Q&A Mechanics & Techniques Discussion

[TheReflexWonder]

So I guess the idea is that at an edge, the backward momentum of a skid has nowhere to go, and since there's less momentum you have to decelerate for when you move in the opposite direction, you get more forward momentum.

Certain characters have been doing this outside of the edge for a while; this was really good on Yoshi in Brawl, and this tech is basically the equivalent of shellshifting for Squirtle, but requiring an edge for some characters to really get much out of it.

The secret to its usefulness isn't really touched upon, but is briefly shown; the end of your skid animation seems to be the equivalent of the neutral position. You can let go of the stick at any point in the dash turnaround away from the ledge to be in neutral while still sliding, giving you movement while using normally-stationary options, such as Jab, Grab, D-Smash, or canceling the skid into a run backward to do it again. This is big for characters who slide a great deal, since they have more flexibility; it looks like Greninja would be a noticeable boost from it, for instance.

I'll probably make a video playing around with that idea. It could be a bigger deal than initially thought.

 

[Lavani]

I was messing around with Pac-Man's fire hydrant, when...

What happened was I used a grab before the water sprayed up, and I was still able to do standing grabs midair. Attempting to jab resulted in nair instead, and then I fell. I haven't looked into it any further than what's shown here yet, but there might be some interesting possibilities with grounded actions midair after windboxes depending on what this works with.

EDIT: Some brief testing is leading me to believe this is just a really weird quirk with Olimar's grab specifically and I just happened to pick the right character and right move to try at the right time. Really bizarre.

 

[Jords2Good]

I'm not sure if this was posted but here but I found a video of ledgesnapping with sonic.

Ledgesnapping & You - feat. Sonic: http://youtu.be/aQj-yakgh6M

I main sonic so this makes me curious to see if its good or not.
Just prepare to pause at the text. They don't stay around long enough.

 

[BBC7]

I "discovered" an alternative way to Perfect Pivot F-Tilt that doesn't require changing your C-Stick to Attack. It's also much easier to perform than an empty Perfect Pivot, in my opinion.

I don't know exactly how to explain it, but you basically dash backwards, then hold forward before the end of your dash and hit A to F-Tilt. It is much easier to perform if your analog stick is never in neutral while you do this.

So let's assume the character is facing right
->(no )

EDIT: Plenty of people beat me to it, it seems

 

[Opana]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_8r12Bvsr3U

Yes these two things are common knowledge but has the difference been explored?

I apologize if I waste your time.

 

[OddCrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCDvsHON4e8&feature=youtu.be

not exactly advanced,

The first one can also be a ftilt by hitting "A" instead of c-stick, and the second one can grab moving projectiles too, like mechakoopas.

 

[BBC7]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCDvsHON4e8&feature=youtu.be

not exactly advanced,

The first one can also be a ftilt by hitting "A" instead of c-stick, and the second one can grab moving projectiles too, like mechakoopas.

This is what I was trying to explain except with an F-Tilt.

 

[M15t3R E]

This is what I was trying to explain except with an F-Tilt.

It's just a pivoted tilt. You didn't discover it first.

 

[BBC7]

It's just a pivoted tilt. You didn't discover it first.

I knew that I probably wasn't the first to find it, I just didn't know how to word it to let people know that it was probably found already. It also didn't cross my mind that it was just simply a pivoted tilt, since I'm usually used to pivoting attacks when I run past someone. I suppose I learned my lesson - see if anyone else found it before I perform a Christopher Columbus.

 

[M15t3R E]

I knew that I probably wasn't the first to find it, I just didn't know how to word it to let people know that it was probably found already. It also didn't cross my mind that it was just simply a pivoted tilt, since I'm usually used to pivoting attacks when I run past someone. I suppose I learned my lesson - see if anyone else found it before I perform a Christopher Columbus.

Sorry I wasn't trying to put you down. It is good to divulge new information even if it's just new to you. We have been finding so many new techniques so quickly in this game who knows how much we have yet to discover.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

Can anyone tell me if Shield DI is in this game?

 

[LawofDeath]

Can anyone tell me if Shield DI is in this game?

It is.

 

[CURRY]

Mashing out of the stun after shield break is only possible while grounded, correct?
There's nothing you can do if you're falling offstage in this state?

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I looked through the thread a little to see if this has been discovered but didn't see anything let me know if it has.

So I main mega man and noticed it works best with characters that slide more and can be more confusing for chars that are facing sideways (luigi, mega man, haven't tested others yet)

Basically you wiggle the control stick left and right so you are constantly pivoting, but if you hold one direction longer and keep the other side pivot short your character can basically slide across the map.

It isn't very fast and I have been doing it on the 3ds so I'm sure it would be easier on the wiiU.

Not sure how useful it would be for most characters I have found it can confuse your opponent and Mega man can shoot his lemons one each way as he moves towards his opponent.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

I looked through the thread a little to see if this has been discovered but didn't see anything let me know if it has.

So I main mega man and noticed it works best with characters that slide more and can be more confusing for chars that are facing sideways (luigi, mega man, haven't tested others yet)

Basically you wiggle the control stick left and right so you are constantly pivoting, but if you hold one direction longer and keep the other side pivot short your character can basically slide across the map.

It isn't very fast and I have been doing it on the 3ds so I'm sure it would be easier on the wiiU.

Not sure how useful it would be for most characters I have found it can confuse your opponent and Mega man can shoot his lemons one each way as he moves towards his opponent.

It's called hazewalking.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

So there are times when you get knocked off stage towards the blast zone. You see that you are out of hitstun for about a second but die anyway. Is there a way to prevent losing a stock by performing an action after getting out of hitstun?

I've heard a long time ago that in Melee (maybe Brawl too) had a mechanic where if you tried to do a special move that changed your momentum opposite of where you were flying (Raptor Boost, Green Missile, etc), you would actually fly towards the blast zone faster and potentially kill yourself. Is that a mechanic here too?

Sometimes I'll charge a Green Missile after leaving hitstun but then die before I release it.

 

[infomon]

Yes, if you're out of hitstun but still in knockback momentum, and you use a Jump or momentum-altering Special move, it will give you an extra push along your knockback trajectory, i.e. towards the blastzone to kill you earlier. At least, I've tested several specials and observed this phenomenon, but not every single one. For example, Fox's down-b (shine) will boost him away from the stage to kill him if used during knockback lol. So be careful

 

[DanGR]

What is that movement from Greninja at 4:17, just as Luigi upsmashes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhUnn_9KDuA#t=4m13s

Perfect pivot? He isn't turning around though.

Does it again at 4:21 with the uptilt, and at 4:25 with the dtilt.

 

[Lavani]

What is that movement from Greninja at 4:17, just as Luigi upsmashes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhUnn_9KDuA#t=4m13s

Perfect pivot?

It's a perfect pivot, yes. I was rewatching that yesterday and noticed aMSa actually uses them a fair bit.

 

[DanGR]

He uses it so fluidly. I wonder if he's tilt-sticking.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Welcome to a solid alternative to traditional dashdancing.

I dedicate this video to Brawl Squirtle. Shine on, you crazy diamond.

 

[LiVeR]

Welcome to a solid alternative to traditional dashdancing.

I dedicate this video to Brawl Squirtle. Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Ledge/Corner Pivot Dash Slide

What is the difference?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The edge pivot stuff merely gives you more momentum. That said, he's basically doing the same technique in that video, but he doesn't touch on how you can cancel it into any option at any point during the turnaround, including another dash backward, which is wayyyyy more useful than just trying to get the maximum distance with an attack.

This is the primary reason Squirtle himself was a good character in Brawl.

 

[LoreLes]

So after watching Izaw's video on the whole Falco thing, there's a segment near the beginning where he talks about jump cancelled upsmash getting an increased slide. Is this common knowledge that it applies to almost every character or am I just really late?

I went and tested this with almost every character and lots of them have great sliding upsmashes if it's jump cancelled. Speed art Shulk, c falcon, and fox benefit from this a lot.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

The distance covered by JCUSmash is mostly dependent on initial dash velocity, run speed, aerial mobility, and traction

But anyway yeah this has been known for a while. It's usually better than straight up running USmash.

 

[LoreLes]

okay thank you

 

[Artmastercorey]

I played against an opponent that i never encounter before online. They were able to power shield everything I did and attack me right away it was hard to punish their mistakes. It was like every single attack I did whether it be projectile or normal attack was power shielded. They would run up to me at top speed I'd try to attack or throw a projectile, they power shield, and it was like i didnt do anything because they just kept moving towards me/grab me before i could escape. I tried doing the same to them but couldnt do it and kept getting punished. Im here asking because we were both moving so fast and even my safe attacks werent that safe. I never encountered an opponent able to power shield everything so easily like this even watching pro videos online of people able to play this way. Is there a way to powershield easier that I dont know of besides timing?

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2013/06/19/the-art-of-wushu-the-truth-about-mind-games-and-timing/

That article goes into detail about the concept of a "critical point". Basically he was reading you very well and not exploiting any sort of tech is what I can surmise.

 

[Chiroz]

Is it known that you can do a Forward Smash/Tilt out of a dash? I don't mean Pivot Tilting/Smashing, I mean literally dashing and just smashing/tilting forward at any point during the dash. I just found out by myself but I am unsure if people already know about this... Feels like a thing that should be advertised more if it's known about, it's pretty useful to know.

I can cover FD 2 & 1/2 Forward Smashes with Captain Falcon, about 3 with Sonic and about close to 5 with Marth (Only 2 F-Smashes are needed with Fox, he can cover up to half of FD with 1 F-Smash). Also you can vary the length of how far you want it to go.

To perform it you initiate a dash then just input another dash in the middle of your dash (as if you were going to "Fox Trot") and then immediately input the smash/tilt. You can vary the length by deciding when to input the second dash, the longer you wait before inputting the second dash the farther the length, but if you go on a full out run it seems to not work (or maybe it has a different timing?).

I feel like it's something basic enough for people to know, but I had never heard of it, so if it is already known don't flame me, just inform me, thanks .

 

[Kofu]

Is it known that you can do a Forward Smash/Tilt out of a dash? I don't mean Pivot Tilting/Smashing, I mean literally dashing and just smashing/tilting forward at any point during the dash. I just found out by myself but I am unsure if people already know about this... Feels like a thing that should be advertised more if it's known about, it's pretty useful to know.

I can cover FD 2 & 1/2 Forward Smashes with Captain Falcon, about 3 with Sonic and about close to 5 with Marth (Only 2 F-Smashes are needed with Fox, he can cover up to half of FD with 1 F-Smash). Also you can vary the length of how far you want it to go.

To perform it you initiate a dash then just input another dash in the middle of your dash (as if you were going to "Fox Trot") and then immediately input the smash/tilt. You can vary the length by deciding when to input the second dash, the longer you wait before inputting the second dash the farther the length, but if you go on a full out run it seems to not work (or maybe it has a different timing?).

I feel like it's something basic enough for people to know, but I had never heard of it, so if it is already known don't flame me, just inform me, thanks .

If it's the same thing I'm thinking of, it has the moniker of "stutter-step FSmash.". I used it some in Brawl but haven't done it much in Smash 4 yet because circle pad johns. But yeah, I think it's known but not super widely utilized. Good reminder!

 

[Chiroz]

If it's the same thing I'm thinking of, it has the moniker of "stutter-step FSmash.". I used it some in Brawl but haven't done it much in Smash 4 yet because circle pad johns. But yeah, I think it's known but not super widely utilized. Good reminder!

Well, it's similar to stutter stepping except for the fact that you can cover 1/4th-1/2 of Final Destination with this, Stutter Stepping is just one step (unless I am wrong about Stutter Stepping).

 

[Indigo Jeans]

This is mechanically identical to stutter stepping. Both techniques involve interrupting a dash within the first few frames with FSmash/FTilt. The thing is that in what you're describing you're interrupting the first dash with a second one, which is the one you attack out of.

It's basically attacking out of a really short foxtrot

 

[Chiroz]

This is mechanically identical to stutter stepping. Both techniques involve interrupting a dash within the first few frames with FSmash/FTilt. The thing is that in what you're describing you're interrupting the first dash with a second one, which is the one you attack out of.

It's basically attacking out of a really short foxtrot

It's not the first few frames of the dash. I can interrupt ANY frame of the dash even the very last one with a second dash and then cancel the starting frames of that dash with a Smash attack.

The thing about this is that you can also cancel your 2nd dash with a 3rd dash and so on and so forth. In other words you can forward tilt or forward smash at any moment you want during a Fox Trot.

Also "really short"? Fox can Foward Smash across half of final destination with this technique. Falcon and Sonic around 40% of FD. Marth and Falco around 30%. And this is doing it out of the very initial frames of your very first dash.

It's almost literally like being able to perform a faster, stronger dash attack.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You can't cancel something like the first half or so of the initial dash into the initial dash, so it's not as flexible as you're suggesting. Useful, sure, but not the equivalent of "insert an F-Smash at any distance without missing a beat."

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I've had this information in the dictionary for a while now under 'stutter step' as I mention that you can use it in conjunction with foxtrots. What I didn't have however is that it can be done with an F-tilt as well according to you. Are you sure you're not just doing a pivot tilt? Because every time I foxtrot forward then input a stutter step in the same direction and try to do an F-tilt with the attack-stick, it just does a dash attack.
[Edit: I believe some people have referred to the combination of foxtrotting and stutterstepping as 'kara smashing' (?) but I haven't added that yet as a separate thing.]

 

[Indigo Jeans]

It's not the first few frames of the dash. I can interrupt ANY frame of the dash even the very last one with a second dash and then cancel the starting frames of that dash with a Smash attack.

The thing about this is that you can also cancel your 2nd dash with a 3rd dash and so on and so forth. In other words you can forward tilt or forward smash at any moment you want during a Fox Trot.

Also "really short"? Fox can Foward Smash across half of final destination with this technique. Falcon and Sonic around 40% of FD. Marth and Falco around 30%. And this is doing it out of the very initial frames of your very first dash.

It's almost literally like being able to perform a faster, stronger dash attack.

You can't cancel a dash into an FSmash at any point though. You can only do it during the initial frames. Also you probably aren't interrupting the first dash into a second dash if you're doing it late. If you try dashing in the opposite direction I can guarantee you you will go into a skid.

I know. You're foxtrotting, then when you want to attack, you just do another dash and cancel it quickly. That's what I tried to say, though I guess I didn't explain myself very well. You're combining a foxtrot with a stutterstep.

When I said short I meant short in terms of number of dashes in the foxtrot. I knew what you meant. 2 dashes strung together quickly is technically a foxtrot, albeit a really short one.

Also I doubt you can FTilt out of dash

 

[Chiroz]

You can't cancel something like the first half or so of the initial dash into the initial dash, so it's not as flexible as you're suggesting. Useful, sure, but not the equivalent of "insert an F-Smash at any distance without missing a beat."

You can't cancel the very beginning of the dash but you can decide when to cancel the second dash in order to set up the distance for the 3rd or 4th. So technically it would be "you can smash attack at any distance you want that is greater than X". Where X is the distance your character covers in the beginning frames of the very first dash. And honestly at that distance you could just stutter step or perfect pivot into a Smash.

 

[Chiroz]

You can't cancel a dash into an FSmash at any point though. You can only do it during the initial frames. Also you probably aren't interrupting the first dash into a second dash if you're doing it late. If you try dashing in the opposite direction I can guarantee you you will go into a skid.

I know. You're foxtrotting, then when you want to attack, you just do another dash and cancel it quickly. That's what I tried to say, though I guess I didn't explain myself very well. You're combining a foxtrot with a stutterstep.

When I said short I meant short in terms of number of dashes in the foxtrot. I knew what you meant. 2 dashes strung together quickly is technically a foxtrot, albeit a really short one.

Also I doubt you can FTilt out of dash

If I dash the opposite way I still get a dash on the opposite direction it's how Trot Dancing or whatever it's called is performed.

Yes I am combining a fox trot with a stutter step but it allows me to Smash out of dashes which in term allows me to punish things from greater distances. With some characters its faster than dash attacking which is a lot to say.

I do think however that I wasn't performing tilts, and that as someone suggested I was just perfect pivoting into forward tilts. I can't quite tell but I cannot recreate tilting even though I try. I think I might have been perfect pivotimg out of the fox trot by pure coincidence yesterday.




Sorry for the double post, this browser my phone has sucks majorly.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

If I dash the opposite way I still get a dash on the opposite direction it's how Trot Dancing or whatever it's called is performed.

Yes I am combining a fox trot with a stutter step but it allows me to Smash out of dashes which in term allows me to punish things from greater distances. With some characters its faster than dash attacking which is a lot to say.

I do think however that I wasn't performing tilts, and that as someone suggested I was just perfect pivoting into forward tilts. I can't quite tell but I cannot recreate tilting even though I try. I think I might have been perfect pivotimg out of the fox trot by pure coincidence yesterday.




Sorry for the double post, this browser my phone has sucks majorly.

I meant dashing in the opposite direction past the initial frames of the dash. You're right, it is how dash dancing works, but if you wait too long then inputting a dash in the opposite direction results in a skid.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Are airdodge animation/invincibility frames more-or-less universal? I noticed that Bowser Jr.'s U-Air animation is slightly shorter than a Bowser Jr. airdodge (in terms of IASA, at least). Just looking for some confirmation before I go nuts with the trapping.

The character boards' frame data threads say that Villager and Little Mac airdodges last 30 frames, with Villager's invincibility ending on Frame 19 and Mac's ending on 23.