Melee Techniques Being Left out of Brawl

[Dogenzaka]

Let me explain, WHY, I think they should be out, for the fairness of the community, not to cater to the Pros.

The minority of Smash players know how to pull off these techniques. It's much easier to level out the playing field by taking them out, rather than forcing the majority of Smash players to learn these techniques.

SSBM has sold nearly 8 million copies, even if you assume that every member of SmashBoards and the old Nsider forums were avid Wavedash/L-Cancel users, the headcount combined hardly surpass 100,000

I would call that a minority. Therefore, I doubt they are going to cater these techniques and glitches to the minority that know them, especially when the profit comes from casual gamers nowadays, which is the expanding market.

These techniques leave the people who can pull them off at an advantage. A decent player and a decent player that knows L-cancelling and wavedashing, who has the advantage?

I'm sure I speak for many when I say I don't want the Smash Bros. Brawl online community to become that of Mario Kart DS and snaking. Sure, it leaves those who knows these techniques at an advantage, but it leaves every one else at a disadvantage, and is just no fun when you see people zipping around the track at a million miles per hour, just like how it wouldn't be fun for this majority of Smash players who don't know techniques like wavedashing, L-canceling, etc. to join an online match and be pummeled by people zipping around the stage and canceling out the lag.

Even though you can say "Just learn to do it!" doesn't change that a Wavedash/L-Cancel user is the one with the Advantage because of exploiting something in the game, even if both players are equally skilled, the one doing the exploiting gets the advantage

And I'm not saying this because I can't do it, I play SSB64 and Melee at a competitive level and can L/Z-cancel and Wavedash just fine, but when I'm playing with friends and they can't commit time and practice towards Wavedashing and the like...they're not going to be having an enjoyable time playing against someone who does.

I personally think SSB's experience would benefit from it being taken out, making it so that people like my friends can have more fun with the game even if playing against someone who puts more effort into the game like me. You can accept that you lose to someone because you messed up or you acknowledge that the person you're playing is better than you, it's harder to do that when it seems like you lost because he's exploiting something to get an advantage that you're not. It levels out the playing field.

Those are my two cents.

And those of you who are going to be like "Zomg not again" and flame me, don't bother to post.

 

[eternalmadila]

Amen brother...

 

[Xengri]

"Zomg not again"

 

[Xanderous]

That doesn't make sense. If the pros are the only ones wavedashing, they're going to beat the noobs every time. If they don't wavedash, guess what, they'll still beat the noobs every time. Taking it out won't make you better, you'll just have even FEWER excuses when you lose.

The more skilled player uses advanced techniques. Taking them out won't change a thing, it'll just make it less fun for both parties.

 

[Adi]

Considering that either way a casual will lose it doesn't effect them and is just detrimental towards our community. This is just backwards and rather dense thinking.

 

[Dogenzaka]

If they don't wavedash, guess what, they'll still beat the noobs every time. Taking it out won't make you better, you'll just have even FEWER excuses when you lose.

It puts everyone on the same, fair, playing field, and if you lose, you lose because you're not good, not because you can't L-cancel or wavedash.

Considering that either way a casual will lose it doesn't effect them and is just detrimental towards our community. This is just backwards and rather dense thinking.

Once again: Levels out the playing field.

 

[Xanderous]

It puts everyone on the same, fair, playing field, and if you lose, you lose because you're not good, not because you can't L-cancel or wavedash.

But if you're not good, you can't L-cancel or wavedash.

Get the picture?

 

[Kyu Puff]

You are telling people not to post "Zomg not again" and flame you, yet this argument isn't new. It's been made plenty of times. And it still fails.

Seriously, if new players don't know an advanced technique, how does it hurt them? As long as they play against other new players, it doesn't. Basically what you're arguing is that there should be no depth to the game so that everybody can play on an equal level. Let me ask you something. Why should everyone play on an equal level? Those with more experience should be able to show that they have more experience.

L-cancelling is a game mechanic, not a glitch. Taking out a somewhat-difficult technique just because n00bs can't use it is like saying "Smash tournaments should be banned because some people will lose."

Again, you are just pressing for wavedashing to be removed because it's an "exploitation". Fine, that's your opinion. Don't use it. ANYONE can learn these techniques if they try, and the fact that people who just learned that Smash Bros. can be played competitively won't stop whining about advanced techniques is ridiculous.

Those who put work into something deserve to be better. If you feel that you don't want to play somebody because you don't like the tactics they use, fine. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. "Random" isn't the only online option; most of the time you are just playing with friends or other people you know online. Why would a technique simply existing affect noobs whatsoever?


Edit - Also, like Xanderous said, advanced techniques, other than knowing combos/chain grabs and stuff, don't determine whether you win or lose. Skill does. Removing all techniques except for "press A/B button + direction" doesn't take away skill, it just totally neuters our interest in the game.

 

[Dogenzaka]

But if you're not good, you can't L-cancel or wavedash.

Not necessarily.

I can wavedash and L-cancel, but I'm no good at playing as Zelda.

It makes more sense to jip the minority than jip the majority.

You are telling people not to post "Zomg not again" and flame you, yet this argument isn't new.

So? I'm not here all day. And flaming is against the rules.

And it still fails.

That's your opinion, just because you don't agree with it.

Seriously, if new players don't know an advanced technique, how does it hurt them?

Do you not logically understand the definition of "having an unfair advantage"?

As long as they play against other new players, it doesn't.

I don't believe there's a filter for that in the Online Lobby of Smash Bros. Brawl.

 

[fatmactk]

But if you're not good, you can't L-cancel or wavedash.

Get the picture?

Get 'em Xanderous!

 

[eternalmadila]

Am i the only one who loved melee before wavedashing was ever discovered?

 

[Dogenzaka]

Am i the only one who loved melee before wavedashing was ever discovered?

*raises hand*

I only learned about wavedashing a year ago. It's almost exclusive to the the internet communities of Smash Bros. People who do not log on and forum lurk chances are have not heard of these techniques.

Why should everyone play on an equal level?

So that one isn't handicapped with these advantages/disadvantages, and matches can be left to skill other than being able to cancel out lag.

 

[TheMastermind]

This is so stupid the quality of the game directly depends on how good a person can get at the game.
games like Halo/starcraft/warcraft/counterstrike, have HUGE gaps between pros and noobs.

If Nintendo wants SSBB to be a good game "which they do" the will most definatly make it like other games.

 

[Andrew Ott]

The minority of Smash players know how to pull off these techniques. It's much easier to level out the playing field by taking them out, rather than forcing the majority of Smash players to learn these techniques.

I would call that a minority. Therefore, I doubt they are going to cater these techniques and glitches to the minority that know them, especially when the profit comes from casual gamers nowadays, which is the expanding market.

Even though you can say "Just learn to do it!" doesn't change that a Wavedash/L-Cancel user is the one with the Advantage because of exploiting something in the game, even if both players are equally skilled, the one doing the exploiting gets the advantage

These are why no one agrees with you. I VERY RARELY see any situation where lower level players are complaining that they can't do advanced tactics, thus making them unfair. So "Leveling the playing field" would change nothing. Most of the time people that CAN'T do the techs fight me, they want to learn them. I've taught over 10 people how to use them.

Second, Nintendo wouldn't be "catering" to anyone by putting them in, because people that can't do them usually don't know about them and don't care.

For the last one, if two players are equally skilled, they can learn the techs very easily, or should already know them. None of these things are exploits. And even if one player couldn't use them, it's only his lack of dedication to the game hindering him. In other words, no johns.

Finally, most of our advanced tactics have been deconfirmed already, and even though Brawl's a different game, this can be dissapointing to some people, so rubbing it in isn't necessary.

*sigh*

 

[Adi]

How is it jipping the majority if they lose a match? There are winners and losers. Get over it.

 

[hugQ Cortex]

The fact of the matter is that someone who doesn't know how to wave dash or l cancel is simply not at the same skill level as someone who does those techniques. A lot of fun I have gotten from SSBM was getting my a$$ handed to me by people who were proficient with such techniques and straight up out smarted me with their mindgames and experience. Melee has a huge learning curve, in all aspects of technical skill, mindgames, and experience, and anyone who's willing to advance in the learning curve will manage to put up a fight. Removing the techniques you speak of won't bring any more fun to the newbies when playing against a "pro" who will out play them, even if these newbies think they're pretty good without the experience you get from attending tournaments and losing to higher level players.

 

[eternalmadila]

win or lose everytime i play smash .. i am a winner

 

[NES n00b]

Amen brother...

Why do you people support things like this? Do people who use advance techs beat you alot or something? You probably don't even play any.

It puts everyone on the same, fair, playing field, and if you lose, you lose because you're not good, not because you can't L-cancel or wavedash.



Once again: Levels out the playing field.

If you mean they get rid of the techs then sure, but that doesn't even really make sense. So ok, I cater to the a big minority who want Brawl to not have advance techs then appease the minority people who want them in while no one besides the few people who don't like them don't even know these techs or advanced players. Please. It is basically saying "screw tourney players because I feel like it and the few people who dislike it will be happy. Now the casuals who would have never encountered these things anyways will be happy and this imaginary playing field will be even since I have taken away depth."

 

[Dogenzaka]

Those who put work into something deserve to be better.

What? The probably less than 100,000 people that know how to do these techniques deserve to have them in so that they can continue the way they are, out of the total of more than 8,000,000 Smash Owners?

Second, Nintendo wouldn't be "catering" to anyone by putting them in, because people that can't do them usually don't know about them and don't care.

They will care when they come face to face with it in the online matches if it's still in the game.

None of these things are exploits.

.

The fact is, yes they are. They were unintended to be in the game.

ex·ploit (ksploit, k-sploit)
n.
An act or deed, especially a brilliant or heroic one. See Synonyms at feat1.
tr.v. (k-sploit, ksploit) ex·ploit·ed, ex·ploit·ing, ex·ploits
1. To employ to the greatest possible advantage: exploit one's talents.
2. To make use of selfishly or unethically: a country that exploited peasant labor. See Synonyms at manipulate.
3. To advertise; promote.

they want to learn them.

Simply so that they can be at the same level and advantage as you.

These are why no one agrees with you.

*This

No one?
1st post: "Amen brother..."

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

The minority of Smash players know how to pull off these techniques. It's much easier to level out the playing field by taking them out, rather than forcing the majority of Smash players to learn these techniques.

you lost me at this. johns.

 

[eternalmadila]

hate to tell you guys.. i can do all those techs .. all that advanced stuff.. but at the end of the day when i go home and play with my buds we lay off that stuff.... we just have fun ... in tournys .. sure i throw it in there ... but at the same time i have won tournyies without .. i kicked the crap out wave dashing shffl foxes and falcos and not once during the match did i even L cancel .... brawl will be awesome .. with or without wave dashing and there will be plenty of techs for all of you techies out there.. so dont worry your heads about it... give the game a chance and just throw a rose on the descending coffin of the wave dash

 

[Kyu Puff]

Hint: Taking one line of somebody's post and giving a blatant, annoying answer is a form of flame-baiting. Especially when you take them out of context, making your response absolutely worthless.

In your original post you said that you play competitively, which obviously isn't true. If you did, you would understand that 99% of a victory is determined by mindgame, and only 1% is tech skill.

Also note that the word "tech skill" has the word skill within it. So if we took your argument and simplified it, it would basically say "All tech skill components of the game should be removed so that it relies on skill instead."

That doesn't make sense. So let's assume that by "skill" you meant mindgames/mindset. Then you would be saying "All tech skill components of the game should be removed so that it relies on mindgames instead."

Well guess what, remember that inaccurate figure of 99%:1% I gave before? It actually happens to be true. You can have all the tech skill in the world and will still be beaten by a Japanese pro who rarely uses advanced techs. Sheer mindgames make them good.

Maybe we should remove mindgames AND tech skill! That way, the game would be determined by who's c-stick f-smash has better priority!

 

[Adi]

Well it's 1 vs a multitude of other posters. I'm sure that you can clearly see which side the favor lies on. Who cares if a minority of the people are the only ones that know advanced techniques. Just like in Halo when people see a new trick or skill, they themselves adapt it. The online communities in Halo are very good at the higher levels because the ones who sucked quit, and the ones who want to improve try to learn something from every match. This will be the case in Brawl. If someone runs into someone who uses advanced techniques, they will try to learn or adapt to it. Than there will be people like you, who blame their loss upon exploits and complain for their removal.

 

[Dogenzaka]

If you mean they get rid of the techs then sure

That's what I mean.

Removing the techniques you speak of won't bring any more fun to the newbies when playing against a "pro" who will out play them

Right, but it will remove unintended techniques from a game that shouldn't have had them.

you lost me at this. johns.

Then you clearly don't understand fact.

give the game a chance and just throw a rose on the descending coffin of the wave dash

Yeah, and honestly, if all these techniques are out of the game, well for one I would laugh to no end, but second of all I would thoroughly agree with Nintendo's decision.

If you did, you would understand that 99% of a victory is determined by mindgame, and only 1% is tech skill.

Making up statistics doesn't make you smart.
I realize mindgame is a large majority, and that of course still needs to be in the game, I'm simply talking about the techniques, or your so declared "1%" out.

And someone on the internet can't tell me whether I can or cannot do these techniques.

Taking one line of somebody's post and giving a blatant, annoying answer is a form of flame-baiting.

Annoying = Opinion
One line - what?

Posting my two cents on the big picture is only flamebaiting to the idiots who wish to start a flame war, rather than a discussion, about this issue.

"All tech skill components of the game should be removed so that it relies on skill instead."

Yep.

You can have all the tech skill in the world and will still be beaten by a Japanese pro who rarely uses advanced techs. Sheer mindgames make them good.

Yep. But that's irrelevant. I'm talking about why the techs need to be out in the first place.

Maybe we should remove mindgames AND tech skill! That way, the game would be determined by who's c-stick f-smash has better priority!

Keep mindgames in.
The game is about getting people off the stage, not C-stick fights.

 

[WurmTheory]

Although you will definitely piss off a lot of people with this post, I agree. There's no good competition where I live and thusly so, I've tried to teach my friend L-Canceling, shfflc, WD, etc. And they don't get it. It would be much easier for competition if those things didn't exist all together in Brawl to, as you said, level the playing field.

-Wurm

 

[Dogenzaka]

Although you will definitely piss off a lot of people with this post

XD Yeah I know I will, but I don't care. People can get pissed off all they want over my post and call it "flamebait", and then in turn call me close-minded, when they won't allow me to post my opinion, no matter how offensive they consider it is to them. XD

 

[Adi]

And you have still failed to present any reason beyond casuals complaining about getting owned. And to my knowledge you are one of the few MINORITY that will indeed complain about this techniques once exposed to them.

 

[Dogenzaka]

And you have still failed to present any reason beyond casuals complaining about getting owned.

- They weren't intended to be in
- They leave an unfair advantage to the minority that know them
- They are unnecessary
- Brawl =/= Melee
- If you want them you should stick to Melee.
- Easier to remove the techniques altogether than to teach the majority of Smash owners these techs to be on par with other people.

And those reasons are all that's necessary to defend why they should be out.

And to my knowledge you are one of the few MINORITY that will indeed complain about this techniques once exposed to them.

You have no "knowledge" about me. You don't know me.

And for statistics, the MAJORITY of Smash players can't do these techniques.

 

[Justin Wiles]

I think I can sum up your wall of text:

"I am lazy and want to be rewarded without working for it."

 

[Xengri]

I didn't even bother to humor this stupid thread with a serious response.

you know why you're arguments fail Dogenzaka? The only thing that is fact in you're post is that us "advance players" are a minority.

Every thing else about equality and exploits and other BS is your opinion and just encase you didn't know

OPINION=/=FACT

This whole thing sounds like you're just another annoying scrub trying to convince everyone that "now that some advance techs are gone, it would be the right thing to do if all the others went to, all about leveling the playing field!!11!11ONE!"
sure you say that you are a advanced player and use all the tech skills so that it backs up your argument but for all we know that's BS too. Don't use your level of skill as a counter argument unless you have proof of it. To me you just look like another idiot that thinks tech skill isn't skill.


And once again

OPINION=/=FACT

Go ahead quote me on that, I have some time to waste on proving you wrong.

 

[Dogenzaka]

"I am lazy and want to be rewarded without working for it."

Rewarded? What the ****, explain?
I'm not being paid by Sony to say this. What makes me lazy? The fact that I have the balls to oppose the opinion of the crowd of tech users here who like their game the way it is and don't want any change?

you know why you're arguments fail Dogenzaka? The only thing that is fact in you're post is that us "advance players" are a minority.

Reason enough to take it out.

It doesn't fail, there are people that agree with me. Plenty, in fact. So your opinion doesn't make me anything that you think I am.

This whole thing sounds like you're just another annoying scrub trying to convince everyone that "no that some advance techs are gone, it would be the right thing to do if all the others went to, all about leveling the playing field!!11!11ONE!"

I don't care if you think I'm annoying.

sure you say hat you are a advanced player and use all the tech skills so that it backs up your argument but for all we know that's BS too.

I can't be an advanced player yet still think it should be out?

Don't use your level of skill as a counter argument unless you have proof of it.

Right, other people on this forum can say they can wavedash and L-cancel and people take them seriously, but I have to buy a capture card and video tape me doing it in order to get credit around here, simply because I don't buy into the bullcrap of the majority here's opinion?

OPINION=/=FACT

The only thing you've said that's true.

 

[GoldenS1104]

I don't get why people make these stupid arguements. No one is forcing you to play with the techniques and no one is forcing you to play people who use those techniques. If you plan on entering a tournament, you'll need to learn them, that's just how it is, you've got to learn to play the game the best way possible. But if you play casually (and it seems like you do) then just ask the people you play with not to use those techniques. It's not like having them in the game affects you when you dont use them.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I still cannot fathom the whole argument that advanced techniques were "unintended abuses of the game physics". The game sets the rules, and then we are free to do as we please. Did the inventor of ping pong intend for players to start applying spin to the ball? Did the creator of basketball intend for players to dribble-fake into a shot? Did the first tennis player slice the ball? Let's examine this a bit closer, shall we? Why do soccer players do back flips to shoot the ball? The original creator probably never envisioned players becoming that radical in their play style. Well, the rule is that players cannot touch the ball with their hands/arms. So, since the human head has an overall week lever, players started inverting their bodies to shoot the ball at high speeds with their legs from a place where opponents are unlikely to be able to intercept: in the middle of the air. Is this tactic broken? Should it have been banned from tournaments since it was never intended to be there? Of course not. In this example, we see that soccer has evolved into an extremely competitive sport where virtually every country has put forth a team of its best players!

So, bringing this full circle back to smash, it is OK to avoid advanced tactics. No one is forcing anyone to learn how to wavedash, lag-cancel, etc. Play the game at your own pace! However, when the rest of us start learning how to win at all costs, do not complain that we are violating the original "intent" of the creators. If you want a game with explicit rules that reflect the intent of the creator, play a board game. >_>

Wavedashing is not a "glitch". It was acknowledged by the creators of the game. When you tweak the game using Action Replay, the wavedash is referred to as a "landing special". So, the whole "intent of gameplay" argument is stupid. A glitch usually refers to a game-breaking side-effect (such as falling through the center of Corneria... now that is a glitch).

 

[Dogenzaka]

No one is forcing you to play with the techniques and no one is forcing you to play people who use those techniques.

It becomes an issue when in February people will be able to play random matches online with eachother, and if the technique is in, it will be left swimming with people using it, just like Snaking in Mario Kart.

No one is forcing anyone to learn how to wavedash, lag-cancel, etc.

But if my friend wants to be on par with me, he is pressured to learn it.

(such as falling through the center of Corneria... now that is a glitch).

Never even heard of this. Is this what the "pros" spend their time doing? Glitch hunting?

 

[Kyu Puff]

Annoying = Opinion
One line - what?

Posting my two cents on the big picture is only flamebaiting to the idiots who wish to start a flame war, rather than a discussion, about this issue.

Fine, we'll do this your way. And this will be my last response, because this thread will soon be closed and you are obviously trying to troll.

Making up statistics doesn't make you smart.
I realize mindgame is a large majority, and that of course still needs to be in the game, I'm simply talking about the techniques, or your so declared "1%" out.

It's really not made up. Tech skill does not matter. Someone who doesn't learn any advanced techniques other than the basic shorthop, jump cancelled grab, etc. can easily destroy someone who relies on tech skill. It simply does not win you games.

And someone on the internet can't tell me whether I can or cannot do these techniques.

Read moar. I never said you couldn't do them, I said you don't play competitively.

Yep.

Again, quoting out of context doesn't do any good.

Yep. But that's irrelevant. I'm talking about why the techs need to be out in the first place.

And you've completely failed to make any point whatsoever.

I ... shouldn't have had th ... o ... se ... pi ... ll ... s ...

And how is that relevant?

 

[Adi]

They weren't intended to be in

*Looks at L-canceling's transition from SSB - SSBM*

Mission failed...

- They leave an unfair advantage to the minority that know them

Here's an idea, let's remove all the buttons and characters except for one. This way everyone will be playing at the same level and you won't have to worry about such meaningless things as skill.

- They are unnecessary

If they are indeed uncessary than what's the point of removing them. Just play without such extraneous and hideous factors such as advanced techniques.

- Brawl =/= Melee

Greatest argument evar!

- If you want them you should stick to Melee.

I was wrong, this is the greatest argument evar!

- Easier to remove the techniques altogether than to teach the majority of Smash owners these techs to be on par with other people.

Jesus Christ, anything is ****ing easier than getting you to shut the hell up. No Johns, QQ More, GTFO, You lose, good day sir.

 

[maelstrom218]

Your complaint is that the gameplay mechanics and overall difficulty/execution factor should be leveled so that EVERYONE has a fighting chance--so that it's more "fair." But tell me, do you think it's fair that if someone's spent 5 years playing Smash, a person who's played for a day can stand on equal footing with them?

That's like saying someone who's finished grad school with an MD degree and someone who's just finished high school have the same chance at nailing that really prestigious job that pays 200K a year. Obviously, that's stupid because if you invest more time in something, you should be able to yield higher returns than someone who's invested no time at all. This is fair. Not your concept of "everyone gets their shot, regardless of who plays."

Advanced techniques simply emphasize the difference between those who invest time in Smash, and those who do not. You spend time learning Smash, you yield high returns in the form of being able to space better (wavedashing/dashdancing) and combo better (thanks to L-cancelling). You don't spend time learning Smash, you stay at the skill level of a newbie. That makes sense to me.

And remember, Dogenzaka, Smash is played by hardcore fighter fans, who'll do ANYTHING to win--which includes exploiting glitches, infinites, and broken tactics. They'll spam Testament's Badlands chain in GGXX^C, abuse Magneto's infinite in MvC2, and they'll abuse advanced techniques in Smash, because it gives them an advantage.

If you feel offended by the attitude of these kinds of people, then perhaps the easiest solution is to simply not play advanced players at all.

 

[Dogenzaka]

Fine, we'll do this your way. And this will be my last response, because this thread will soon be closed and you are obviously trying to troll.

The thread is going to be closed because I post my opinion and want a healthy debate? Then this forum is a load of ****. Sorry.

Me wanting to provide a different opinion rather than "YES WAVEDASHING NEEDS TO BE IN NOOBS" makes me trolling? No.

It's really not made up.

Show me the calculator you used to make these stats then.

Tech skill does not matter.

LOL if that were true people wouldn't use it.

Read moar. I never said you couldn't do them, I said you don't play competitively.

You can't say that either. You don't know me.

And you've completely failed to make any point whatsoever.

No you.

And how is that relevant?

If this is a joke, you failed, and you're becoming immature in debating.

If it isn't, I never posted that.

Again, quoting out of context doesn't do any good.

What did I quote of context that regardless of it wasn't true?

*Looks at L-canceling's transition from SSB - SSBM*

Mission failed...

lol 10 month development cycle.

Here's an idea, let's remove all the buttons and characters except for one.

Irrelevant. Buttons were intended to play the game with.

If they are indeed uncessary than what's the point of removing them.

Because they are unnecessary.

Jesus Christ, anything is ****ing easier than getting you to shut the hell up. No Johns, QQ More, GTFO, You lose, good day sir.

l33tspeak and flaming doesn't mean you win or I lose. You just seem to not have the stamina to discuss with me.

I was wrong, this is the greatest argument evar!

Thank you.

Greatest argument evar!

Thank you again.

But tell me, do you think it's fair that if someone's spent 5 years playing Smash, a person who's played for a day can stand on equal footing with them?

No, clearly the one with 5 more years of experience will be better, but at least factors in the fight won't include these techs or glitches.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

But if my friend wants to be on par with me, he is pressured to learn it.

This is where you throw reasoning out the window. It sounds to me like you want a game where the entire game is seeing who can press the A-button more rapidly in 5 seconds. Even then, I can see you complaining that people "cheat" by positioning their hands in such a way where they can press the button more rapidly. It is clearly "cheating" because now people are holding the control in a way "that the developers never intended".

If your friend is not as good as you are at the game, then he clearly needs to improve! If you truly believe what you are saying then you ought to dumb yourself down to his level. Maybe you should be forbidden from using any B-button specials. You have this weird belief that every fight should be dead even, while we are saying that learning new tactics/tricks gives us a fair advantage.

 

[Adi]

No he's right. Technical skill does not matter at the high level because ANYONE can muster the dexterity to the do the basic advanced techniques necessary to win. At that point it becomes irrelevant.

You just seem to not have the stamina to discuss with me.

No it's because at this point I realize that either

A) You are a troll
B) You are too dense to ever change