Match-up rediscussion: Sheik

[Meru.]

It's time for another female character, and one of our ex-rivals we used to play a lot: give it up for Sheik!

So let's re-rediscuss ;D. But first, tha rules (copyright of Rickerdy-doo-da-day):

As the number of characters left to discuss in the Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion thread begins to dwindle, I've have decided to start up topics for rediscussing characters who I feel may need to be covered again. This is primarily due to potential changes in the match up, new discoveries, new tactics and how they may have affected the match up. Also, for some characters, because they were discussed a long time ago, they may be out of date

Now because I can't trust some of you on this board, I'm going to copy/paste these rules on all of these rediscussion threads:

-SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS WITH EXAMPLES/EVIDENCE/THOUGHT/VIDEO. Do not say "Snake beats Peach" or "Peach owns Wolf" or something out of the blue without explaining why, you are just wasting thread space. Keep intelligent discussion.

-We are here to learn, not fight. We're all trying to become better Peach players, so please don't get into over heated discussions - learn and be reasonable.

-This thread serves two purposes. A) To determine how the matchup goes for Peach. B) To determine how to handle the matchup. So not only post why you think it goes (see guideline below), but post strategies and what you do that works.

-Feel free to add really good tactics you discover of a character already discussed. New tactics are helpful and don't think just because its already been discussed not to add anything, or we will never get better information on the matchup as the meta game progresses!

- PLEASE let me know if you want me to highlight anything from the thread discussion into that respective character's "summary" on this page. I'm not always sure whats the best advice and whats not so help point it out to me for me to highlight

- Attempting to ridicule someone to prove your point will not be tolerated. It disgusts me when people try to do this. If someone struggles with something and you don't or if someone thinks the match up is such and such because of this and you think 'well you can do this and this, why are they saying that?' for the love of god, explain to them your viewpoint. Insults such as 'well your air game must suck if you find this hard' are pathetic, childish and I will mostly likely disregard whatever else you have to say

I wish I didn't have to feel the need to do this as it clusters up the OP of each of these topics and someones going to have a cry about me putting this but sadly, I can't trust some of you. I don't care about personal feuds or the like. Keep the discussion match up related ok?

Sheik

The flow of time is always cruel...​

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[Corrupted]

http://www.youtube.com/user/AnkokuSmash#p/search/9/3En57WbOyhQ

These guys know what they're doing in this match-up.
I don't play too many shieks but Peaches' float eliminates the threat of her needles catching you on your 2/4 frames normal landing lag. Recovering can be annoying though.

 

[hova]

i am not at all a fan of this match up

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

I find this match up one of my favorites. I say this match up is 60:40 Peach's favor. There are a lot of things Peach does that Just tells sheik no. She gets chain grabbed, I feel that its easy to grab her, our air attacks especially Nair and bair beat a lot of her moves and she can be gimped by turnips. I feel that peach can also camp harder which i don't think is necessary. I feel that if Peach isn't just floating to much and isn't getting hit by upsmash then it shouldn't be to hard. No sheiks Ive met like playing against peach.... Well here in Florida anyway...

 

[White-Peach]

I feel like sheik in brawl is a weaker, less-effective form of ZSS (at least if you're using Peach.) Idk, I just find Sheik ineffective :|

That being said, I like to play my Sheik vs Peach because it's a long game of hit and run. Throw needles, get jabs in for grabs or jab combos, and juggle peach with UAir if you can get underneath her. Sheik can't really stay on her unless it is for juggling, because Peach will always break out before that next hit.

Sheik gets punished hard for mistakes, whereas Peach might take a hit that puts her in a position to challenge Sheik, where she wins out on damage. They both have problems killing, but Peach gets % faster and has a safer recovery, and can gimp pretty decently in this matchup (turnip sniper :D)

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Lang Zi says: The character once weaker now has the leg up, oh how the tables have turned.

What I mean is that unlike in Melee, Peach has a small advantage in this matchup. Both have killing issues and will kill each other around the same time. Peach has the chain grab and has ways to nair or bair out of Sheik's jab combos unlike lots of characters. Peach also has slightly more range. Lots of trading hits will be done, but I think Peach's priority makes it just enough on Sheik to have small but significant advantage here.

 

[Airgemini]

Where are the Sheiks at?

 

[EdreesesPieces]

What sheiks? Actually let's bring Ankoku here. I believe he considers it either even or slight peach advantage, recalling from memory of his BBR posts.

 

[Meru.]

It seems this rediscussion is quite dead. I blame the Sheiks o.o. Anyway, if it won't become alive, we''ll just rediscuss it another time. I've posted it twice already, so they should know we're 'discussing' them.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

uh here are some vids I guess? these are old but i play the matchup exactly like this still and so does champ haha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSu3I7YkOAc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcM-XGCEy_s&feature=related

The major difference however is now he realized not to use his jab combo - instead, two ftilts to up tilt to a nair works and i can't mash nair out of it, I don't think.

 

[DanGR]

From the Sheik player's point of view, it feels like I'm fighting Luigi but without n-air and shoryuken.

Peach is a slow wall, which you just gotta run away and zone correctly against, watching out for forward air and the occasional dash attack. I pretty much try to do the same thing against Luigi with Sheik, and against Peach with Oli.

In a nutshell: run away, run away, run away, FORWARD AIR, run away, throw needles, run away... basically. >.>

I don't have too much experience in the matchup though. Feels evenish or maybe slightly in Peach's favor, I think.

 

[Meru.]

Peach is a slow wall,

No no no no no.... Peach definitely isn't slow, and that's something that Sheik doesn't like at all. Not only can she, just like you said, wall Sheik pretty well with her speed, but she can also pressure Sheik very badly. Granted, Sheik can also put some pressure on her, but I feel that Peach wins in pressuring. Sheik is faster in mobility (and she should use that to her advantage imo), but Peach's mobility definitely isn't a big problem in this match-up imo.

Anyway, some things vs Sheik:
DACUS and Needles are exremely annoying, watch out for those! Even though we can Nair her Ftilt, you should still avoid it because it may set up for other combos. Against Sheik that like to abuse their movement speed too much, turnips should do the job.

I agree with 6-4 Peach.

 

[DanGR]

9th worst running speed.
10th worst walking speed.
14th worst air speed.
6th worst fall speed.
Floating isn't quick by any means.

That's what I meant by "slow".

What do you mean by speed?

Peach does have pretty awesome maneuverability in the tight spaces she's limited to, though- 3rd (iirc) best aerial manuverability (changing directions midair) + float is great, and a really great dash as well. If you can get in close then she has the tools to do a lot of damage. I think it's getting there and staying there that's the problem.

 

[White-Peach]

I think he means attack speed x) The only real kind of speed Peach has :3 You already established it as part of her wall---she might not get to her opponent quickly, when she's in she's a machine :D Fast startup/low lag, good damage, great priority, good stun, low knockback all combine to make her a damage-racking machine :D

 

[Meru.]

I did mean attack speed indeed and thus, she is definitely not slow in walling, and so, she is not a slow wall.

 

[White-Peach]

You're mister languages! If the wall moves slowly, it is a slow wall. Think Peach vs Falco. She can take that chicken dinner when it goes head to head, but getting to him is difficult because she cant make it OVER TO HIM. She's too slow, and his lasers and phantasm let him escape side to side easily. Her fast attacks make up the wall, but have no relation to how fast the wall itself moves. The wall is basically her realm of priority, within a small space around her she is very fast and can wreck face, but moving herself (and thus, that small space) is a slow process compared to other characters. She's like a sledgehammer. Slow with poor range, but effective when you can hit something. Really effective :3

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Peach is definitely slow, lol. Why do you think it's so hard to recovery versus metaknight? her moves come out fast yes, but that doesn't help her against hit and run attacks.