Megaman Zero Mafia/Newbie 21! Game Over. Mafia Wins!

[#HBC | Joker]

And get that bull**** about me targetting people who go after me out of here. Are you supposed to get a free pass from me just because you happen to be going after me? No, **** that. If I wanna keep an eye on your dumb ***, I'm going to. The fact that you are also targetting me is irrelevant. It's because you said you were voting me as a result of the badwolf town flip, you said so yourself.

 

[Dooms]

I played both sides? LOL. I was defending him. He wasn't doing the whole "I'm not going to give any reads thing" when I was defending him, and I obviously didn't agree with your reasoning before he gave up. I didn't vote him for the reasons you did. I voted him for not doing what every townie should do. You tunneled him for him only defending himself, I voted him for openly stating that he wasn't going to give reads and that he didn't care anymore. You changing your reasoning after he stated that doesn't make you any more right previous to that BadWolf post. Nice try and nice reaching.

Main push in the fact that I was the person actually pressuring you and conversing with you. There was a reason why people were debating between voting you and voting BadWolf. I'm sure at least two people openly stated that they agreed with some of the stuff that I said. I don't have to get votes to put pressure on someone.

It's just a coincidence that you only have the people that go after you or state that they may want you gone as null/scum, right? .

I said I was looking into you due to the BadWolf flip. This does not imply in any way that I only have you as a scum read due to BadWolf flipping town. If BadWolf was to flip scum, I wouldn't have looked into you any farther and would have probably ignored you for the rest of the game because you're ********, but he was town, so I'm going to look into you. That's just how it is lol. Trying to say in any case that I had you as scum when I pushed for your lynch literally the whole last half of the day phase besides the hammer... Yeah reaching isn't townie btw. Not sure if you knew this since it's literally all you're doing and it's making you look bad .

 

[#HBC | Kary]

However, this obviously hasn't changed. You're still making reaching points, you're still only showing distaste in the people that go after you, and you're still playing this game very poorly.

You're not going to change the way you play. The way you play is scummy. Therefore, I want you dead.

Wow, Joey.

#1 Shouldn't you be looking for scum, not just players that act scummy?
#2 Shouldn't you have pushed more for Joker-B to be lynched yesterDay, if that's what you wanted?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Badwolf didn't call me scum until AFTER I started pressuring him. It was blatant OMGUS from him, not me. I was going after him because he wasn't doing anything. I could have written it off as simple inactivity, but every time somebody called him scum, all of a sudden he became very active. So yea, it was clear to me that he was voluntarily not reading anybody. the only difference between my vote on Badwolf, and your vote on Badwolf, is that I figured out what he was doing sooner than you did.

And you keep calling EVERYTHNG I do say or do "reaching". Just because it isn't certain doesn't make it reaching. If that were the case, then there's literally nothing anyone could ever say or do that wouldn't be reaching.

Nice job painting me as anti-town at every possible opportunity, just because I happen to be looking at you.

^ See how easy it is for me to make up dumb bull**** like you do?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I have talked to somebody about the issue of Loli, she doesn't want to replaced and I will give her time before I start looking again.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I have given Gheb and Loli warnings for replacement. I will be granting a Deadline Extension if I do not recieve a response within 24 hours. Sorry for the delay.

 

[Orboknown]

Rereading joker vs joey now/soon

 

[Dooms]

Wow, Joey.

#1 Shouldn't you be looking for scum, not just players that act scummy?
#2 Shouldn't you have pushed more for Joker-B to be lynched yesterDay, if that's what you wanted?

#1: Playing scummy =/= anti-town townie. Scum can play scummy too. I'm pretty sure he's scum due to his EXTREMELY reaching push on BadWolf, the initial push having power due to Rake. He took the easy route, and although I was wrong when I said BadWolf pushed him first, all of his other non-solid town reads are people that have called him scum, voted him, or have openly stated that they were debating between him and BadWolf.

#2 BadWolf's play was ***. He needed to be lynched before end game. Pushing for a Joker lynch when BadWolf was absolutely refusing to do anything for town... .

Badwolf didn't call me scum until AFTER I started pressuring him. It was blatant OMGUS from him, not me. I was going after him because he wasn't doing anything. I could have written it off as simple inactivity, but every time somebody called him scum, all of a sudden he became very active. So yea, it was clear to me that he was voluntarily not reading anybody. the only difference between my vote on Badwolf, and your vote on Badwolf, is that I figured out what he was doing sooner than you did.

And you keep calling EVERYTHNG I do say or do "reaching". Just because it isn't certain doesn't make it reaching. If that were the case, then there's literally nothing anyone could ever say or do that wouldn't be reaching.

Nice job painting me as anti-town at every possible opportunity, just because I happen to be looking at you.

^ See how easy it is for me to make up dumb bull**** like you do?

How about I just call you wrong and move on?

I voted him because he was openly being anti-town by saying he wouldn't be giving reads. You voted him because he was being inactive and he only posted when he was being attacked. These are not similar in the slightest. Get this through your ****ing head you prick. I'm tired of telling you this. It's obnoxious.

You're exaggerating the truth by a lot in order to get what you want. This was obvious with BadWolf. You're trying to make points seem way stronger than they actually are in order to get what you want as well. This is reaching. "The only difference between my vote on Badwolf, and your vote on Badwolf, is that I figured out what he was doing sooner than you did." is a perfect example. You're trying to say that if I were to have voted him for the same reason you did (I DIDN'T YOU *******), then it would somehow make me come across as suspicious and scummy? I could understand this if I were voting you for voting BadWolf, but I'm not. I'm voting you for making a bad as **** reaching case and for playing scummy as hell.

Yes, I'm pissed. Saying the same thing over and over and over won't make it more right. If you're going to try to argue the same thing with me for three ****ing pages, then I'll be glad to ignore you until you get your ****ing head out of your ***.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Yawn

@BSP: What's your read on Joey vs. Joker? Ideally, show me a couple posts that led you to your conclusion.

@Orbo: tell me what you come up with.

@Loli/Gheb: I miss you guys, come back soon.

@Joker: is Joey scum? What led you to this conclusion?

@Joey: Do you have any other scumreads besides Joker?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I dunno if he's scum, but he's definitely an ***. I find him abrasive, obnoxious, and overall just not nice. I think a lot of what he's doing could potentially be interpreted as scum-ish, but I dunno that I'd label him as a top priority right now. He's probably just frustrated, trying to lynch him now would just be so he'd stfu. I'd rather try to lynch scum, so I'd like to look at Orbo, or maybe even Loli.

 

[Dooms]

If Joker flips scum, BSP.

If Joker flips town, Loli.

 

[BSP]

I'm siding with Joker right now. I think Masq got really worked up over the D1 events and that's what is driving his push on Joker. Joker hasn't done anything that says "scum" if you ask me.

I looked back and found posts, and I put what I thought about them next to them. This collapse may get repetitive, but it's what I was thinking and I tend to try to reinforce what I'm thinking when I make arguments, so bear with me.

Spoiler

I don’t agree with Masq’s initial read on him to begin with. He says he doesn’t like Joker taking his stances back very quickly, but I would be surprised if Joker had opinions set in stone that early in the game. I don’t blame him for not making conclusions that early.

Joker did try to look around a bit. He wanted to hear from Ori, and he mentioned the Orbo/Rake slot a good bit D1, but most of that got drowned out with the BW v Joker thing.

Also, I disagree that the idea that Joker looking into out for the people that are going for him is scum tell. First, that’s not all he’s tried to do, and second, if he’s a townie, what’s wrong with looking into who’s pressuring you so much?

Here’s Joker’s initial reasoning for saying we should look into Badwolf. Badwolf was the one who started the whole fiasco with the knee jerk reaction post, and Joker follows up with a vote. What’s wrong with looking into the reaction?

Masq, I think you're the one who starts pointing fingers a lot. Here, you say that Joker is accusing BW for being wrong, and Joker didn’t say that. Here’s Joker’s reasoning, and he did in fact say that he didn’t like BW’s reactions to being looked at.

Then Masq starts saying that Joker's reaching. I don’t see what makes Joker scum. Masq said it himself that BW wasn’t helping us in any way. And he just continues to object to Joker’s train of thought.

Masq, I think you need to lay off of Joker a bit. I think you're going after Joker a bit too hard. You said here and here BW V Joker was scum v town. I think you’re jumping to conclusions too early here.

Joker’s certainly got some flaws in his play, ie confidence I'll give you, but I think you're getting a little too worked up and not giving Joker a chance. At this point, I'd say you're tunneling him a bit.

And why do you want to look at me if Joker flips scum?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Gheb_01 has requested replacement. Contacting Frozenflame now.

 

[LoliLovesRain]

I'm going to read whatever I missed out on later on tonight.

I remember earlier you guys were asking why I chose Joker over BadWolf iirc?

My reasoning honestly was if I had to choose between one or the other I'm going to choose the person I dislike playing with. I don't like the way Joker plays. It makes me want to hit my head several times over. He's arrogant and seems hard headed and just meh. When reading what was going on between the two of them I felt as if when BW was reading everything Joker was saying he too was hitting himself on the head and posting out of anger and just wanting joker out of the game but going about it all wrong. I think if given the chance BadWolf would have been able to give out better or more reads when he tried. I don't think he would have tried unless Joker was lynched though. Everything that happened with Joker vs. BadWolf made me feel as if BadWolf was giving up on Joker and saying **** this kid because he wanted him gone already.

@Joker: Do not take what I say offensively. This is strictly in the game but you said it yourself that you play arrogant because it's mafia. I'm just telling you it really irks me and makes me want to lynch you D1 of every game no matter what.

I'm going to read what I missed later tonight like I said and see what i get from everything that happened. Thanks for not replacing me soup!

 

[Orboknown]

@kary-getting a dalmatians town feeling from joey. Joker nulltownish, but could be scum.

 

[Dooms]

My reasoning honestly was if I had to choose between one or the other I'm going to choose the person I dislike playing with. I don't like the way Joker plays. It makes me want to hit my head several times over. He's arrogant and seems hard headed and just meh. When reading what was going on between the two of them I felt as if when BW was reading everything Joker was saying he too was hitting himself on the head and posting out of anger and just wanting joker out of the game but going about it all wrong. I think if given the chance BadWolf would have been able to give out better or more reads when he tried. I don't think he would have tried unless Joker was lynched though. Everything that happened with Joker vs. BadWolf made me feel as if BadWolf was giving up on Joker and saying **** this kid because he wanted him gone already.

I didn't want to say this because of the fact that it'd be an unfair reason to not lynch him, but I'm 95% sure that Joker is the reason that BadWolf didn't give reads. I was hoping that he'd just ignore the guy and give reads regardless, but he didn't. Let this be a lesson to you guys (including BadWolf who may still be reading): If you dislike a person on a player list and feel like he'll ruin the game for you, then don't sign up for the game with him. If you ARE in the same game as the guy, then you signed up for it and therefore should just deal with it. Games don't go on forever, ya know.

@BSP: To put it simply: You defended him hardcore and literally tried to get me to look away from him day one when his play has been ***. Seems like a newbie scum tactic to me.

I'm not looking in other directions/am tunneling because the other directions I've built are based on Joker's flip. That and having him as a scum read means that I want him dead lol.

 

[Orboknown]

Any one you would compromise on joey?

 

[Dooms]

BSP definitely. Either IC if convinced (I have null read on both).

 

[Orboknown]

Alright, gives me a focus forreread

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Frozenflame751 replaces Gheb_01! Effective immediately.

 

[Orboknown]

Hey there frozen. Hows it feel to know you can't die n1 this game?

 

[BSP]

@kary-getting a dalmatians town feeling from joey. Joker nulltownish, but could be scum.

What does this mean?

Also, wouldn't "nulltownish, but could be scum" just be a null?

Would you put a vote to lynch Joker toDay?

@BSP: To put it simply: You defended him hardcore and literally tried to get me to look away from him day one when his play has been ***. Seems like a newbie scum tactic to me.

Where did I tell you to look away from Joker on D1?

And ok @ your last part.

 

[Orboknown]

Meta. Joey was town in that game and had a fit.
Hes townish, but i could see him being scum.

 

[Dooms]

Oh, I was wrong re-reading through the end of day one lol. Replace "and literally tried to get me to look away from him day one" with "and are literally trying to get me to look away from him right now".

 

[#HBC | Joker]

@Loli, what's your read on Orbo?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Meta. Joey was town in that game and had a fit.
Hes townish, but i could see him being scum.

meta/metagame (with reference to a player): how a player typically plays mafia, particularly with reference to how a player normally plays a given alignment or role. Often involves comparing a player's actions with how they played in another game

Meta. Joey was town in that game and had a fit.
Hes townish, but i could see him being scum.

Talk to me about his stance on Badwolf vs Joker?

#2 BadWolf's play was ***. He needed to be lynched before end game. Pushing for a Joker lynch when BadWolf was absolutely refusing to do anything for town... .

I'm not looking in other directions/am tunneling because the other directions I've built are based on Joker's flip. That and having him as a scum read means that I want him dead lol.

@Joey: you have tripped my scumdar this game! How does this make you feel?

BSP definitely. Either IC if convinced (I have null read on both).

I take it you have a town read on Loli? Please elaborate on that for me.

 

[Dooms]

@Joey: you have tripped my scumdar this game! How does this make you feel?

Stopped caring about the game after I realized how obnoxious Joker was, so I really couldn't give any less of a damn than I do now.

Will probably answer everything else after band.

V/LA Thurs-Sun .

 

[LoliLovesRain]

All right

@Masq : In post #(338) you state that , "I'd rather lynch a scummy than a townie that has given up, which is what I feel that BadWolf is."

However you hammered badwolf and in post #(482) you said you were defending BW before he wasn't going to give out reads but it was evident you knew he had given up.

Does this not contradict your reasoning in post 338?

@Kary: I missed you too Also, you mentioned earlier wrt Badwolf i remember reading you say that you were looking at badwolf and it was completely unrelated to rakes case. Why were you looking at BadWolf at that time since i don't recall if you ever mentioned it?

@Joker: I've only played one game with Orbo in which he was V/la ...through most of it xD I have a null read on him as of now. I feel like he may be posting a little more than he normally would to appease you. Are these two reasons you're looking into Orbo or are there more? >> #(345) and #239

For me Orbo in a nut shell
#(202) V/LA
#(286) Reading but busy
#(291) read through page 4 with some reads~
#(414) V/LA and vote
#(450) states he was busy
#(464) Has still only read to page 4 but says that he felt joker was more townie.

Basically he's at a null and all i'm getting from him is that he's really busy and it makes sense and i can't hold it against him since real life takes precedence.

 

[Dooms]

It does.

Not lynching BadWolf with the way he was playing... :s. Plus it could clear up my Joker read if he were to flip scum, meaning I'd have reason to look elsewhere. However... :s.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Thank you Loli.

We haven't heard from Gheb/Frozen in awhile

@Frozen, got any substantial reads? What do you make of Badwolf's town flip? Whenever you get caught up.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

It does.

Not lynching BadWolf with the way he was playing... :s. Plus it could clear up my Joker read if he were to flip scum, meaning I'd have reason to look elsewhere. However... :s.

Pretend Badwolf HAD flipped scum. Where would you be looking?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I take it you have a town read on Loli? Please elaborate on that for me.

also @Joey: you genuinely think BSP + Joker could be scumteam?

@Kary: I missed you too Also, you mentioned earlier wrt Badwolf i remember reading you say that you were looking at badwolf and it was completely unrelated to rakes case. Why were you looking at BadWolf at that time since i don't recall if you ever mentioned it?

Haha, there wasn't much to it, mostly RVS stuff. When I said that I knew I didn't have enough to push Badwolf based on it, but I was trying to get him to respond.
V

Confirmed
Woo this should be interesting.

This was the first thing, I wasn't sure why he said interesting; stood out to me.
V

Well I was considering the first 2 newb games I was in... I was scum both those times so I said finally and for once. I kinda don't like your reaching.

This was second. I probably was reaching, but I wasn't trying to make Badwolf look scummy; this seemed like a bit of an over-reaction.

got to dash

 

[#HBC | Kary]

oh yeah

Vote: Joey

 

[Dooms]

Until Joker flips town, I have Loli as town.

Joker + BSP wouldn't surprise me at all. Possible scum team, yes.

 

[Orboknown]

Why is lolis alignment dependant on jokers flip?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Until Joker flips town, I have Loli as town.

Until?

Shouldn't that be IF?

Joker + BSP wouldn't surprise me at all. Possible scum team, yes.

Right. So why is BSP hard-defending his fairly suspicious-looking partner?


Oh, and given most of your reads centre around Joker's flip, why didn't you make more of a push for his lynch yesterDay?

Hmm. One more question. How good are you at playing scum?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

EBWOP:
Shouldn't that be UNLESS?

 

[Orboknown]

Reread a bit. Jokers responses to joey have been grimy, as was how he handled badwolf late in the day. @kary- could you see their interaction as SVS?
Not used to joey being so closed minded as town.
@Ff- opinion on jary when you read up.

 

[Dooms]

Until?

Shouldn't that be IF?



Right. So why is BSP hard-defending his fairly suspicious-looking partner?


Oh, and given most of your reads centre around Joker's flip, why didn't you make more of a push for his lynch yesterDay?

Hmm. One more question. How good are you at playing scum?

Until =/= 100% certainty. "Until he fails my class, I'll trust him to do his work." or "I'm fine with this job until I get shot." So no, it doesn't have to be if. Nice try though. Painting me as scum must be fun for you, right?

In order to keep him from being lynched? We only have to go through 2 more phases. If I get lynched, that's 1. Unless they go full ******, they can get another lynch after me.

I didn't make more of a push because BadWolf was playing really anti-town and needed to be lynched. I've said this several times. Repeating myself is boring.

I'm horrible at scum. Usually replace out every time I get it. Never win as scum, either. Like my whole scum team falls apart simply because I'm there . Same for town though so -shrug-.

 

[LoliLovesRain]

Joey....if you thought Joker was scum and a lot of your reads are dependent on his flip then why on earth would you not have kept your vote for joker yesterday instead of hammering badwolf? You said it yourself before how you rather lynch a scummy than a townie. If you knew badwolf was townie that gave up why not stick to your gut and lynch someone you felt was scum? Also, the until made me think you knew joker was town btw.

Please answer Orbos question as to why jokers flip is dependent on your read on me?