Match-Up Between Bowser and Samus

[Crystanium]

Greetings, Bowser boards. I, Dryn, come again to ask for your thoughts on the match-up between Bowser and Samus. However, not only do I ask for your thoughts and opinions based off of your experience against Samus, but I am also requesting that we not only speak of the match-up in theory, but also in practicality. That is why I am asking that those of you who main Bowser, who have been using Bowser since the release of SSBB, take up several matches with me.

Any of you who wish to participate in practice, you needn't tell me your Brawl Friend Code, unless your FC is not present at the right. That is to say, where I can see the Join Date, Location, Brawl FC, and Posts. If your FC is not present, I ask that you write it in your post, please. To the moderators, I ask that you do not lock this thread, as this is not intended to see who is a better player, but simply is the best way to gather information. No moderator in the past locked my thread, so please, don't lock this.

As I said before, I am looking for those who have mained Bowser since the release of SSBB. If you have not used Bowser since the release date in North America, I am asking that you then at least have used Bowser for at least six months. I do not want to gather information from anyone who has had five months or less of experience with Bowser. The reason being is that it is a general concept that in match-up discussions, we are discussing two specific characters, both of whom are "good," in the sense that they know what to do in any situation given.

What I am also looking for is to brawl with anyone who is in North America, preferably West Coast and/or Mid-West. If, however, you do not live in these parts, that is fine as well. Again, it is preferable to gather information from those who live in the West Coast and/or Mid-West, but you don't necessarily have to be in these regions if you wish to participate in the match-up discussion through means of practicality. By practicality, I mean actual gaming experience, as opposed to theoretics, in which case you would be speaking about your experience from previous matches.

One more thing before I finish. Please have fun and enjoy yourselves. Whether I win or lose, or whether you win or lose, please don't become discouraged. Oh, and I am asking that all of you use Bowser only. If you have any alternative characters, don't use them when brawling with me. I want to learn only about Bowser and no one else. Thank you all for your time, and I hope to get feedback from all of you. For those who who haven't used Bowser for six months or since the release date, you are more than welcome to offer information in theory. The same applies to those who have been using Bowser much longer. Thanks again.

 

[Liquid Gen]

I am very willing to participate. PErhaps we can Brawl tomorrow; I have to leave soon as it stands now.

However, I am on the east coast. I suppose we could lag test before hand, but the point remains.

Some time around... 4-5 EST?

Btw, FC: 0516-6947-6051

 

[Crystanium]

I am very willing to participate. PErhaps we can Brawl tomorrow; I have to leave soon as it stands now.

However, I am on the east coast. I suppose we could lag test before hand, but the point remains.

Some time around... 4-5 EST?

Btw, FC: 0516-6947-6051

That'll work, hopefully. I'll be available from 11:00/11:30 AM till 10:00 PM.

 

[Seagull Joe]

bowser can beat samus.samus has low killing potential and on bowser thats a big problem.samus can camp but bowser can get throught missles and blaster.

 

[Liquid Gen]

I suspect you were speaking in EST terms, in which case, sounds good to me.

Also turkey, please try to actually help the matchup; what you just gave was one-sided and horribly misleading rubbish.

 

[MrEh]

Zair>Bowser.

Not kidding.

 

[Low Rider1717]

Zair ***** Boozer so hard
plus those aerials are pretty beefy, plus having a spike helps Samus alot considering Bowsers recover options arnt so great

 

[MrEh]

Zair ***** Boozer so hard
plus those aerials are pretty beefy, plus having a spike helps Samus alot considering Bowsers recover options arnt so great

The spike isn't the issue.

It's the wall of projectiles and the Zair.

 

[Crystanium]

I suspect you were speaking in EST terms, in which case, sounds good to me.

Also turkey, please try to actually help the matchup; what you just gave was one-sided and horribly misleading rubbish.

You live East Coast, I live in West. I was saying that I would be available at 11:00/11:30 AM. That would be 2:00/2:30 on your clock.

 

[B!squick]

Now, I have played Brawl and Bowser since it was released... but not exstentively/continuously. But regardless, my controler is a little wonky (all three of them). I could just learn how to play without the GC controler... :/

In regards to the match up, projectiles and Zair = Bowser buttsecks as said. Probably the only thing saving it from being horribly lop sided is Samus's slow aerial and general speed. Short of Norfair it should be a breeze for you, lol.

 

[Bufu_Man]

zair also goes thru the stage underground. ( well at least on smashville) i was in shocked when i saw that happened... lol not sure how he did it but its possible. the player's tag was WES, met him in some tourney, i forgot where.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

Yeah man all Samus has to do is jump and press Z as much as she can and Bowser can do nothing except bend over and take it like a man. It's an unwinnable matchup. 90-10 or 95-5 for sure.

I mean, yeah, Bowser lives up to ridiculous percents thanks to Samus' complete lack of KO moves, and yeah, Samus won't be living as long as normal because of Bowser's KO potential, and yeah, Bowser can ground release Samus into a Bowser Bomb, but those really don't mean anything because Samus' zair makes all of these points moot. It's just way too unpredictable, not to mention the facts that it does like 16% per hit and KOs characters at 90-100%.

If only there was some way to shield attacks without having shield stun. Like some sort of perfect-shielding. Then there just might be some way to get through the completely impenetrable fortress that is Samus' zair.

 

[Liquid Gen]

zair also goes thru the stage underground. ( well at least on smashville) i was in shocked when i saw that happened... lol not sure how he did it but its possible. the player's tag was WES, met him in some tourney, i forgot where.

LOL DUDE.

I believe thats Shadowth7. I play him all the time, we go even lul.

 

[Bowser King]

Yeah man all Samus has to do is jump and press Z as much as she can and Bowser can do nothing except bend over and take it like a man. It's an unwinnable matchup. 90-10 or 95-5 for sure.

I mean, yeah, Bowser lives up to ridiculous percents thanks to Samus' complete lack of KO moves, and yeah, Samus won't be living as long as normal because of Bowser's KO potential, and yeah, Bowser can ground release Samus into a Bowser Bomb, but those really don't mean anything because Samus' zair makes all of these points moot. It's just way too unpredictable, not to mention the facts that it does like 16% per hit and KOs characters at 90-100%.

If only there was some way to shield attacks without having shield stun. Like some sort of perfect-shielding. Then there just might be some way to get through the completely impenetrable fortress that is Samus' zair.

lulz

That made me laugh so hard.

-Bowser King

 

[Blistering Speed]

I really hate the phrase 'wall of projectiles' it's such a gross exaggeration, especially in Brawl.

Charge shot: Easily shielded and it has to be charged to be even noteworthy.
Missiles: Jab or Shield.

You should be taking less then 5% damage going across the whole of FD from Samus' 'projectile wall' and even that percent is from an easily correctable mistake. Then you get close and realise you're playing against possible the worst close combat character in the game.

 

[Seagull Joe]

its not like u just get hit with the zair a billion times unless u dont know what a shield is.

 

[B!squick]

:/ Are all these comments directed at me? I'm feeling singled out. x_x

 

[Bowser King]

I agree. A lot of the times I hear people say "He gets owned by X chars projectiles". Which is in fact not true. I agree projectiles play a big part (forces bowser to approch) but other then that I really don't think there's that many projectiles (other then oli's pikmin but those aren't even considered projectiles) that you can't get around.

Theroychrafting wise, most projectiles are considered amazing. How much damage are you actually going to take going from one end of FD to the other if you play smart? Also, it's bowser. He lives to a crazy amount and on a character like samus, that definitely comes in handy.

Hit and run also rarely works and bowser isn't THAT slow. His dash is actually a decent speed for a heavy weight and bowser doesn't have trouble getting in the air (Infinite second jump ect.).

I'm not saying projectiles don't play a part in the match-up. Saying they didn't would be stupid. Bowser has some problems with them but it isn't something that you can get around.

-Bowser King

 

[Crystanium]

Well, I am here. I anyone still wishes to participate by playing against me, I'll be more than happy to brawl. Liquid Gen, if you're here now, let's play.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

I just think it's pretty ridiculous how people actually think Samus has a 70-30 or 80-20 advantage on Bowser because "lol zair". Like, if you imagine the matchup between Bowser and a zairless Samus, it would be a neutral matchup. Samus' zair does not single-handedly turn the matchup into an extreme advantage.

 

[Crystanium]

I just think it's pretty ridiculous how people actually think Samus has a 70-30 or 80-20 advantage on Bowser because "lol zair". Like, if you imagine the matchup between Bowser and a zairless Samus, it would be a neutral matchup. Samus' zair does not single-handedly turn the matchup into an extreme advantage.

I think that spacing is one of the factors, since Bowser only has one projectile attack, and Samus doesn't need to get near Bowser to inflict damage on him. Like many like to say, Bowser can shield Samus' z-air or hit her Homing and Super Missiles. This is why I am taking the match-up discussion to more than just theory. I am willing to brawl with anyone in the Bowser boards, just as long as you have used Bowser since the release date or used him for at least six months.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

So does Samus also have a 70-30 or 80-20 advantage on Captain Falcon, Donkey Kong, Ganondorf, G&W, Ike, Jigglypuff, Kirby, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Meta Knight, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Sonic, Wario, and Zelda? None of those characters have reliable projectiles for camping, and Samus doesn't need to get near any of the m to attack them with zair.

And on that note, does that mean Link has 70-30 or 80-20 advantages on all of these characters as well?

I'd be willing to wifi brawl in like 30 mins but I don't really think it will prove much :s Samus' projectiles are much harder to deal with online, and Bowser is a lot like Ike on wifi (and everyone knows Ike is top tier on wifi). I need to shower and then fold a bunch of laundry, but once I'm done do you want me to PM you if Smashboards stills shows you as online?

 

[Crystanium]

So does Samus also have a 70-30 or 80-20 advantage on Captain Falcon, Donkey Kong, Ganondorf, G&W, Ike, Jigglypuff, Kirby, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Meta Knight, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Sonic, Wario, and Zelda? None of those characters have reliable projectiles for camping, and Samus doesn't need to get near any of the m to attack them with zair.

60-40, Samus' favor in regard to Captain Falcon. 80-20 in regard to Ganondorf. 40-60 or maybe 35-65 in regard to Mr. Game & Watch. There are other things to take into consideration. These other characters move faster than Bowser. Marth can excel in spacing, since that's really his specialty. Please don't take what I say out of context. Some of these other characters you mention aren't even that large. Sonic is quick, so it may be a bit more difficult to hit. Wario has some outrageous air- and spot-dodging.

And on that note, does that mean Link has 70-30 or 80-20 advantages on all of these characters as well?

I can't speak for Link, since I don't use Link. You're asking the wrong person.

I'd be willing to wifi brawl in like 30 mins but I don't really think it will prove much :s Samus' projectiles are much harder to deal with online, and Bowser is a lot like Ike on wifi (and everyone knows Ike is top tier on wifi). I need to shower and then fold a bunch of laundry, but once I'm done do you want me to PM you if Smashboards stills shows you as online?

You don't think it'd prove much? Well, it's better than saying, "X can do this," or "Y wouldn't be able to do anything about that." Like I said, all I am doing is requesting to play Bowser mains here, since it'd be useful to gather information. I know that we're going to be on Wi-Fi, and Wi-Fi is garbage. Still, it sure beats the heck out of traveling just to play several matches. As I said before, win or lose, it does not matter, and please have fun.

I'll need your FC if you plan on brawling. And let's see if your Bowser will do good. I remember brawling with someone a long while back. His Bowser was the best I had played!

 

[Liquid Gen]

Posted on your profile Dryn.

Also, I don't understand hating on other people's characters... then again, it is a form of trash talk, I suppose, and lulz, I have never trash talked ever. xD

 

[Blistering Speed]

Phiddlesticks, now you're being unreasonable, though I do see his point even if he's a bit overzealous in stating it. Kudos to Dryn for being willing to take this past theory however, he's correct in that matchup debates often just turn into theory craft hypothesis bull****.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

I was absolutely being unreasonable, but I was just showing how, "...since Bowser only has one projectile attack, and Samus doesn't need to get near Bowser to inflict damage on him." can be applied to a lot of characters and isn't enough of an advantage to label the matchup as 70-30 or higher.

My comment about Link was just because he also has a long ranged zair. I was just kidding

I meant I didn't think it would prove much because the matchup is played so much differently online (it's more of a Lagowser vs Lagamus matchup rather than Bowser vs Samus). It's still definitely better than the theorybrawl hypothetical discussion though for sure.

I just added my Brawl code to my info stuff.

 

[Liquid Gen]

Like I said Dryn, I had to go cause my mom is being *****y.

And for the rest of you, the matchup is not as easy as you may think it to be.

 

[Crystanium]

I was absolutely being unreasonable, but I was just showing how, "...since Bowser only has one projectile attack, and Samus doesn't need to get near Bowser to inflict damage on him." can be applied to a lot of characters and isn't enough of an advantage to label the matchup as 70-30 or higher.

My comment about Link was just because he also has a long ranged zair. I was just kidding

I meant I didn't think it would prove much because the matchup is played so much differently online (it's more of a Lagowser vs Lagamus matchup rather than Bowser vs Samus). It's still definitely better than the theorybrawl hypothetical discussion though for sure.

I just added my Brawl code to my info stuff.

My apologies for exaggerating that.

I just got finished playing against Liquid Gen. I was hoping to do one more match, but I see Liquid Gen had to leave for a reason. I won't mind brawling with you again, Liquid Gen. You were amazing! At first when we were on Smashville, when I hit you out, I was thinking, "There's got to be something more than this." Then you proceeded to ****. I had a lot of fun getting in some experience. I have to say that you were definitely worth the time! Wonderful Up+B OoS, by the way. You hit me more than I can remember.

Phiddlesticks, if you're available to brawl, I won't mind brawling with you. Let's play five matches.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

Sure, I just added your code. I'll host a room, so go ahead and join whenever you're ready

 

[Crystanium]

Sure, I just added your code. I'll host a room, so go ahead and join whenever you're ready

I'll be on shortly. By that I mean very, very soon. Just let me set up my Wii again.

 

[MrEh]

Saumus's Zair is far scarier then her projectiles.

Seriously.

 

[Liquid Gen]

^ It is. Very true. However, you can work your way around it; that's how you play against Samus, lol. But still.. It does **** face.

With that in mind, I need someone to record me and Dryn's matches; anyone interested? xD

 

[Phiddlesticks]

I have to say, Dryn, those were probably the 5 least laggiest wifi brawls I've ever had Good games, man, it was much more fun than I expected.

Also, did you notice in our 5 games we played on every neutral map once? I thought that was weird considering I was picking random stage.

 

[Liquid Gen]

The contents of this post are nullified by Up B OOS. Carry on.

 

[Crystanium]

I have to say, Dryn, those were probably the 5 least laggiest wifi brawls I've ever had Good games, man, it was much more fun than I expected.

Also, did you notice in our 5 games we played on every neutral map once? I thought that was weird considering I was picking random stage.

The second match was fail. Haha! When you Bowsercided me, I was surprised that you got off just in time before actually falling out of the Blast Zone! I'd have to say that I felt Liquid Gen to be a bit tougher, but nevertheless, you put up a good fight with Bowser. I was expecting to win the first match on Yoshi's Island, but I guess I underestimated you a bit there.

As for our matches being on neutral stages, I really wasn't paying attention. I was hoping that we'd play on Pokémon Stadium 1 for our fifth match, but instead got Lylat Cruise. I did horrible there. I don't know what happened there when I was on my second stock. What I think is funny is that like Liquid Gen, you beat me twice on our first two matches, and then I won on the third and the fourth. Anyway, thank you for participating in this, Phiddlesticks. I appreciate it.

And darn Up+B OoS!

Lol, if you don't mind me asking, the results are?

It was 2-3. Phiddlesticks won the most matches. The second one was horrible, though. He Bowsercided me twice, and in such a short time. Battlefield failed me there!

If anyone is up for playing me, you're more than welcome. Remember, just have fun and don't get discouraged! They're friendlies, after all.

Liquid Gen and Phiddlesticks, I will be noting your names in my match-up thread in the Samus boards. This way I can show whom I have brawled with for the Bowser match-up discussion. Again, thanks to both of you for participating. I am very grateful.

 

[A2ZOMG]

As for the Z-air and projectiles, powershield them. I'm pretty sure you can do that.

 

[Crystanium]

In my last thread that I created, it seemed that the consensus was that the match-up between Samus and Bowser was 70-30. Is there any disagreement in this? Some of the Samus mains in the Samus boards might think 70-30 is accurate, so I guess it'd be a good idea to ask for their input on this as well. I know that Phiddlesticks doesn't think this should be the case. If not 70-30, maybe 65-35?

 

[Liquid Gen]

If not 60-40, yeah, 65-35. Living to 220% isn't cool, bro.

lulz

 

[Phiddlesticks]

As for the Z-air and projectiles, powershield them. I'm pretty sure you can do that.

Yeah, you can. You should check out this thread for a list of which moves can be powershielded consistently. ^_^

I honestly think the matchup isn't any higher than 60-40 Samus' advantage, but whatever. List it as 65-35 or 70-30 if you want, I've realized there's no point trying to argue it because it honestly isn't going to affect my character choice against Samus at all.

 

[Crystanium]

I honestly think the matchup isn't any higher than 60-40 Samus' advantage, but whatever. List it as 65-35 or 70-30 if you want, I've realized there's no point trying to argue it because it honestly isn't going to affect my character choice against Samus at all.

Well, tha_carter thinks it should be 55-45, Samus' favor. Liquid Gen thinks it should be 60-40. I know you may not think there is any reason for arguing about it, but I am only doing this so that both the Bowser board and the Samus board can have a general consensus when it comes to the match-up ratio. My opinion on the match-up ratio changed after brawling with you two.