Meta Knight Chain Grab Release [Vid]

[Steel]

This is me doing it against a level 9 meta knight in training mode. If you let meta knight hit the ground first then you are doing it too slow and it is possible for him to escape. This is hard to do and requires precise timing. All of the grabs look pretty much the same, but :44 and :50 were the best timed ones in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nngWNYPT320

Discuss.

EDIT: Meta Knight can jump out of the chain grab a split second before you grab again. This doesn't matter though, the potential of this jump release is huge. This can set up to many kills. Tipped fairs, tipped dairs, among others.

 

[ZHMT]

Yep, there it is. I was doing it wrong lol. Thanks for the vid. This is something I will definitely be using.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

It looks pretty cool, but I would like to see it against a human, and I am curious what happens if the MK tries to ground release.

 

[VietGeek]

It looks pretty cool, but I would like to see it against a human, and I am curious what happens if the MK tries to ground release.

If he struggles out by himself, it'll always be an air release, allowing you to follow up with your favorite move or you can grab and do a few jabs before stopping to allow him to fly out of your hands again.

If you mash it constantly and let the game dictate the release by percentage, then MK will fly out and lunge back at you, but will allow him to shield/roll away. If he doesn't get out though, you are free to chaingrab him again, preferably letting him go into the air, then follow up with a tippered Fair or a dash canceled Usmash (hyphen smash).

MK is easier for me then the Wario to reverse Fsmash trick. That's my opinion though. Marth's grab game is still pretty **** good. ^^

~ 10ROBs

Important Edit/Concern: Steel, have you tried it on a CPU on "Attack?" They might have a split second to jump away with another jump before you can CG. When the CPU is set on Jump, it for some reason it doesn't try [as hard] to escape grabs. The "Attack" mode of the CPUs is more polished it seems. I saw a significant change from Jump to Attack. The CG still seems to be possible, but there seems to be a window where MK can activate a second jump and Nair your face.

You should test this again on Attack and see if you can CG just as well. It may be my timing, but it seems like MK can get out of it if the foe wises up. Kinda like the other grab release CGs. The CPUs are so inconsistent though that I need to do it with a human partner to fully confirm.

But just so you know, I was able to CG from one end of FD to the other while the CPU 9 was on Attack as well. It just seems like you'll get more accurate results on how and when MK can escape if you set it to the offense.

If you already tried it on Attack and it still works, then I guess I have your uber timing skillz as well and the concern was misplaced.

inb4you'retooslow

 

[Galeon]

unless metaknight has his own ground break rule, that first part is incorrect. You can mash out of a grab using a and b and mash left to right to make yourself ground break. As long as you didn't/aren't spamming a jump button when you escape the grab you'll be on the ground.

 

[Zankoku]

As I remember, grab-breaks are automatically jumping out as long as the character isn't pummeling you.

 

[Steel]

snip

Against a level 9 on attack it gets harder, this is where you REALLY need precise timing. Most of the time I was still able to do it HOWEVER.. sometimes at the last second meta knight used one of his double jumps right before i was able to grab him. Perhaps my timing was off for these, but I don't think so. But level 9's can do some pretty weird things, they can also get out of grabs a lot faster than humans can.

We need to test this against against another player for it to be confirmed.

 

[VietGeek]

As I remember, grab-breaks are automatically jumping out as long as the character isn't pummeling you.

Nope, it depends on the character. Look Ulevo's "Grab Influences. ~" thread. If you pummel them, they'll be on the ground (if they are by default released on the ground)/fling to the ground quickly (if they are by default released into the air like a jump break).

The guide mentions exceptions (such as a character will always jump break if where they'll land otherwise is into the air). Otherwise, it lists what characters released by default without any interaction between the grabber and...person being grabbed besides the initial grab on a flat surface without a nearby pit/abyss/on a platform to avoid the exceptions rule.

MK follows the "always jump break" rule and flings to the ground close to the grabber if you pummel him, but will always jump break if you let him escape.

The CG part is iffy. On the level 9 CPU on Attack, he either jumps away and Nairs me, or I CG him to death. It's so inconsistent that further testing with a human player is necessary I believe.

 

[Steel]

I was just talking with kizzu and he tried it out - He was also controlling the MK by hitting jump. It seems MK can indeed jump out at the last split second.

edit: actually just set meta knight on run. he will jump and air dodge at the last second.

 

[VietGeek]

I was just talking with kizzu and he tried it out - He was also controlling the MK by hitting jump. It seems MK can indeed jump out at the last split second.

edit: actually just set meta knight on run. he will jump and air dodge at the last second.

Hmm, so that means I (and Kizzu-kun and you of course) disproved our possibly favorite CG? =/

Ah well, it's novelty at best, perhaps a dash canceled Usmash can catch MK by surprise.

Thanks for confirming this so quickly though.

 

[Kizzu-kun]

Hmm, so that means I (and Kizzu-kun and you of course) disproved our possibly favorite CG? =/

Ah well, it's novelty at best, perhaps a dash canceled Usmash can catch MK by surprise.

Thanks for confirming this so quickly though.

You can Dolphin Slash him too.

 

[Steel]

Hmm, so that means I (and Kizzu-kun and you of course) disproved our possibly favorite CG? =/

Ah well, it's novelty at best, perhaps a dash canceled Usmash can catch MK by surprise.

Thanks for confirming this so quickly though.

we can do more than an upsmash. The CG isn't exactly that important, this still gives us a free tipped fair among other things.

I'm sure against a player you can still get the CG off one or two times, either way you end it with possibly a killing move.

This has a ton of potential.

 

[VietGeek]

I'm sure you can follow up with a lot of things, but Usmash seemed to be on the mind (I know of Fair, and forgot Dolphin Slash for reasons unknown).

Well, since it's not a true CG, shall we all try to come up with some set-ups?

Grab release to hyphen smash generally works since it's hitbox is so vertical and sucks in MK if he doesn't airdodge. Great for vertical kills.

Grab release to DS works for horizontal kills, a reverse with a hit from Marth's back (yes, there's a hitbox around his body), should that hitbox in the body sweetspot, it'll send MK vertically, again, good for those vertical kills since MK is light.

Note: I know there's hitbox in Marth's body that sends the foe upwards, but I don't know where exactly it is. I'd wager it's around Marth's cape area though.

Grab release to tippered Fair can kill if Fair is undiminished, or if MK refuses to die at higher percentages. Could it possibly chain to Dancing Blade?

Grab release to grounded Dancing Blade seems very promising. Up swings can kill decently, especially if tippered, neutral swings for some breathing room, and sweetspotted kills horizontally, and down for gimp set-ups, damage, or if sweetspotted, has deceivingly decent knockback.

Yes Steel, this is still awesome even without the CG part. Shall the list of set-ups continue? =P

 

[Steel]

So far i've grab release to:

Dolphin Slash
Up smash
Tipper Fair
Tipper Dair (spike)
Tipper Dancing Blade
Tipper Epic Win

 

[VietGeek]

Dolphin slash is ridiculously hard to do.

So far i've grab release to:

Up smash
Tipper Fair
Tipper Dair (spike)
Tipper Dancing Blade
Tipper Epic Win

For the Dair, are you dropping them off at the edge, and then do you turn around and spike, or face toward them? Both achieve a similar effect, but I would like to know due to the time you have while MK is defenseless.

Tipper'd Epic Win seems pretty good. How do you do it?

Reverse DS works, but it's insanely difficult. Normal DS seems more reliable since you're using the Falchion (disjoint) to hit, not Marth's freakin' body. Reverse DS basically works to kill MK at 125-ish% vertically from FD. The hitbox is insanely small though.

 

[mikeb2010]

Great stuff

 

[Steel]

For the Dair, are you dropping them off at the edge, and then do you turn around and spike, or face toward them? Both achieve a similar effect, but I would like to know due to the time you have while MK is defenseless.

Tipper'd Epic Win seems pretty good. How do you do it?

Reverse DS works, but it's insanely difficult. Normal DS seems more reliable since you're using the Falchion (disjoint) to hit, not Marth's freakin' body. Reverse DS basically works to kill MK at 125-ish% vertically from FD. The hitbox is insanely small though.

I lied, dolphin slash is easy to do.

I grab meta knight so that when he is released and is falling he is just passed the ledge. I do a forward Dair and it easily tips. So I'm a few steps away from the edge when I first grab him.

All these things are hardest to do against MK, its really easy against other characters.

 

[VietGeek]

I lied, dolphin slash is easy to do.

I grab meta knight so that when he is released and is falling he is just passed the ledge. I do a forward Dair and it easily tips. So I'm a few steps away from the edge when I first grab him.

All these things are hardest to do against MK, its really easy against other characters.

I thought you did, because the normal DS is kinda easy. Dash up and Up+B. =P

For reverse, release him, dash up to the spot he's going to land, and while doing so, shield to slide toward that position (shield cancel is what I think it's called), then do a reverse Up+B. As MK falls, you'll spring up, and it seems that it's not the cape, but it's when Marth swings back the Falchion under his legs as he rises. That part of the hitbox sends foes upward.

People will most likely do reverse with tap jump on, but just put a shoulder button you don't use to Jump and you'll achieve the same effect while being able to do Utilts A-OK.

I spent most of today working on MK set-ups. Why is it hardest against him disregarding his small size? Some foes like ROB have less lag from a jump release and can't even be set-up like this unless your opponent does nothing. My sister is doing SSE at the moment, but any reason why MK is more difficult?

 

[Sanzi]

lol thts funny

 

[Kizzu-kun]

Grab release to tippered Fair can kill if Fair is undiminished, or if MK refuses to die at higher percentages. Could it possibly chain to Dancing Blade?

Grab Jabs refreshes attacks, and also you could do more in higher percentages.
So this isn' really a problem.

 

[VietGeek]

Grab Jabs refreshes attacks, and also you could do more in higher percentages.
So this isn' really a problem.

True, but I guess adding that last part doesn't hurt either, as it tells people that the Fair needs to be undiminished, therefore implying you should jab to get rid of the decay.

You know, funny thing is that someone at a tourney in Georgia used your name (Kizzu) as their in-game name. I just found that odd (impersonation, ha). /off-topic

Another possible set-up: Also, grab release, then dash and shield cancel to Utilt should probably work too. If it hits at the back, it's usually a tipper to death. Its large range makes it more reliable than Usmash too I would guess.

 

[Steel]

omg u guys this leds 2 smash ball tipper 2

 

[Kizzu-kun]

True, but I guess adding that last part doesn't hurt either, as it tells people that the Fair needs to be undiminished, therefore implying you should jab to get rid of the decay.

You know, funny thing is that someone at a tourney in Georgia used your name (Kizzu) as their in-game name. I just found that odd (impersonation, ha). /off-topic

Another possible set-up: Also, grab release, then dash and shield cancel to Utilt should probably work too. If it hits at the back, it's usually a tipper to death. Its large range makes it more reliable than Usmash too I would guess.

Yes, but Grab Jabbing doesn't really means that you want to refresh an attack in order to kill.
Its very nice to use a lot of Fairs and pseudo-refresh them.
Your opponent will expect that you going to use Fair again, and you just kill him with other thing. But your opponent needs to be intelligent enough to deduct the Fair.
Also its bonus damage.

Any aerial will work out of that without fail.
My guess is that Shield Canceling Up Tilt isn't faster enough to commutes as consecutive hit.
Anyway, I'll test later with pivoting.

Haha impersonation, thats really strange for me. (o'-').

 

[Ulevo]

Wow, apparently people like my discovery on this. At any rate, once my Dazzle comes in, I think the first thing I'm going to do is make a compilation on the uses of this to display. It really does have huge potential and helps Marth a lot versus some characters.

 

[Roy_R]

lol! I discovered this waaay before you

 

[Ulevo]

lol! I discovered this waaay before you

I wouldn't say that. I knew MK flew away and could be tipped via Fair from the tests I did for Yoshi's Release Grab. I just didn't know you could influence how characters break based on how high they're held from the ground until recently, which led me to find out this works on a lot of characters.

Either way, I don't care. Tomato tomato right? The point is it's useful and it works.

 

[Roy_R]

yeah Tomato tomato

 

[crazn137]

omg u guys this leds 2 smash ball tipper 2

omg, smash ball tipper?? now all we ned is some mudkipz anyone hav?

EDIT: i found teh kipz

 

[ZHMT]

Crazn that pic is epic win.

 

[Ulevo]

Oh right. It isn't nearly as significant as a Meta Knight CG, but Marth CAN CG Squirtle. It also leads to a guaranteed Spike. I've listed in amongst all the other set ups in my thread for you guys to see.

 

[crazn137]

Crazn that pic is epic win.

gold stars for everyone!

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

and i just find this out today when i lose to a metaknight player round 5 in losers finals last night?