Match-up rediscussion: Olimar

[#HBC | ZoZo]

So our match-ups are pretty dead, so I guess we can make this work, I'll make another thread for the pikachu rediscussion because theres no reason NOT to discuss multiple characters.

I think olimar is a pretty cool guy. Eh throws pikminz and doesn't afraid of anything.

/discuss


Also, be sure to join their discussion!
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172222&page=116

 

[Hawks go Caw]

How to DI Olimar's Dthrow?

 

[Jon?]

@Hawks: I don't think you can if you are at very low percentages. I believe Olimar has a true combo on spacies and heavy characters.

Grab>Dthrow>Usmash>Fair. I believe that's how the combo works.

 

[Notra]

hmm. i nvr have a problem w/ olimars. i mean we have a few buffer cg on them. and once ur away from thefact that the pikman dont exist( PIKMAN INTIMIDATION) then all u see is a big nosed olimar.

his superframe bdown does mess with our bread and butter short hop pew pew to upsmash kill.

but phantasm still ***** and lazers. + we can reflect the pikman. just stay away from the smash / grab range. and if u get close up aaa all day.

and lol. gimp'd easy.. mad easy

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

hmm. i nvr have a problem w/ olimars. i mean we have a few buffer cg on them. and once ur away from thefact that the pikman dont exist( PIKMAN INTIMIDATION) then all u see is a big nosed olimar.

his superframe bdown does mess with our bread and butter short hop pew pew to upsmash kill.

but phantasm still ***** and lazers. + we can reflect the pikman. just stay away from the smash / grab range. and if u get close up aaa all day.

and lol. gimp'd easy.. mad easy

We have a buffered CG on him? That's quite interesting.

I'll make a new CG thread, seeing as our current one is outdated.

 

[Jon?]

Buffered CG is suggested if you want to 100% make the grab on him during CG. If the Olimar doesn't DI away while you do unbuffered grab, you can get the CG off. But if the Olimar DIs away, normal unbuffered grabs won't work.

 

[LuigiRocks14]

As We All Know Falco Is More Faster And More Powerfull Than Olimar

The Only Problem Is : Olimar Is Too Short I Usually Garb Him -___-

 

[Emperor Time]

This MU is gay...

Olimar is...like....IDK. All his moves freakin' look the same, so I never know what he's doing.

Important Moves:
Lazorz
IAP
Nair
Ftilt
Reflctor
JAAAAAAAAAAAAB

Olimar can rack up damage quickly and kill fairly easily. Falco being a lightweight doesn't help us :/
Olimar will grab the **** out of you. Remember how far each Pikmin goes and plan accordingly.
The laser-IAP when he gets close approach works really well here. If you wanna get in his face and and shred some Pikmin while you're at it, NAIR, NAIR, NAIR. I have dubbed the Nair the Pikmin-Desroyer b/c of this. Ftilts use is pretty obvious....and the reflector is pretty good, just don't spam it too hard here.

Olimar will probably ban FD. If(or when) that happens, it would be wise to take him to SV or something.

As most of us know, Olimar has SA frames on his Down-B. Be careful when you're going in for the kill.

When you wanna gimp Oli, you might wanna go a bit farther than normal to ensure an edgehog, or possibly just kill him right there....just watch out for Down B.

I think I'm forgetting something...but, w/e.

Please don't take him to Yoshi's Island....

50-50

 

[Mikha'el]

I say just play defensively. Stay back and laser away. Sorry, thats all i got.

 

[swordsaint]

I agree with the camp game and the post above it. Spamming from a distance and SH phantasming or a quick get away is probably a good idea.

50/50

 

[IrisKong]

I dont think this match up is terrible. Dont be afraid of the pikmin! just get him off the stage and lazer gimp him!!!

 

[AvoiD]

Mikha, I suggest if you can't post more then that, or anything thats more informative, please don't just post to get your count up. >.<

This matchup is way to ghey. I'd say 60-40 Olimar, or 55-45.

Olimar has a crazy game going on. He ***** Falco hard imo.

Olimar kills with:
-FAir
-DAir [Bad DI/Spike/High %]
-All Smashes
-BAir
-Grabs

Falco kills with:
-DAir
-All Smashes
-Laser gimps
-BAir

Falco can CG Olimar, about 3 or 4 times I think. But the same amount of damage in a CG, Olimar could rack up with grabs + aerials. So I'd say that part for even. Pikmin camping will kill Falco. You can reflector all you want, but it leaves you opened because of ending lag, and then comes in an attack/grab.

Short hopped lasers and IAP are very helpful in this match. Changing how you recover helps to. I think all of of Olimars move can beat phantasm besides the tilts. If he's close though, reflector and f-tilt really good in this match. Abuse Jab. Kills pikmin while racking damage, I think, don't flame me if I'm wrong. But still abuse it.

I rarely use jab grab in this match unless I know I can get it as a mindgame. I mix it up plenty though.

Tech chasing for early kills is good in this match as well. Most stuff I've said has been said before though. Again, I don't know this matchup all to well either lul.

 

[Sky Pirate]

A couple of random notes:

1. A lot of Falcos I play drop off the ledge, hop up, and phantasm right into a smash or grab. Hilarious stuff.

2. Trying to outcamp a Falco somewhere like FD seems like a pain in the *** because of the reflector and lasers. I usually try to camp at a mid range and punish the reflector. I take to the air, but some Olimars go under as shown by this hilarious reference footage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS1g3ILZUU8

3. Don't assume that all Olimars are terrible at RC, Japes, and Frigate. Quite often, one will have a preference for at least one of the three.

4. Chaingrab to Dair can be followed by a tether. Olimar is also floaty.

5. You will almost always take a follow-up attack after we down throw, especially at low percentages. It might be another grab, fsmash, shorthopped fair, double-jumped FF'd fair, dash attack, pikmin toss, whatever. That's just the way the world works.

There. Helpful, but not TOO helpful.
This matchup is even, IMO.

 

[clowsui]

LOL what are you guys smoking
Olimar vs. Falco is 50/50 I play this with Hilt all the time
Do you know how much of a pain in the *** Jab is for Olimar? It's a 2 frame high priority jab that can be canceled at close range into anything and can be turned into a whirling pile of Pikmin death
Meanwhile Olimar has absolutely ZERO close range options except jab, ftilt, grab, spotdodge and OOS stuff. Roll too, but you can react to that with Dash Attack. All of those you can beat on reaction iirc.
Lasers are EXTREMELY difficult for Olimar to try and camp past; in general unless the Olimar is like....mid-level+ he won't be able to camp you
If you dash CG you can get him to 40 for a spike...best done on SV/FD
IMO Olimar is one of the weakest to the UAir trap done by Falco simply because not many Olimars use Dair (and once you condition them all you have to do is BAir behind him/in front of him/etc. and mix up, LOL)

However, Olimar has tons of grab options that will **** you for 30% at a time with Pikmin toss + his grab is REALLY far ranged
All of his smashes are ridiculously good at what they do
His juggle traps are strong
His height makes it so that single lasers is the only option when he's simply dashing or walking
Whistle makes it annoying to kill him (but the damage is really all you're looking for on Olimar)
And he's REALLY strong at mid-range (i.e. beyond Falco ftilt range), where Falco is the weakest because EVERYTHING he does can be reacted to given a powershield + longer ranged options

 

[Mikha'el]

Clowsui's right, we are really over thinking this. We can out attack, out speed, and definitely out live an Olimar.

 

[IrisKong]

Clowsui's right, we are really over thinking this. We can out attack, out speed, and definitely out live an Olimar.

...did you read his post? he said its 50/50. I agree.



Since I used to play Olimar before I switched to Falco, I suppose ill give my full opinion rather than just the small parts. although its pretty much going to look like Clowsui's post.

This match is all about punishing mistakes and spacing.

Falcos best ways to kill are Bair, Dair (from CG usually), Fsmash and Usmash (usually boost smash)

Olimars kills are dependant on pikmin the majority of the time unless its at high percents. Blue Bthrow, Purple Uthrow, Purple Usmash and Red Fair are all early kill moves. Regular smashes will kill us as well, especially Dsmash when they sweet spot it.

Olimars jab SUCKS! Falcos is good, and hurts olimar..he gets very sad.

We can CG olimar, but he can CG us as well, chances are whoever gets grabbed first is ending up getting at least 60%. Falco out camps Olimar at far distances (FD is still a good CP if they dont ban Japes)

Olimar can wrack damage like you would not believe, the problem is that people just sit and take it. if you get a red or a blue thrown at you, dont bother using your shine, they will use the ending lag to grab you, just take the damage to get in close and take the advantage. the only pikmin you should really be"trying" to shine are purps and whites.

Olimar does not have a problem killing at all, Falco does...So thats a point for Olimar

The main advantage that we have on Olimar is the advantage everyone has on Olimar...he gets gimped really bad. Once he is off the edge you SHOULD be able to take a stock. Our lazers will seriously mess Olimar up off stage unless they are crazy good with whistle canceling.

Falco can also be gimped. If we are some how unable to phantasm back to the ledge and have to firebird, olimar with Dair spike us and we will loose a stock, so its a very situational match up.

For neutral stages, avoid taking him to levels with platforms, he will use his Uair and wrack damage quick. FD or smashville would be your best bets.

BAN LUIGI'S MANSION! I cant stress this enough, not only is it bad for Falco, but Olimar ***** on this stage.

Take him to Japes if he doesnt ban it, if he does then take him to FD.

As I said, 50/50 match up. dont get grabbed, done walk into the **** (smashes)

 

[Mikha'el]

I did read his post, thats just my personal (bias) opinion.

 

[IrisKong]

I did read his post, thats just my personal (bias) opinion.

Well the match up discussion isnt really a place to be bias, its meant to help the entire community and give the most accurate read outs of character match ups, its hard enough as it is.


Play a good olimar that kills you at 85% and you may see things different.

 

[Mikha'el]

Sorry, dont mean to be annoying. Ill try to contribute.

 

[Fino]

Olimars jab SUCKS! Falcos is good, and hurts olimar..he gets very sad.

Once he is off the edge you SHOULD be able to take a stock. Our lazers will seriously mess Olimar up off stage unless they are crazy good with whistle canceling.

As I said, 50/50 match up. dont get grabbed, done walk into the **** (smashes)

Someone told me to look here for a post saying olimar's jab sucks.... Olimar's jab does 15%
Sure, it's not quite as handy as falcos... but still... i lol'd

I lol'd at your second part too...

But at least you got the numbers right imo ^^;


~Fino

 

[IrisKong]

Someone told me to look here for a post saying olimar's jab sucks.... Olimar's jab does 15%
Sure, it's not quite as handy as falcos... but still... i lol'd

I lol'd at your second part too...

But at least you got the numbers right imo ^^;


~Fino

When I said it sucked I guess I meant its to slow to compete against falco. I know about the damage but I never used it.

and honestly, I have never seen any olimars use it alot, Dtilt is what I usually did.

 

[Weruop]

I think this matchup is 40 60 Falco's favor at top competetive level

 

[AvoiD]

I think this matchup is 40 60 Falco's favor at top competetive level

Didn't you beat DEHF?

Anyways, I agree on 50-50.

EDIT: Actually, I think it's 55-45 Falco's favor. I'll post why later, idr if I already made a post in this thread about it anyway.

 

[Weruop]

yeah but i was just outplaying him and for some reason he wasnt going for grabs enough. at genesis we had a friendly and if ALL falco tried to do at the start of my stocks is grab, the matchup is about 40 60, maybe even 35 65 falcos favor imo

im awaiting an opinion from dehf atm

 

[Weruop]

dehf AGREED WITH me saying that he thinks it is 60 40 falcos favor, possibly 55 45
i guess it sort of evens out with my opinion so id say its about a solid 60 40 falcos favor

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Could you post a summary on the match-up? I'm rather hesitant to listen to somebody not explaining his statements.

 

[Weruop]

yes but its very difficult to describe.
the match starts and olimar begnis camping while falco is air dodging and rolling towards olimar. olimars main attack is nair and camping. pretty much everything else is slow enough to let falco get easy grabs. a missed pivot grab or even a spot dodged smash attack can mean the end of a stock for the olimar main.

assuming the falco doesnt boost pivot grab , its prolly smart for olimar to stay really close to the edge of the stage at low damage where u can survive a d throw to spike.
the olimar needs to be reallllly good at breaking out of grabs in this matchup, as well as not being grabbed. if the falco grabs u, chances are really high that the olimar main loses a stock. its even possible for the falco to spike u so far out from the stage that u cant tech it, and edgehog is all that it takes to finish off the olimar

basically playing very defensive and stealthlike until u get a grab is how the falco will play
and the olimar will be playing super nervous and scared, running away trying to read the falco in order to not get grabbed

that enough?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Olimar is just frustrating to play against. Any an all options Olimar has, Falco can deal with, but if you mess up you'll get punished back. The match is so dependent upon who messes up first. If Falco messes up leads him to being juggled and read to the point of death. The same can almost be said for Olimar as his recovery is so poor.

Falco has the potiential to camp olimar. Reflector can reflect pikmin back at olimar. Lasers mess up his SHs when he tries to throw pikmin. Although, I would only encourage Camping with retreating SHL and when your a far distance away. Pikmin can eat your laser attempts, Olimar can close in on you with a SH and punish you with an attack or his lengthy grab.

Mid range against olimar is a royal pain. Nothing we have can really answer anything Olmiar can do here. Smashes and grabs will beat out anything we try. The only options left are to dodge, jump, shield and roll our way around him.

Once we do get around his defences, it's play in his face and keeping him on the run until he dies. Which Falco can do, but with difficulty.

I'd say the match-up seems like Olimars advantage simply because of the difficulty at times dealing with him, but looking at how Falco can punish olimar just as badly makes me believe this match-up to still be even.

50-50. Neutral.

 

[Weruop]

why would falco try to camp olimar when all u have to do is get off a grab to win from most of the spots on the field?

:?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

why would falco try to camp olimar when all u have to do is get off a grab to win from most of the spots on the field?

:?

Note my beginning sentence of a paragraph I typed. I mentioned the "potiental" for Falco to camp Olimar. It's not always the best method, but it's an option. And the suggestion I proposed was to bring it to peoples attention some things that can happen. Like the pikmin eat lasers. Besides, Olimar is less threatening during his approach, but if Falco approaches Olimar, it's a bit harder to deal with. To approach an Olimar is to walk straight into is greatest asset: a defensive playstyle. So the option to try to force the approach can be seen by some Falcos as a reasonable option to try to make it easier to deal with Olimar.

Plus, focusing on the grab usually means your opponent will recognize what you are trying to do, and always avoid your attempts. And more than likely punish you for it.

 

[Emperor Time]

Forcing the grab leads to screw ups. Screwing up is like GG considering how hard Olimar hits.

 

[Weruop]

at top level of play, from what ive gone up against, most falcos are smart enough to get grabs in and simply take off stocks by playing really smart. anyways ive put in my information and i think its 60-40 falco >.<
peace

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I think 55-45 is the general direction reading through olimar's discussion and this one.

Sounds like we made another 5% difference, woot.