Me no likey Captain Falon...y

[Bullfrog]

Especially if the can short hop knee or short hop spike. And to me it seems there's nothing I can do if they get me in the air. Any advice?

 

[DokturSea]

Don't let them get you in the air. You see, the loveliest thing about Yoshi is he's so anti-juggling. If they hit you into the air for a combo, the best thing to do is Down B. As for the short-hop knee, I don't know. That's a deadly attack, it is.

 

[Shiri]

I play against Falcon a little bit and I feel your pain.

Falcon is so annoying because all he has to do is rush in with a short hop neutral air or forward air or up air and either juggle you to combo, juggle you to K.O., or run away and start over. You can't really wavedash back unless Falcon is very poor at spacing his knee. His up and neutral aerials will hit you whether you wavedash back or not. What I like to do if Falcon is predictable with his attacks is to wavedash IN when he's setting up for a short hop aerial and up smash him out of whatever he's planning.

It works a fair bit, but Falcon is always about being unpredictable since he's incredibly easy to gank once you've figured out his game plan, so don't keep waiting for him to screw up since Yoshi's lag makes you extremely vulnerable. That's how you can alleviate the short hop aerial problem, though.

 

[FireBomb]

Please...try not to go against Falcon again anytime soon. I don't wanna see you get dismantled again.

But if you find youself in that situation, then maybe you oughta take to the sky. The ones I saw go insane with their dash dancing short hopping and wavedashing. Maybe if you used more ariels they would have a little harder time. But the knee is always something to watch for. If you're on the ground, try not to stand directly next to him for too long without doing anything.

 

[Mind Trick]

bair and dtilt are your friends here i noticed fighting a falcon. the bair really helps stopping his aerials and since his recovery is not very good a dtilt at the edge and a fair or dair to interupt his recovery can help kill him very early.

 

[Shiri]

Lesson learned.

Don't wavedash back against Falcon. That is all.

 

[Bullfrog]

I play against Falcon a little bit and I feel your pain.

Falcon is so annoying because all he has to do is rush in with a short hop neutral air or forward air or up air and either juggle you to combo, juggle you to K.O., or run away and start over. You can't really wavedash back unless Falcon is very poor at spacing his knee. His up and neutral aerials will hit you whether you wavedash back or not. What I like to do if Falcon is predictable with his attacks is to wavedash IN when he's setting up for a short hop aerial and up smash him out of whatever he's planning.

It works a fair bit, but Falcon is always about being unpredictable since he's incredibly easy to gank once you've figured out his game plan, so don't keep waiting for him to screw up since Yoshi's lag makes you extremely vulnerable. That's how you can alleviate the short hop aerial problem, though.

Did you follow your own advice? >_>

 

[rmusgrave]

Why can't you wavedash backwards while facing Falcon? Surely what can't be achieved by wavedashing backwards can be achieved by dashing towards him if he spaces things past you.

*Is confused*

 

[Shiri]

LOL Bullfrog, you're too good. **high five**

Bringer, I just got my clock cleaned by my roommate and I kept falling for the dumbest ****. Mainly wavedashing back into knees that clearly would have missed even if I ducked under them. Sooooooo embarrassing. >_<;

Yeah, taking my own advice would probably be good. >_____>;

 

[park5150]

yo, I love capt. his taunt so great, but yoshi's taunt is even better...but to play him is so gay! I like to spam eggs on him sopmetimes though.

*yoshi*

 

[Bombco101]

if they get me in the air I just use a C-down, it normally works.
................................................. ................................................. ................................................. ................................................. ................................................. ................................................. ................................................. ................................................. ................................................. ................................................. ................................................. .................................................Falcon's a nudge

 

[technomancer]

Falcon's weakness in this matchup is getting edgeguarded by Yoshi. Also, one downthrow can lead to Fumi-style 60%.

Also, priorty. CF has none, and if he's being a SHFFL ho, get him in a tight spot and upsmash him in the face for a sexy combo. Your sex-kick can beat most stuff on it's come-out, esp if you hit him in the face with it. Also, learn RDjC n-air jukes, Falcon hates when people follow up his attacks with an attack.

That's all I got. This matchup is heavily in Falcon's favor, and if you shield, he's probably gonna get a grab off, which is deadly. If you approach, it's n-air time. He can also chain all of his aerials on Yoshi like nobody's business, and he's way fast, so you have to play your aboslute best and throw him off his game. I use Yoshi as my training mode combo buddy when I'm not practicing my SHFFL, because it's so easy and it makes me feel so good to chain 3-4 n-airs into a knee.

 

[Mind Trick]

a combo that works fairly well is a well timed bair to a djc uair to utilt/upsmash/egg/djc uair fumi style. also i dont see why you shouldt wd back. if you can predict a little when hes going to get ya a simpel wavesmash can do the jump. also double dtilt off the edge if you can get it

 

[FireBomb]

You got better with Falcon, though... See, to defeat the enemy, you must become your enemy. You beat them with Yoshi easliy-er now.

 

[technomancer]

One of the reasons why you shouldn't WD back is because hit hitboxes drag on for miles. For instance, a dash-jumped stomp, if not perfectly SHFFL'd, flies across the space of a whole Yoshi before the attack ends. N-air, well, you can go from end to end, and it's pretty easy to modify your fastfall to extend the distance and get the hits in.

You should, however, CC into ftilt or dtilt, and SHFFL so you land behind him. Also, combos; being able to combo Falcon is verrrrrah important, because you don't want to have to force repeated weak hits when he can just chain 3 aerials for 40% or more.

Ooh yeah, if you have to shield, mix up regular shield and lightshied, and this will allow you time to juke his grabs more easily.

 

[Metà]

One of the advantages Yoshi (along with d*mn near the entire cast) is that he can edgeguard Falcon very easily. That's realy all I have to say; you can be creative with how you kill him, but his recovery is so freaking easy to destroy.

 

[Bullfrog]

dtilt->dtilt->instant edgehog FTW. >_>

 

[cavesonic13]

I know how that feel...I learned....crouch cancel everything he does....to stay on the ground

 

[Deleted member]

I love fighting C falcon. Such a fun matchup! But hard! Very hard. I like to lightshield his nair and dair approaches, to stop his ineveitable grab. At lwo percents u can utilt juggle to get him to a=round mid percents. At mid pecents, u can utilt him to start an uair juggle, and its pretty easy. If he DIs right, DJC uair but go to the right. If he DIs left, same thing. I feel really good about myself when i combo falcon from 0 to death (which almost never happens, cuz they usually kill me first,or they DI maybe up to screw my timing). To edgeguard...ummm i dunno. Dtilt,instant edgehog, , RECE or ECE, dsmash, edgecanceled down b, errr there are so many options, just dont hit falcon high cuz he can use his down b to regain his jumps.

 

[Seanson]

it should be easy to tell if a down tilt will do the job edgeguarding, or if you need to just instant edgehog.

i find running forward and doing up tilts are good ways to start combos

 

[abit_rusty]

Yoshi's down tilt really screws up CF's recovery from below. To the point where it's pretty much hopeless for a CF to attempt an up+b from under unless the yoshi player is asleep -.-

edit: come to think of it, his down tilt can also ruin my rhythm/flow with falcon. So CC and spam it!

 

[bigman40]

spam the CC, dtilt some of falcon's moves can't hit you. also, when he's in the air watch his movements you can dodge their atks if you WD the opposite way. And the last thing is side dodge if he tries to grab you and juggle him for the combo to finisher. missed grabs = openings for combos

 

[Eltrotraw]

Well, since CF is a fastfaller, first and foremost dtilt and dsmash should be utilized against him.

I wouldn't say "go to the air" against him, but don't exactly stay on the ground. Keep mobile and mix it up. I believe the knee sweetspot hitbox stretches to a little bit above Falcon too, so it's better to stay below him.

In general, mix up your approach. Keep him confused and mindgame him. I can't come up with more specific responses if I can't see you play.

EDIT: Oh right. Falcon's recovery sucks as well. It should be really easy to edgeguard him... most of the time.

 

[rmusgrave]

If the Falcon you play against doesn't tech the d-tilt edgeguard, teach him to do so. Otherwise, you will be getting a false impression of the strength of Falcon's recovery.

 

[Deleted member]

If the Falcon you play against doesn't tech the d-tilt edgeguard, teach him to do so. Otherwise, you will be getting a false impression of the strength of Falcon's recovery.

Cant u jsut egg him after he techs the dtilt, then...i dunno, maybe dsmash?

 

[bigman40]

not really cause if you egg him then he's likely to pop up into the air, but maybe a usmash could work. i never really tried it, but someone might correct me.

 

[Deleted member]

not really cause if you egg him then he's likely to pop up into the air, but maybe a usmash could work. i never really tried it, but someone might correct me.

Nah, if he edgetechs, then he will be outta range of usmash. Once he edgetechs, i dont think u can really edgegaurd him cuz of his height, so egging is pretty much all u can do, as far as i know.

 

[rmusgrave]

If he edge techs without doing a 'jump edge tech' then he will be right next to the edge. The fast Falcon will just edgetech on the spot then up-b your face before the d-tilt lag is finished.

 

[Deleted member]

If he edge techs without doing a 'jump edge tech' then he will be right next to the edge. The fast Falcon will just edgetech on the spot then up-b your face before the d-tilt lag is finished.

I see *slowly goes insane* Then how do we edgeguard a falcon! Dair? Fair?
Edgehog->suicide?

 

[rmusgrave]

Force him to go above the edge by edgehogging him. He cannot walltech above the edge. His landing animation gives you extra time to charge your downsmash too, even if it does give him his double jump back.

 

[Lordydennek]

Ok gonna repost what i posted earlier. basically to consolidate ****. Shiri, sorry i didnt see the matchup thread...im blind. I just read what was in the guide.

Yo. I really want to explore this match up a bit more. the guide doesnt really say too much. The worst thing about this fight to me, is the knee. it loves to steal the dj and destroys yoshi with its trajectory. So im gonna throw out some things and you guys should tell me whats best.

1)options to stop a cfalcon
a)Tilt wise- the dtilt is dangerous in this match unless you're shield pressuring or edge guarding. Youll get stomped if you cc and dtilit too much like we yoshis do. The utilt however has uses. do you guys know if it has enough priority to stop a knee/nair approach? I have seen it happen sometimes and sometimes not. The ftilt is amazing in this fight and i think it stops his aerials well when tilted up.
b) Aerial wise- The nair will either tie or stop everything he has besides the bair and uair(Cfalcs uair has crazy priority) but you have to come in from the top or bottom against CFs nair. against the knee tho you will most likely tie unless you catch him in the startup lag. YOU DO NOT WANT TO TIE WITH THE KNEE. if you can djcc his knee with a nair then good for you. Yoshis dair will get uaired thru and his bair will usually lose to any of cfs moves. BUT the bair is the best option to start a combo. the best time to do it is right after he aerials or misses a grab. so be wise with the bair. the uair will beat anything he got (cept a well timed stomp?) so if you can get under his air approach and uair you can begin a combo there. the fair is only semi useful in this match. cfs nair/knee will destroy it every time so be careful. you can tech chase and and punish his missed stomp with this if you time well. but mostly i would avoid approaching with it.
c)Eggs- on stage are not effective unless he's in a combo. CF is too fast and can avoid the eggs with relative ease. Offstage and ECE are not bad here if youre sure of youre own safety.
d)offstage- when falcon goes offstage he shouldnt get back. You can jump out and nair/fair/bair him if he doesnt expect it. or just play it safe and dsmash or dtilt on the edge.
e) Smash moves-when trying to place smashes against CF you have to be real careful. if you miss you will get grabbed and then kneed and youll die. If he is above you on a platform its USUALLY safe to usmash. it will either go thru or tie with his stomp. clashing with his stomp is fine here bcuz you can recover quickly and the platform protects you from above. The usmash can also be thrown into combos quite well agianst cf. Yoshis fsmash is a little harder to place. the best way to do this is to WD/dash(if you have time, bcuz of cfs speed its hard to do this) backwards and then immediately fsmash. the pullback will act as a spotdodge and you can catch him in his aerial lag. do this sparingly. if the cf catches on to this he'll dj and wait out the smash then drop a knee on your face. The dsmash is yoshi most effective and most dangerous smash to use. when CF gets hit by this and mid/high percentages he will go flying offstage in his death angle(towards lower corners) and you can follow up with an easy edge guard. the problem is that if you miss, you will pay for it with, you guessed it, a knee. so use this ONLY when you are sure of a hit. a neat trick i like to do is making my bair go thru cf so i land behind him and then dsmash. it will work most of the time with low risk of punishment. you can also dtilt here as well.
f) grabs-dont bother. Falcons rarely stay on the ground and trying to get him after an aerial 99% of the time you'll miss and and get...kneed. YOU CANNOT SHIELD GRAB FALCON EVER. unless the player sucks. so dont bother.
g)recovering against cf-getting back onstage will be rough. his knee loves to crack that super armor. if you can i would avoid recovering from below. the stomp wil get you. the safest way is from really high. when you can mix in the downb and airdodge more effectively. if youre on the edge avoid the jump recovery. stick with rolling on or hitting him with a b recovery. the ece can work here just be sure to time well.

Ok that bout sums it up for me. The things i REALLLLLLLY want to explore are the tilts vs. his aerials. if yoshi can break his aerial approach with his tilts consistently i feel like this match can be more easily won. So give me some feedback Yoshi playaz(especially on the tilts)

 

[-Sinister-]

lordy, i think i have a solution to playing against CF:

use a better character.
just playin.

Spoiler

not really

 

[Lordydennek]

lordy, i think i have a solution to playing against CF:

use a better character.
just playin.

Spoiler

not really

be careful sinister. youre a long way from home...and we dont take kindly to those who insult yoshi.

 

[-Sinister-]

oh btw shouldn't you change that sheik icon to yoshi? i mean you said yesterday sheik sucks and you're done with her lol.

edit: also what i said (use a better character) was just a tip. it's pretty much a fact that yoshi is one of the worst characters in the game. if you yoshi players can't accept that, then whatever.

 

[Lordydennek]

lol tis true i forgot about that. are you gonna change urs to sheik since you said GAW sucks and youre done with him lol.

 

[-Sinister-]

lol tis true i forgot about that. are you gonna change urs to sheik since you said GAW sucks and youre done with him lol.

? i never said i'm done with g&w. i might've said he sucks, but i like playing as him sometimes. you on the other hand said you were DONE with sheik. she's the worst character in the game remember lol

edit: i instead changed it to my new main. lol

 

[Lordydennek]

? i never said i'm done with g&w. i might've said he sucks, but i like playing as him sometimes. you on the other hand said you were DONE with sheik. she's the worst character in the game remember lol

edit: i instead changed it to my new main. lol

Lol main fail.

 

[DstyCube]

Please stop using the thread in lieu of PMs.

My thoughts on this matchup:

• Falcon has much more control over the match in this matchup. This match goes down hill when he gains momentum, don't let him get it!
• Spacing is very important in this matchup:
  
  Stay out of grab range.
  Don't give him room to charge in with an aerial.
  Stay on him, try to keep the pressure high. Tilts, jabs and quick/well spaced djc nairs are important.​
• Try to avoid challenging aerials. Neutral-b can be very useful in this matchup, but again I would stick to keeping this match grounded.
• D-air > his up-b recovery (don't challenge with other moves, they'll probably lose and you'll just give him more time to recover.
• Try to pop him up in the air: u-tilt, f-tilt, u-air and eggs. These moves will open up many combos. Look for openings to get him off stage.

On stage:
Stay grounded and get below him. Get him off the ledge.

Recovering:
High is safe.

Grabbing:
It's not so much that you can't get them off, but I don't think it leads to much in this matchup that it's worth it.

I find this to be one of my harder match ups because I find my spacing mediocre and I'm not fast enough to keep up with falcon. Anyone got any specific situations to be looking for? How should you DI the moves? I just try DI everything up (and away from the combos.)

 

[Lordydennek]

The thing i was really trying to get at was yoshis tilts vs. cfalcs aerials. does anyone know exactly how those compare? I know with sheik that she can place a well timed ftilt thru his nair and knee.

 

[Shiri]

I think Yoshi's forward tilt ties with the neutral air, but it's stupid rare.

I think it's best to kinda get in and under Falcon and up tilt him before he can get something out, honestly. It's not even worth trading against this character anymore.

P.S. - Yeah, take your junk to PMs before I start facerolling my infraction button, please. :D