Melee =/= Brawl (Not a hate topic on either game)

[WastingPenguins]

Personally I think we should incorporate items and such for a few months before banning MK for a few months.

Too bad this is unrealistic. Competitive smashers have already brainwashed themselves to the point where any amount of change is too much.

Man the NBA should totally incorporate trap doors and oil slicks on their courts, and every now and then bean bag chairs should drop randomly from the ceiling. Too bad this is unrealistic. Competitive basketball players have already brainwashed themselves into thinking that basketball must be played in such a boring regular way.

 

[huafei]

Wow! I’ve never heard of this before and I think they’re awesome!

 

[TheREALShadowChaos]

We banned Smash Balls because they were unfair, yet the lower tiers, the ones that need them, get the better ones, and the higher ups get the worse ones. Have you noticed that? That is the epitome of balance.

Personally, I prefer the air! disagree.

 

[Koji123]

Rk, lemme see if I can understand your train of thought here. So basically your saying that by searching for AT's in brawl like we did in melee we are automatically thinking in this "melee mentality"? I mean we search for AT's in other fighting games. I don't think its right to call it "melee mentality" since we've been doing this since before melee, ever since Pong came out we looked for better ways for your paddle to hit the "ball". By your logic if we we're to have played Melee before say... Street Fighter 2 Turbo and we were looking for AT's in SF2 like we did for melee we would be looking for them with our"Melee mentality"? That just doesn't seem right to me because again, we've been doing this since before melee or video games even existed.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

I hate Brawl and items and tripping and changes in damage ratio and final smashes and Meta Knight and Infinites and easy chaingrabs and slowness and camping and Brawl+ and Brawl noobs and lack of combos and lack of hitstun and lack of l canceling and lack of wavedashing and

AKSFJA;LKFJA;K;AKA;JS

it makes me MAD.

I love Melee and hitstun and combos and speed and Falco(n) combos and combos and DIing combos and ****ing up people's bad DI and PC Chris and maybe M2K and edgeguarding and difficult chaingrabs that lead into **** and Yoshi's Story and crouch cancel (teching) and ledge techs and tech chasing and wavedashing and dash dancing and complex shield games and Shai Dropping and ledge canceling and being awake for Grand Finals and making fun of Brawl and beating Brawl noobs and not being pissed after I lose because I feel like I actually deserve to lose when I do and Wombo Combo and getting Wombo Combod and

=DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDd

it makes me MAD that I can't continue but ****, I need to study for physics midterm bye.

 

[|RK|]

Rk, lemme see if I can understand your train of thought here. So basically your saying that by searching for AT's in brawl like we did in melee we are automatically thinking in this "melee mentality"? I mean we search for AT's in other fighting games. I don't think its right to call it "melee mentality" since we've been doing this since before melee, ever since Pong came out we looked for better ways for your paddle to hit the "ball". By your logic if we we're to have played Melee before say... Street Fighter 2 Turbo and we were looking for AT's in SF2 like we did for melee we would be looking for them with our"Melee mentality"? That just doesn't seem right to me because again, we've been doing this since before melee or video games even existed.

Nope. I specifically mean how we search for ATs. Notice the trend of calling any ATs that have to do with movement Wave-something? Everyone wants to name their AT Wave-somethingelse...

Wavebouncing

 

[ndayday]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the only wave-something AT in Brawl? I can name quite a few ATs that involve movement (sliding too) that aren't named wave-something. Ever heard of boost-smashing? How about Yoshi's Dragonic Reverse? These both are involved in motion, and the latter especially is pretty similar to Melee's wavedash...but they aren't named wave boosting, or Yoshi's Wavedash.

There is nothing wrong with naming something after something it looks like, especially when it is such a known AT in the community that every single person should and probably does know it.

 

[Masmasher@]

Zhu is awesome. His 2 posts summed up so much wisdom that it turned solid and you can feed it to kids as cereal.

Try out ZHUS

lol


Dont all attack me at once.

 

[Koji123]

Nope. I specifically mean how we search for ATs. Notice the trend of calling any ATs that have to do with movement Wave-something? Everyone wants to name their AT Wave-somethingelse...

Wavebouncing

O.k... but naming an AT and looking for AT's has no relation to each other whatsoever, the name is only there to help describe the move as opposed to saying "The move where you do this crazy momentum bounce effect." Just because people are idiots and want to staple "wave" to new AT's found in brawl doesn't mean we are searching for them with this melee mentality. We are merely keeping the "wave" trend for AT names.To be honest there were only three AT's that I remember that had the word wave in them in SSBM, wave dashing, wave landing and wave shining but the name is only there to identify the AT's from one another and the fact that all three had wave in them was to show that they were similar to each other.​

You still haven't told me what this melee mentality is by the way. Is it the act of searching for at's? Or is it the whole wanting to include the word wave after every technique we find?​

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PS: I Totally agree with you on how stupid it was to add wave to wave bouncing. B-sticking sounded a lot better if you ask me.​

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[|RK|]

As I explained, it's the same reason why many people didn't test items before writing them out (EXAMPLE)

 

[yummynbeefy]

guys think of it like this

no matter what game we play we are still playing smash and we are still in the same community

 

[Koji123]

As I explained, it's the same reason why many people didn't test items before writing them out (EXAMPLE)

The reason we don't look at items as a way to balance the game is because the appearance of items and where they pop up on the stage has nothing to do with the players skill or knowledge of the game, much like the act of tripping. Tell me, would you like it if you were winning a match solely on skill only to have it taken away by a capsule exploding in your face? What items could you see in play that wouldn't have a similar effect?​

If items were incorporated in competitive play it would no longer be a game about who predicts who first and profits but instead it'll be about who gets the items first... and profits.​

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[|RK|]

I said TEST items.

In Melee we had reason to say that items were broken because we tested them.

From Melee > Brawl we did NOT do extensive testing as we did for Melee.

Again, this is an example.

I know that items will not balance the game.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Because it's basically the same thing. Items add randomness. Randomness = anticompetitive. The only real difference between Brawl and Melee items is that Brawl has a larger quantity of stupid items.
There are more reasons, but I honestly don't feel like getting into it. I'll just say this: it has been debated countless times. You are NOT, I repeat, NOT, the first person to question this. Conclusions have been drawn for a reason, not blindly like you - for I don't know what reason - think.

 

[Koji123]

I said TEST items.

In Melee we had reason to say that items were broken because we tested them.

From Melee > Brawl we did NOT do extensive testing as we did for Melee.

Again, this is an example.

I know that items will not balance the game.​

The fact that we didn't test them doesn't change anything, it was time better spent else where.​

You know, how about you use a different example so we can stop rambling on about items since you said it yourself, items wont balance anything. xD​

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[masterspeaks]

Brawl isn't progressing because it is a mistake to try and play it competitively.Have fun playing items or free for all, but we shouldn't expect to have a complex competitive metagame.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

Brawl isn't progressing because it is a mistake to try and play it competitively.Have fun playing items or free for all, but we shouldn't expect to have a complex competitive metagame.

The only thing I found wrong with what you said was the ".H". Insert a space after the period and you're on the right track.

 

[Koji123]

Brawl isn't progressing because it is a mistake to try and play it competitively.Have fun playing items or free for all, but we shouldn't expect to have a complex competitive metagame.

Well I don't think most people want a complex meta game just a balanced and less shallow meta game. That's not too much to ask right?​

 

[Yuna]

I said TEST items.

In Melee we had reason to say that items were broken because we tested them.

From Melee > Brawl we did NOT do extensive testing as we did for Melee.

Again, this is an example.

I know that items will not balance the game.

I've done extensive testing. The ISP is doing testing (or so they claim). Items are still broken and no matter how much testing is done, they will always remain random (unless the creators change how items work considerably).

Tell me, how have items changed in such a way they should now be allowed? Have you done any testing? Have you found anything to support the unbanning of items? Items are already banned. If you want them unbanned, petition for their unbanning and do some tests yourself.

We're not going to allow items back on for several months for "testing purposes" every time a new Smash comes out when we've already proven items to be broken.