Melee in HD with minimal lag (with figures/testing)

[Redact]

http://www.solarisjapan.com/products/XRGB%2dmini-Framemeister-Compact-Up-Scaler-Unit.html

This product is an (expensive) answer to our HD woes.

When tested with PAL melee scaling from 480i to 1080p, the unit reports 1.36ms delay.
NTSC melee scaling from 480p to 1080p reports 1.29ms delay.

When combined with a good monitor (it's been tested with a Samsung syncmaster 2494hs and a benq g2412) you're looking at less than 10ms delay total, which is dependent on monitor.

Credit to Plasia, the man who owns one of these excessively expensive units.

More figures/tests can be produced upon request, if Plasia has the resources.

Tl;dr: Spend all this money and you can have melee in HD with no noticeable lag in the slightest.

 

[Dan Salvato]

"HD" is misleading. Neither the Gamecube nor the Wii support resolutions any higher than 480p, so what you're getting is upscaling, or resizing the image into a fake HD. Progressive scan (p) always looks better than interlaced (i), but it shouldn't be referred to as HD. What this may do is eliminate lag off of some LCDs that need to upscale the 480i/480p signal into 720p/1080p.

If you want Melee in TRUE HD with no lag, get a powerful PC and load it in the Dolphin emulator.

 

[Redact]

It is still HD regardless, the image you're looking at is HD despite it being low quality HD as its only up scaled 480p/i

This is a solution for the scaling issue as most scaling options only come with huge lag.

Do you see me claiming true/original image HD? no, I've stated its 480p/i scaled up from the start.

 

[Dan Salvato]

Do you see me claiming true/original image HD? no, I've stated its 480p/i scaled up from the start.

Sorry, I'm a bit of a graphic artist and thus pretty butthurt about image/video quality. I just don't like referring to upscaled images as HD, 'cause it's like when people take tiny images and stretch them out as a desktop background. *shudders*

 

[ajp_anton]

This thread isn't about Melee in HD with minimal lag, it's about Melee displayed on HDTVs with minimal lag.

IMO, An "analog" protography converted to digital HD could be called HD no matter the quality, because you're actually building the crappy image from the required number of samples, including all sorts of noise and grain in the process that actually have that kind of precision.
A digital image upscaled to HD never had that kind of precision and never will, and so that image doesn't contain anything HD.

 

[Redact]

This thread is about melee being displayed at 1080p with minimal lag. Any image being displayed at 1080p, despite what the original quality may have been, is still HD even if it looks the same as 480i/p or any other SD resolution.

HD is defined simply by the resolution of the image, not the actual quality in the end.

 

[ajp_anton]

Why would anyone want this to simply display Melee in HD?
Now, displaying Melee on their existing HDTVs, that's something people would want.

I know I'm nitpicking. And i know that, sadly, 2x1080p is within the definition of 1080p. It's simply misleading information, and "Melee in HD" is just that.

 

[Redact]

But you realize it IS melee in HD?

It is melee, being displayed at 1080p, regardless of the image quality.

The image being displayed on a HD monitor (which we could also do on a HDTV) at 1080p.

This can be use to circumvent the excessively slow scaling systems most/all HDTV's currently have. The idea is to take this, use it to upscale the image without lag, and output the image from the unit to whatever display at its native resolution thus dodging the slow scaling from whatever display you use.

This IS melee in HD, the title is not misleading. The issue is that you have somehow come to the conclusion that HD = High quality image/original image at 1080p, which is incorrect.

 

[Plasia]

The unit menu comes initially in Japanese. However the firmware updates are either English or Japanese (you can choose) and the remote isn't really that hard to work out. So as soon as you update the firmware it becomes much friendlier to use.

 

[Jonas]

This image is in HD:
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7982/lort.jpg

It's only one color, meaning it essentially has one pixel worth of information, but it's still HD because it's displayed on your HD computer monitor!

Stating that you can have Melee in HD with this upscaler thingamagig, while true from a technical standpoint, is misleading because the image will not contain more information than the original SD image. It's like false advertisement.

It's still neat that we can play it on a modern HDTV with only 10 ms of lag (essentially 0 lag because the game only runs at 60fps), but don't call it HD, please.

 

[Massive]

http://www.solarisjapan.com/products/XRGB%2dmini-Framemeister-Compact-Up-Scaler-Unit.html

This product is an (expensive) answer to our HD woes.

When tested with PAL melee scaling from 480i to 1080p, the unit reports 1.36ms delay.
NTSC melee scaling from 480p to 1080p reports 1.29ms delay.

When combined with a good monitor (it's been tested with a Samsung syncmaster 2494hs and a benq g2412) you're looking at less than 10ms delay total, which is dependent on monitor.

Credit to Plasia, the man who owns one of these excessively expensive units.

More figures/tests can be produced upon request, if Plasia has the resources.

Tl;dr: Spend all this money and you can have melee in HD with no noticeable lag in the slightest.

Such devices have existed for quite a while, fortunately most of them are not 500 dollars. Do you actually own one of these or did you just find it on the internet? If you own one I hope you're using the D-Sub/VGA output as the VGA connection on most HDTVs is (usually) not filtered and will give the best possible performance.

I agree with everyone else though, the title of this thread should be "Melee on your HDTV with minimal lag" or "I found a good upscaler for melee on my HDTV"; melee in HD implies that the game itself is being rendered at a higher resolution, not simply upscaled.

 

[ajp_anton]

But you realize it IS melee in HD?

It is melee, being displayed at 1080p, regardless of the image quality.

The image being displayed on a HD monitor (which we could also do on a HDTV) at 1080p.

This can be use to circumvent the excessively slow scaling systems most/all HDTV's currently have. The idea is to take this, use it to upscale the image without lag, and output the image from the unit to whatever display at its native resolution thus dodging the slow scaling from whatever display you use.

This IS melee in HD, the title is not misleading. The issue is that you have somehow come to the conclusion that HD = High quality image/original image at 1080p, which is incorrect.

Did you even read what I wrote? I know what HD is. This is Melee upscaled to HD, and the resolution is HD. But it's misleading, because we expect it to be good quality, which it isn't. Using the word "HD" like that makes it completely lose its meaning.
edit: Jonas describes it well as "false advertisement".

Also, if you can call this "Melee in HD" is actually up for debate. It depends on what you mean by "Melee".
The game is never rendered in HD, so the game itself, Melee, won't be in HD. The image however that shows what is rendered is in HD.

 

[Acryte]

NEW IDEA: Inexpensive melee lag test...

Plug in 2 wavebirds, tune them to the same controller input. Put bot tvs side-by-side dashdance as fast as possible or just do any move that changes visually with each frame. Take a picture. Look at the two screens in the picture for frame difference.

This can be done with 2 wii/gcns or 1 and a splitter

I haven't tested with my monitor but it seemed like it had 1 frame of lag when it WASN'T on game mode and wasn't on fast response mode. Now that i changed it I can't honestly detect any input lag but I need 1 more wavebird connector to check it. Its a 720p monitor and im playing it in 480p with component cables and it looks so damn good.