Meta Knight Gameplay and Strategy Discussion thread

[leekslap]

I'm surprised this isn't a thing yet. Basically, this is where we'll pool all our MK knowledge togetther about combos, strategies, mindgames, etc. Partly inspired by a Ganondorf thread that showed me just how deep of a character Ganon can be. I know there's other threads with MK knowledge, but it is scattered or it's a guide that usually isn't the optimal place for discussion.

I'll start us off by saying I really like to use the first two hits of fair. I do it near to the ground so the mediocre third hit doesn't come out. Sometimes it works anyway in the air if its a floaty or he's SDIing up or I'm fast falling it. I've been able to get a down tilt, forward tilt, up air, nair, up b, and even grab, and IDC out of this!

Some basic guarenteed combos:
- down tilt to nair
- up tilt/up smash to up air to up b
- ( weak ) nair to down smash
- forward tilt/down tilt to up air
- up air to bair
- down throw to nair/IDC
- up air chains ( my favorite )
- dash attack to forward tilt/up tilt

No neccesarily the best you can do with a combo but generally a starter for more complex combos.

Fo the record, grounded up b is criminally underused.

 

[MegaAmoonguss]

We sort of have something like this around here but it died out pretty fast lol, and this one seems much more organized. I'll add onto it in the near future, can't wait to see how it turns out!

 

[MegaAmoonguss]

Oh one quick thing I like to do to spacies is down throw -> first hit f-tilt as a jab reset before they hit the ground. They don't usually expect this so they won't really act out of it usually and can't do much except shield for a few frames until you grab them again.

The follow up grab is by no means guaranteed, however it is still very effective and the trick works even at mid percent. They can't do anything unless they know you're going to try to do this and roll immediately as they hit the ground, it just works because most people will press or hold a shoulder button to tech. Much easier than tech chasing and a great mix up mid set =3

 

[leekslap]

I just found out you can stop the up b glide with the jump button instead of using the glide attack or aiming it up.

 

[MegaAmoonguss]

It's sooooooo good for recovering due to the way it stops a lot of the momentum. You can bait an aerial and just cancel it with jump and they will miss 90% of the time and that 10% where they hit is because you messed up.

 

[AlmightySo]

sometimes on battlefield or any stage where im under a platform at low percents i like to upthrow onto the platform if i feel like i can get a good techchase.

 

[Espi]

omg, I have so many things to share with you guys.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

After I wake up, I has stuff to input.

 

[MegaAmoonguss]

Another cool thing I remember I have seen but I have not used or heard of anywhere else is a way of extending the range of d-throw -> IDC. I think it was Kappy who did a very brief dash -> SH immediate IDC and it seemed to work and got him much farther forward. Anybody know if this actually is a thing that works? Or is it just for like platform reads or whatever? To me it seems like it could work for when down throw IDC is unable to work by like 5%, but maybe it's actually useful, I have no idea.

 

[leekslap]

sometimes on battlefield or any stage where im under a platform at low percents i like to upthrow onto the platform if i feel like i can get a good techchase.

Up throw is strictly a mixup for me since its so darn easy to DI. Either that or you are a god at using DC and IDC and you can just folow DI. For the record, you can maximize mobility by landing in the top part of his up b loop thing before gliding. I know everybody knows about it but its just for the record. Also, more elaborating on grounded up b:

- very fast
- very strong
- is an anti air/SHFFL
- is more useful on stages like Dreamland and Skyword where it's super safe and slide s you to the top platform and maybe allows followups
- can be hard to punish so is safe
- good range

Also, which Meta Knight playstyle do you imagine to be better: aggro like K9 or defense like Plup? I've always leaned towards more cerebral( mindgames and mixups [ why I main Ganon ] )and defensive play ( not saying being aggro is not cerebral ), but its all a matter of taste. If you want to speak in Darth Bane's language, I'm a Poker and a Pressurer.

 

[MegaAmoonguss]

So GSL's hitbox comes out on frame 8 and we already know it has mad knockback. Seems like a pretty good OoS option, I'm just not 100% sure when I should use it over, for example, nair OoS (should be able to come out on frame 6 if it remember correctly) or one ok MK's lightning speed rolls (for more specific situations).

I usually just have tap jump off to make up air chains more controllable (some weird personal preference I guess) but I might have to go into the lab with it tomorrow and see what I can do

 

[AlmightySo]

i play really aggressive so closer to k9s playstyle but i feel that defensive mk might be the best way to play. Cant change my playstyle though lol.

 

[GuruKid]

So GSL's hitbox comes out on frame 8 and we already know it has mad knockback. Seems like a pretty good OoS option, I'm just not 100% sure when I should use it over, for example, nair OoS (should be able to come out on frame 6 if it remember correctly) or one ok MK's lightning speed rolls (for more specific situations).

I'm a big fan of Nair OoS because its speed and coverage is just amazing but if I'm on a Battlefield-like stage with platforms above me when I'm shielding I'll sometimes opt for Up B OoS; if you're good with edge-canceling glides it's a pretty nice escape option. I don't see much use for it outside that situation though since WD OoS and even rolls do well for MK to escape pressure too.

i play really aggressive so closer to k9s playstyle but i feel that defensive mk might be the best way to play. Cant change my playstyle though lol.

An overall aggressive playstye can work really well for MK but I remember you mentioning you had trouble vs Bowser when we played in-person; that sort of matchup would be a really really good example of when you're better off playing more defensively and patiently, scouting for openings and carefully baiting out a bad approach from the Bowser.

 

[AlmightySo]

I'm a big fan of Nair OoS because its speed and coverage is just amazing but if I'm on a Battlefield-like stage with platforms above me when I'm shielding I'll sometimes opt for Up B OoS; if you're good with edge-canceling glides it's a pretty nice escape option. I don't see much use for it outside that situation though since WD OoS and even rolls do well for MK to escape pressure too.



An overall aggressive playstye can work really well for MK but I remember you mentioning you had trouble vs Bowser when we played in-person; that sort of matchup would be a really really good example of when you're better off playing more defensively and patiently, scouting for openings and carefully baiting out a bad approach from the Bowser.

Yea i tell myself i should play more patient but in the end i just end up playing aggresive Really bad habit of mine.

 

[leekslap]

Does anyone do CC down b? I know MK's CC isn't that strong but since IDC can move a bit, it really doesn't have to. I had a cool moment where I accidently IDC'd forward after CC and beat a level 9 Fox I was bodying. 4 stock to be exact. I wish Meta Knights used all these 20XX tricks.

Yea i tell myself i should play more patient but in the end i just end up playing aggresive Really bad habit of mine.

I'm only aggressive with spacies but when I'm switching mindsets to MK or Ganon, I just tell myself to think amd mindgame and stuff.

 

[Espi]

I feel like GSL OOS is better at low'ish percent's because he can get more followups. But Nair OOS can setup an edge guarding opportunity at higher percent's and as it turns-out, MK is really good at edge guarding.

Also ya I CC IDC, but only when I'm 100% sure it'll work, otherwise I'm gonna get punished.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I think it's good to have a mix of the styles, because some styles can destroy certain characters/players easier and it's just nice to be able to transition between the two with minimum effort.

Something I mentioned a bit ago; uairs during edge guards/offstage game. This is something I don't see very much. It's pretty much great at any %. An ez setup would be, zard is at 0% or some low number, dthrow, run right off the stage and uair. It's amazing cause you can do a lot of crap to people who don't Di right like IDC, more uairs, upb's, just dair for lulz, upb's etc and at higher % if they do Di right, it puts them in an ez mode edge guard. If they know about the smash Di down thing for uair, idk, I haven't run into anyone who knows about it.

I also feel like I don't see a lot of mix ups coming after a Nair has been hit. Like you can just tomahawk if you space the Nair or you can full hop uair, if the uair hits combo, if nah fall on them with something or jump to safety. Some characters can stop this, so you can't excatly blow evrrone up with it, but it's still amazing. I think I posted a video where I did this a few times against a falcon.

LEMME watch some MK's real quick

 

[Jolteon]

You can do uair -> footstool off-stage. The outer uair hitboxes also send at a more horizontal angle (60), so you can use it to gimp fastfallers.

 

[Espi]

Anyone have any other set-ups for footstools? I'm looking to implement it into my game.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

You can do uair -> footstool off-stage. The outer uair hitboxes also send at a more horizontal angle (60), so you can use it to gimp fastfallers.

PLZ create one more button
PMBR Y NO CREATE UNO MAOR BUTTON
I already use them all :[[[
Edit
I do love being in that moment where I'm under fox, while off stage b/c one uair = death.

Anyone have any other set-ups for footstools? I'm looking to implement it into my game.

I haven't messed with footstools, but you might be able to do it after, dtilt, weak nair and the weird, sick part of fair that lets you do almost any move afterword. That's just me brainstorming tho.

 

[Espi]

I use R for my footstools as I use L for my L-Cancels, Wavedashing, and Shield. Here is a list of setups for footstools that might work depending on percentage.

• Uair, D-Tilt, reverse Bair (weak reverse Bair?), last 2 hits of fair, weak Nair, U-Tilt, U-Smash.

Footstool over the stage leads into Dair which leads into te sik comboooozzzz.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Imma try placing Footstool to R
So I can actually use it

 

[MegaAmoonguss]

I have to use X to footstool because I use my shoulder buttons weird. I use R to shield and L-Cancel and L to wavedash.

I guess it helps with wavedash OoS, but it's definitely weirder to footstool than by pressing a shoulder button from my quick experience with Espi's layout in training mode.

 

[leekslap]

I have to use X to footstool because I use my shoulder buttons weird. I use R to shield and L-Cancel and L to wavedash.

I guess it helps with wavedash OoS, but it's definitely weirder to footstool than by pressing a shoulder button from my quick experience with Espi's layout in training mode.

I just realized... We have the same mains!

lol

Um... How do you peeps edgeguard with MK? See? Now its a relevant post! No, seriously how do I edgeguard with MK? I feel like I have less trouble with Ganon!

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I just realized... We have the same mains!

lol

Um... How do you peeps edgeguard with MK? See? Now its a relevant post! No, seriously how do I edgeguard with MK? I feel like I have less trouble with Ganon!

Watch k9 for visuals. A lot of MK's moveset will do wonders for edge guards, so get creative. All you really need to do, is just get them off stage and land a fair followed by another one. That's a bit simple, but it works. For characters with a lot of jumps, uair can be helpful. There are a plethora of options, so mess around and watch vids.

 

[leekslap]

Watch k9 for visuals. A lot of MK's moveset will do wonders for edge guards, so get creative. All you really need to do, is just get them off stage and land a fair followed by another one. That's a bit simple, but it works. For characters with a lot of jumps, uair can be helpful. There are a plethora of options, so mess around and watch vids.

Fair sends them back on stage sometimes. Whenever I try to space down tilt, sometimes it pops them up instead. Bair is slow so I get hit by an up b or something. Sometimes, I SD if I nair. Down smash at the ledge doesn't work too. I just wanna know the best way to edgeguard...

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Fair sends them back on stage sometimes. Whenever I try to space down tilt, sometimes it pops them up instead. Bair is slow so I get hit by an up b or something. Sometimes, I SD if I nair. Down smash at the ledge doesn't work too. I just wanna know the best way to edgeguard...

Space fair and it won't send them back to the stage. If your dtilt sends them up, you aren't spacing correctly. You're to close. Set up/space bair so it, I don't know, hits!? Your messing up hard if you sd from nair. Dsmash works... Most of your problems come from bad spacing. Good edge gaurds are a result of good spacing and mix ups. You will need both to be successful at edge gaurding.

 

[Espi]

List of things MK can edgeguard with. I will expand upon this later.

• F-Smash, D-Smash, D-Tilt (tip of the sword), Fair, Nair, outer edge of Uair, Back Air, IDC to regrab ledge (kinda pointless), Dair to an opponents Up-B that knocks you back up like Snakes Cypher, Firefox, Firebird, (more I'm forgetting).

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

@ Espi you're talking about the looping part of up B, right? If so, I've gotten a few gimps by mistake with that.

 

[Espi]

@ Espi you're talking about the looping part of up B, right? If so, I've gotten a few gimps by mistake with that.

Sorry, didn't word that correctly. I was talking about MK's Dair into an opponents Up-B which spikes them and knocks you back up. But I've used SL in to Gimp in a few situations.

 

[leekslap]

What do you think are the most important things to practice as a Meta Knight? I've lost some practice and gotten some bad habits because I was spending too much time training my Falco and Ganon ( since I had to make a frickin guide for him ).

 

[AlmightySo]

Not being scared to go off stage and knowing when to techchase or IDC from down throw are probably two very important things to practice as metaknight.

 

[AlmightySo]

Also understanding when to nair vs up b is something ive been trying to fix with myself.

 

[Kappy]

The dash -> SH -> IDC after DThrow only works on floaty characters at higher percents. Ivysaur is probably the perfect character to practice it on. Also works on GW. Obviously it's a little DI dependent, but you get incredible results because they're most likely holding up and away to try and get away from you after DThrow.

In terms of what you want to practice, I'd go with tech chasing and combo game. MK needs to punish hard when he hits, so make sure you know your hit confirms and what you can do in any given situation, especially when people are trying to DI your combos.

I've got a lot of cool combos because I'm hella aggressive so I'll put some up for you guys later when I'm not busy!

 

[leekslap]

OK, so I've been practicing a lot and I still want to get better. My spacing, edgeguarding, and mindgames are back on track, but my techchasing is not. I think my main problem generally is not capitalizing off a grab as well as I want to. With Falco, I try to do an up throw to up air/dair, and either I miss the up air( maybe its because up throw to up air isn't a thing with Falco or maybe its because up air has a small hitbox that can be SDI's out of )or don't capitalize on the dair unless its at the ledge, where up throw to dair works wonders for spiking. With Meta Knight, I'm never sure which throw to use and what to do after it. The only exception is Falcon and Ganon, but Ganon chaingrabs for days with down throw and can get any hit off of it, and Falcon can do any throw to knee and call it a day. What can I do? What should I know? And what's Meta Knights best way to approach and deal with projectiles. I'm a pretty good powershielder, but Meta Knight's shield is so small.

 

[leekslap]

The dash -> SH -> IDC after DThrow only works on floaty characters at higher percents. Ivysaur is probably the perfect character to practice it on. Also works on GW. Obviously it's a little DI dependent, but you get incredible results because they're most likely holding up and away to try and get away from you after DThrow.

In terms of what you want to practice, I'd go with tech chasing and combo game. MK needs to punish hard when he hits, so make sure you know your hit confirms and what you can do in any given situation, especially when people are trying to DI your combos.

I've got a lot of cool combos because I'm hella aggressive so I'll put some up for you guys later when I'm not busy!

My punish game is so amazing you won't even realize you got punished. I can read like a ****ing librarian.

 

[victinivcreate1]

IMO GuruKid's pressure style is the best. He forces you to shield and we know that MK gets good stuff off grabs.
The hardest style I think MK has is the defensive poker, because its ground based.

My style is a mix of Poker/Pressurer, but my style translates to all my other characters lol. I'll play defense and when the opponent messes up, gdlk punish 4me

Also there are LONG sections on punishes/playstyles in my guide you know. This kinda puts all my work to waste lol

One thing to practice MKs, ledgedashes:
PLZ PRACTICE THIS. We get 10 frames of actionable invulnerability on a frame perfect one. These things are awesome. In ten frames you could be dashing towards center stage and 2/3 the way there, and only have the speed to keep up with you. You can do a lot of invincible moves, some of them are pretty gdlk (cough nair).

EDIT: I'll be taking snips of info here and there from this thread and updating my own guide accordingly.

 

[MegaAmoonguss]

@ leekslap For grabs, just use down throw and back throw. Those are MK's only throws, like literally just never do up throw and nothing will be complicated. For spacies, I like to just tech chase. I'll do down throw for the most part and just get as many regrabs as I can, and maybe sometimes mix it up with back throw.

When they're at a high enough percent, I'll do one of 2 things. I'll try to dash attack and start something off of that if they're closer to center stage, but if they're near enough to the edge, I'll just down throw IDC.

I do agree that it is hard getting follow ups though, as you can't really do things like SH up air or nair or other things like that, it's all pretty limited. It's just all practice and experience, you'll get better at it, and even I'm still improving this area.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

How to tech chase.
Downthrow, then wait, watch and act. You have a lot of time and a lot of techs are slow.

@ leekslap ... Your post is so long for me right now.. What are you even asking?

EDIT: @ MegaAmoonguss you forgot about fthrow. It's very good once you apply Di mix ups. Getting a up b, down b or any kill move from it is very easy if it is setup.

 

[Espi]

I use F-Throw as a DI trap sometimes. But tech chasing with MK is super easy to react to, so just work on that.