Message to the fellow ROB mains

[TheMike]

2 mindgames that i like to do:

- Dash Attack > Shield. Then, the opponent Air Dodges and i Shield Grab and then any throw that make nice set ups, depending on the %. If the opponent doesn't Air Dodge and attack instead, i do Ftilt OoS.

- Dthrow > Di **** > Hyphen Smash. Again, punishing the opponent at his Air Dodge lag.


With the first mindgame, i can get into the second one =]

 

[Neo X]

I like ROB's gyro. One thing I like to do is spam gyros if they keep shielding them, and if they get close, I charge a gyro instead for a little while, and if they spotdoge, then I would bait it. (I hope that made sense)

 

[GwJ]

Dthrow > Usmash isn't a mindgame. It's a fundamental tactic called prediction.

 

[TheMike]

Doens't matter how it's called, it's useful ;D

 

[Tin Man]

Another good gyro thingy is setting up a gyro on the stage, then getting your opponent in front of it, THEN ROFLCoptering it. It practically eats up shield. They can't really punish you, because you pressure them toward the gyro, and if they try to grab you, the gyro still hits them.

If we can make Side B more viable, that helps a whole lot in improving rob's meta game :D

I like shooting gyro's into explosions and lava, and try to bounce it into my opponents. Norfair's right and left lava walls bounce gyros pretty well

I also like making my gyro bounce of Snakes Dsmash to catch him i the air.

And another thing. Lets think, whats Holding rob back, then what can we d to fix those problems. Discuss (er rather continue to discuss lol)

 

[6Mizu]

GWjumpman read my mind and made this post.
i just no it.
And hes right all of us are being lazy Mother F'ers i bet if we tried we could find new AT's and tricx etc.
with him to increase his(already awesome metagame).
but what i said sound lik a dream since no one will step up and do anything to make him better.
and NO I will not step up to this cause well.....ive on been to one tourney and i hav alot of of s*** to learn with him.

 

[GwJ]

I've been to three tourneys. That's not much. Look at Sudai. He doesn't play vBrawl (dunno about B+ now), yet he more knowledgeable than most of the ROB mains that post here. Just read the Q&A all the way through and you'll have your brain extend like it had brain viagra.

 

[Overswarm]

Sorry guys, ROB is pretty bad. No matter how hard you play, you're better off with someone else as a solo-main.

ROB does have his uses as a CP character though.

 

[Mr.E]

ROB is a top ten character. Maybe you should've mained G&W or Marth, OS, since their mains whine even more than "we" (not me!) do here.

 

[Sudai]

OS, you're just too lazy to learn the character. You'd prefer to just camp badly. :] <3



As for actual ROB development, I played a **** ton over the weekend in Dallas with DMG, UTD Zac, and Sethlon. I have some really nice tricks to show you guys but I want to make a video before I post about it just so you guys can see how good it is. My ROB is soooooooooooooooooooooooooo mobile now it's not even funny.

 

[GwJ]

How do you guys play your ROB in terms of where you prefer to hang out? I noticed recently that I'm always offstage and I do really well there. I get so much damage racking from lasers and gyros there and as long as you're smart, you get back without much (if any) trouble.

 

[Sudai]

I tend to stay near the edge or off stage against most characters. I avoid being there against people like MK or GnW though. The way I see it, ROB has an extra 1/3 FD's length of stage than most characters do so we might as well use it.

 

[GwJ]

I really dislike GaW now. I was on AiB (shut up) and I played this random GaW and it was a pain in the ***. I quit the match, went Snake and won the set.

 

[TheMike]

I tend to stay near the edge or off stage against most characters. I avoid being there against people like MK or GnW though. The way I see it, ROB has an extra 1/3 FD's length of stage than most characters do so we might as well use it.

I go off-stage against MKs. It works sometimes because the player never thinks that i can go there and ROB's Bair has the same priority of the MK's Up B and his glide =X

 

[stingers]

themike that is a very very bad idea

 

[Sudai]

themike that is a very very bad idea

This. Even if it's unexpected, MK can still punish you on reaction out there. If you're playing an MK that likes to jump the gun and makes the first move though, abuse that and play offstage against them. Just make sure you know how to tech.

 

[stingers]

if you're in position to snipe them with a gyro that's basically the only thing you should do assuming they're below stage level

if they're above stage level there are options...

 

[TheMike]

I know it is and i know that i can be ****ed, but if it works once in a match and i lose that match, it sounds like i won because seeing a MK that didn't recover is just too good =X


OBVIOUSLY, i never do this on tourneys, just frieiendlies ^^

 

[Overswarm]

You might want to point that out when it's something obvious. Us bad ROB players might think you're serious and start going off stage vs. MK and losing our ROB vs. MK matches even faster than before.


I wish ROB's pivot grab on the tornado was easier. That'd help.

 

[stingers]

when the mk starts dair camping to tornado just jump and nair asap...

 

[Overswarm]

and get daired?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I wish ROB's pivot grab on the tornado was easier. That'd help.

Walkaway F-smash already RAAAAPES the Tornado, has a f***ton of disjointed range, and is only a few measly frames slower than a pivot grab.

I don't think ROB has an unwinnable matchup...G&W comes close depending on the stage.

The way I see it, as long as ROB's tilts outrange MK's, lasers are gay, F-smash beats Tornado, and N-air *****, you can pull out a win somehow against MK lol.

I hate using F-throw and B-throw just for the sake of getting people offstage. ROB's edgeguarding is good, but overrated at the same time. ROB's commitment on his options is very significant, so after you do one option, if it misses, it's hard to follow up. Personally, I like saving either one of them strictly for KOs.

I like D-throw a lot more, since it puts people in a position where they must air dodge to avoid getting U-aired. Baiting with U-smash out of D-throw is awesome since it's possible to chase them after the U-smash ends. In general I grab a lot and D-throw, and go for regrabs. It's something ROB is very good at due to his good run speed and amazing grab range, and his ability to force air dodges.

Alternatively, there's BBrawl, which ROB is even better in lol.

 

[Overswarm]

MK can shield every single one of ROB's non-projectile attacks and attack on reaction. Every single one.

If he calls you on a move, he doesn't even have to shield.

ROB doesn't out-range MK when you can't use your ranged moves safely. :\

and the reason the pivot grab would be useful is because f-smash is less than speedy and doesn't set up for anything. If I could get a d-throw or f/b-throw every time MK tornadoed I'd like the matchup more.

Actually, to hell with that. Just let u-throw kill at 110% or something. >_>

 

[A2ZOMG]

MK can shield every single one of ROB's non-projectile attacks and attack on reaction. Every single one.

So? He's not called the best character in the game for no reason. If I replaced "ROB" with anyone else, that statement would still be true. Except it doesn't actually apply that way every single time when you factor baiting and adapting to the equation to mess up reaction time.

If he calls you on a move, he doesn't even have to shield.

Having more range on stuff means you probably will trade if he tries poking.

ROB doesn't out-range MK when you can't use your ranged moves safely. :\

D-tilt outranges his D-tilt, and has the same speed, meaning you trade with him in poke wars at least.

and the reason the pivot grab would be useful is because f-smash is less than speedy and doesn't set up for anything. If I could get a d-throw or f/b-throw every time MK tornadoed I'd like the matchup more.

You're trying to say that ROB's throws actually set up anything on Metaknight. That's amusing. F-smash does plenty of damage, especially if you catch him with a charged F-smash.

Actually, to hell with that. Just let u-throw kill at 110% or something. >_>

You can get something like that in BBrawl. =/

 

[Overswarm]

You're trying to say that ROB's throws actually set up anything on Metaknight. That's amusing. F-smash does plenty of damage, especially if you catch him with a charged F-smash.

Are you kidding? They do. Well, d-throw does. F-throw and b-throw only at a few percentages. It either put him in the air with two less jumps or you get a free grab /u -smash.

Metaknight's air dodge has enough lag to where when he does it, he can't do anything. You can FORCE him to jump after a d-throw at low %, and him having less jumps is all you need to put him in a bad position. It's not an auto-combo like other characters would be used to, but all you have to do is bait an air dodge from MK after a d-throw and just wait on the ground where he'll land. You get a free grab.

Seriously, pick MK, jump in the air a few times, then air dodge and mash up on the c-stick. Look at how long it takes for him to fall before he can u-air. If you can bait an air dodge inside that vertical length, you get a free grab, fully charged gyro, d-tilt to grab, f-smash, whatever.

D-tilt outranges his D-tilt, and has the same speed, meaning you trade with him in poke wars at least.

Good luck with that. How's your splitting hair business? Have you bought in more stock in Irrelevant Co.?

 

[Mr.E]

ROB doesn't have the disjointedness to deal with MK's transcendent priority. It's not like you can shield ROB's FTilt and crap on reaction either, OS. But why entertain A2ZOMG at all? Everyone knows he's simply a troll/moron/both. And everyone is better in BBrawl, except MK/Snake.

Past very low percents where DThrow-UAir is virtually guaranteed, DThrow doesn't even lead into anything but a limited chance to juggle. Most characters you can still potentially mindgame into continuing the juggle, at any percent, but MK can Tornado to beat UAir if he sees ROB leave the ground. A well-spaced DAir can also beat it... which just leads MK toward his usual air camping.

An easier pivot grab option would be nice anyway, mostly because FSmash just isn't fast enough to pull on reaction. I dunno about you guys but I basically have to just sit there, wait for MK to run out of jumps, and then wait specifically for the Tornado to FSmash him out of it. Otherwise, it just comes out too slow. You can't jump at MK ever, he can Tornado on reaction and it'll usually beat any aerial ROB uses. (Both laser and full-charge Gyro win, though!) But then what if he doesn't Tornado? Maybe I can punish his landing lag with a projectile but that's about it. He can mix up the timing on his Tornado and if he does it low to the ground, while I'm pressing B to shoot something where he'd otherwise land, I still get punished. Moving away just gives away stage control and FSmash isn't fast enough on reaction if you move toward him, relegating you to simply hope you don't get shieldpoked and can punish OoS.

i.e. Tornado's a *****. Luckily, it doesn't also kill except in extraordinary circumstances.

 

[A2ZOMG]

ROB doesn't have the disjointedness to deal with MK's transcendent priority.

Disjointedness hardly matters. What matters more is actual range and startup (see Donkey Kong's B-air). If you have a really fast attack with high range, even if it isn't disjointed, it usually will trade with other attacks no matter how disjointed they are, unless they linger forever like G&W's moves. When I play against MKs, I usually find that rarely am I ever completely outprioritized, although I trade hits a lot more when I attack at the same time.

An easier pivot grab option would be nice anyway, mostly because FSmash just isn't fast enough to pull on reaction. I dunno about you guys but I basically have to just sit there, wait for MK to run out of jumps, and then wait specifically for the Tornado to FSmash him out of it. Otherwise, it just comes out too slow.

I just F-smash randomly. It's disjointed enough to challenge stuff he has, and low lag enough to get away with.

Charging F-smash from a certain distance also works.

But why entertain A2ZOMG at all? Everyone knows he's simply a troll/moron/both. And everyone is better in BBrawl, except MK/Snake.

Firstoff I'm trying to actually help advance ROB's placements and metagame. You should be grateful, since I've spent a lot of time testing things and accumulating data on Brawl in general. Although OS of course has beaten me to knowing "everything" about ROB for the most part.

Even today, people make a lot of misconceptions about various characters that wouldn't be made if everyone actually spent time testing actual range/KO%s to the extent I do.

Also, ROB is easily one of the best characters in BBrawl. He's one of few who can easily handle Marth in that game. Metaknight is much easier to handle now that Tornado no longer traps, and that Up-B and D-smash no longer gimp.

 

[Overswarm]

If MK didn't have the tornado and ROB didn't get gimped off stage by up+b at 60%, it wouldn't be such a bad matchup. Making MK work for dair / nair gimps, getting owned on stage but making up for it with d-smashes and u-airs... it'd be hard but winnable.

In other words, the only way to make the matchup work is to find a reliable answer to tornado trapping and how to survive MKs up+b gimp.

 

[A2ZOMG]

If MK didn't have the tornado and ROB didn't get gimped off stage by up+b at 60%, it wouldn't be such a bad matchup. Making MK work for dair / nair gimps, getting owned on stage but making up for it with d-smashes and u-airs... it'd be hard but winnable.

In other words, the only way to make the matchup work is to find a reliable answer to tornado trapping and how to survive MKs up+b gimp.

lol, I agree with this statement completely.

And that's why I like BBrawl. In BBrawl, MK's Tornado no longer traps, and the knockback of his Up-B and D-smash are toned down quite a lot. ROB has a few other improvements like D-throw being even easier to combo with and U-throw KOing much earlier. ROB overall has some of the most solid matchups in BBrawl, including advantage against the top contender Marth if I recall, so he's great there.

 

[stingers]

you can space a nair around mk's dair OS

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

you can space a nair around mk's dair OS

Keep in mind how ridiculous the startup to ROBs nair is when compared to MKs dair... I feel like you would need to predict the dair for this to be viable, and predicting MK is just a ***** because hes always got options...

 

[stingers]

if you see a MK jump over you and start dair camping...you just jump and nair at the same time, by the time you get up there you're fine...just space it, don't jump straight up if you're gonna run into a dair, lol

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

if you see a MK jump over you and start dair camping...you just jump and nair at the same time, by the time you get up there you're fine...just space it, don't jump straight up if you're gonna run into a dair, lol

Ok, you're talking about dair camping. I thought we were still talking about following p the d-throw.

 

[stingers]

oh...lol...you gotta bait the AD, if they DI it right theres not much you can do (if they go too far for you to uair then all you can do is laser really)

 

[Overswarm]

Stingers, if you are playing an MK who will dair camp you, see you jump and doesn't just jump one more time and then hit you after your attack (or just tornado the moment you jump and catch you in it), you need to play better MKs.

 

[stingers]

if you full hop a nair that puts you basically level with where MKs standardly space their Dair camping, one more jump and your nair will still hit with the tip. LOL

 

[Mr.E]

If an MK jumps up and starts DAir camping... I just stand there until they come down. Where's he going? Nowhere. He doesn't have infinite jumps. ROB's most reliable Tornado-killers are ground moves (FSmash and Shield) and ROB does a better job matching MK's range on the ground.

MK has more control of the NAir-vs-DAir spacing due that whole "NAir has a really long startup" thing and none of ROB's aerials reliably go through the Tornado. :/ Well, Tornado has pretty wonky priority, once I popped out the top and broke it with UAir , but yeah... NAir is the only one that regularly beats it but not often enough to rely upon. ROB can't even get through MK FAir spam with his aerials.

 

[TheMike]

ROB's Fair beats MK's tornado, too =X
In the center of the nado... it beats ^^

 

[stingers]

are you sure i have never beaten an mk nado with fair before >.>

if you can it's gotta be pretty hard to space

 

[CT Chia]

I don't think ROB has an unwinnable matchup...G&W comes close depending on the stage..

May 2008 called, they want their matchup ratios back.

MK can shield every single one of ROB's non-projectile attacks and attack on reaction. Every single one.

If he calls you on a move, he doesn't even have to shield.

ROB doesn't out-range MK when you can't use your ranged moves safely. :\

and the reason the pivot grab would be useful is because f-smash is less than speedy and doesn't set up for anything. If I could get a d-throw or f/b-throw every time MK tornadoed I'd like the matchup more.

Actually, to hell with that. Just let u-throw kill at 110% or something. >_>

This. All of it.

Man, remember for the first 6 months of Brawl when no one knew how to DI ROB's uthrow and it killed at like 110-140? Man those were the good days. Now it won't even kill people until like 180-220 now geez.

Stingers, if you are playing an MK who will dair camp you, see you jump and doesn't just jump one more time and then hit you after your attack (or just tornado the moment you jump and catch you in it), you need to play better MKs.

This this this this this this this this

ROB's Fair beats MK's tornado, too =X
In the center of the nado... it beats ^^

Items are banned, so there's no chance of you getting a Starman in a real tourney.

---

Don't even bother arguing with OS in ROB v MK. Seriously, like everything he's said so far about it is 100% correct.