Mastering Mewtwo's Movement.

[GeZ]

I kind of agree with both sides of this argument. It's got more utility than tech chasing and hard reads, but it's not something to use a lot. You'll get hit repeatedly by any competent player if you teleport in too often because it's vulnerable. It's a great tool but you've got to have a good grasp of what your opponent is thinking to use it because if they see it coming it can land them a kill easily.

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

I kind of agree with both sides of this argument. It's got more utility than tech chasing and hard reads, but it's not something to use a lot. You'll get hit repeatedly by any competent player if you teleport in too often because it's vulnerable. It's a great tool but you've got to have a good grasp of what your opponent is thinking to use it because if they see it coming it can land them a kill easily.

That's what I've been trying to say. Just because I've been saying it's good to use, doesn't mean I'm claiming it to be "Mewtwo's Shine"....

 

[McNinja]

So you think that teleport should be used more in melee too, since you use it mostly for positioning?

 

[Phan7om]

Amazing guide dude!

What are your thoughts on Jab Cancelling with M2?
In Particularly~
JC > Grab
JC > Confusion
JC > HC Fair
JC > Disable

 

[ss118]

Jab cancelling, as in just pressing down afterwards?

Training mode tells me it combos into dtilt at a lot of percentages, which is significant considering how well that leads into mewtwo's entire game atm(uair then move around for more follow-ups).

 

[~Frozen~]

A fun trick I've been utilizing somewhat with Mewtwo is his ability to Teleport onto a platform with no landlag on BF and FoD. (Possibly YS as well, but I can't test that right now.)

For BF, teleporting upwards from the ground onto the top platform accomplishes this. On FoD and possibly YS, you have to teleport at a 45 degree angle to land on the platform. There's plenty of chasing opportunities that can stem from this (Grab and Utilt being the ones I most commonly use afterwards, depending on the situation).

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

So you think that teleport should be used more in melee too, since you use it mostly for positioning?

Does teleport retain the same properties in Melee as it does in PM? Are the metagames of both games the exact same? You keep making these weak comparisons and asking me to elaborate on them. Please stop this. And of course I don't. As a matter of fact I would tell you not to use Mewtwo at all. Let alone teleport....

Amazing guide dude!

What are your thoughts on Jab Cancelling with M2?
In Particularly~
JC > Grab
JC > Confusion
JC > HC Fair
JC > Disable

Thanks. All of those are great. I jab cancel with Mewtwo alot, maybe too much actually. You've listed the main ones I use. You probably already know Jab > Dtilt as well. Jabbing is great it sets you up for so many combos and it's a fairly quick way to build damage. Sorry I would go more in depth but kinda busy atm.

And yeah Froz, I'm not sure about FoD or YS. But Mewtwo's movement on BF is crazy good, you can do lagless teleports almost anywhere. I haven't experimented with it enough myself, but I'm sure you can give me some interesting pointers to drop in the guide.

 

[Shadow Huan]

lol, Teleport.

if the people you play with are not at least sometimes hitting you out of attempted Teleports then they need to step up their games and stop being afraid of Mewtwo. 8 frames of startup would be bonkers in a traditional fighting game, but this is smash. there are characters with moves that are twice as fast as that (Fox's upsmash is faster, most of Sheik's moveset is faster, Ganondorf's upair is faster, most nairs are faster and stay out long enough to make timing a non issue... ect)

bad usage of the move? I never got to be amazing at Melee but after 4 years of using the character against tournament players I know the difference between a good Teleport and a bad one, and if you're playing against someone who isn't clueless against Mewtwo they will tag you for what should have been a safe Teleport every now and then. if it's happening all the time then you certainly need to tighten up your timing, but don't be surprised at some point if you see the animation start, see the flash start around Mewtwo, then get kicked in the face.

actually there's an example of it in a tournament video with Iori in it. Fox's first kill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?rl=yes&v=dtWTaBFEQvk&client=mv-google&guid=&gl=US&hl=en

all this rant aside we do seem to agree that smart usage of the move is key, but my point is even then it is not a get out free card. it is just not as super safe as you seem to think it is, despite actually being the safest of it's type of move in the game.

moving on, anyone else here find that Mewtwo's Ken Combo is too DI dependant to be practical? also Hover into Dair is an amazing addition to Mewtwo's edgeguarding arsenal.

 

[MetaKnight0]

moving on, anyone else here find that Mewtwo's Ken Combo is too DI dependant to be practical? also Hover into Dair is an amazing addition to Mewtwo's edgeguarding arsenal.

i assume you're talking about fastfallers

i find mewtwo's ken combo way easier in pm for a number of reasons

utilt being a ****ing giant hitbox
uair increased range means the sourspot occurs a bit further out and thus you can throw it earlier to get some juggles you can also do the sweetspot pretty early in a combo to get a nice combo going
hover lets you cancel horizontal momentum on any air meaning uthrow > dash > jump > fair can't be DI'd towards mewtwo to make the combo a lot harder. you just need to do uthrow > dash > jump > hover > fair and then hover down and towards the DI direction
confusion being an actually legit relaunch instead of meatspin into techchase

riskier **** to do would be fulljump nair fastfall near the end of the move so the last hitbox doesnt hit, then djc fair (yes djc, hover doesnt have that initial horizontal momentum) or confusion or shadowball charge etc.

the best combos would still be the tried tested and true spam fair until high damage and then add on teleport fair or something else like dair or uair or shadowball or even teleport into hover into theorycraft

 

[AstraEDM]

I'm finding that a neutral game based around short hop baby shadowballs is pretty damn effective against certain characters. Once you train them to expect it you can mix in stuff like RAR disable, DJC bair and all kinds of crazy stuff. I'm finding one of mewtwo's strongest points is his ability to radically change his momentum in either horizontal direction, and going from zoning with shadowball to combos seamlessly.

 

[Deleted member]

Alright...I have a confession to make.

I could never wavedash. I understood how it was done, but I used to play Melee all the time and just never could get the grasp of it. My character would always end up air-dodging and making awkward landings and leaving me wide open to attack. I felt frustrated and like I was getting nowhere...

...until today, when I tried it with Mewtwo in Project M. Suddenly, I was consistently wavedashing! Scooting along the stage consistently and without error. It's all so easy now! You have NO idea how excited I am today over the simple fact that I managed to master this tech skill with this character. Now if I can learn it with a few others that I play (Roy, Wolf), I think I'll be set.

Still gotta get down dash dancing, though.

 

[GeZ]

Alright...I have a confession to make.

I could never wavedash. I understood how it was done, but I used to play Melee all the time and just never could get the grasp of it. My character would always end up air-dodging and making awkward landings and leaving me wide open to attack. I felt frustrated and like I was getting nowhere...

...until today, when I tried it with Mewtwo in Project M. Suddenly, I was consistently wavedashing! Scooting along the stage consistently and without error. It's all so easy now! You have NO idea how excited I am today over the simple fact that I managed to master this tech skill with this character. Now if I can learn it with a few others that I play (Roy, Wolf), I think I'll be set.

Still gotta get down dash dancing, though.

I really, really, really don't mean this in a dickish way, and am just legitimately curious as to how you have north of five thousand posts on Smashboards without being able to WD, or DD.

 

[Deleted member]

I really, really, really don't mean this in a ****ish way, and am just legitimately curious as to how you have north of five thousand posts on Smashboards without being able to WD, or DD.

Because I have played MUCH more Brawl than Melee, and started posting here when I got into Brawl competitively.

Also, you should note that someone's post count has absolutely nothing to do with their actual skill in the game. It's silly to make that assumption.

 

[GeZ]

Because I have played MUCH more Brawl than Melee, and started posting here when I got into Brawl competitively.

Also, you should note that someone's post count has absolutely nothing to do with their actual skill in the game. It's silly to make that assumption.

I never assumed that post count and skill were related, as a lot of the more well worded players here have sub one thousand posts, I was just confused as to how you could fill five thousand posts without learning those core mechanics. But I guess those aren't in Brawl so that makes sense. How's P:M treating ya? Enjoying true combo's and not falling on your ass based off of RNG? It's pretty dang good tell ya what.

 

[Deleted member]

While I may know how the mechanics are done, I never really have laid down time into learning them. I normally would start playing, try it a few times and then just go back to goofing around. For some reason, it was just natural with P:M.

With that said, P:M is a real refresher. Brawl grew really stale for me over time, and it's not just based off of what you said. Tripping is very stupid, but going to every tournament to see that it's pretty much a requirement to secondary, or main Meta Knight to win, is just a joke. I respected the BBR's decision to ban him for a period of time, but after they backpedaled on that decision, the game grew so stale in the state of Ohio that the Brawl scene here is pretty much dead.

Project M has spurred a revival that I haven't seen since Brawl's release, and it's fantastic. The game feels balanced and the characters unique, but definitely viable. It's a learning curve for me, certainly, but at least I'm having fun playing it.

 

[JayMan-X]

Just a tip for OP,

"Moonwalking:
How's it done? By inputting a QCB (Quarter Circle Back) Mewtwo will appear to dash forward but his momentum will shift in the other direction, in a sliding manner."

Its more like a HCB (Half Circle Back), because you have to dash forward first... then move to the opposite direction you dashed in, Without going over neutral.
Just pointing this out in case of confusion.

 

[GeZ]

Just a tip for OP,
"Moonwalking:
How's it done? By inputting a QCB (Quarter Circle Back) Mewtwo will appear to dash forward but his momentum will shift in the other direction, in a sliding manner."

Its more like a HCB (Half Circle Back), because you have to dash forward first... then move to the opposite direction you dashed in, Without going over neutral.
Just pointing this out in case of confusion.

Both of those methods aren't optimal for Moonwalking as the distance a character goes when Moonwalking is dictated by how fast the control stick goes from front to back. To do it at it's fastest, while avoiding just Dash Dancing, you want to press forward on the control stick, then immediately flick it back and slightly down.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Discovered a new technique for Mewtwo.

If you use Confusion in the air to try to grab someone on the ground (lets say that they are shielding and you wish to grab them out of it), this will generally fail, as Mewtwo's Confusion pops him up in the air a bit.

However, there is a way to remedy this. If you jump into the air, hover for a split second and then immediately use Confusion after canceling the hover, Mewtwo will fall towards the ground while using Confusion instead of the move popping him slightly into the air.

This allows him to use his aerial Confusion in a similar manner to Wario's aerial Chomp, Lucario's aerial Force Palm, or Bowser's aerial Koopa Claw.

The technical term for this can be called "HCC", or Hover-Canceled Confusion.

 

[Jyro]

Dunno if this is too obvious, but if you perform shadow ball at the end of M2s second jump it gives him a boost. good for recovering, edgeguarding.

 

[Youngster Joey]

so i know this might be a noob question... but its about wavedashing. i think i found that if you hold it closer forward or backwards than just at a 45 degree angle that you go farther.. is this a thing or am i just imagining it?

 

[MetaKnight0]

so i know this might be a noob question... but its about wavedashing. i think i found that if you hold it closer forward or backwards than just at a 45 degree angle that you go farther.. is this a thing or am i just imagining it?

that goes for all characters thats a general thing

 

[Youngster Joey]

that goes for all characters thats a general thing

so it is a thing and im not just going crazy? im coming from brawl so im not much of a melee physics guy. people tell me these weird melee tricks that completely surprised me when i thought i "discovered" them in PM like this

also would you recommend learning this wavedash? or does it just open up more room for error? i wanna be able to move like taj did vs ally in the beginning of his set. that wiggle thing looks so fluent and hardly even like regular inputs!

 

[Subtle One]

Anyone have any specific tips regarding sweet spotting the ledge with teleport? Working on my consistency and advice would be appreciated

 

[Nguz95]

so it is a thing and im not just going crazy? im coming from brawl so im not much of a melee physics guy. people tell me these weird melee tricks that completely surprised me when i thought i "discovered" them in PM like this

also would you recommend learning this wavedash? or does it just open up more room for error? i wanna be able to move like taj did vs ally in the beginning of his set. that wiggle thing looks so fluent and hardly even like regular inputs!

Mewtwo is incredibly sluggish without a wavedash, so I would strongly advise you learn it. However, remember that Taj is using the wd to get a positional advantage on his opponent, and not to cross empty space. When he wavedashes, he is looking to occupy a space that puts his opponent at a disadvantage.

 

[Youngster Joey]

Mewtwo is incredibly sluggish without a wavedash, so I would strongly advise you learn it. However, remember that Taj is using the wd to get a positional advantage on his opponent, and not to cross empty space. When he wavedashes, he is looking to occupy a space that puts his opponent at a disadvantage.

im not talking about plain old wavedashing. im asking if its worth extending it by holding the control stick more forward than at the regular 45 degree angle

 

[MetaKnight0]

im not talking about plain old wavedashing. im asking if its worth extending it by holding the control stick more forward than at the regular 45 degree angle

yes

 

[GeZ]

To Jellybeanman, that ^^^ because that is just better wavedashing. It's not a different tech rather than an improvement upon an existing one, so that is always preferable.

 

[JayMan-X]

Both of those methods aren't optimal for Moonwalking as the distance a character goes when Moonwalking is dictated by how fast the control stick goes from front to back. To do it at it's fastest, while avoiding just Dash Dancing, you want to press forward on the control stick, then immediately flick it back and slightly down.

late reply... but anyways
Optimally yes... you don't want to go all the way down on the control stick because you want to get all to back as fast as possible, for the best moonwalk.
I just think it makes more sense to describe it that way to someone who has no idea of how to do a moonwalk... just doing a quarter cirlce isnt really how you do it
Half circle back makes more sense

 

[GeZ]

late reply... but anyways
Optimally yes... you don't want to go all the way down on the control stick because you want to get all to back as fast as possible, for the best moonwalk.
I just think it makes more sense to describe it that way to someone who has no idea of how to do a moonwalk... just doing a quarter cirlce isnt really how you do it
Half circle back makes more sense

But quarter circle is still wrong. You should watch a melee tutorial on Moonwalking. You'll see what I mean by press forward and flick directly to back and slightly down. The reason I'm strict with Moonwalking technique is that for some characters they don't get anything usable out of their moonwalk unless it's performed well. Mewtwo for instance, and Falcon to a greater degree even.

 

[DMG]

You can perform good enough moonwalks with Falcon and Mewtwo with quarter circle. Just requires you to be really fast. It's not "optimal" but is very plausible and feasible. With characters that have lesser moonwalks though, you will want to eventually learn the more optimal method.

 

[SpiderMad]

You can perform good enough moonwalks with Falcon and Mewtwo with quarter circle. Just requires you to be really fast. It's not "optimal" but is very plausible and feasible. With characters that have lesser moonwalks though, you will want to eventually learn the more optimal method.

What's the optimal method

 

[DMG]

GeZ has been saying it the past few posts.

When you quarter circle, you are basically adding the down input. Down input iirc is not necessary for the moonwalk, but most people do it because it's the safest direction after dashing. You can't cross neutral, so left to right or right to left is out of the question. Going up usually means jumping. so that's not ok either. Optimally, you'd want down+away and maybe the small angle inbetween downaway - away

So basically, skipping down input and going directly from dash into down away

 

[tehmarkysparky]

Sorry if this is a noobish question, I've been lurking the forums and this is my first post, but I can't figure out how to float out of holding the ledge with Mewtwo, a few times I used down/back to let go of the ledge and have cancelled into it instantly, but 90% of the time letting go then pressing down and holding jump doesn't put him into float.

 

[Vale]

Mewtwo can't float from the edge if he has already used his double jump. Otherwise just hold down to drop and then jump.

 

[tehmarkysparky]

Mewtwo can't float from the edge if he has already used his double jump. Otherwise just hold down to drop and then jump.

That's what I've been doing and it doesn't work a lot of times I'll keep practicing

EDIT: Ok! I basically figured out what Vale pointed out but I didn't understand what he meant.

Thanks for the post!

 

[blu2grut]

A few movement tips.

There is weird momentum change doing reverse special moves with certain timing. I seem to be able to land it by pressing b then the direction right after. Semi useful.

Be careful when you walk off a ledge and teleport after because you won't have your 2nd jump. You need to do a ground hop first to be able to 2nd jump after teleport.

You can get a good idea if you wave dash with the fastest timing if you don't hear hover or air dodge sounds.

If you hold instead of tap jump when you wave dash/land off a platform/ledge you will hover as soon as you hit the air.

Turn off tap to jump if you burn your 2nd jump when you teleport.

These are useful things I think.

 

[DMG]

The reversal on B moves is well known already. Applies to many/all characters, it's called B Reverse. You input the move first, and quickly change directions. Completely turns your momentum around

 

[SpiderMad]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nYWNayYVLo

 

[210stuna]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?rl=yes&v=dtWTaBFEQvk&client=mv-google&guid=&gl=US&hl=en

R.I.P. headphone users.

I am confirmed alive, because of this.
Thank you ~

 

[AstraEDM]

A few movement tips.

There is weird momentum change doing reverse special moves with certain timing. I seem to be able to land it by pressing b then the direction right after. Semi useful.

Be careful when you walk off a ledge and teleport after because you won't have your 2nd jump. You need to do a ground hop first to be able to 2nd jump after teleport.

You can get a good idea if you wave dash with the fastest timing if you don't hear hover or air dodge sounds.

If you hold instead of tap jump when you wave dash/land off a platform/ledge you will hover as soon as you hit the air.

Turn off tap to jump if you burn your 2nd jump when you teleport.

These are useful things I think.

I think if you have tap jump off you can ground tele off the edge and still keep your jump or hover. I have R mapped to jump so I can tele, hold R through the animation to hover when I get out, and have my hand in a position to do aeriels.