Match-up Export #9: Zero Suit Samus | Complete!!

[Conviction]

What is the problem here......we already decided the 60:40 Fox's adv. and we would rediscuss it if some other evidence suggest otherwise to the current ratio.

 

[Rizk18]

No, I have not.
I have played ones that are decent.
And I've had trouble with them.

And, you're still freaking ******** if you think getting hit by a d-smash is the same as getting grabbed.
I guess you get hit by an Ike smash attack a couple of times every match?

This just means you have zero experience against Fox. I'm not disagreeing that this MU is in Fox's favor, but 60-40 seems way too much. 55-45 seems so much more accurate. If you're talking about stages with low ceilings like BF or Halberd then I wouldn't know because both character have their flaws on the stages.

 

[Conviction]

What is suggesting that the ratio is wrong?

Old but answers your stage questions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJB2FZFjvtc (Smashville)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGIyIMqYQU4&feature=related (Smashville and Rainbow Cruise)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI_Odh4bLPc&feature=related (Frigate and Green Greens)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcFOaNzO-H0&feature=related (Pokemon Stadium 2)

 

[Chef Fox]

This just means you have zero experience against Fox. I'm not disagreeing that this MU is in Fox's favor, but 60-40 seems way too much. 55-45 seems so much more accurate. If you're talking about stages with low ceilings like BF or Halberd then I wouldn't know because both character have their flaws on the stages.

1) Bro, I play a Zero Suit Samus main all the time, it's my most well known matchup by far, and I firmly agree with the 60-40 matchup. The fact is that Fox outcamp ZSS, outplays her on the ground, and can avoid the Down Smash lock by simply running/jumping/shielding/jabbing and many other moves. These things kind of drive the matchup in my mind.
2) We can reflect those armor pieces in the beginning, and grab one ourselves if we run up to her quickly and steal one. It's a lot of fun to grab one of those pieces.
3) ZSS has a much better air game, but Fox fastfalls to the ground so fast that Uair strings are very difficult for ZSS, as well as common combos like Up Special spike to Bair/Uair.
4) She also has a blindspot below her in the air where Fox can Uair and Up Smash all he likes.
5) Fox doesn't get gimped. He can avoid ZSS's great ledge game by shine stalling or Illusioning or whatever, just get off the ledge quickly like Fox always does.
The only recovering problem I can see is Fire Fox upwards towards the ledge, but ZSS does not have the ability to send us downward in the air outside of Dair (too risky), Down Special spike (again too risky), and Up Special spike (hard to place and time if the Fox recovers well). So that shouldn't have to happen.
If for some reason you do get hit by the Down Smash on the edge, ZSS will try to either Bair you (A), Side Special you (A), Footstool you (B), Uair you (from underneath, she drops off the ledge to get underneath you) (C), Down Special spike you (D), or use Fair on you (D).
5A) Bair and Side Special are probably her best options, and the hardest for us to survive, so all I can say is DI well.
5B) If she uses Footstool, shine stall first, because she will use Side Special to tether the ledge before you can do anything, and she will keep her invincibility frames until the right moment where your Fire Fox won't hurt her and you die. Shine stalling can hurt her when she tethers, though it's improbable, but it will stall long enough so that you can hurt her with the Fire Fox and recover.
5C) Uair is a less powerful option for her, because it kills at much higher percents, and it won't stage spike, so don't really predict that.
5D) Fair and Down Special spike (almost) never hit Fox, but they do hit other characters, so unless the ZSS knows the matchup, they will try and fail at these two options.
Really just Bair and Side Special are problematic, but as you can see we limit her options a lot.
6) ZSS can get gimped if you are on the ledge and predict a Down Special to Footstool from the ZSS (the ZSS will use her Flip Jump just in range to either attack you with the spike or Footstool you while you are on the ledge - she will only try this if her second jump has been used, that's how you predict it). Just drop from the ledge, jump backwards, shine the ZSS, done. 9 times out of 10 the ZSS will go for a Footstool, not a spike, so it should be safe. Plus, it's very quick and surprising, I've done it a few times and it is very chill.
If you are facing a bad ZSS, just hang onto the ledge and wait for that kick to come out of Down Special, then roll back onto the ledge to avoid the hit. If their second jump is gone, they can't recover. However, it's probably smart to get up from the ledge to avoid the hit, then pivot drop back on immediatley.
Beware of ZSS's invincibility frames from her Flip Jump, and learn when to hit her with the shine (peak of the jump and after I think). There is a small point where her kick cannot come out yet and she has no invincibility frames, so if you're really good aim for that point and she is done for. Gimped.
Don't use other moves to gimp her in the same way, Bair for example seems like a good idea but it's start up is to slow, and she will spike you.
7) To set up for the gimp I just said above, use Down Smash after like a Dair or maybe a Nair if you are very conscious of her percents, and you buffer the Dsmash and all of the tricks etc. Unless she is a god a DI (in which case you have an entirely different set of problems) the Dair will set up for a Dsmash and the Dsmash will send her horizontally and she will jump first and Down Special after, hoping to make it with the Footstool, but no, Fox is better than her, and he will gimp her. It's sort of an easy way to get an early kill on her that's also not-so-easily-predicted and fast.

TL;DR version - ZSS can't use her air game, and she loses to Fox on the ground. She can get gimped, we can't, and we limit her options if you play smart.
I really do believe this matchup is 60:40, and so does the ZSS I play (some days he claims it's 70:30 lol) and I hope my discussion about it has persuaded you.

 

[Conviction]

That looks painful to read, maybe you should organize the paragraphs better.

 

[Chef Fox]

I know sorry, I'm really bad at it, I'll try to edit it a little.

Edit: Okay, is it readable now?

 

[Conviction]

Yeah it's better.