Matchup Re-Discussion (2010 edition): Pit

[KayLo!]

Zelda vs. Pit
( Link to central matchup thread. )

Resources for discussion:

Current MU Ratio (subject to change after discussion): 45:55 in Pit's favor

Our Original Matchup Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=250543
Their Matchup Opinion/Thread: None.

Zelda Frame Data: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=290399
Pit Frame Data: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=268872

Summary:

None yet, discussion in progress.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I have limited exp in this MU but I know that it is kinda dumb.

 

[Kisamealex3]

I have limited knowledge of this matchup so I will be speaking on theoretical situations and my experiences with the few pits I play.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

definitely not a bad matchup. His arrows are really annoying, and his up-air sucks when you get stuck above it.

Unfortunately for him, he'll normally be using his Fsmash to rack up damage due to his relatively poor range, so he's going to be rather limited when it comes to landing a killing blow.

If he doesn't edgeguard you for a kill, nothing besides his B-air is going to kill you at a respectable damage.



He's going to camp like a biotch so, if he takes you to a camper-friendly stage, he's got a small, but very noticable advantage. Otherwise the matchup is actually really close.

I find the matchup to be slightly in zelda's favor if the stage is small enough to stop pit from camping well.





I hate playing against pit because his PLAYSTYLE is retarted, but the matchup itself isnt a bad one. Very winable.






If pressed for a ratio I'd say that, on the whole, it's not in zelda's favor, but it's really only barely in pits (overall). So something like 55:45 [seems right.
Really, though, anything between 50:50 and 60:40 is fair enough. You just need to get the point across: Winable matchup, but not a freebie.

 

[KayLo!]

Pit pops out of usmash. It's irritating. ;-;

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Pit pops out of usmash. It's irritating. ;-;

I never have that happen. He's too tall to pop out the bottom isn't he? And if he's popping out the top, doesn't that normally put them in the right place for a chained 2ndUsmash?

 

[KayLo!]

He pops out the top. It happens pretty frequently to me.... I have a crewmate who plays Pit, and I've played Smurf's a few times (including a few friendlies at the last DSO).

Idk, him and Marth never seem to stay in for the whole usmash.

 

[Kisamealex3]

He pops out the top. It happens pretty frequently to me.... I have a crewmate who plays Pit, and I've played Smurf's a few times (including a few friendlies at the last DSO).

Idk, him and Marth never seem to stay in for the whole usmash.

I'm a witness to the Marth thing but every Pit I play stays in there...

I'll play test like 1,000 matches with NAKAT and Pwii's Pits. Coincidentally, they have both used Pit as their secondaries before haha .

 

[GodAtHand]

It's happened to me before too (the pop out of upsmash) but nowhere near as frequently as Marth does, and it doesn't seem like something the Pit's can force to happen.

 

[Meru.]

They most likely wont pop out the 2nd time anyway, since by then it's harder to get out and all.

 

[Kisamealex3]

Do any of Pit's aerials beat Din's Fire's large blasts (like the 14 and 16 percent ones)?

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

hey guys. im a pit main with some experiance in this MU. for one thing no ^^ but he can just mirror or airdodge. not to say that din's won't hit through the mirror which it can. or just read the air dodge if thats how they play. don't try to out camp pit instead bait him into approaching.
for referance, i can smash di up and hit up and jump out of zelda's u-smash 40% of the time because the timing (once known) is simple. as her hand goes up smash those sticks and jump. really hard to do without some practice so don't expect most other pits to know how to DI it proper. ur guys up close game with those D-tilts and D-smashes and grabs. plus im more afraid of zelda's u-tilt than snakes for killing. i know snake's range fine but your u-tilt has = power i swear to god. and it seems easy for FOOT to combo into out of D-tilt and other stuff. got any questions?

 

[Kuro~]

definitely not a bad matchup. His arrows are really annoying, and his up-air sucks when you get stuck above it.

Unfortunately for him, he'll normally be using his Fsmash to rack up damage due to his relatively poor range, so he's going to be rather limited when it comes to landing a killing blow.

If he doesn't edgeguard you for a kill, nothing besides his B-air is going to kill you at a respectable damage.



He's going to camp like a biotch so, if he takes you to a camper-friendly stage, he's got a small, but very noticable advantage. Otherwise the matchup is actually really close.

I find the matchup to be slightly in zelda's favor if the stage is small enough to stop pit from camping well.





I hate playing against pit because his PLAYSTYLE is retarted, but the matchup itself isnt a bad one. Very winable.






If pressed for a ratio I'd say that, on the whole, it's not in zelda's favor, but it's really only barely in pits (overall). So something like 55:45 [seems right.
Really, though, anything between 50:50 and 60:40 is fair enough. You just need to get the point across: Winable matchup, but not a freebie.

if the pits are fsmashing u that much their doing it wrong...thats all i have to say. Fsmash should and always be saved FOR THE KILL. it really is his best kill move when u account reliability and %. bair isnt as reliable cuz its harder to land w/o a good read. Definitely not in zelda's favor. ever. besides the fact that usmash will kill early if the pit cant SDI out. it is winnable from teh ppl ive fought.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Just saying, Pit's Fsmash is definitely not a reliable kill move. It's so easy to predict and block, and easy to punish after. Back air is a much better kill move, especially against Zelda.

 

[GodAtHand]

Zelda is also floaty enough to DI out of his forward smash. Once the first part hits you just smash DI up and away. Try not to just get hit by the second part or else you are screwed lol. I have also been able to DI out of the first hit of Fsmash before and then time it right so I can LK him after the second hit whiffs during the cool-down.

I don't know if it is guaranteed but looking at the frame data it seems possible, I Did that to Earth at APEX and he seemed pretty impressed. ^_^

 

[Fuujin]

How does Zelda deal with a ledge camping Pit?

 

[GodAtHand]

You can always just go for a spike, if you hit him at any percent with it he dies. And even if you don't it reminds him that you have it which will probably stop him from doing it once you get close. If he tries to fly under the stage you can aim Din's carefully and hit him, it gets big enough toward the end to hit through the bottom of most stages.

Basically just work your way over to him and make him pay. You'll probably (almost definitely against a good Pit) Take some damage on the way over, but just try to deal just as much back to him once you make it over.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

You can always just go for a spike, if you hit him at any percent with it he dies. And even if you don't it reminds him that you have it which will probably stop him from doing it once you get close. If he tries to fly under the stage you can aim Din's carefully and hit him, it gets big enough toward the end to hit through the bottom of most stages.

Basically just work your way over to him and make him pay. You'll probably (almost definitely against a good Pit) Take some damage on the way over, but just try to deal just as much back to him once you make it over.

Zelda's Dtilt can spike too. So many people forget that. And, while it won't likely kill pit, it can put him in an AWFUL position.







Oh and, BTW, Din's is basically amazing if pit ever is put in a position to require the use of his Up+B

 

[Kisamealex3]

Oh and, BTW, Din's is basically amazing if pit ever is put in a position to require the use of his Up+B

Another thing I do is if I see Pit (or any char that can glide) glide at me, Din's puts them in a bad situation. If they don't react fast enough, it's just a free Din's...which is always good.

 

[Fluttershy]

For pits up smash could we use Farore's Wind to cancel it then use a V smash

 

[KayLo!]

For pits up smash could we use Farore's Wind to cancel it then use a V smash

Wait.

What?

 

[Fluttershy]

sometimes when i'm above the opponent i use Farore's Wind to land on them to both avoid their attack (or cancel it) and hit them.

 

[-Mars-]

That is a fantastic strategy. I'm going to start doing that. Thanks.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

That is a fantastic strategy. I'm going to start doing that. Thanks.

LoL, take it easy on the kid ^_^.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

For pits up smash could we use Farore's Wind to cancel it then use a V smash

Now by this, are you saying we can use FW's initial hitbox to clash with his Usmash and the Dsmash him before he hits us again?

If this is what you mean, I think we're in frame disadvantage if we use FW to clash most to any attack.

 

[Fluttershy]

I don't know if it will be able to hit pit's up smash but i know that it will hit (clash) other characters. and i'm not sure if zelda would be able to hit first. i'll try it if my wii and brawl are willing to cooperate with me.

 

[Kisamealex3]

That is a fantastic strategy. I'm going to start doing that. Thanks.

Lol

10charthing

 

[KayLo!]

Maybe we should move on to more useful, not so situational strategies.......

 

[Fluttershy]

I'll still try it if i am able to do it i'll edit one of my posts for those who are interested (if any)

EDIT: i was able to try it today but i was only able to cancel it still might work though there wasn't that many oppertunities to do it before it went off. but i was able to do it with his U-tilt and i hit him with the V smash. it just depend on where zelda and pit land after the clash

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Maybe we should move on to more useful, not so situational strategies.......

Punishing missed FSmashes from pit with dash attack is always a nice strategy.

it pops him right above Zelda. A position which is perilous for 90% of the cast of brawl.

 

[Fuujin]

Punishing missed FSmashes from pit with dash attack is always a nice strategy.

it pops him right above Zelda. A position which is perilous for 90% of the cast of brawl.

We talking about dash attack or D tilt?
He'd have to be at hella low percents to go right above her.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

We talking about dash attack or D tilt?
He'd have to be at hella low percents to go right above her.

He shouldn't be living until high percents against zelda. So, yes, RIGHT above her at very low percents, and still above her at moderately low percents.

if he's at a high percent you might be able to fsmash him instead of dash atack.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

can dthrow> Bair work on pit at low percents? (like 0-20)

just wondering.

 

[AyatoK26]

can dthrow> Bair work on pit at low percents? (like 0-20)

just wondering.

If he doesn't DI the throw, it works since he's of average size. But most ppl would DI away.

 

[AyatoK26]

Do we have anything Oos to punish a shielded glide attack from Pit? To me, it looks like he has no lag upon execution, like MK.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Do we have anything Oos to punish a shielded glide attack from Pit? To me, it looks like he has no lag upon execution, like MK.

then can't we just run in and Usmash it like MKs?

 

[#HBC | Scary]

First time I really got to play this MU extensively.

Pit's arrows are pretty lame, and it's only because he can change up the timing. If they stay unpredictable with it, it's super obnoxious. Our Fair for sure can beat an arrow so I'm guessing so can Bair and Dair.

At early damage, Fthrow can combo into Fsmash and his Utilt is also annoying since it comes out on either frame 1 or 2. Gimps aside, we should be able to live fairly long (140s at worst). Like in most of our MUs, being above Pit sucks, and he can keep pressure on us really well with his projectiles and his Uair. Luckily for us, our Dair goes right through his Uair as long as it's the center of his Uair. If it's the blades of his swords, then it's a toss up. Sometimes we win, and sometimes, not so much. That will help us if he decides to plank and do it wrong. If he puts Uair in the wrong place, we will spike him something awful. His Bair is really the only move that'll definitely kill us before 120 since Fsmash will likely be used to rack damage, but it'll be a little telegraphed so avoiding for the most part; however the soft hitbox of Bair is pretty good for gimping and has some surprising range. Likely that he'll be using his WoI (His ^B) on stage as a mixup to accelerate his movement and try to catch you off guard with aerials, usually Fair or Bair when fishing for a kill. Their Dair, I think, can be used as an OoS option because it comes out fast. That also has really good range. Lastly, their jab is the bane of my existence. I hate it. We can outrange it with Fsmash and DA but it's still so lame.

All that said, we can keep Pit away with Fsmash and if we can corner him, we demolish him with Dtilt. Like....really bad. The MU is really all about patience and how you deal with camping. Not really anything gamebreaking in the MU so play smart and careful.

45-55 imo.

 

[Meru.]

His Utilt is frame 2 but it has almost no range. Actually, Pit doesn't have much range altogether, which is the main reason avoiding his kill moves is somewhat easy. Abuse every sparkle you have.

 

[KayLo!]

Their Dair, I think, can be used as an OoS option because it comes out fast. That also has really good range.

His dair's not fast, but it's fast enough to punish Zelda.

 

[MrEh]

OoS DTILT can punish Zelda.

Seriously.