The old dair for sure by-passed most mix ups when trying to get back to the ground, it had some what limited combo applications, couldn't be used in edge gaurds much, had a bad hitbox, but it could be used to open characters up.(like m2)"

I'd have to disagree old Dair had less combos with it, but it set up for combos like crazy! In addition to being a reset if you had unfavorable position in the air and another form of recovery from high

[/quote]
Crouch cancel really denied the old dair from being the end all beat all approach/combo starter.

 

[leekslap]

"The old dair for sure by-passed most mix ups when trying to get back to the ground, it had some what limited combo applications, couldn't be used in edge gaurds much, had a bad hitbox, but it could be used to open characters up.(like m2)"

I'd have to disagree old Dair had less combos with it, but it set up for combos like crazy! In addition to being a reset if you had unfavorable position in the air and another form of recovery from high

[/quote]
No offense, but it's hillarious how you literally "quoted" ez's post. I'm sorry but lol! You can "quote" by clicking "Reply" which is below the actual post and signature and waaaay to the right.

What combo set ups? A free up tilt? Meta Knight's up air combos are much less potent now, and his old dive kick was predictable as death. I think it was a good decision to get rid of it. Work on your wording too.

Welcome to Smashboards? Lol so honest it hurts

 

[-Ran]

I think that when they resized MK, they didn't increase his shield size. I'm getting poked at a fresh shield via Diddy's banana. Anyone else noticing this? It also appears that as part of his change, his hitboxes are now into the interior of the white glow on his sword swings.

 

[Weeezy]

No offense, but it's hillarious how you literally "quoted" ez's post. I'm sorry but lol! You can "quote" by clicking "Reply" which is below the actual post and signature and waaaay to the right.

What combo set ups? A free up tilt? Meta Knight's up air combos are much less potent now, and his old dive kick was predictable as death. I think it was a good decision to get rid of it. Work on your wording too.

Welcome to Smashboards? Lol so honest it hurts[/quote]

LOL yeah I tried doing this quoting thing, but I was a scrub and kept having my reply attached to the quote xD hopefully this doesn't happen again with this. And yeah it could lead to up tilts, f tilt, d smash. And if it was crouch canceled/shielded you would be punished or could use MK's fast roll to roll away. This is why I didn't find it necessary to take away cause it was very punishable. Maybe just too good as an option to avoid a bad situation in the air and reset back to neutral.


Edit: I clicked reply and didn't do anything besides add my comment so idk, I'm still a scrub on Smashboards and will eventually learn

 

[leekslap]

No offense, but it's hillarious how you literally "quoted" ez's post. I'm sorry but lol! You can "quote" by clicking "Reply" which is below the actual post and signature and waaaay to the right.

What combo set ups? A free up tilt? Meta Knight's up air combos are much less potent now, and his old dive kick was predictable as death. I think it was a good decision to get rid of it. Work on your wording too.

Welcome to Smashboards? Lol so honest it hurts

LOL yeah I tried doing this quoting thing, but I was a scrub and kept having my reply attached to the quote xD hopefully this doesn't happen again with this. And yeah it could lead to up tilts, f tilt, d smash. And if it was crouch canceled/shielded you would be punished or could use MK's fast roll to roll away. This is why I didn't find it necessary to take away cause it was very punishable. Maybe just too good as an option to avoid a bad situation in the air and reset back to neutral.


Edit: I clicked reply and didn't do anything besides add my comment so idk, I'm still a scrub on Smashboards and will eventually learn [/quote]
Yeah no worries, you're getting better. I think they "nerfed" his dair and loop slide because they say it as "excessive burst movement". And isn't MK's roll slow? I know for a fact, his tech roll is garbage but I'm not sure if their is a difference.

Speaking of recovery, I'm not liking the nerfs at all. Size b doesn't seem to snap to the ledge, neutral b is too vulnerable, same for down b, no loop slide, and waaay less jumps. I recover better with Falco! Tell me how to recover!