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The consensus seems to be that it's even. Some people think performance in neutral is more important will give it to Mewtwo, while those who think survivability is where it's at give Bowser the edge. In the end it really does just come down to whoever makes fewer mistakes.
There's a time and place for everything. Making a decision on whether one character is better than another just from one perspective, such as looking at simple pros and cons, don't you think that's a little narrow-minded? You could be like "Yeah, mewtwo has better recovery, he runs faster, and he has shadow ball so bowser isnt good" but seriously that doesn't contribute to the conversation more than beating a dead horse. There's much more to it than just that. I compared moves simply to open people up to every single detail about the characters, since the moves we use are literally the bare basic functions of a fighting game. Obviously if I compare one move to another move it might not ever actually happen, but thats not what I mean when I compare the moves, I used the comparison for simply practicality, no matter what opponent is using what.
If there's any platforms on the stage, we have a mix up for our landing. We like FD, but we're not married to playing on this stage if the MU says to play somewhere else. Every stage has ledges that will likely be nearby, and we're pretty safe there. Mewtwo can't cover several ledge options with a single move like we can, and we have an aggressive means of getting up via double jump Side B, which is lagless and cuts through the shield of those who want to wait and see what we do. And remember, we have a lagless landing with an aerial command grab so you don't have room to mixup your pressure when covering our landing after confusion, only go aggressive before we land. If I feel too pressured by a running Usmash or Dash attack before landing, I'll use Dair to outprioritize the threat and punish. Nothing I do is guaranteed, but nothing Mewtwo can do is guaranteed either.
It's the Jab - Mewtwo, Recovery - Mewtwo business that's useless. Of course you think these moves and aspects of the character are better on you, you're playing Mewtwo. You know everything about what Mewtwo's jab leads into, while I know everything Bowser's jab leads into. It's just opinions of what's better, and the ratings have no bearing on the matchup. We don't beat Sheik because our Smash attacks or specials are objectively better than hers, that would be a ridiculous way of looking at things. Move analysis is better when you pick out attacks that have an impact. Mewtwo's Shadow Ball is good because: it gives him a way to fight or stall without risking unfavorable trades. Mewtwo's Dtilt is good because: it's a noncommital poke that leads into more attacks and won't be punished easily. Bowser's jab is good because: the same reasons that Mewtwo's Dtilt is good, so watch out for that. These are the moves you want to talk about when not getting hit is such a big part of the Matchup.
That's pretty much how I feel about this match-up. Mewtwo may have the higher mobility and less laggy moves, but Bowser has the brute force that strikes fear for a lot of lightweight fighters. Whoever wins comes down to who makes the least amount of mistakes with their battle plan.
Im LoF Blue and i have used mewtwo against a player named tsb chaos bowser main. The match up is nontheless terrifying. But mewtwo has a easy time keeping boswer out but if bowser gets a hold of mewtwo expect that if you are over 60% its a stock gone. But luckily mewtwo after a certain % can avoid bowsers up throw upair. Shadowball is your friend dtilt is too. Play safe and patience is rewarded handsomely. I have many videos on my mewtwo bowser matchup and many others on YouTube. If you like there is many already posted in the vs. Recorder thread
Yea. I've heard of you. I personally think you're one of the best Mewtwo players. So you think the MU is even?
It is in mewtwos favor. I look at it just the same as playing against a ganon. If you are careless you get k.o'ed
Yea. That's the same way I see this MU. Bowser has the tools to mess Mewtwo up real good, but if both players are playing safe Mewtwo definitely wins.
If people want to request what to do next, I guess make your voices heard in the General Match Up thread. Mewtwo vs. any heavy weight is a lot of fun.We haven't had this much activity in MU discussion for ages, so over 40 responses is a nice surprise. Don't let this trend end too soon!
Bowser likes being under platforms. Lots of moves can cleave the entire space that a target may be standing or rolling, without leaving us open for punish or trades. And our Uthrow forces tumble states just above Battlefield platform height at 50-65%. And by already being under the platform for a tech chase, it's a good situation that we're still labbing. The smaller size of battlefield also gives the opponent less room to run and space. But we don't like platforms for the top MUs like ZSS. She can land on platforms to extend Uair strings and get the extra height needed for a kill. Nowadays our stages of choice are just Smashville and FD. It only ever goes wrong for us during projectile spam fights like villager or Fox. There's only one linear direction of approach on flat stages, and that's into their zone. Not ideal.
Zapp Branniglenn
Thanks for moving this discussion back towards reality a bit. The fanboyism going on in this thread really makes me cringe.
Lol i was soooooo shocked at my sd. Hahaha i was going for a platform confusion
Where does he say that it's his worst? He just thinks it's a disadvantage, which judging by his justifications proves my earlier statement that if you're one of the guys who favours survivability, then of course Bowser will seem to have the edge.
He mentioned DK, saying DK was M2's worst MU, and then supposes that Bowser may be even worse.
I think ZSS and Fox are both tough for Mewtwo, and for somewhat different reasons. Those two for most advantage over Mewtwo sound about right.
It was undoubtedly Fox when he had his infinite, and probably still is.
Don't want to derail too much, but basically imagine if ZSS had more weight, longer range, and a better grab.
I still think most of your MU opinions are wrong. I'm also not sure how you come to your conclusions on a MU but maybe I'll come to understand your thought process one of these days.
Bowser has the same intangibility that DK does. And unlike DK, our jab is intangible, and leads into a dash grab, which you seem to have forgotten. Our least committal poke leads into what is essentially a cargo throw.
I think you're missing the godlike recovery
Who's? Mewtwo? DK? Bowser's is kind of like DK, I suppose. Our hitbox comes out 2 frames later and isn't as disjointed. Plus he can go over the ledge with little chance for punish which is huge. But we have a mashing mechanism that lets us travel about twice the height of DK's. Add a higher double jump than what he has, and we're not as susceptible to gimps. His Up B is better than ours in the air, but we have the better literal recovery distance and ground use on ours. But if you asked me what the big difference was between DK and Bowser, I would still say Bowser's defensive zoning playstyle, thanks to the OoS game. DK is more aggressive because he has no means of long range combat, and is pretty helpless when dealing with shield pressure from Sheik, Fox, etc. It's the biggest picture difference I can think of, since we share range, damage output, KO percents, and punish game.
Taken from kurkganehammer
Oh. That's fine, I guess. I can't really imagine a "ha ha! We have more limb intangibility frames than you!" from a DK main. Both characters have moves that act like swords when active. The only move of ours where we're in danger of getting hit before we're intangible is swipe 1 of Dtilt and Fsmash as far as I know. I know for certain Jab and Ftilt don't have this issue at all. You can check it by getting behind a Lucario with high aura in training mode and having him charge aura sphere as you attack through it.
No dk main but I believe that some is good and nore is better.
i was talking about mewtwo's recovery but this is actually really helpful so thanks anyways lol
!Blue!
and TSB Chaos:
Man, is it me or does every single commentator always reference Mewtwo's weight when he's in a match, more than any other character in the game? We all know he's light. I'm sick of hearing that in almost every streamed match/set from commentators. Think of other things to say for once.Game 5 of this week's Break Weekly was a Mewtwo vs. Bowser between
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvPOOGvDaok#t=12m23s
We can see their strengths and weaknesses against each other play out a lot more in practice.
